Members of german carnival parade use redface to spew refugee hate
- Thread starter SilentRob
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1.21Gigawatts
Banned
This is a good example why the term "race" is bullshit.
What does it refer to? Only different skin colors?
Is it only diversity when the skin color is different?
There are people from all kinds of countries living together in the european countries.
Just because the color of the skin is usually not that different doesn't mean its less diverse.
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
Nice cherry picking. People who say that are shouted down for it. There is division and problems, but people aren't silent about them hiding behind the pile of horseshit that is tradition.
that's my point. Your avatar is a person with a black face (with the scenery of a city in it)
It's not trying to use the US-cultural appropriation of "blackface" which portrays a negative stereotype of black people.
Neither is little kids dressing up.
Are spray-tans racist?
I feel like that barely changes the meaning. They're still comparing themselves to the natives in a call to push against immigration as if the refugees are bring in pox blankets
Sadly yes.
You display zero awareness of racist history of Germany and a utter unwillingness to learn.
Really baffled by this as well.
Look, the Dalai Lama, pictured with Swastikas!
Let's ignore the meaning of the symbol in Buddhism and make it all about how he's a Nazi because my cultural views are the only ones I accept.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
This is really dumb and I'm not sure if you're being real or obtuse.
Edit:
Look, the Dalai Lama, pictured with Swastikas!
Let's ignore the meaning of the symbol in Buddhism and make it all about how he's a Nazi because my cultural views are the only ones I accept.
While I'm not sure about the previous post, this one is both dumb and obtuse.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
But it being divers doesn't also mean it's racist. As a kid I didn't meet any black people but in my teens I went to school with some. Thinking back I wouldn't agree with being painted black and I wouldn't want to have my kids, if I ever have some, to be either.
Really baffled by this as well.
Look, the Dalai Lama, pictured with Swastikas!
Let's ignore the meaning of the symbol in Buddhism and make it all about how he's a Nazi because my cultural views are the only ones I accept.
Makes no sense that's no Nazi symbol.
Yes, you make complete sense. You do not like the idea that things you perceive as being harmless can be perceived by others as being racist and offensive.
It's the same rationale I heard applied many times over by my insensitive and/or racist relatives living in relatively small towns in Nowheresville, Tennessee all those years ago.
Thank you for your contribution. It isn't at all an overreaction to find this offensive, here or there. Continuing this sort of affront is simply ignorant and small-minded. To the extent that we do not act contrarily to law, we are all free to make our own choices, but to work so hard to refute the perceived harm presented by others, not to mention the empirical research, is...just silly.
Barring some horrible personal experience, your bright line rule will follow most others and shift in that direction -- eventually. For now, you and others like you are simply behind the curve. Here's to catching up.
Again
Using the term "race" is offensive to Germans, not offensive to the US
Little kids dressing up as three wise kings (again, ESP when there WERE NO black kids to play the traditional (whether it's accurate or not) third king) is NOT offensive to Germans, but offensive to the US.
Why is using one okay, but not the other?
Either you admit both things are offensive and should be stopped
You say neither thing is racist and should go on because it depends on the cultural/meaning context
or what?
Really baffled by this as well.
Look, the Dalai Lama, pictured with Swastikas!
Let's ignore the meaning of the symbol in Buddhism and make it all about how he's a Nazi because my cultural views are the only ones I accept.
Impressive strawman, would not read again.
Crash Station
Member
One word: Trump
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
Srsly?
Trump is called out for it every day.. Its just that he and half the country doesn't care about it.
Look, the moment Germans (as in people living in Germany, not only Germans by heritage) feel offended by kids painting their face because they want to look like one of the three wise kings in order so collect money for the poor, I'm sure we'll have a discussion about this and culture will change.
But to be honest, I think we have bigger problems to solve right now.
But to be honest, I think we have bigger problems to solve right now.
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
Silver Arrows
Banned
Smiley, I appreciate you and your posts, on everything else.
But this one is mind-numbingly stupid. And the avatar quote on Oblesse.
Well then Togo
Are you defending lacking awareness with lacking awareness?
yeah that logic was flawed from the start there. Someone saying "All Mexicans are rapists" has huge popular support, I wouldn't say they're exactly being "call out".
Anyway - I'm NOT defending the AMERICAN use of blackface to portray a negative stereotype. That's racist as fuck.
I AM Saying that little kids dressing up as an old Christian tradition is NOT offensive unless Germany/black people in Germany actually come out against it - and really, it's not even a NEGATIVE portrayal at all. Just because the US uses blackface negatively doesn't mean the rest of the world does.
Asia uses whiteface and it's meant VERY positively, I don't see anyone being outraged about that.
man the avatar quote was joke chill people
I haven't seen a single American post "yes using the term race is offensive" so... You tell me? Are you saying there should be outrage in the US about that word? Or joke about jews? Because if so then I'm willing to go ahead and concede the point that we should eliminate any cultural practice that could possible be offensive to anyone anywhere in the world.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
A lot of Asians find Whiteface offensive because it basically says that being Asian is lesser. Don't just spout shit.
