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Mega Man Community Thread | It's not over yet! -Cancelled- WHAT AM I FIGHTING FOOOR!?

Ifrit

Member
<cranky old school MM fan rant> Aside from Mega Man Legends 3, I just want a new OC (original continuity) Mega Man game, either classic or X, that either retcons or rectifies some of the weirdness and outright stupidity in the Zero and ZX series. Gameplay-wise, I hold nothing against Zero. But from Mega Man to Mega Man X8 the series was all about the good robots of Dr. Light fighting the misused robots of Dr. Wily and the ensuing war between fully-sentient robots trying to coexist with and those trying to overthrow mankind; in the future of that very same universe that many of us drew pictures of and wrote stories about when we were younger, somewhere along the line there was a thing called...

SOD2E.jpg


..cyber-elfs?!

256px-Mmzero4-newelf.jpg


My ten year old self would have promptly renounced Capcom games forever if upon reading the latest Nintendo Power, I would have read that "cyber elfs" would be a major plot device in Mega Man 7. If you don't get whats so horrible about the name and the appearance of these creatures, don't bother...it's probably just me. I'm probably the only one who thought it was the stupidest, most out of place damn things to put in a Mega Man game. Don't even get me started on X somehow becoming one as well as appearing to Zero in "ghost" form.

Oh, and back in high school did you ever envision the future of the X series, and what the eventual fates of the characters would be?

Did you think that the ultimate fate of Mega Man X and his ally Zero would be that their souls would be entrapped in something called Biometal so that Capcom could make a game with some shitty new character who possesses the powers of X and Zero, instead of, you know, just making a new X game. </cranky old school MM fan rant>

In my opinion, the whole series-wide story arc had gone down the drain. If there is ever a new classic or X series game, I hope there is some serious retcon work done because it was just getting ridiculous. I don't expect anyone to agree with me on any of these points, but that's just how I feel.

Just going to say, you are not alone. Even if I liked MMZero story, I still think the cyber elves stuff felt really out of place as a gameplay feature and as an important plot point, the games would been better without them
 

Ashodin

Member
series rant

In my opinion, the whole series-wide story arc had gone down the drain. If there is ever a new classic or X series game, I hope there is some serious retcon work done because it was just getting ridiculous. I don't expect anyone to agree with me on any of these points, but that's just how I feel.

I have to agree with you bro. Turning the great X and Zero into powerups? Really?

You KNEW they were hating Megaman even back in the Zero days. X
becomes a fuckin' spirithologram thing. WTF! And Zero gets to live?

Then they shit all over him with the obvious clones of X.
 
I think it's interesting to see how Capcom's ancient milking strategies are starting to ruin their public image in multiple ways. Their methods used to work when the gaming industry was smaller and less globally-competitive, but they'll eventually buckle under their own weight if they continue to displease their consumer base. The Rockman fanbase is only the beginning. Their fighting fanbases and Monster Hunter fans are feeling the burn as we speak.
 
Just going to say, you are not alone. Even if I liked MMZero story, I still think the cyber elves stuff felt really out of place as a gameplay feature and as an important plot point, the games would been better without them

I think it stands as a perfect example of a Japanese developers idea of what fits with a series clashing with western tastes (for other examples, see Wind Waker and Metroid Other M). Some people may like the cyber elfs, but I'd like to think that most fans weren't looking forward to cute, Pokémon like characters appearing in their otherwise grimdark game series.

I have to agree with you bro. Turning the great X and Zero into powerups? Really?

You KNEW they were hating Megaman even back in the Zero days. X
becomes a fuckin' spirithologram thing. WTF! And Zero gets to live?

Then they shit all over him with the obvious clones of X.

He'd never admit it, but I think much of that disdain for Mega Man X stemmed from Inafune. Once he started work on the Zero series he really didn't give a rats ass about the X series because (as I understand, anyway) Zero was always HIS original character, the one that Mega Man X was going to star before it even became Mega Man X.
 
