I find it kind of hard that some parts of Europe can't see even a tradition can be wrong. In the UK we still have people that won't move on. Black face etc here in the UK isn't illegal but is looked down opon. You will get asked to wash it off etc if a police man sees you and you will probably end up in the press getting ripped apart. Like when Cameron posed with Morris dancers who blackfaced he was deemed a idiot and they were deemed stuck in the past racists.
Members of german carnival parade use redface to spew refugee hate
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I find it kind of hard that some parts of Europe can't see even a tradition can be wrong. In the UK we still have people that won't move on. Black face etc here in the UK isn't illegal but is looked down opon. You will get asked to wash it off etc if a police man sees you and you will probably end up in the press getting ripped apart. Like when Cameron posed with Morris dancers who blackfaced he was deemed a idiot and they were deemed stuck in the past racists.
Apparently it's not the only one that's being sued. Another one that pictures the refugees as locust also had charges filed against it.
http://m.mdr.de/thueringen/sued-thu...tzung-karneval-wasungen100.html#mobilredirect
But at least they didn't use racist imagery.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
I'm not sure what you are asking. I'm not an expert of Japanese culture so my knowledge of 'ganguro' is a porn game in the early 00s. However I know Japan has a terrible track record with its representation of black people, so I'm not going to be particularly surprised if ganguro is equally insensitive.
Saying everyone is ignorant is not trivializing it, it's stating basic fact. Per the above, I'm clearly ignorant to whatever ganguro means. However when that ignorance is demystified I have a decision to make. Do I continue to propagate the ignorance, or do I fight it? And by fight I don't mean go out and protest. I just mean not take part in a tradition that may be harmful.
All places have those people, and it's unfortunate that in some places (such as here in the US with the republican party) they grow to a size in which they have power.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Whoever hasn't been painted black as a kid impersonating Casper when going caroling throws the first stone.
Thinking back I'm kinda glad there were so few black people living in my area would have been awkward.
Thinking back I'm kinda glad there were so few black people living in my area would have been awkward.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
*throws stone*
But I was a Jim Knopf fan. I never dressed up as Jim Knopf, though.
but Germans used blackface IN GERMANY, not elsewhere. So... yeah.
It would be the same as if Germany started a HUGE moral outrage about Americans using the term "race" to describe people IN the US. You don't see that happening.
Logic doesn't work "everyone else can't do what we find offensive, we can do whatever we want in our country though because everyone else is wrong"?
Anyway, did NOT think people would find little kids celebrating an ancient Christian tradtion to collect money for charity offensive. Good thing those things don't happen in the US then so why can't we all go home and be happy? There are MUCH bigger racism-issues going on (in Germany, mainly Muslim-related, or in the US about... any race not white) in the world that we don't have to condemn an innocent childhood tradition. You don't see adults dressing up as the three kings so it's clearly only a children's tradition.
Also for the record, where I grew up we wouldn't have HAD enough black kids to play one of the three wise kings, so you expect us to either a) abandon something entirely non-offensive to collect charity money just because someone halfway across the globe is offended by it?
Making fun of Communists/China would be VERY offensive in China, does that mean everyone in the rest of the world has to stop doing it? no.
It is amazing that someone gave you the power to define "real racism". Whoever it was, never listen to that person again.
Coffee Dog
Banned
Germans using blackface in Germany is offensive to reasonable people everywhere.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
hahahahhahaha.
seriously, do you think germans and americans are that different? I guarantee that as far as uneducated racist pieces of shit goes each country has their fair share.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
If that's your argument then Germany sure sounds xenophobic. Maybe there's a reason so few black people are present.
Edit:
Why did you combine Communists and China into one? Making fun of communism is making fun of a political ideology, not a subset of unchoosable traits.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
That hurt you heathen.
I have NEVER heard of anyone being offended by three wise kings blackface in my 19 years of growing up in Switzerland, neither in Switzerland nor in Germany.
This isn't your American "blackface with tradition of being used to portray stupid black people" blackface, this is a Christian Christmas dress-up for kids. None of these kids (or their parents) think one of the three wise kings is inferior to another.
Again - the US using the term "race" to describe people would be hugely offensive elsewhere too, does that mean the US using it means that they're using it to say "PICK WHETHER YOU'RE HUMAN OR DOG"? no.
Crash Station
Member
I think you're misinterpreting what I'm saying. I'm not talking about the assumption of inferiority and danger that led to slavery and the Holocaust in the first place. I categorize that as malice. I'm more talking about things that no one with common sense would assume said things are offensive without being raised in an environment where it's drilled into their heads that it's offensive. A type of ignorance that can transform into malice is not one based on common sense.
If someone with no inherent racism is doing something offensive and they're told that, they would apologize and stop. If someone is doing something intentionally racist, they will double down on their beliefs when told to stop. You see how there's a difference here, right?
Nice strawman with the kids, great way to miss the point.
