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[Bagels]

Masterliness is what that was.

No, no - just one-up me, Penguino. >:[

Having known Cooper since the old thread days (actually not that long ago), I'm just constantly impressed by her insight and how much progress she has made. I know you don't feel like you're anything approaching an adult, Coop (I'm still waiting, myself. I'm not sure you ever feel like an adult...), but man are you on the right path.

I could not have written that that well with a hundred rewrites. I take a lot of pride in my writing, but damn...I got nothing on that.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

So in about a half hour I'm going to pop about five sleeping pills/aspirin. Generic Tylenol PM actually. I just want to get knocked out and fucking sleep. Decided to skip it last night because my body gets tolerant easily with pills for some reason. So, I'm hoping it works today so I can sleep hours.

If I don't get out soon too, I'm gonna find a way to get plastered. I just need a day right now I can fucking forget everything and loosen. I'm agitated. I'm not sleeping well, I'm making poor decisions, crap food, pissing people off for reasons I don't know, stuck with nothing to do. All around shit.

 

[Patriots7]

Oscillating between pills, alcohol and other stuff.

I honestly feel sometimes that the hardest part of being so fucked up mentally sometimes, is having to pretend to the outside world that everything is perfectly fine.

Every time I begin trying to open up to someone one, I'm rebuffed with "I'd kill for your job/car/stuff" and then I'm just put off more from actually getting really deep.

My so-called best friends don't really give a damn. My family thinks I'm the perfect child who is so strong and happy. The one person I would go to, I don't want her to judge me like I know she would.

Psychiatry didn't help. =/

Sorry for venting.

 

[46w500]

Oscillating between pills, alcohol and other stuff.

I honestly feel sometimes that the hardest part of being so fucked up mentally sometimes, is having to pretend to the outside world that everything is perfectly fine.

Every time I begin trying to open up to someone one, I'm rebuffed with "I'd kill for your job/car/stuff" and then I'm just put off more from actually getting really deep.

My so-called best friends don't really give a damn. My family thinks I'm the perfect child who is so strong and happy. The one person I would go to, I don't want her to judge me like I know she would.

Psychiatry didn't help. =/

Sorry for venting.

I'd lay off the drugs and alcohol for starters. You have to realize it's making you and your problems worse, not better. Trust me, as i speak from experience. Many years sober now and my life, my social circle, my mental capacity, and my self esteem are all so much better.

Second, how old are you? Young people tend to value things more than the substance of a person. If them liking you for your stuff bothers you, then clearly they are not worth being friends with. Not the end of the world, as you will find good and valuable friends. Having said that, deep relationships take time. They don't happen overnight.

Third, have you even tried talking to your family? I would wager they think you are strong and happy, because the is what you project. And faking it is a good strategy, as your mind will follow. Nonetheless, maybe it's time to bare it all to your family. What's the worst that can happen?

Fourth, I'd also open up to this person you would go to. If she is as trustworthy and special as is implied, I'd like to think she's going to be helpful and non-judgmental. And if she is judgmental, then she isn't as special as you think.

Fifth, find another psychiatrist! Though take note psychiatrists are essentially brain doctors that fix with medicine. Maybe you need to find a better one AND supplement that with a good psychologist that you like and can relate to. At the end of the day, a good psychologist is going to give you great advice and be an excellent outlet for talking about the things that bother you.

You can do this, but it is going to require you to put one foot forward. You have a lot of things that need to be addressed, but manage it one small piece at a time.

And no need to apologize for venting. It's what we're here for!

 

[Windam]

Was feeling borderline suicidal last night. Tried crying myself to sleep but no tears or anything. Just ended up having a super terrible nap. Anyway, phone interview for a call centre booked. Three tutorial classes booked (for the English teacher thing), but one of them starts when my math lecture ends (Wed 10pm), so I'll probably skip the math lecture for it. :/ Going to a wedding reception later today. Time to drink my sorrows away (even though I shouldn't) and make myself feel worse afterwards!

 

[Wilsongt]

Right now I want to be weak. I want to be so weak that if someone touches me that I would fall to a million pieces.

But, I can't. I'm not allowed. I can't show any weakness to my friend who I emotionly rely upon sometimes because his partner is sick in the hospital. He can't help. I can't be weak with my friends. They'll just tell me to buckle down an prepare for my committee meeting Monday. I can't be weak in front of my committee. J have to fight to validate my academic existance...

I am this stupid fucking pile of weakness and I am not allowed to show it or reach out for help...

 

[Curtisaur]

I lost my job and am having a difficult time landing another one. It seems suicide is on my mind 24/7.

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

@wilsongt: but you do have a bachelor's degee then?
(I mean: that's something too)

 

[ClassyPenguin]

“Hard weather, says the old man. So let it be. Wrap me in the weathers of the earth, I will be hard and hard. My face will wash rain like the stones. ”
― Cormac McCarthy, Suttree

“Things happen to you they happen. They dont ask first. They dont require your permission.”
― Cormac McCarthy, No Country for Old Men

Not saying anything at all just wanted to share those awesome quotes.

 

[Curtisaur]

I've been awake for less than four hours and I want to go back to bed already.

"Sometimes I wake up wishing I could sleep for good
And if I had the guts to end it all, believe I would"
-Dizzee Rascal, "Do It"

 

[A Human Becoming]

Sometimes when someone is laughing at me or something I said not intended to be funny, I want to say "I don't appreciate you laughing at me."