I think it's interesting to see how Capcom's ancient milking strategies are starting to ruin their public image in multiple ways. Their methods used to work when the gaming industry was smaller and less globally-competitive, but they'll eventually buckle under their own weight if they continue to displease their consumer base. The Rockman fanbase is only the beginning. Their fighting fanbases and Monster Hunter fans are feeling the burn as we speak.

But their consumer base is displeased because they are not currently milking the Rockman franchise...they're not making any Rockman games at all, at least not the ones people obviously want.
 
But their consumer base is displeased because they are not currently milking the Rockman franchise...they're not making any Rockman games at all, at least the ones people obvious want.
Rockman 9 and 10 added many new additions to the Classic style of play, so I wouldn't necessarily call that milking.

And I'd be fine if they simply acknowledged their fanbase and rewarded them with a great Rockman game, not a whole bunch of sloppy products like X Over. Nothing's better than something awful.
 
Rockman 9 and 10 added many new additions to the Classic style of play, so I wouldn't necessarily call that milking.

But by milking, don't you mean that they were releasing too many Mega Man games too soon after each other (a la what Activision did with Guitar Hero)? I agree that 9 and 10 added some nice new additions, but if that's not what you meant by milking, what did you mean? Because obviously people want Mega Man 11, and I don't see how releasing a new Mega Man game every two years is any harder a feat to pull off now than it was for them in the Famicom/NES days.
 
I never heard many complaints about 9 and 10 releasing too quickly, so no. A new installment wouldn't hurt, either, since these retro-revival games generally do quite well. Milking is a phenomenon that involves more than just quick release windows. Capcom has milked the hell out of its fighting game franchises recently, with on-disc DLC, often minimal upgrades in content and services, and more. And they've been pumped out at a ridiculous rate. I can't say the same for 9 and 10, and I'm eager for 11 to be announced.

By milking strategies, I was referring to their heavy-handed release-windows for Battle Network, Start Force, and Zero to an extent.
 
EDIT: And whats so bad about Xover? The new Megaman model design looks just fine, the gameplay however:

iQMqOkCtl0j0q.gif


The gameplay looks extremely stiff (animation as well), you just travel straight down a path with no platforming...killing enemies (with mixed reused sprites that look out of place), then you teleport to a boss with a really simple turn based combat system...and of course you've got autoplay...which just sounds out of place for MM.

Doubt it'll be a good game. Mega man is seriously just dead. I don't see the point of this release. And yes, the animation looks just as disgusting as the iOS re-release of X.
 

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
So, we're free to discuss the comics in here, right? Going to do this like Sciz and I usually do in the Sonic thread. Basically spoiler-text everything. Hahaha.

Now then... I'm surprised right off the bat they launched into everything instead of exposition, exposition, exposition. But Flynn usually likes getting to the business anyway. At least from the issues I've read that were penned by him. I also feel like this is a turning point where Chad's art got kinda better. Obviously we'll see the fruits of that in #21, hopefully.

I see they're sticking to the American timeframe where Light and Wily were partners in their professional lives, rather than rivals here. Wily's ponytail is lol. So they ended up being contracted to develop an advanced fighting robot, but Light says that the robot master line will serve that purpose, but Blues is the one who'll stay with him. Blues is the first robot with a heart (jeez, I feel like I'm talking about Persona here).

Blues's hair. :lol SO MUCH HAIR.

There's an Apollo Justice costume in the window where Blues gets his scarf! :O Dr. Light also takes Blues to the symphony, to see nature, to see art, and also he goes to Wal-Mart. Blues taking all that culture and whistling his theme song was cute.

You know, it almost seems like nothing's changed at all. Going from the last arc, with everyone harping about the ethics of artificial intelligence, and people implying that Light was too compassionate, Dr. Light has clearly not changed since he developed Blues. He considers Rock, Roll, and Blues his kids first and foremost rather than weaponry. Even if most of his funding came from the defense division.

You know what I thought was so cute? The insertion of the hit-and-run line. Because Blues usually hits and runs in the games!

