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Men rights and issues

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Couple of movements out there (taken from Wikipedia):

United States

National Coalition For Men

NCFM formed in 1977 to address men’s issues. Since that time, a men’s rights movement has been steadily growing globally to address men’s rights that have been seriously neglected in laws and public policies worldwide. Men have been systematically discriminated against in parenting rights, child custody, criminal entencing, military conscription, education, domestic and sexual violence laws that neglect male victims and support false accusations, reproductive rights, genital integrity laws, international forced labor laws, public benefits and more, while men and boys face societal misandry and male bashing. Men make 80-99% of homeless adults, job deaths and injuries, incercarated persons, combat deaths, dropouts and suicide deaths (“attempted” suicide rates are unreliable because it is unlikely men report failed suicides as often as women do). Men also die younger than women and have higher mortality rates for 13 of the 15 leading causes of death. But instead of hearing about these disparities we relentlessly hear about gender disparities at the top of society (government officials, CEOs), which exist mainly due to expectation gaps (women still seek men who can be primary breadwinners) and because women have more options than men to be the primary parent, an option most women choose. The so-called “pay gap” is only a snapshot of average yearly full-time salaries, which does not account for overtime (90% male), commute distances, work flexibility, and numerous life choices, which, according to a recent study by the U.S. Department of Labor, are more likely the causes of the pay gap than discrimination. The fact that men make the majority of elected officials and business owners does not mean men’s issues are adequately addressed. That is what Warren Farrell aptly calls “the myth of male power.” (See “The Myth of Male Power; Why Men Are The Disposable Sex” by Warren Farrell, Ph.D.)

American Coalition of Fathers and Children

ACFC was founded in 1996 and is commonly referred to as America's Shared Parenting organization. Over the past 15 years we have been working to assure children maintain full relationships with both their parents in the event of divorce or in cases of unmarried parentage

The issues

Divorce

Men's rights groups in the United States began organizing in opposition of divorce reform and custody issues around the 1960s. The men involved in the early organization claimed that family and divorce law discriminated against them and favored their wives.

Reproductive rights

In the US in 2006, the court case Dubay v. Wells concerned whether men should have an opportunity to decline all paternity rights and responsibilities in the event of an unplanned pregnancy. Supporters said that this would allow the woman time to make an informed decision and give men the same reproductive rights as women.

Adoption

Fathers' rights activists seek a gender-neutral approach in which unwed men and women would have equal rights in adoption issues.

Child custody

In India, father's rights have been a concern since 2000. Many men feel that they are discriminated against and that they do not have the same contact rights or equitable shared parenting rights as their ex-spouse. The United Kingdom and United States were cited, with several other unnamed countries, as affected regions where child custody issues have become complicated by higher divorce rates, less father-child time, while there has been greater expectations for fatherly involvement in their children's lives.

Parental abduction

Men's rights activists state that children of men of Indian descent have been abducted from their homes in Canada, the United States and Europe, and moved to India where the national courts do not recognize foreign child custody orders.

Family law and parental leave

There is wide variance in parental leave provisions across 24 western countries, which are primarily European countries, Australia, Canada and the United States. The most liberal allows the couple to choose how to split the family leave time between mother and father. In the countries where parental leave is available and defined, it is generally for 2 to 12 days. Where maternal leave is available and defined, all but the United States and Australia, the period of time is generally 14–20 weeks, but four countries have extended leave periods.

Paternity fraud

Paternity fraud occurs when a mother intentionally identifies a man as a biological father, who she knows is not the father.

Health

Men's rights activists view the health issues faced by men and their shorter life spans as compared to women as evidence of discrimination and oppression. They state that feminism has led to women's health issues being privileged at the expense of men's.They point to higher suicide rates in men compared to women, and complain about the funding of men's health issues as compared to women's, including noting that prostate cancer research receives less funding than breast-cancer research. Some doctors and academics have argued circumcision is a violation of men's right to health and bodily integrity, while others have disagreed.

Education

Men's rights activists describe the education of boys as being in crisis, with boys having reduced educational achievement and motivation as compared to girls.[78] Advocates blame the influence of feminism on education for discrimination against and systematic oppression of boys in the education system. They critique what they describe as the "feminization" of education, stating that the predominance of female teachers, a focus on girls' needs as well as a curricula and assessment methods that favour girls have proved repressive and restrictive to men and boys. Men's rights approaches call for increased recognition of masculinity, greater numbers of male role models, more competitive sports, and the increased responsibilities for boys in the school setting. They have also urged for clearer school routines, more traditional school structures, including single sex classes, and stricter discipline.

Military conscription

Men's rights activists have argued that military conscription of men is an example of oppression of men.