I lost my job and am having a difficult time landing another one. It seems suicide is on my mind 24/7.

Were you laid off?

 

[Curtisaur]

Were you laid off?

It's complicated and somewhere in my severance agreement it says I'm not allowed to talk about it, I believe.

But, ultimately, I was done wrong I believe. The stigma around mental illness is extremely prevalent still.

 

[Colin.]

Sometimes when someone is laughing at me or something I said not intended to be funny, I want to say "I don't appreciate you laughing at me."

Why don't you? In those types of situations, you have to be firm with people. Let them know clearly that you don't appreciate their behavior towards you. Maybe it's the idea of confrontation, I don't like it at all either. But most of the time, we exaggerate the results of these encounters much more than the actual outcome. And if you don't, people will continue to treat you however they feel like, regardless of how you feel. Don't allow that to happen.

 

[Cameron122]

Do nothing tonight or hang out with a ladyfriend and her guy.

I don't like the girl beyond the friendship level but it may still be annoyin' -_-

 

[Darkmakaimura]

Do nothing tonight or hang out with a ladyfriend and her guy.

I don't like the girl beyond the friendship level but it may still be annoyin' -_-

Nothing really wrong with that unless you have feelings for her. I'd say if you're bored, go and hang out. I would so the same right now.

I'm going so stir crazy I'm really getting agitated right now. I tried to sneak off a text to my friend asking him an unrelated question hoping he would ask me if I wanted to go out tonight but nope, no luck. Feel like pathetic shit the last few days.

 

[Wilsongt]

@wilsongt: but you do have a bachelor's degee then?
(I mean: that's something too)

yeah, but it's really not anything to be proud of given the University I graduated from. I have a BS in Biology. Those are a dime a fucking dozen...

 

[ClassyPenguin]

yeah, but it's really not anything to be proud of given the University I graduated from. I have a BS in Biology. Those are a dime a fucking dozen...

Not really. It's still a pretty low percentage of the population with a degree and a science degree at that.

 

[Reeks]

Hi guys,

I was wondering if anyone has taken Zoloft for a long stretch of time and gotten off it. I was diagnosed with PTSD several years ago following a horrible incident that fucked me up pretty good. I started taking Zoloft and a suite of other drugs to help with panic attacks, insomnia and night terrors. Over the years, I have gone to therapy consistently and have slowly worked towards being able to avoid attacks. Last year I was able to stop taking all the drugs except for Zoloft (with the help of my therapist and psychiatrist of course).

So since things have been going pretty well (I haven't had a panic attack in over a year.. a couple sparse episodes, but no full-blown panic attacks that take me out of commission for days), I decided to stop. I have gained 25 pounds since taking Zoloft with a crazy appetite that could never be assuaged. Moreover, I started to feel detached from the world with little emotion. So a few months ago I started weaning off of Zoloft, which in itself was incredibly difficult. The withdraw symptoms were so severe and I felt really afraid that they would never go away. It's been about a month since I've stopped taking it. The withdraw symptoms finally subsided but now I feel like a new set of issues have arisen. I am extremely fatigued ALL-THE-TIME. I can sleep more than 12 hours a night and then take a nap for hours the following day, no problem. I have intense body aches that remind me of when I had mono way back in high school... feel like I physically have no energy. While this is really interfering with my drive at work, the worst thing I've noticed is that I cannot concentrate or retain information. I feel very clouded and am not sure what to make of it. I have no motivation and cannot focus when I do. I'm in the middle of taking my qualifying exams in graduate school and am afraid that I already bombed the first two. I have been really irritable as well, which isn't too surprising or problematic, just annoying. I guess I'm just wondering if there are long lasting changes if you stop taking Zoloft after several years. Initially, I was excited about "feeling" again but that seems to have been eclipsed by a steep loss in energy. I'm wondering if stopping the medication was premature. I really don't want to take it again, especially since weaning off was so difficult. Also, my therapist just had a baby and is taking a leave of absence. I know I need to go talk to her replacement but am not excited about seeing someone I don't know well. I have had problems in the past with therapists passing me to other people and just don't want to deal with it again right now. I've read some forums that helped me out while I was weaning off. But I can't seem to find any accounts of people >1month after stopping the med and if anyone feels like I do.

Anyways, can anyone offer me advice from personal experience of getting off of Zoloft? Will I regain at least semi-normal energy levels? Will my focus come back?

 

[jb1234]

The withdraw symptoms finally subsided but now I feel like a new set of issues have arisen. I am extremely fatigued ALL-THE-TIME. I can sleep more than 12 hours a night and then take a nap for hours the following day, no problem. I have intense body aches that remind me of when I had mono way back in high school... feel like I physically have no energy. While this is really interfering with my drive at work, the worst thing I've noticed is that I cannot concentrate or retain information. I feel very clouded and am not sure what to make of it. I have no motivation and cannot focus when I do. I'm in the middle of taking my qualifying exams in graduate school and am afraid that I already bombed the first two. I have been really irritable as well, which isn't too surprising or problematic, just annoying. I guess I'm just wondering if there are long lasting changes if you stop taking Zoloft after several years. Initially, I was excited about "feeling" again but that seems to have been eclipsed by a steep loss in energy. I'm wondering if stopping the medication was premature. I really don't want to take it again, especially since weaning off was so difficult. Also, my therapist just had a baby and is taking a leave of absence. I know I need to go talk to her replacement but am not excited about seeing someone I don't know well. I have had problems in the past with therapists passing me to other people and just don't want to deal with it again right now. I've read some forums that helped me out while I was weaning off. But I can't seem to find any accounts of people >1month after stopping the med and if anyone feels like I do.