Reminder, the actual point is pretty easy to understand, yellow/black/redface being racist. Casual racism which makes racism like displayed in the OP much more likely.
People think it's cute. Because that's what it is over here. Kids painting their skin black. Because they're kids. That's all there is to it.
There's a difference between "blackface" as it's used in the US and blackface as it's used by German kids though. That's my point.
that's my point, too.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
What does that have to do with people defending blackface?
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I mean changing religious important middle eastern to white people is easy to do, worked with jesus. Much more difficult with black people.
PdotMichael
Banned
I blame the lack of cotton plantages in Germany.
At least Germany as one of the most popoular countries for African immigrants is fully by choice.
MonorailCat
Member
US-Americans trying to enforce their cultural views on the rest of the world - news at 11.
Because little kids dressing up and painting their skin black is NOT offensive in Germany.
Because "indicate your race" is NOT offensive in the US.
Roles reversed, it WOULD be offensive. So why is one okay but the other one isnt?
NoblesseOblige
Banned
US-Americans is redundant.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
I used the defintion Wikipedia gave me, then someone told me Wikipedia isn't a good source, so I used the definition from a dictionairy, which was the same as the one on Wikipedia.
Should I have asked you?
Yeah, the reason is africans weren't shipped to germany as slaves.
This whole thread started because some Germans felt the Native Americans should have fought harder
Are you trying to say you never asked or listened? I admittingly did the same, but you know, you can change that.
MonorailCat
Member
No, it isn't. It's a common term in Germany. America is the continent, US-Americans are people from the United States.
No, this whole thread started because people were more offended by dress-up than by the message portrayed.
I don't think ANYONE here is arguing that the message was legitimate and good, if that's all that had happened this thread would have died on page 1. But it escalated from there.
I'm saying when I dressed up as a little kid and went to collect donations, black Swiss people never opened the door and yelled OMG YOU LITTLE PIECE OF SHIT at me.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
actually because germany doesn't have any african protectorates like france had and has.
What is this thread?
US-Americans thinking the term "American" automatically means "citizen of the United States of America", probably.
Wasn't like... Nigeria German? I don't remember the exact details.
Wasn't like... Nigeria German? I don't remember the exact details.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
I guess Germans had the foresight to keep their terrible deeds against black people in Africa so that in the future they can defend their use of blackface.
USA is in the Americas (The North America in fact). Saying US implies being in America. Thus saying US-America is redundant.
Patrick Bateman
Member
Well, it had.
That's actually not what it says. The translation in the OP is a bit sloppy.
Correct is "The Indians couldn't do anything against immigration. Now they're living in reservations"
It's an idiotic argument, but it also doesn't blame the Indians for anything.
Bitch Pudding
Member
From a German perspective, it's not.
PdotMichael
Banned
Or from all the other countries in America.
Crash Station
Member
The thing is blackface IS a thing in Japan which is actually acknowledged as offensive and ignorant as it was taken from American culture. Ganguro on the other hand is based on folklore and kabuki theater, and I think some would consider the notion that it's insensitive at all culturally insensitive on its own.
There are South American countries that would find that statement extremely insensitive. I've seen gaffers from I think Brazil that have said as much.
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
It still comes from a place of ignorance and is wrong.
Europe has a lot of growing up to do when it comes to race relations. It's only going to get worse with the mass migration of people this century. Europeans didn't have to worry about other races because they were tucked away nice and neat in their little colonies. Times are changing and shit like blackface, even as innocuous as this stuff, won't be acceptable forever.
yeah let's learn from the US where black people get shot for being black by cops? what?
I'm talking about a little kid's tradition that's ONLY offensive to US-Americans because of their OWN tradition/history with slavery and blackface. It is NOT used in that context in Europe and means something much, MUCH different.
ah yes it was Namibia, my bad
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
Before long we'll have offended the whole world in this thread.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Not that I know of, Namibia though.
Colonies and protectorates aren't exactly the same.
was a colony
Are you using a strawman to not face your racism?
MonorailCat
Member
NoblesseOblige
Banned
mhmmmm
Not sure what the avatar quote is meant to mean.
I'm not sure what Ganguro can be offensive to since it looks orange (from my searches anyway) and there's no such thing as orange people.
did you read the entire post/any of the other posts I made in this thread?
Him saying "Europe needs to learn about racism"... from whom? Who's the rolemodel here? I'd argue kids dressing up is MUCH less harmful to black people than getting shot for being black by cops.
I noticed your avatar is a character with a black face.
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
Deflection. "Look! The US still suffers from racism so our racism isn't so bad!"
When people act racist in the United States they are generally called out and shamed/educated for it. They don't stick their fingers in their ears and yell "tradition!" at the top of their lungs over and over again.
Last time I heard about that someone said "WELL BLACK PEOPLE SHOULDN'T BE WEARING HOODIES", so............. yeah.
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