Dr. Light making fun of Dr. Wily from being banned from doing cool things. Also, Dr. Wily's... being a bit of a jerk. And then Blues overhears everything that Light's saying with Lalinde (I think those were designs for Time Man and Oil Man in this room) but captures it in a totally wrong way. So he takes his giant stash of E-Tanks with him and runs away, but not before smashing a pic of him and Dr. Light on the floor. :/ Dr. Light really did make Blues like a normal person with a will. If Blues were truly subservient, this wouldn't have happened. Again, it reaches a little bit into the morality of AI that was a highlight in the previous arc. Would it be worth it to give complete will to a robot and make them almost human-like emotions and thoughts if your intent is to have them exist for functioning in an occupation first and foremost no matter what? I can't help but to feel like that's a little cruel on the part of the robot.

And then we have the backup story. Guts Man and Concrete Man make one of the best partnerships ever.
Even when they're getting drunk off E-Tanks and are doing karaoke (the children are Rock and Roll, right?)
.

Pretty decent issue, imo. The Short Circuits panel gave me a laugh.

I wish there was a Command Mission 2 with Vile in it :D

Would have been awesome!
Akselziys, you and I are on the same wavelength sometimes. This is one of those times. :3
 
Man, I want to get into the Mega Man comics (considering I've heard nothing but good things about them, and that they seem to be more accurate to the game canon than the Sonic comics are - at any rate, it's not clinging to the Ruby-Spears cartoon like Sonic is the old Dic cartoon), but we're already 17 issues in and I want to start from #1. :I
 

OnPoint

Member
Man, I want to get into the Mega Man comics (considering I've heard nothing but good things about them, and that they seem to be more accurate to the game canon than the Sonic comics are - at any rate, it's not clinging to the Ruby-Spears cartoon like Sonic is the old Dic cartoon), but we're already 17 issues in and I want to start from #1. :I

Graphic novels are your friends
 

Gilgamesh

Member
Man, I want to get into the Mega Man comics (considering I've heard nothing but good things about them, and that they seem to be more accurate to the game canon than the Sonic comics are - at any rate, it's not clinging to the Ruby-Spears cartoon like Sonic is the old Dic cartoon), but we're already 17 issues in and I want to start from #1. :I

Get the paperback volumes... I just did.
 

CorvoSol

Member
I see no difference between Cyber Elves and Net Navis. Aside from the Dark Elf, they play no role in the Zero series' story past the first minute. It seems unfair to write off what was a great story that took everything you knew about the Mega Man series and turned it on its head because you didn't like the power-ups, but hey, opinions and all.
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
All this talk of how hard MMX5 was seems to conflict with my memories of that game, I remember thinking MMX5 was pretty easy, maybe the Xtreme difficulty made bosses insane but I don't remember many platforming sections that were too tricky. X6 though screw that game.
Nah, we're not talking about the difficulty option in the menus, but rather foregoing all upgrades, powerups, and boss weapons to complete the game. Just plain Unarmored X with X-Buster and starting health bar only.

X5 is definitely pretty easy played normally while getting the myriad of powerups the game throws at you, but without all that it becomes hellishly difficult to complete. Some stages made me die like it was Boshy, and this was after already having the experience of beating X1-4 the same way.
 

SkyOdin

Member
At this point in the series, the idea of "sentient programs that float around as masses of energy" is a pretty well-established part of the Mega Man franchise. First there was the floating purple Sigma heads, then there was the Nightmare Virus, then Cyber-elves. And in the Battle Network/Star Force continuity, we have various alien EM entities and Wizards. Heck, even Duo can be classified as a similar kind of existence depending on interpretation.

I don't really get the complaints about cyber-elves being too cute or pokemon-like either, since the Mega Man franchise is loaded with mascot characters. The Classic series in particular has Rush, Eddie, Tango, Beat, Auto, and a ton of cute looking enemies.
 
Oh, there are graphic novel compilations? Already? I actually wasn't expecting that; the Sonic comics didn't get any for well over a decade.

Looks like back-issues are the same price on Archie's site, too (back-issues vs. graphic novels). More recent issues are pricier than normal, though... Still, I could feasibly catch up for about $45, all told. Not bad.
 
Nah, we're not talking about the difficulty option in the menus, but rather foregoing all upgrades, powerups, and boss weapons to complete the game. Just plain Unarmored X with X-Buster and starting health bar only.