Anyways, can anyone offer me advice from personal experience of getting off of Zoloft? Will I regain at least semi-normal energy levels? Will my focus come back?

Go to a doctor immediately and get tests done. This sounds like something else entirely.

 

[Reeks]

Go to a doctor immediately and get tests done. This sounds like something else entirely.

I went to the doctor a couple weeks ago and everything, leave a high white blood count, came back normal :/.

 

[jb1234]

I went to the doctor a couple weeks ago and everything, leave a high white blood count, came back normal :/.

Odd. Did you get full blood work done, to rule out rheumatic diseases and other fun things?

 

[Reeks]

Odd. Did you get full blood work done, to rule out rheumatic diseases and other fun things?

Yes. The only other thing I can think of is that my blood pressure was pretty low (not a runner).

 

[Cameron122]

Well I went out with that couple I mentioned, they invited two more people, who were also a doting couple

-_-

 

[ClassyPenguin]

Yes. The only other thing I can think of is that my blood pressure was pretty low (not a runner).

It could be definitely returning to your baseline, which if depressed is kinda low. It could also be depression and stress symptoms as well. There doesn't seem to be long-term withdrawal issues with anti-depressants other than going back to a depressive state.

Try exercising, eating better and staying away from alcohol and drugs and get to a psychiatrist when you can.

 

[jb1234]

It could be definitely returning to your baseline, which if depressed is kinda low. It could also be depression and stress symptoms as well. There doesn't seem to be long-term withdrawal issues with anti-depressants other than going back to a depressive state.

Try exercising, eating better and staying away from alcohol and drugs and get to a psychiatrist when you can.

What worries me about his symptoms are the body aches, which he describes as intense. That doesn't strike me as something that could be caused by an anti-depressant. How would you describe this pain, Reeks? Does it move around? Is it constant? Worse in the morning? Night?

 

[Brawndo Addict]

This is more of a forced journal to ensure I have a public written record of how bad it got so that I can't justify ignoring the problem again, as opposed to a normal post where I would be more concerned about dialogue and replies with others. Also I'll be unavailable over the next day or so, so I wouldn't be available anyway. That's not to say I won't read any responses or reply when I have the chance though.

Ironically, one of my first posts on GAF was complaining about suicide/depression threads. I suppose in part because I found the internet to be harmful rather than helpful during my own suicidal depression earlier in my life, that I had no faith in its ability to provide help for others and believed others needed to seek assistance in the same "real" ways I did. But since getting an account and paying more attention to GAF communities such as this and individual members, I've turned around on my assessment and can now appreciate the benefits it can offers. It still has problems, both serious and minor, but so does any type of help, "virtual" or not.

It's become clear to me that I have not merely hit a temporary rough patch, but have instead fallen into another cycle of depression. This is probably the 5th or 6th time in two weeks that I've had a debilitating anxiety attack that left me unable to sleep and vomiting in the bathroom. Having one or two every three to four weeks would be a more normal rate of occurrence, and they would rarely rise to the level of vomiting. I've found my thinking patterns during these attacks and during normal hours to be more negative and self-destructive as well. The feedback loop appears to have become self-sustaining and the threshold for what can constitute a trigger has fallen dramatically. The damage has begun impacting my regular life and its not restricted to moments of isolation where I can hide it away.

I want it to be just a small thing that will go away, I don't want to feel like I've stepped backwards, but I can't keep trying to rationalize the truth away. I have relapsed so to speak and I need to get back on the very involved regimens I was on in the beginning.

The primary drivers are the return of my death anxiety and apocalyptic thinking. I have little to no hope that human civilization will not collapse in the near future, which then sparks existential angst about the demise of humanity and my own consciousness. I try to get away from this by ignore everything related to climate change or resource depletion, etc, but there are too many triggers I cannot always avoid.

I try to compensate through a forced 'live in the now' approach, which helps to a degree; living in constant fear and anxiety is like dying every day and you cannot survive like that long-term. The problem is this causes even more philosophical angst because I believe this same hedonistic coping mechanism justifies the same behavior that causes humanity to allow climate change to go unimpeded, or for amoral rapists to think nothing they do is wrong, or for nihilistic or fatalistic thinking to take hold. And then that jump-starts the death anxiety and apocalyptic thinking again which puts me back on a self-destructive path.

I had hoped this was just a really bad incident and that things would quickly get back to 'normal'. Well, as normal as things can be once you've 'recovered'. But I think I've lost the sense of normalcy I worked so hard to earn back. I have not been so fatalistic/nihilistic in years and my death anxiety is back in full force, compounded by my bleak outlook for the future of human civilization, which I used to be able to ignore and keep locked up. I don't even know what sparked this to occur, things just suddenly spiraled out of control and I find myself unable to get away from the prison of my mind even though I know it's suffocating me.