Governmental structures

Men's rights groups have called for male-focused governmental structures to address issues specific to men and boys including education, health, work and marriage. Men's rights groups in India have called for the creation of a Men's Welfare Ministry and a National Commission for Men, as well as the abolition of the National Commission for Women. In the United Kingdom, the creation of a Minister for Men analogous to the existing Minister for Women, have been proposed by David Amess, MP and Lord Northbourne, but were rejected by the government of Tony Blair. In the United States, Warren Farrell heads a commission focused on the creation of a "White House Council on Boys and Men" as a counterpart to the "White House Council on Women and Girls" which was formed in March 2009.

Domestic violence

Since the late 1970s and 1980s men's rights activists have asserted, based on academic studies, that the incidence of domestic violence and murders committed by women is under-reported, partly due to men's reluctance to admit being victims.

Allegations of rape

They protest the naming of accused rapists while providing the accuser with anonymity.

Social security and insurance

Men's rights groups have argued since the 1970s that men are given inferior social security and tax benefits to women.

Have at it and discuss these as well as other issues that affect men primarily, and how one can combat them.
 
I'm not part of the movement.

Both feminism and MRM raise legitimate issues that should be dealt with.

MRM raises some legitimate issues then manages to bleed rhetoric that is either patently false or just plain hateful. I still have not been linked to a site or group that is a positive force in the movement and not just some hateful circle jerk about feminism or women.
 
Just to remind people, MRM is not anti-women.

Just like feminism, there will always be those who hold extremist views.
"Some men's rights activists question the criminal status of marital rape, arguing that sex within marriage forms part of the marriage covenant."

Not anti-women. Right.
 
Ein Soph, please stop trying to make what could be a perfectly good discussion about men's issues into a discussion about whether the MRM movement is anti-women. We already have a topic where that argument is taking place and this topic is an attempt at having a different discussion.
 
Its not about men's rights. Its about equality. But at the same time, were not equal.

Women should have more say than men regarding things dealing with giving birth/abortion.

Though there are issues such as women lying about getting raped/abused.
 
Its not about men's rights. Its about equality. But at the same time, were not equal.

Women should have more say than men regarding things dealing with giving birth/abortion.

Though there are issues such as women lying about getting raped/abused.

God fucking damnit I'm out.
 
Ein Soph, please stop trying to make what could be a perfectly good discussion about men's issues into a discussion about whether the MRM movement is anti-women. We already have a topic where that argument is taking place and this topic is an attempt at having a different discussion.

Fair enough
 
Ein Soph, please stop trying to make what could be a perfectly good discussion about men's issues into a discussion about whether the MRM movement is anti-women. We already have a topic where that argument is taking place and this topic is an attempt at having a different discussion.
I think he was just making an attempt to say what you're saying, and it didn't go so well.
 
It is worth pointing out that there is bound to be bad eggs in any major movements, and that these do not invalidate the legitimate issues at hand.
So instead, or maybe in addition, to being baffled by some of the men's right activists, it would be nice to see a discussion on these issues.
 
Any time people allege "an epidemic of false rape accusations" all I can say is iwanttoseethereceipts.gif

With the rare exception where the woman confesses after the face, how could we possible know this?
 
That's the equivalent of saying that all feminists are anti-men which is obviously not true.

I've yet to meet one that isn't.

There I said it.

Sort of joking, but i've seriously never met someone that actually identifies as a feminist who wasn't just some horribly pushy man hater. I guess they're like vegans a lot of the time. I've never tried to talk to anyone about either of those things, but there you are, enjoying your party and then bam, feminism or veganism let me tell you all about it.

At least with a mans rights guy I can tell him to piss off and not feel bad, because who cares about this shit. It's like trying to form a whites rights group, just don't do it.
 
This shit really rubs me the wrong way. I say that as a straight white male. Really gross.

It's like trying to form a whites rights group, just don't do it.

Yeah, I guess this really sums it up for me.
 
It is worth pointing out that there is bound to be bad eggs in any major movements, and that these do not invalidate the legitimate issues at hand.
So instead, or maybe in addition, to being baffled by some of the men's right activists, it would be nice to see a discussion on these issues.

I do wish you had construed this topic much more narrowly to issues where there is inequity (e.g. family law) rather than going quite so broad (and actively including the bad eggs in your OP).
 
Well, when you were here you certainly did your best to discredit the whole notion of men being concerned about their rights.

Just because its rare doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Why not be supportive of equal rights? You of all people on this board would understand this. Anyways good thread there need to be changes for the equality of all.

If you want the thread to turn into the typical paranoia about false rape claims as if they're anywhere near the norm when there are actual issues to discuss fine.
 
car-train-wrecks-1.jpg
 

I don't get the animosity toward the subject. Seems like it could be a legitimate concern and there have been cases of it happening. No one wants to go to prison for something they didn't do.

Also I don't have any stats or knowledge on the subject, I just don't see why there can't be an argument made for both sides.
 