X5 is definitely pretty easy played normally while getting the myriad of powerups the game throws at you, but without all that it becomes hellishly difficult to complete. Some stages made me die like it was Boshy, and this was after already having the experience of beating X1-4 the same way.

Ahh that makes a lot more sense, as I recall X5 had areas designed for Mega Man to use the armor that made you immune from spikes... or do perfect air dashes the whole way though o.o
 
Ahh that makes a lot more sense, as I recall X5 had areas designed for Mega Man to use the armor that made you immune from spikes... or do perfect air dashes the whole way though o.o

That sounds more like the Gate Lab stage 1 in X6 where you had to either use that "No-Spike Damage" Armor, or do the most perfect air-dash you've done in your life.

Man, just remembering it is frustrating.

Although, I didn't think X5 or X6 were really that difficult, for normal playthroughs.
 

qq more

Member
Ahh that makes a lot more sense, as I recall X5 had areas designed for Mega Man to use the armor that made you immune from spikes... or do perfect air dashes the whole way though o.o

Nope. That was X6.

In speaking of, I found this little gem in my dropbox:

ohgodwhat.png


:V
 
He so Krazy

I've actually never touched X6. I've tried every entry up through X5 (having beaten X, X4 and X5, at least), but X6's reputation as the black sheep kind of precedes it. Same for X7, although I hear X8 was pretty good.
 

qq more

Member
I replayed X8 very recently. It's sadistic as fuck and I don't mean it in a good way. Way too many trial and errors design to be any fun. It's better than X6 and X7 at least.
 

Solune

Member
Nope. That was X6.

In speaking of, I found this little gem in my dropbox:

ohgodwhat.png


:V

Certainly lives up to his name, this fellow
He so Krazy

I've actually never touched X6. I've tried every entry up through X5 (having beaten X, X4 and X5, at least), but X6's reputation as the black sheep kind of precedes it. Same for X7, although I hear X8 was pretty good.

X6 is ... tolerable I suppose. To me it's like the MM6 of the X series. And I don't know about you guys but I hear X7 is completely removed when talking about the series. It's kind of like the elevator shafts that are missing the 13th floors.
 

Noi

Member
Nope. That was X6.

In speaking of, I found this little gem in my dropbox:

:V

iLuqSkOQ0VkwR.gif


I don't know how to feel about this.

He so Krazy

I've actually never touched X6. I've tried every entry up through X5 (having beaten X, X4 and X5, at least), but X6's reputation as the black sheep kind of precedes it. Same for X7, although I hear X8 was pretty good.

I wouldn't say X8 is very good as a Mega Man game, but it has some parts that are pretty fun/good, aside from the incredibly annoying vehicle stages. It's certainly better than X6 and X7 anyway.

X6 was basically Capcom going "let's make a new game, reuse a lot of the spritework, come up with some new bosses, fill a few levels with random enemy placement and call it a day. Playtesting and balance? Nah, too expensive". Though then again, they definitely skimped on the playtesting for X5 as well.

And I don't know about you guys but I hear X7 is completely removed when talking about the series. It's kind of like the elevator shafts that are missing the 13th floors.

It may as well be. I certainly wouldn't mind if they pulled a DMC and just kept making X games that take place before X7. Which means Axl would be removed from the series, hooray!
 

qq more

Member
Wait what


MM6 and MMX6 don't even compare. MM6 was decent while X6 was just really really awful. X6 is pretty much in its own league if you're gonna compare it to a classic game.
 

EVOL 100%

Member
Well, in the original story of Zero, X would have been shat on even worse.

Iirc the original idea was that X was going to turn evil, not the copy X bullshit. It would have been interesting, to say the least.
 

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
X8 is underrated because two games before it were considered terrible.

With that said, I agree that somehow I felt X6 was more enjoyable than X5.
 
Cyber elves or not, MMZ had a much darker and interesting story than X series after 6... Once they started making X games behind the Megaman creator's back there was no turning back for the story... It was deluded, altered, and broken.
 