I used to be able to resolve my recurring but sporadic low/mid intensity attacks, but now the knowledge that thinking more about death or extinction only makes things worse seems useless. I can't buy into it anymore; I keep trying to punish myself by linking the avoidant behavior or 'live in the now' with the very death anxiety and apocalyptic thinking that causes me so much pain the first place. That seems to indicate I've entered into a self-destructive cycle and need to get back on medication and therapy.

I'm so angry at myself because every time I wake up I feel good enough that I can convince myself not to seek help, it wasn't as bad as the original crisis, I can deal with it on my own. So I had to write this because I'm tired of fucking myself over. My tendency to get obsessive over my GAF posts and my 'record' should serve as an excellent medium to strike back. I can't ignore the reality of what I've just recorded in the heat of an episode, and I should be able to keep looking back at this as a motivator to take decisive action.

 

[Femmeworth]

I don't know what I'm going to do. This semester is going to be really tough unless I can get my motivation in check. I've had 1.5 weeks of classes and I already feel like I'm falling behind. My current behavioral profile, for a lack of a better term, will be sufficient for two of my classes. It's not going to cut it for the other two. I wish I could just flip a switch and focus on schoolwork.

 

[Flo]

This is more of a forced journal to ensure I have a public written record of how bad it got so that I can't justify ignoring the problem again, as opposed to a normal post where I would be more concerned about dialogue and replies with others. Also I'll be unavailable over the next day or so, so I wouldn't be available anyway. That's not to say I won't read any responses or reply when I have the chance though.

Ironically, one of my first posts on GAF was complaining about suicide/depression threads. I suppose in part because I found the internet to be harmful rather than helpful during my own suicidal depression earlier in my life, that I had no faith in its ability to provide help for others and believed others needed to seek assistance in the same "real" ways I did. But since getting an account and paying more attention to GAF communities such as this and individual members, I've turned around on my assessment and can now appreciate the benefits it can offers. It still has problems, both serious and minor, but so does any type of help, "virtual" or not.

It's become clear to me that I have not merely hit a temporary rough patch, but have instead fallen into another cycle of depression. This is probably the 5th or 6th time in two weeks that I've had a debilitating anxiety attack that left me unable to sleep and vomiting in the bathroom. Having one or two every three to four weeks would be a more normal rate of occurrence, and they would rarely rise to the level of vomiting. I've found my thinking patterns during these attacks and during normal hours to be more negative and self-destructive as well. The feedback loop appears to have become self-sustaining and the threshold for what can constitute a trigger has fallen dramatically. The damage has begun impacting my regular life and its not restricted to moments of isolation where I can hide it away.

I want it to be just a small thing that will go away, I don't want to feel like I've stepped backwards, but I can't keep trying to rationalize the truth away. I have relapsed so to speak and I need to get back on the very involved regimens I was on in the beginning.

The primary drivers are the return of my death anxiety and apocalyptic thinking. I have little to no hope that human civilization will not collapse in the near future, which then sparks existential angst about the demise of humanity and my own consciousness. I try to get away from this by ignore everything related to climate change or resource depletion, etc, but there are too many triggers I cannot always avoid.

I try to compensate through a forced 'live in the now' approach, which helps to a degree; living in constant fear and anxiety is like dying every day and you cannot survive like that long-term. The problem is this causes even more philosophical angst because I believe this same hedonistic coping mechanism justifies the same behavior that causes humanity to allow climate change to go unimpeded, or for amoral rapists to think nothing they do is wrong, or for nihilistic or fatalistic thinking to take hold. And then that jump-starts the death anxiety and apocalyptic thinking again which puts me back on a self-destructive path.

I had hoped this was just a really bad incident and that things would quickly get back to 'normal'. Well, as normal as things can be once you've 'recovered'. But I think I've lost the sense of normalcy I worked so hard to earn back. I have not been so fatalistic/nihilistic in years and my death anxiety is back in full force, compounded by my bleak outlook for the future of human civilization, which I used to be able to ignore and keep locked up. I don't even know what sparked this to occur, things just suddenly spiraled out of control and I find myself unable to get away from the prison of my mind even though I know it's suffocating me.

I used to be able to resolve my recurring but sporadic low/mid intensity attacks, but now the knowledge that thinking more about death or extinction only makes things worse seems useless. I can't buy into it anymore; I keep trying to punish myself by linking the avoidant behavior or 'live in the now' with the very death anxiety and apocalyptic thinking that causes me so much pain the first place. That seems to indicate I've entered into a self-destructive cycle and need to get back on medication and therapy.

I'm so angry at myself because every time I wake up I feel good enough that I can convince myself not to seek help, it wasn't as bad as the original crisis, I can deal with it on my own. So I had to write this because I'm tired of fucking myself over. My tendency to get obsessive over my GAF posts and my 'record' should serve as an excellent medium to strike back. I can't ignore the reality of what I've just recorded in the heat of an episode, and I should be able to keep looking back at this as a motivator to take decisive action.

I hope this post helps you get the help you need. (And now that I quoted it, it's not going anywhere )

Reading about your fear of the end of the world made me realise that I have this too. I never think about it too much, because I know I'll go crazy. And like you I avoid certain types of news. Actually I haven't watched the news at all the last year, because I just can't handle it. I hope I can keep it tucked away. Although it might be smart to talk about it at therapy some time.
Do you have the feeling it works to just ignore the fear and anxiety?