Why does a kid dressing up at one of the three wise men need to wear blackface? Is his blackness his defining feature? Thinking so is racist. Just like an Asian guy doesn't need to wear blackface to dress up as Mr. T, neither does a kid dressing up as a wise man.
Why does a kid dressing up at one of the three wise men need to wear blackface? Is his blackness his defining feature? Thinking so is racist. Just like an Asian guy doesn't need to wear blackface to dress up as Mr. T, neither does a kid dressing up as a wise man.
Is this a longwinded way of saying you never listened to black people or black movements?
At this point it's a lost cause, some people just don't want to listen.
They got baited by the thread title and made up their mind even before they read the thread, you giving an explanation is a waste of time
I listened to a few colleagues in Germany, but it seems their opinion wouldn't count here.
the kid doesn't just wear blackface and he goes like that, he has the entire costume and the blackness of his face is part of the costume. It is NOT the defining feature. it is PART of the costume.
good lord do I have to keep going back and quoting my own posts? Please find me a "black movement" or news story about black people IN GERMANY being offended by little kids dressing up as one of the three wise kings. Go ahead. I haven't seen/found one even when I went around collecting donations, no black person would go WOW I AM SO OFFENDED BY YOU LITTLE KID COLLECTING DONATIONS WHILE HAVING A COSTUME AND A BLACK FACE.
I would like to see a (reputable) source for your claim regarding Germany, if you don't mind. I've looked for information about minstrel shows regarding Germany the last time a Zwarte Piet thread came up and could find virtually no information (that would support your theory), so I would seriously be interested in this.
The whole "the US is racist too!" is some childish bullshit that I can't believe people are seriously trying to argue in order to defend racist traditions.
How about some European countries and a lot of Europeans learn from a country that acknowledges the racist connotations by blackface instead of keep on defending its racist traditions?
How about some European countries and a lot of Europeans learn from a country that acknowledges the racist connotations by blackface instead of keep on defending its racist traditions?
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
Some kind of council of black people in germany has spoken up against blackfacing, but in the context of theaters.
Many times white actors where cast in black roles even though qualified black actors are available.
I remember there beeing a debate about Swarte-Piet in the netherlands(this tradition doesn't exist in germany), but I don't remember any debates in germany.
I've actually never heard that red facing is considered offensive in the US. Dressing up as an indian is among the top 3 most popular dress ups for carneval in germany.
I don't know what else to say other than I had never heard of blackface before the Jim Knopf thing two years ago and I have been living my entire life in Germany. NOTHING about it on TV, NOTHING about it at school, NOTHING about it in newspapers/theatre plays etc.
The only black people "I knew" were on Der Prinz von Bel-Air and that show was awesome.
Crash Station
Member
You're agreeing with me though, that there is no bright line rule. At no point did I decide what people can or can't be offended by. I never even said you can't be offended by blackface in countries where there's no historical stigma surrounding it. I don't know where you're getting this idea that I don't like the idea of people being offended or perceiving things as racist.
All I said was it's ignorant to discard all historical context for any instance of offense, which in turn could be ignorant toward other cultures. The only statement that I presented as factual was that the malicious atrocities committed are in a completely different league than the more subdued ones based on ignorance. I don't feel that getting labeled as racist or ignorant because I think the Native American genocide and the Holocaust are worse than blackface is fair.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Neither the kids nor the people at the door care whether the kid is black though, I wasn't spray tanned as Melchior or Balthasar either. At this point it's a pointless tradition.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-16492222
How many Germans/Black people in Germany need to be upset about it to meet your obtuse requirement?
Silver Arrows
Banned
All of them. Even then, it doesn't matter because muh traditions. /s
PdotMichael
Banned
Well, because Melchior and Batthasar representing Europe and Asia.
Crash Station
Member
My point was even when racism gets called out, the racists just don't care. The climate is far more toxic now than it has been in a while in US.
A Link to the Past
Banned
So members of a nation with a pretty ugly history re: genocide compares themselves to a group of people who were victims of genocide
But we DONT use blackface in a way that they used, so we don't have that connotation with it as they do. Is that so hard to understand?
I agree that THAT would be racist because there's no excuse IF there are black actors available. That's not the situation we're talking about here though.
However, in my hometown, there were no black kids to play that role. Neither are there in a lot of other small towns.
see comment above, NOT the scenario i'm talking about.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Plenty of people in Europe are of darker complexions.
No, it's kind of the point. The difference between the symbols gets ignored to reach a conclusion.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Historical accuracy of the 2 Germans and a German in black face paint.
Coffee Dog
Banned
gonna go out on a limb and say it's the ones without black people
PdotMichael
Banned
And how is that related that you weren't forced to paint your face black as Melchior or Balthasar?
flaming hot urge?
what?
whaaaaaaat?
Some kids do it, some don't. I'm sure there are parents who want it to be "right" and force their kids to paint their faces. That's just wrong. But - at least for me and my surrounding - this isn't a tradition "one has to defend" and crap like that.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
When the difference would be the minority isn't big enough to be sufficiently offended?
I said spray tanned not painted black.
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