Meet the Fantastic Four
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
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Choppasmith
Member
Great (dare I say fantastic?) News! I figured the main reason they wanted to keep the F4 rights close was the inevitable crossover, but if there are no plans, this makes it all the more likely they'll let it go sooner than later.
X-Men can't figure out what it wants to do with its characters. Quicksilver and Emma Frost both showed up in X-Men Origins: Wolverine and then they reused the characters for Days of Future Past and First Class. Plus they keep going back on their plot points. Mystique and Magneto are getting their powers back and the cure was BS so The Last Stand was almost entirely pointless.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
As convoluted and fucked up as the X-Men in film are BY THEMSELVES, why would anyone be sad because they don't get to infect a Fantastic Four movie that hasn't even been made yet?
I don't get it.
Considering nobody in here trusts anyone employed by Fox to even get Fantastic Four right, why the fuck would you want to jack the degree of difficulty up to eleventy-thousand by mixing in the X-men for a sequel you don't even WANT to happen?
I don't get it.
Considering nobody in here trusts anyone employed by Fox to even get Fantastic Four right, why the fuck would you want to jack the degree of difficulty up to eleventy-thousand by mixing in the X-men for a sequel you don't even WANT to happen?
Schweinehund
Member
That's what I was wondering, if they're going to try to hold that together through adoption or something.
Hopefully they can do a better job than the first and second one, about the only thing I like about F4 is Dr. Doom anyways.
Idris Elba for sue storm plz
Bobby Roberts
Banned
X-Force? that was being kicked around for awhile there.
Will Wolverine was in it, and we all know Wolverine has to be in every movie.
To be fair, X3 undid its own plot points; the retcons weren't made by other movies/directors. Magneto's powers returning and Xavier coming back to life both happened at the end of that movie.
Maybe. Don't know why it'd be kept a secret though since they've announced a few times that they're working on an X-Force film.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I don't think FOX has said they're working on it. People have said Fox might be working on it, but Fox themselves hasn't said anything one way or the other.
Oh the huge manatee
PhoncipleBone
Banned
The xmen are fine being in their own little continuity and universe. It is convoluted enough as it is and has enough characters and stories it can be self sustaining.
As much as I don't trust Fox to do a good FF movie, I am fine with them keeping XMen as their own separate entity.
Choppasmith
Member
I'm hoping they can make a deal "Give us back F4 and we won't ever pester you about X-Men" Because, yeah, X-Men is fine as a separate universe/continuity.
BlackNMild2k1
Member
Give us F4 back and we will co-produce an X-men movie with you to get it back on track... since it seems that B. Singer may be a little pre-occupied with personal matters for the time being.
Marvel could even throw in a time table and basic plot synopsis for the next 3 movies to follow, which would include an X-Spinoff of some sort.
Marvel could even throw in a time table and basic plot synopsis for the next 3 movies to follow, which would include an X-Spinoff of some sort.
Fox doesn't need Singer for the next X-Men movie. They already got Kinberg and Vaughn producing it and the writers from X2 working on the story. If Singers situation gets any worse for him they'll probably just get Matthew Vaughn, Mangold, or hire a new director to handle Apocalypse. Fox isn't letting go of the rights unless the new Fantastic Four movie bombs spectacularly, which is a possibility but I doubt it will happen.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Fox isn't letting go of the rights to EITHER property and this port-begging is ridiculous every time it happens 
The fact FF got a sequel in the first fucking place is shocking
then again Ghost Rider got one so whatever
I'd like NO FF movie at all
We should call this trend Studio-begging.
then again Ghost Rider got one so whatever
Fox isn't letting go of the rights to EITHER property and this port-begging is ridiculous every time it happens
I'd like NO FF movie at all
We should call this trend Studio-begging.
MrCunningham
Member
Invisible script.
Invisible costume.
Well this reboot is off to a glorious start.
Zeyphersan
Banned
I like the idea of X-Men being separate from the MCU, but I wish a studio had it that actually gave a little bit of a shit? Like Fox makes decent to alright movies, but I never got the impressions that they actually care about the X-Men in the long-term. Just long-term enough to never lose the rights.
And clearly they don't give a shit about FF
And clearly they don't give a shit about FF
Choppasmith
Member
Fox isn't letting go of the rights to EITHER property and this port-begging is ridiculous every time it happens
Comparing this to port begging is the only ridiculous thing here. I can understand Spider-Man and X-Men since those properties are being fully utilized by their current owners and are liked by a sizeable group of people. I can see it being an annoying subject that always comes up in these threads. With Fantastic Four it's a huge chunk of the Marvel Universe and would be a huge game changer if Marvel got it back and Fox is doing nothing with it.
A proper video game comparison would be begging for a new Mega Man or Metroid Prime.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Oh, so it's NOT ridiculous because you want it really bad. Okay.
Fantastic Four haven't been a "huge Game Changer" since the 60s. The last time the Fantastic Four changed the game, it turned into Marvel Zombies. That was it."BAYONETTA II SHOULD BE ON THE CONSOLE I LIKE, NOT THE ONE I DON'T LIKE"
That's all this is.