 

[Darkwater]

*snip*

Sorry to hear this man, I too worry about stuff big and small but nowhere near to the extent you do. I just wanna say this: don't beat yourself up. For the longest time I tolerated no failure whatsoever in my life. I was always beating myself up over one thing or another. But sooner or later you realise that thinking like this does nothing to aid in doing things differently in the future. On the contrary, things are made worse! So try not to beat yourself up. Cut yourself some slack. This can be tricky, I know, but definitely worth the effort.

Also, definitely get help. Stay strong, Brawndo. You can always vent here.

EDIT:

Well, I thought the consequences were worth it, I dug her so much. In reality, I had no idea it was going to be like this.

No worries. Live & learn, right? Like I said, I have a colleague like this. Let me throw in another Dutch saying. "There's no better teacher than experience."

I appreciate the pep-talk, but I've just never understood this matter of "pride" and "honor." "When you've got nothing, you've got nothing to lose" echoes more for me.

Thing is, you do have something to lose. You just don't know it yet. I don't mean to be harsh, but it's downright undignified to keep coming crawling back to your ex as if she's your only hope for a good life. As if you can't make that happen for and by yourself. You're making it seem as though you're worth less than you really are. And you're not. You seem like a smart, friendly, wise, helpful guy. That's what I mean.

Don't get me wrong. I know the feel. Like you've lost everything worth getting out of bed for. Everything that gave you joy. Nothing else matters. I know the feel to a God damn T. That said, I understand why you're contacting your ex. I just don't condone it. Ah, but no worries. I have done and thought the exact same thing as you, in the past.

How old are you? I'm curious.

I'm trying, believe me. My counselor has been drilling it into my brain that I deserved better and that it is perfectly normal to expect the same treatment back as was given.

Give it time.

I keep all of that, but I have it stored in places I have to actively seek out. Which I've not done but once in three months.

I have to ask though. Why? Why would you keep this stuff? My first love (who used me), I wrote her a letter. Went over to her house and read it to her. It was one great big truth bomb. Afterwards, I kept my copies. Kept them for months in the attic. One day, though, a friend of a friend asked me "why don't you just get rid of it?" And right he was. Eventually, I lit the remaining copies on fire. Poof. No more. Like she never existed.

What a relief that was. Seriously.

I know it can be a big pill to swallow, but I definitely find it the way to go. The less reminding you of her, the better. And trust me, not having the things at all is better than having them locked away somewhere. They're still there. You need to make room in your mind and your life for the next good thing. Unequivocally nice things are an exception, of course. I still have the wall clock and the beard trimmer my ex gave me. And some cherished memories, of course (the bad ones I intend to forget as soon as possible). Aside from that: nothing. Even if she texts me or something, I delete that fucking horseshit as soon as I can.

Like with a lot of things: whenever you're ready. And if you even agree in the first place.

I look forward to this post!

Thanks man, it means a lot to me that you'd say that. I'll post my story today, porbably. And if I'm being too harsh in the reply I gave you here, please let me know. I try to fight my own depression & problems with a certain fiery passion. I'm just done with the way things have always gone for me, you know? But if this way of taking things on doesn't gel well for you (or anyone else), let me know. Really. I'd hate to make things worse for anyone.

Please, whatever you do, don't turn to alcohol and drugs during this tough time. Substances will only temporarily masking the pain, while conversely causing more problems.

Wisdom. Be strong everyone, especially when it comes to this.

 

[Flo]

No worries. Live & learn, right? Like I said, I have a colleague like this. Let me throw in another Dutch saying. "There's no better teacher than experience."

Is it me or are there quite a lot of Dutch people in this thread?

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

I guess I deal with all of those things by literally not thinking about it.

It may sound stupid, but I guess the paradox of being alive and knowing what that entails, is solved in "Portal 2 GlaDOS" style: Don't think about it, don't think about it, don't think about it, don't think about it.

The other part is that I can't do anything about it. Both in terms of my own mortality (which sucks and can't be changed) and the extended human habitat of the Earth's biosphere (which can be changed, it's just being changed in the wrong direction at this point). Dying is pretty much a given, so there really is no point for me to speed it up. I plan to be around as long as I can, not because I "still got things to do", but because I'm me, and there is nothing else I can be or should want to be (in terms of objects, not subjective categories).

One more thing is that there is no way to make the logical statement: I don't exist. This statement is one of those paradoxes that leads to absurdity (in the logic sense). I know it's a bit of a stretch, but that gives some sort of base to me. And an appreciation of the sheer amount of mental work that someone has to go through to get this false statement into one's mind. Not saying that to be a cunt, but debasing oneself (or others) is a process to justify killing "it". Both in terms of suicide (self) and the social version of genocide (others). And knowing the process is, to me anyway, a way to actively avert going into it. But then I have a much higher 'baseline' in terms of happiness than most people in this thread. I can't say that I am happy or anything, but I'm not severely depressed or suicidal either. And I believe that achieving happiness in activities of self-expression is possible. (funny thing is that writing like this is part of that)


but, for those interested, there is philosophical exercise in this existential 'not being' reasoning available in Better Never to Have Been, which assumes the logical position of "not existing" to be a paradox and takes it from there.

