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[Roto13]

The controls change enough from game to game to make it a little tough to adjust each time, but yeah, "clunky" they aren't.

 

[EatChildren]

My copy arrived a couple of weeks ago. Been awhile since I've played MGS2. Appreciating it a wee bit more than I did way back when, but I'm instantly reminded how low it ranks on my list of favourite Metal Gear anythings. The characters, the setting, the mechanics: everything. It's like a shitty in between of MGS's awesome and MGS3's awesome.

I enjoy the core mechanics but, unlike the original MGS, KojiPro made no fucking effort to properly communicate the visual range of guards, paths through levels, and size of environments. The amount of times I've been spotted by eagle eye guards with no real knowledge of how is insane. The conveyor belt box room from the first cell is a good example of really bad visual feedback of how/where enemies can spot you.

It's just not a very fun game to play, for me, compared to the tighter, more interesting design of MGS and MGS3. Not that MGS is anything special from how the series evolved, but it worked really well. MGS2 is just so...dull.

 

[InfiniteNine]

MGS2 is my favorite. >:

 

[EatChildren]

MGS2 is my favorite. >:

That's okay. I'm a life long MGS2 troll.

 

[Naked Snake]

My copy arrived a couple of weeks ago. Been awhile since I've played MGS2. Appreciating it a wee bit more than I did way back when, but I'm instantly reminded how low it ranks on my list of favourite Metal Gear anythings. The characters, the setting, the mechanics: everything. It's like a shitty in between of MGS's awesome and MGS3's awesome.

I enjoy the core mechanics but, unlike the original MGS, KojiPro made no fucking effort to properly communicate the visual range of guards, paths through levels, and size of environments. The amount of times I've been spotted by eagle eye guards with no real knowledge of how is insane. The conveyor belt box room from the first cell is a good example of really bad visual feedback of how/where enemies can spot you.

It's just not a very fun game to play, for me, compared to the tighter, more interesting design of MGS and MGS3. Not that MGS is anything special from how the series evolved, but it worked really well. MGS2 is just so...dull.

I don't like you anymore

Spoiler

j.k. <3

I used to go into first-person view mode all the fucking time in MGS2, like every few steps, in order to get a handle on where enemies are, etc. One might argue that's a shitty way to play, or it breaks immersion or whatever, but for me it actually enhanced the immersion. I loved looking around the environments in fluid 60fps first person, surveying my surroundings, noticing the environmental sounds (which change in first person), it enhanced the feeling of "being there".

 

[Cyborg]

Played MGS2 when it came out and hated it. Never touched it again. But played it again in HD and loved it. It still isnt good as MGS1 and 3 but it grows on you.

 

[EatChildren]

Credits rolled on my MGS2 replay ten minutes ago, and I can say it was an interesting experience. On one hand, I have a better appreciation of what Sons of Liberty accomplished, and its overall vision. But on the other hand I'm reminded why it's a clear inferior to both Metal Gear Solid and Metal Gear Solid 2.

One of the more interesting observations of the mechanics is how it's a clear inbetween of MGS and MGS3 in terms of navigating 3D environments. It's kinda funny, really, but MGS2 environment navigation is almost entirely digital in layout. You can make your way through a vast majority of the game with ease without ever using the control stick to move Raiden or Snake. You can see it in the environment layout and locked camera perspective. Almost every environment is based on eight axis of movement. MGS2 only really uses pure analogue 3D functions for aiming your weapon, which is essential for some fights and encounters. But actual puzzling and navigation, it's not much of a step over the original. I'd go as far as to say KojiPro never properly realised full 3D game design in their levels until Metal Gear Solid 3, and even though it didn't come to fruition until Subsistence ditched the archaic locked camera perspective. Aiming excluded, MGS2 feels like a souped up digital MGS, which by extension is souped up version of the very original games.

But I don't consider that a negative, just an observation. Otherwise the game is pretty well paced, and makes good use of both the Tanker and Big Shell environments for a variety of objectives. Stuff like the bomb defusal, swimming, and disguising don't drag on too long but inject some good variety into the game design. Defusing bombs and disguising in particular synchronise well with the stealth mechanics. The game definitely has some rougher areas though, usually some poorly conceived extension of basic mechanics resulting in tedium and frustration. Defending Emma on the walkways with the sniper rifle, which is bizarrely over sensitive and laggy to control, is a good example. As is the final Ray fight(s), where rapidly switching between the stinger, chaff grenades, and sword (or unarmed) does not feel good given how the game pauses whenever you switch. Sword also really isn't satisfying to use. A lot of the fights and puzzles also aren't designed in a way where you can instantly or patiently apply your application of skills and equipment to succeed, but instead need to do a little trial and error. Again, the Ray fights are a bit of a pain until you "get" the best way to play. Navigating the box processing room is a good example of weird level layout clashing with mechanics. The hyper responsive enemies can spot you so quickly and occasionally in areas where you're absolutely totally convinced nobody can see you. During the sequence after the Harrier fight, where you must navigate the outside of Big Shell, I was spotted by a guard on a nearby raised walkway while hugging a specifically placed barrier. I thought it made no sense, convinced I was hidden, and the suspicion was confirmed when I went first person and not even Raiden could see the guard who spotted him. Aka, the guard somehow saw through the wall or whatever. Weird inconsistencies like this in the hyper reactive really are bona fide bullshit, and happened a good few times throughout. Only on Normal too.