PhoncipleBone
Banned
Oh, so it's NOT ridiculous because you want it really bad. Okay.
Fantastic Four haven't been a "huge Game Changer" since the 60s.
The last time the Fantastic Four changed the game, it turned into Marvel Zombies.
That was it.
I would say the last time they were a game changer was the early 80s when John Byrne took over.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Megalosaro
Banned
How many marvel teams are there?
Xmen
Fantastic Four
Avengers
Guardians of the galaxy?
Marvel = super hero teams?
Xmen
Fantastic Four
Avengers
Guardians of the galaxy?
Marvel = super hero teams?
eh I liked Hickman's run
Nope this is just exactly like port begging, the only difference is that studio-begging isn't a bannable offense in the OT.
But you're absolutely right, the kind of posts or threads that ask for the rights to revert to Marvel are just as annoying as a Mega Man and Metroid Prime thread.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Oh, so it's NOT ridiculous because you want it really bad. Okay.
"BAYONETTA II SHOULD BE ON THE CONSOLE I LIKE, NOT THE ONE I DON'T LIKE"
That's all this is.
Not really a port begging situation. People beg for ports because they don't have access to games that aren't on their platform of choice. Everyone can go see the new Fantastic Four, some people just want it made by a more competent studio.
It's not like port-begging because the rights have reverted on other properties, and even the Fantastic Four might revert if they don't start shooting in a couple of months.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Look, you get what I'm saying though, right? You understand the point of the comparison being made, yeah?
This is port begging because they believe the game can't possibly be as good as it COULD be unless it's made for their console of choice, so all they do is hope (unrealistically as a motherfucker) that some sort of business failing occurs so that there's NO CHOICE but to make the game on the platform they want.
instead of like you know, waiting for the game to come out and see how it plays first.
Regardless - constantly saying "Maybe Marvel will get the rights back" is silly as hell. It's port-begging. People just don't like hearing it compared to that because they don't like the idea that they're engaging in that behavior. Even though they are.
And so far as the "importance" of Fantastic Four goes - it's fucked because even when you press most of the people DOING this film version of "port-begging" they'll admit THEY DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT the Fantastic Four, they care about Doom, and Norrin Radd, and Galactus.
It's more like if Nintendo sold Mario to Sony a decade ago because Nintendo needed the money. Sony has been pumping out shit since then, and people would like to see Nintendo have it back since they made it and might give a fuck.
It is getting a bit ridiculous when just about every Marvel movie thread -- whether it's Marvel Studios or Fox/Sony's efforts -- turns into people complaining about Disney not having the rights to Spider-Man or F4 or X-Men.
Future Foundation
Member
Aaaand we've hit that point of the discussion.
Sure it's stupid but the comparison is pretty bad except for the fact that both things shit up the thread.
TDLink
Member
Most people don't want a Fantastic Four film. They aren't really that great on the superhero totem pole.
People want Marvel to have the property so they can use other aspects tied up in the license like Galactus, Silver Surfer, Annihilus, Super Skrull, etc. Those other properties can help them expand their cosmic universe which they are about to start with Guardians of the Galaxy.
But yeah, no one (or rather, a very small amount of people) gives a shit about the Fantastic Four themselves and seeing a competent F4 film. However, if you're going to do a Fantastic Four film...it really shouldn't be "grounded" and with half of the characters not even sounding like they are the actual characters.
This film sounds like it isn't even really a Fantastic Four film (if it gets made) plus it's tying up all these associated characters apart from the four main ones who Marvel could otherwise use in their other films. That's why people want the property to revert.
The difference is Fantastic Four has a real chance of going back to Marvel (its deadline is only a few months away). Spider-Man and X-Men are never going back. Also, Spider-Man and X-Men both have gotten plenty of films and have plenty more upcoming in the next few years. Both of them are pretty much fine in their own standalone universes. Fantastic Four is not like those properties, and the characters in its license agreement could be used in Marvel's Cinematic Universe.
Gaming side yo'. So, YES.
Everyone knows WHY people want the property to revert to Disney. The problem is every one of these threads devolves into the same complaints. It's not just F4. There are people in the ASM2 threads complaining that Marvel Studios would make a better movie and Sony is simply whoring it out with no care in the world. Go into an X-Men: DoFP thread and you have people complaining about how Marvel Studios would make a true authentic X-Men movie with "real" costumes and badass Cyclops.
There is very little hope this movie will be anything other than complete shit -- especially with all of the issues in getting it off the ground. But the deck is stacked against it from the onset because people are already convinced unless it's Marvel Studios, it's going to be shit and it should revert back.
TDLink
Member
Those statements about Spider-man and X-Men may or may not be true. However, I would say most of the people arguing those things would be different from those arguing for F4 to revert. Primarily because the situations are so different.
F4 may have had a bit more positivity going towards it if this project showed any hope of turning out alright. So far all that has been revealed is that the actors haven't seen a script, the casting is very out of character for the characters, and some of the characters have completely altered back-stories. None of those things are exactly promising. It also somewhat points to a film that isn't even actually heading towards production considering it's supposed to start filming in a few days from now...how likely does that really seem?