The opposite of that, but from the point of art and not logical argumentation, would be The Conspiracy against humanity

That second one is by a horror writer though, so he has some existential problems with the whole idea of "yay, life!" anyway.

Also, the argument of debasement and genocide is from Hannah Arendt's "the origins of totalitarianism". On debasing in general there is "less than human".

/ random thoughts


@Flo: we zijn overgepresenteerd in zowel online aanwezigheid (alleen japan heeft een hoger percentage internet aansluiting per huishouden) als in depressie statistieken.

 

[Flo]

@Flo: we zijn overgepresenteerd in zowel online aanwezigheid (alleen japan heeft een hoger percentage internet aansluiting per huishouden) als in depressie statistieken.

Yay! What do you think is the cause? Good thing we have decent healthcare...

 

[FillerB]

Yay! What do you think is the cause? Good thing we have decent healthcare...

Population density is the only thing that I can think of. We (another Dutchie here) are one of the most densely populated countries in the world.

24. Netherlands 497 pop/km2
38. Japan 337 pop/km2
51. United Kingdom 262 pop/km2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...d_dependent_territories_by_population_density

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

Yay! What do you think is the cause? Good thing we have decent healthcare...

No idea really. Maybe we're just like that.

 

[Darkwater]

Didn't realize there were so many Dutch in this topic! Suddenly my 'Dutch speakwords' feel less special. So where do all us Dutch headcases live at, then? I'm in Zwolle.

 

[PowderedToast]

hey all

i'll try to be concise about my case. i've suffered from anxiety all my life, fear of natural disasters, death, social situations, all that stuff.

i started having my worst episode around june. lots of panic attacks centered around a fear of dying. since then i've been on propranolol betablockers most of the time and have been seeing a therapist. she's helped me, but i'm still struggling. she thinks that many of my thought patterns are born from me trying to rationalize my existence and my place in the world. i've been through an existential episode centered around the cosmos, read about philosophy, ontology, time, all that stuff. then i moved onto the aspects of life that are actually based on empirical knowledge, stuff that can be measured. largely, the nature of animals on earth, including us and how we relate to it all. the morality of our actions, what morality and ethics actually are, the concepts of good and evil, and most recently the psychology behind interactions.

i'm making progress in the sense that i'm moving and changing subjects. basically re-contextualising my whole life, for whatever reason i've needed to do this - perhaps i was too coddled as a child. i'm relatively good looking and despite anxiety all my life i've never had it too hard. people generally like me. but that's just it, how good looking people have a natural advantage in every situation doesn't seem fair. i am riddled with disgust towards nature. the world just seems so fucked. how we slaughter countless animals for food, have sections of the population starving, consumer culture (which i'm very much a part of). i recognised that anything i do is causing other people and other creatures to suffer.

my therapist also thinks that i have a guilt complex, and take on guilt for many things that are out of my control. but i feel fundamentally out of alignment w/ life and how everything functions. i know that life is all about perspective (i used to have a relatively positive one). but the more i think the worse it gets. i am frightened and disgusted with the nature right now, and if it can be fixed - is that right? i can recognise that my perspective is abnormal because i've been suicidal, and i know for sure that is against my instincts. but does that mean i'm wrong? that's me over thinking things again.

i have had some positive tips that've helped me. for example, not looking at life through the lense of good and evil but simply as a neutral state. animals living and dying, transience, that just is. and thus it is neutral. that helps, but doesn't give me all the answers, nor has it completely realigned my thinking.

maybe i just need someone to come up with a case of nature being awesome and that will help. i don't know. any advice would be good. thanks everyone.

 

[A Human Becoming]

Why don't you? In those types of situations, you have to be firm with people. Let them know clearly that you don't appreciate their behavior towards you. Maybe it's the idea of confrontation, I don't like it at all either. But most of the time, we exaggerate the results of these encounters much more than the actual outcome. And if you don't, people will continue to treat you however they feel like, regardless of how you feel. Don't allow that to happen.

When I was younger I was told I was too sensitive. It's difficult for me tell people when they've done something that bothered me.

I also look at it from the perspective that I shouldn't care what people say or think about me. Shouldn't.

 

[Colin.]

When I was younger I was told I was too sensitive. It's difficult for me tell people when they've done something that bothered me.

I also look at it from the perspective that I shouldn't care what people say or think about me. Shouldn't.

Doesn't really matter what other people told you. It is about how YOU feel about others actions towards you. I've had people try to downplay their actions, when there was no good intent coming from them at all. I can't say a great deal without knowing the circumstances. But take those scenarios were you felt disrespected, and try to break it down logically in your mind. Who they are to you, how they normally behave, and how they treat others in comparison. It can serve well to prevent the same situation from repeating itself, as you will be able to read the situation better.

 

[Xun]

I just booked a quick trip to Berlin in October for a few days.

It'll be the first time I'm flying somewhere on my own, so I'm pretty nervous, but I hope it'll help install some independence and confidence into me. I'm meeting a couple of friends out there, someone I know who lives in Berlin, and my oldest friend who is traveling Europe for a bit.

In other news I haven't done that much portfolio work this weekend, and the thought of once again going through 5 days of a job I dislike is unsettling. They're nice enough guys (sometimes), but it's just so routine and not in a field I wish to remain in. I want to be doing something creative, but another part of the problem is I'm not sure which area is feasible for me anymore. I'm more confused than ever when it comes to what I want to do in life.