That sounds more like the Gate Lab stage 1 in X6 where you had to either use that "No-Spike Damage" Armor, or do the most perfect air-dash you've done in your life.

Well, if you mean those spike walls, unarmored X can do them too, but yeah, not too easy.

I know X6 is really flawed, but I still really like it for some reason in spite of that.
 
iQMqOkCtl0j0q.gif


The gameplay looks extremely stiff (animation as well), you just travel straight down a path with no platforming...killing enemies (with mixed reused sprites that look out of place), then you teleport to a boss with a really simple turn based combat system...and of course you've got autoplay...which just sounds out of place for MM.

I hadn't even realized the rabbits didn't even jump. It looks so bad. Which reminds me, I should try to actually finish the first X game sometime. I got sorta far last time I played it about 10 years ago.
 
I hadn't even realized the rabbits didn't even jump. It looks so bad. Which reminds me, I should try to actually finish the first X game sometime. I got sorta far last time I played it about 10 years ago.

God I've played the game so often from my childhood I can beat the entire thing, every boss, and every secret in a single playthrough... Still love it to death.
 

Noi

Member
Well, if you mean those spike walls, unarmored X can do them too, but yeah, not too easy.

I know X6 is really flawed, but I still really like it for some reason in spite of that.

It's ok to admit you like pain. You're in good company here. ;)

I know the feeling. I like X6 more than I do X4 and X5 in a weird, twisted sort of way.
 

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
It's ok to admit you like pain. You're in good company here. ;)

I know the feeling. I like X6 more than I do X4 and X5 in a weird, twisted sort of way.
A lot of people who play Mega Man seem to like pain one way or another--at least in my experience (er, games difficulty-wise). Hard generally feels good... if it's balanced well and continues to be fun for the player. Speaking of X6, Blaze Heatnix is pretty awesome.

And speaking of the X games, it's just weird in X7 where you have to freaking unlock X in an X game, thinking about it again. I know Zero was starting to be put into the limelight, but it's strange having to unlock the character for which the series is named (and who also was the primary playable character first and foremost beforehand). With X6, continuity-wise, things just started to go downhill (and gameplay-wise in some instances).
 

Sciz

Member
So, we're free to discuss the comics in here, right? Going to do this like Sciz and I usually do in the Sonic thread. Basically spoiler-text everything. Hahaha.

I've been too busy to do any comic reviews lately. :(

Quick #17 bits:

For those who can't read music, the tune Blues is whistling is indeed the only tune it could possibly be.

Also, we need more panels of him with a Disney-esque collection of animals, stat.

Light and Wily bicker like an old married couple.

Jamal Peppers is another artist they need to use more. Good, solid pencil work both here and in Sonic.

And to continue the trend of Gutsman's karaoke sessions referencing vocal songs from the series, this time he's belting out Rockman 8's Brand New Way. <3

Man, I want to get into the Mega Man comics (considering I've heard nothing but good things about them, and that they seem to be more accurate to the game canon than the Sonic comics are - at any rate, it's not clinging to the Ruby-Spears cartoon like Sonic is the old Dic cartoon), but we're already 17 issues in and I want to start from #1. :I

As other people have already said, Archie's been pumping out trade paperbacks at a good clip for a while. The four-issue arc format lets them collect a complete story for a reasonable price, and given that Universe has stuck with the format for nearly four years now, I'd wager that the trades sell well enough that it's in their interest to keep them coming.

The series is almost too accurate to the games, though. The pacing's getting better after everyone complained, but the adaptations of MM1 and 2 go by blisteringly fast.
 

Noi

Member
A lot of people who play Mega Man seem to like pain one way or another--at least in my experience (er, games difficulty-wise). Hard generally feels good... if it's balanced well and continues to be fun for the player. Speaking of X6, Blaze Heatnix is pretty awesome.

And speaking of the X games, it's just weird in X7 where you have to freaking unlock X in an X game, thinking about it again. I know Zero was starting to be put into the limelight, but it's strange having to unlock the character for which the series is named (and who also was the primary playable character first and foremost beforehand). With X6, continuity-wise, things just started to go downhill (and gameplay-wise in some instances).