A couple of years ago before Daredevil reverted there was a film in development by Joe Carnahan that people were actually interested in. It sounded like a good representation of the character that would lead to a good film. People of course wanted it to revert to Marvel back then too...and FOX ultimately didn't ever enter production on the project and let the rights revert...just like what might happen here with F4. The point is though that had the rights not reverted people were at least happy with where the project was going and there was a sense that a good movie would have come out of it.
That is not the case here at all.
The point Bobby is making is this comes up in EVERY Marvel thread. It doesn't matter the circumstances. There is a contingent of people who want Disney to get the rights back. It was an interesting discussion -- five years ago coming off the heels of Iron Man. It was a somewhat interesting discussion -- two years ago coming off the heels of The Avengers. But it's been beaten to death over and over that people want Disney to get the rights back. Whether it's justified or not, I agree with Bobby that it amounts to port begging.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
People can justify their port-begging through various means, obviously. But there's a couple differences:
1) Daredevil never made enough during its first run to make even one sequel.
2) Fantastic Four, regardless of how lowly it's regarded by almost EVERYONE whose watched it, profited. So did its sequel. Which is why Fox won't let the rights revert. It made them money.
3) It's a superhero property that allows for bigger blockbuster potential than Daredevil did. You can do more things and cover more ground (thematically/physically) with the Four than you can Daredevil.
4) Time literally ran out. That's not necessarily the case here. Carnahan just had a sizzle reel. Trank has a cast. That Mara hasn't seen the script doesn't necessarily mean SHIT. For as much as people love to laud Marvel - Iron Man went into production with about half a script at BEST, if not less. The number of blockbusters that go into production with a rough or first draft isn't small.
But the misplaced faith in a corporation to have any interests but financial ones first and foremost is what makes this whole "JUST LET THE RIGHTS REVERT" seem so silly. Like Marvel is somehow more altruistic when it comes to the movies, when their interests are essentially the same as ANY OTHER STUDIOS when it comes to the making of these movies - making hundreds of millions of dollars.
Again - when you get down to it, this is no different than someone complaining that Nintendo getting Bayonetta II as an exclusive is bullshit, really. They protest because they believe they should get to play Bayonetta on the console they prefer, and not the bullshit underpowered one with the confused executives who don't understand what the people want.
Now I know there are ways to poke holes in that analogy, but that's fine - it's not meant to be a rock solid 1:1 comparison. But it's enough to get across the idea, and if you understand the idea, you understand what I'm getting at.
hodayathink
Member
If Marvel/Disney are ever going to get the FF rights back, it's not going to be because Fox isn't putting another movie out. It's too easy to just put one out and call it a day. It'll be because Fox sells the rights back to Marvel in some way. If this FF movie tanks (which is a real possibility), and Marvel keeps making hits for the next few years, I could see it being possible. But thinking that Fox will just give up the rights by not making a movie? Yeah, that's not going to happen.
TDLink
Member
Of course Marvel just wants to make money. Of course FOX just wants to make money. Whoever says they have other motives is fooling themselves. The thing is, Marvel has figured out they can make even more money when they make decent to good films rather than mediocre or bad ones. They're making better movies because that makes them more money.
I firmly believe FOX doesn't give a shit about making a Fantastic Four movie. They just want to make money. They don't want to "let the rights revert," they want to get a big pay day from Disney/Marvel.
I don't believe the property has been that profitable for them. If it was, they would have made a third film after Rise of the Silver Surfer since all of those actors were contracted for one more. Enough people saw the first to justify a second, but that doesn't mean it was profitable.
They are making a new film now solely to hold on to the rights. They are going to try to increase the property's value to try to get Disney to pay them more money to get it back. I believe that is what FOX believes they are doing. However, it is apparent the project is a bit misguided and a bit of a clusterfuck thus far.
From Disney's point of view they are also waiting...waiting for either this movie to bomb and then buy back the property at a low price (like they did with Ghost Rider) or waiting for the project to fall apart before the deadline and the rights to revert at no cost (like with Daredevil).
Marvel only wants it back so they can make more money. From a fan perspective though, it is nicer when a studio who gives a shit about the property (even if they have an ulterior motive for doing so) has taken charge of it, rather than one who obviously doesn't such as FOX.
It happened only two years ago with Daredevil.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Nobody sets out to make a bad movie. The executives who greenlight films don't make the movies themselves, and they certainly don't hire people they think are going to make them a BAD one. They may not care whether or not the movie is GREAT, but it is not in their interests that the people they hire turn out a noncommercial piece of shit.
Many of the people port-begging don't seem to understand this. They argue as if the executives themselves are writing the scripts and lining up the shots and cutting the flick.
Fox doesn't hire Josh Trank off of Chronicle, and let him hire Michael B. Jordan to be Johnny because they want to make a bad movie. That's absolutely not the aim. That's not a studio who is trying to take the path of least resistance towards total mediocrity for the sake of cashing the check
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