Always scary posting in threads involving this subject matter, but, well

The concerns I have, some were outlined by the OP - divorce favoring women, adoption issues, and parental leave are all subjects I've hoped to see a little more equality for as a male. That being said, we're not going to ever be able to strike actual equality without overcompensation (from either side) for almost all of these issues.

One thing I really dislike is people painting males as rapists before anything even happens. Just that kind of assumption is horrible, whether or not there's statistics to back it up, is still an unfair thing to do. Still, I -really- don't want to get into any discussion about rape, I'd rather mostly just talk about level-headed and important issues that don't bug my soul as much.
 
Ein Soph, please stop trying to make what could be a perfectly good discussion about men's issues into a discussion about whether the MRM movement is anti-women. We already have a topic where that argument is taking place and this topic is an attempt at having a different discussion.

Why don't you call out Pigeon as well, who is obviously goading people on into a fruitless argument with his dumb remarks?
 
I do wish you had construed this topic much more narrowly to issues where there is inequity (e.g. family law) rather than going quite so broad (and actively including the bad eggs in your OP).

I just went ahead and copied most of that from wikipedia.
I'll go back over the "out there" issues and see if that might foster a more constructive discussion.
 
Sort of joking, but i've seriously never met someone that actually identifies as a feminist who wasn't just some horribly pushy man hater.
Hi! You're confusing problems with oppressive patriarchy with problems with men. "The patriarchy" impacts men, too. In that way, men's rights is almost viable on some level and not actually the silliest thing I've ever heard of.
 
Ah yes, the apparent vast epidemic of women lying about rape/abuse that has morphed into a rallying cry of fear for men's rights on the Internet. That's not to say it doesn't happen and isn't terrible for the man involved, but you'd think reading some men's rights discussions that women were secretly plotting away, Cosmos in hand, waiting to trap the next innocent man in a web of rape lies.

I'm not opposed to some of issues brought forth by men's rights groups, but most if it is wrapped up in so much misogyny that they do a great deal of disservice.
 
I've yet to meet one that isn't.

There I said it.

Sort of joking, but i've seriously never met someone that actually identifies as a feminist who wasn't just some horribly pushy man hater. I guess they're like vegans a lot of the time. I've never tried to talk to anyone about either of those things, but there you are, enjoying your party and then bam, feminism or veganism let me tell you all about it.

I know a feminist. She is pretty cool actually and hasn't been anti-man around me. I can say that some of the feminists she knows though are anti-men all the way. They harassed her for talking to me and my girlfriend one day when some of them happened by where we were sitting and chatting. They tried to get me to respond to them as well with lots of name calling and insults but I ignored them.
 
Haha, men are doing just fine. Discussion on certain gender issues is great, but to suggest a movement is necessary for the gender that's been in charge as long as there has been societies? Absolute insanity.
 
Any time people allege "an epidemic of false rape accusations" all I can say is iwanttoseethereceipts.gif

With the rare exception where the woman confesses after the face, how could we possible know this?

I've only known one woman who claimed she was raped. I really just want to know who these rapists are.

Edit: I'd like to discuss the fact that men don't have an option in abortion. I feel as though males get the short shaft in all of this. If, during the first trimester, the male does not wish to pay child support, he should be able to exit the relationship and not pay child support. On day 31, however, he's locked in until the child is 18.
 
I do wish you had construed this topic much more narrowly to issues where there is inequity (e.g. family law) rather than going quite so broad (and actively including the bad eggs in your OP).

To be honest, I used to firmly believe that family law had real issues to work on until I realized who agreed with me. Now I'm much more undecided -- the association makes me concerned that it's unexamined privilege on my part.
 
If you want the thread to turn into the typical paranoia about false rape claims as if they're anywhere near the norm when there are actual issues to discuss fine.

Not at all. You dismissed it entirely. But I don't blame you if your gonna bail. This thread will be terrible. All I said is that it can happen. But whatever.
 
I do wish you had construed this topic much more narrowly to issues where there is inequity (e.g. family law) rather than going quite so broad (and actively including the bad eggs in your OP).

I was going to tell Squiddybiscuit in the other thread not to be the one to create this one as I felt he wasn't the right person, given his negative stance against "men's rights" in that other thread.
 
Why?

Im assuming stuff like that happens. I don't know anything as serious as rape, but i do know of a friend who had his ex bruise herself a bit and blamed it on him.

Not at all. You dismissed it entirely. But I don't blame you if your gonna bail. This thread will be terrible. All I said is that it can happen. But whatever.

What can you honestly do about it that wouldn't hinder victims coming forward?
 
What can you honestly do about it that wouldn't hinder victims coming forward?

Probably nothing. But we are on an internet forum what good are we doing talking about it if we also don't go into the real world and try to make changes? It seems to always boil down to a he said she said scenario.
 
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