I want to do animation (what I studied), art, music, photography, graphic design, film, amongst other things. I just don't know where to begin, and I just lack so much motivation. If I take the animation root like I intended I was considering in taking a few classes in an online animation school to further my skills. The problem is the animation industry is frankly pathetic in the UK, and I'm not ready to move abroad just yet for a variety of reasons.

I'm just so confused with it all.

 

[Windam]

Ugh fuck my life. Probably just lost an opportunity.

 

[ClassyPenguin]

Ugh fuck my life. Probably just lost an opportunity.

If I had a dollar of how many opportunities I've missed. I'd be able to buy a six pack of decent stout.

The challenge is to not dwell but to take the next opportunity by the balls.

 

[AcridMeat]

I just booked a quick trip to Berlin in October for a few days.

It'll be the first time I'm flying somewhere on my own, so I'm pretty nervous, but I hope it'll help install some independence and confidence into me. I'm meeting a couple of friends out there, someone I know who lives in Berlin, and my oldest friend who is traveling Europe for a bit.

In other news I haven't done that much portfolio work this weekend, and the thought of once again going through 5 days of a job I dislike is unsettling. They're nice enough guys (sometimes), but it's just so routine and not in a field I wish to remain in. I want to be doing something creative, but another part of the problem is I'm not sure which area is feasible for me anymore. I'm more confused than ever when it comes to what I want to do in life.

I want to do animation (what I studied), art, music, photography, graphic design, film, amongst other things. I just don't know where to begin, and I just lack so much motivation. If I take the animation root like I intended I was considering in taking a few classes in an online animation school to further my skills. The problem is the animation industry is frankly pathetic in the UK, and I'm not ready to move abroad just yet for a variety of reasons.

I'm just so confused with it all.

First off, I'm glad you're going on that trip. It should do you a lot of good.

The bolded part onward, is exactly what I'm going through. So many things I'm interested in doing, it's a matter of getting traction and motivation to do it. It's all confusing, and unknowns, but up to a point that's okay. Seems everyone I talk to who do something they love fell into it from an opportunity that cropped up. What you can do as a person is make sure you put yourself out there, to have a better chance at those opportunities presenting themselves.

 

[Cameron122]

Ugh fuck my life. Probably just lost an opportunity.

That feel

 

[Femmeworth]

It shouldn't be this fucking hard to write a simple paper like this. Even my dad is trying to help me write it, which just makes me feel worse. Fuck.

 

[Pau]

It shouldn't be this fucking hard to write a simple paper like this. Even my dad is trying to help me write it, which just makes me feel worse. Fuck.

Sometimes simple papers can be hard to write because you tend to over think things. (My sister's going through the same thing in the next room, actually.) It's a frustrating feeling, I know. If it'd make you feel better to have someone besides your dad help out, let me know.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

Ugh fuck my life. Probably just lost an opportunity.

Been there way too many times.

Any chance you still have it?

Any advice for sleep? I popped a few Atenolol capsules due to helping with the physical symptoms of anxiety. Gonna take about four or five sleeping pills (diphenhydramine) tonight too.

 

[ClassyPenguin]

It shouldn't be this fucking hard to write a simple paper like this. Even my dad is trying to help me write it, which just makes me feel worse. Fuck.

I know that feeling. Fucked up my last two quarters of college.

Sometimes writing it on paper actually helps.

 

[ClassyPenguin]

Been there way too many times.

Any chance you still have it?

Any advice for sleep? I popped a few Atenolol capsules due to helping with the physical symptoms of anxiety. Gonna take about four or five sleeping pills (diphenhydramine) tonight too.

Keep to the dose on the box, don't mix those two together. Follow your physician's instructions.

Try sleep hygiene habits.

 

[MikeDip]

I know that feeling. Fucked up my last two quarters of college.

Sometimes writing it on paper actually helps.

Yeah, what helped me write papers was physically writing out an outline with every single point I wanted to make in point form on a real piece of paper. Then when it came to actually writing it on the computer I just needed to put it all together.

 

[Brawndo Addict]

I hope this post helps you get the help you need. (And now that I quoted it, it's not going anywhere )

Reading about your fear of the end of the world made me realise that I have this too. I never think about it too much, because I know I'll go crazy. And like you I avoid certain types of news. Actually I haven't watched the news at all the last year, because I just can't handle it. I hope I can keep it tucked away. Although it might be smart to talk about it at therapy some time.
Do you have the feeling it works to just ignore the fear and anxiety?