Blaze Heatnix ain't a bad boss. A shame that his stage is so utter shit. HideofBeast's minimalist speedrun of his stage has the best damn commentary about the stage I've ever heard. You can just feel the hatred.

God, don't remind me of that. It wouldn't be THAT bad if you unlocked X quickly either, but you unlock him after you've already beaten at LEAST half the game, by which time, what's the point?
 
The series is almost too accurate to the games, though. The pacing's getting better after everyone complained, but the adaptations of MM1 and 2 go by blisteringly fast.

Yeah, they're doing it pretty well with 3 and SAR considering all of the set up ever since MM2's arc ended.
 

Darryl

Banned
man the show used to be so amazing to me as a kid. i felt like i struck gold whenever i caught it on TV.

No003cutman.jpg


thinking about going and rewatching it but i'm afraid it'll be actually be pretty terrible.
 
man the show used to be so amazing to me as a kid. i felt like i struck gold whenever i caught it on TV.

No003cutman.jpg


thinking about going and rewatching it but i'm afraid it'll be actually be pretty terrible.

It was bad... I knew it was bad even as a kid but I still watched it... if only because I loved the Megaman X arch and I kept praying if I watched the series enough they'd make a MMX cartoon.... they never did -_-
 

Noi

Member
man the show used to be so amazing to me as a kid. i felt like i struck gold whenever i caught it on TV.

No003cutman.jpg


thinking about going and rewatching it but i'm afraid it'll be actually be pretty terrible.

If by terrible you mean fantastic, then yes. They're pretty fantastic.
 

SkyOdin

Member
Well, in the original story of Zero, X would have been shat on even worse.

Iirc the original idea was that X was going to turn evil, not the copy X bullshit. It would have been interesting, to say the least.

The funny thing about them originally wanting to use X as the main villain in the Zero games is that X had very little character development in his own series. There wasn't a whole lot of dwelling on why X ever became a Marverick Hunter in the first place, let alone setting him up to become a bad guy. Inafune spent half of the X series developing Zero, and completely neglected giving X a personality. Honestly, Copy X actually had a better reason to be a bad guy than X would have.

As for all of the talk about how the games past X5 betrayed the original creator's vision, or whatever: since when was the plot of the X series ever that consistent in the first place? I mean look at some of the random plot direction changes used in the series:

-Zero was brought back in X2 because
the X Hunters had collected his head, leg, and torso parts, despite the fact that Zero had died no less than 5 feet away from X, with legs that had been blown to bits. Why the Dr. Cain had his control chip, but not his head, is not explained.
-In MMX4
Sigma is back with no explanation, despite the fact that Dr. Doppler's anti-virus program had deleted him in the last game.

Really, the X series was already loaded with huge plot holes and inconsistencies. I don't really think that there was some grand plan that X6, X7, and X8 crushed; particularly since X6 and X8 still reference and set up the Zero games.

On the contrary, I think X6 and X8 actually had better writing and created better villains than most of the other X games (possibly X4 excluded).

edit: On the topic of X8, I really liked the game. It actually redeemed Axl quite a bit, by explaining who he actually was, giving him a unique gameplay style, and demoting him from X replacement to X and Zero's rookie sidekick. I also really liked the Neutral Armor's mix and match Armor effects. The game is crushingly hard though, and more or less requires farming Metals to buy up upgrades. Once you collect up enough stuff though, it isn't too bad. However, the two Ride Chaser stages are pretty bad, and the "midboss" of Gravity Antonion's stage is pretty much impossible. I have never survived that trap, and I don't even know how it can be done. If it wasn't for the fact that you can replace it with a certain alternate midboss if you go tackle the stages in the right order, I would have never beaten X8.
 

shaowebb

Member
I love how for no reason every robot Master got buff for the American cartoon from Ruby Spears. The thing is they had NO CLUE how to draw muscles. Just look at the magic eye puzzle of Mega Man's abs from the cover art of the box set!

my7iq.jpg



Also the stupid screenshot opportunity the series offered was magical.
d8SP7.jpg
 
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