I really appreciate the quote as one of my first impulses when I woke up was a desire to delete the post and try to hide everything away. I realized I forgot to ask someone to quote it so I was very thankful to see someone did so anyway. As for trying to deal with the fear/anxiety with avoidance, it was an important part of the process in my original therapy, but that was tempered by an understanding that I still needed to develop active coping/defensive mechanisms. I had to rewire my default chain of thinking so that I could be exposed to triggers without getting sucked into the vortex of despair. Otherwise I would be too dependent on external conditions I couldn't control and a regular life means that I will get exposed to triggers, so I wanted to be strong enough to acknowledge and reject them.

hey all

i'll try to be concise about my case. i've suffered from anxiety all my life, fear of natural disasters, death, social situations, all that stuff.

i started having my worst episode around june. lots of panic attacks centered around a fear of dying. since then i've been on propranolol betablockers most of the time and have been seeing a therapist. she's helped me, but i'm still struggling. she thinks that many of my thought patterns are born from me trying to rationalize my existence and my place in the world. i've been through an existential episode centered around the cosmos, read about philosophy, ontology, time, all that stuff. then i moved onto the aspects of life that are actually based on empirical knowledge, stuff that can be measured. largely, the nature of animals on earth, including us and how we relate to it all. the morality of our actions, what morality and ethics actually are, the concepts of good and evil, and most recently the psychology behind interactions.

i'm making progress in the sense that i'm moving and changing subjects. basically re-contextualising my whole life, for whatever reason i've needed to do this - perhaps i was too coddled as a child. i'm relatively good looking and despite anxiety all my life i've never had it too hard. people generally like me. but that's just it, how good looking people have a natural advantage in every situation doesn't seem fair. i am riddled with disgust towards nature. the world just seems so fucked. how we slaughter countless animals for food, have sections of the population starving, consumer culture (which i'm very much a part of). i recognised that anything i do is causing other people and other creatures to suffer.

my therapist also thinks that i have a guilt complex, and take on guilt for many things that are out of my control. but i feel fundamentally out of alignment w/ life and how everything functions. i know that life is all about perspective (i used to have a relatively positive one). but the more i think the worse it gets. i am frightened and disgusted with the nature right now, and if it can be fixed - is that right? i can recognise that my perspective is abnormal because i've been suicidal, and i know for sure that is against my instincts. but does that mean i'm wrong? that's me over thinking things again.

i have had some positive tips that've helped me. for example, not looking at life through the lense of good and evil but simply as a neutral state. animals living and dying, transience, that just is. and thus it is neutral. that helps, but doesn't give me all the answers, nor has it completely realigned my thinking.

maybe i just need someone to come up with a case of nature being awesome and that will help. i don't know. any advice would be good. thanks everyone.

I see enough of myself in your description that I'll share a bit about my therapy in case it helps in some way. One of the hardest things I had to accept was that I had a guilt-complex and that it helped to fuel some of my self-destructive tendencies. For example, I lost a lot of weight during my depression because I had no appetite and eating felt pointless. I would try to force it down, but that would often lead me to vomit (anxiety attacks also caused me to vomit). But I also got a bizarre kind of pleasure out of it, because I felt like my suffering somehow compensated a bit for my privileged first world existence. When people remarked how worried they were about my weight loss, it would make me feel better, not worse. It felt like proof I was truly suffering, and I had to suffer because of how good my life was compared to the third world.

I did not want to admit it for a long time, but I was being masochistic and guilt was the tool; I would even intentionally make anxiety attacks I was coping with worse so that I would vomit. It's hard to recall and explain the motivations precisely. I was suffering, but it was self serving suffering motivated by my own desires, I wasn't actually suffering for the third world. Why would anyone there know or care that I didn't eat that day or that I threw up my last meal? It didn't change or affect anything or anyone except for my life (and others in it). "Real" guilt corresponds with corrective action, not self-flagellation.

The problem is there's no one to apologize to nor is there any true absolution for inequality; there's nothing I can correct, it's just the way things are. Knowing I couldn't impact the dynamics of global inequality, I had to decide how I wanted to react, do I not deserve to live at all or do I accept reality and move on? If I truly felt first world existence was immoral or unjustifiable, then I should kill myself or move to the third world, but self-harm and masochistic guilt was not an honest response. That was my attempt to have both slices of the pie, to live in the first world because I 'bought' in through suffering.

That also tied into a lot of my high concept philosophical thinking that was just self-harmful and truly pointless. What was the point of getting into those weeds if it was only going to hurt me? I felt some duty to 'honesty', that ignoring these "truths" was wrong and I had to confront them, no matter the pain and suffering it caused me and those I had relationships with. Giving up 'big' philosophy was one of the most important things I had to do to survive and I still struggle with it. But for me, continuing down that road was a dead end, I wanted to live, not to live like I was dying. I have not cracked open a philosophy book in many years and I am the better for it. I don't want to imply that I got better simply through self-realizations or appraisals though. They were necessary steps in my recovery but not sufficient by any stretch. True recovery meant extensive training to rewire my thinking and behavior from default negative to default positive, simple and cliched it may be.

Finally, I would say that although I am not a Buddhist, I identify with a lot of Buddhist teaching which I find to be a realistic and practical appraisal of human experience. I went to Jesuit schools but had a Buddhist relative, though I would not claim to have more than a passing knowledge. Although the Jesuits helped strengthen and affirm my thirst for justice, Buddhism helped me realize that kind of thirst (tanh&#257 is itself a source of suffering. A desire for answers, for purpose, for identity, for justice, all these kinds of cravings are a well of suffering; they are a black hole of need that you will never be able to truly satisfy, because it is the continued existence of the need itself that is the problem, not a perceived lack of solutions or answers which can only ever offer temporary relief. An unyielding desire to be happy can be just as harmful as an unyielding desire to not be sad. It's a very different way of thinking compared to Western tradition, and I have found it helpful in getting away from the existential angst that Western philosophy tends to create.