That being said, it's really clear how big of a step up in the formal MGS2 is over MGS. Unlike Silicon Knights poor meshing of MGS2's mechanics into MGS design in Twin Snakes, MGS2 actually does make very good use of all the tools you have, as well as the world interaction. The stealth mechanics have a far wider and logically applicable scope, as do the engagements and the ways you can deal with them. It's a big game.

Story I appreciated more on this playthrough as, after playing it years ago as well as now having played MGS4, you can see all the pieces fall together. It's less one big clusterfuck of confusing slosh thrown at the player. Kojima's prose is awful. He's like an old person telling a story, where somehow a simple, interesting little thing blows up into a convoluted long winded mesh of tangents that end up making the simple thing hard to understand. MGS2 has a lot of that. Many of the twists are okay and would be easier to follow if he didn't feel the need to waffle on tangents. I really love the theme of information control, and the way certain elements are handled in the narrative, such as the S3 program, Arsenal Gear, Solidus' plan, and hell even the Patriots themselves, in theory come together pretty well. There's good framework for a modern cyberpunk conspiracy story. But it just goes to complete shit every now and them, especially during the very final moments of the game. Kojima takes shit too far. Like, a good twist, even if it's a cheesy one, is about leading the viewer/reader/player on for an extended period of time, then confronting them with the big reveal. When MGS2 does this, it's good fun. Kojima unfortunately insists on doing the "im telling you something new. okay now im telling you that was a lie. lololol" thing, where instead of nurturing false leads and rooting them in the narrative he will literally write some new bullshit and disregard that bullshit ten minutes later. Character says something, it's new and surprising. Literally five, ten minutes later that information turns out to be a lie, trick, or whatever. It's too much, and when you abuse the concept of the twist the twists themselves (even the good ones) lose impact as the viewer/gamer can no longer be lured into a false sense of security and knowledge. It's a tired horse to beat, because Kojima has only gotten worse over the years, MGS4 being a prime example of not learning from, or caring about, past mistakes. But at least, from memory, he reigns it in a bit with MGS3.

Regardless of my complaints, I'm glad I went through the game again. The little details, the silliness of the plot, and the scope of the project make it an interesting bullet point in the PS2/GCN/Xbox generation history, as well as KojiPro's. Especially when you compare it to Metal Gear Solid.

Next up, Snake Eater.

 

[AEREC]

Credits rolled on my MGS2 replay ten minutes ago, and I can say it was an interesting experience. On one hand, I have a better appreciation of what Sons of Liberty accomplished, and its overall vision. But on the other hand I'm reminded why it's a clear inferior to both Metal Gear Solid and Metal Gear Solid 2.

One of the more interesting observations of the mechanics is how it's a clear inbetween of MGS and MGS3 in terms of navigating 3D environments. It's kinda funny, really, but MGS2 environment navigation is almost entirely digital in layout. You can make your way through a vast majority of the game with ease without ever using the control stick to move Raiden or Snake. You can see it in the environment layout and locked camera perspective. Almost every environment is based on eight axis of movement. MGS2 only really uses pure analogue 3D functions for aiming your weapon, which is essential for some fights and encounters. But actual puzzling and navigation, it's not much of a step over the original. I'd go as far as to say KojiPro never properly realised full 3D game design in their levels until Metal Gear Solid 3, and even though it didn't come to fruition until Subsistence ditched the archaic locked camera perspective. Aiming excluded, MGS2 feels like a souped up digital MGS, which by extension is souped up version of the very original games.

But I don't consider that a negative, just an observation. Otherwise the game is pretty well paced, and makes good use of both the Tanker and Big Shell environments for a variety of objectives. Stuff like the bomb defusal, swimming, and disguising don't drag on too long but inject some good variety into the game design. Defusing bombs and disguising in particular synchronise well with the stealth mechanics. The game definitely has some rougher areas though, usually some poorly conceived extension of basic mechanics resulting in tedium and frustration. Defending Emma on the walkways with the sniper rifle, which is bizarrely over sensitive and laggy to control, is a good example. As is the final Ray fight(s), where rapidly switching between the stinger, chaff grenades, and sword (or unarmed) does not feel good given how the game pauses whenever you switch. Sword also really isn't satisfying to use. A lot of the fights and puzzles also aren't designed in a way where you can instantly or patiently apply your application of skills and equipment to succeed, but instead need to do a little trial and error. Again, the Ray fights are a bit of a pain until you "get" the best way to play. Navigating the box processing room is a good example of weird level layout clashing with mechanics. The hyper responsive enemies can spot you so quickly and occasionally in areas where you're absolutely totally convinced nobody can see you. During the sequence after the Harrier fight, where you must navigate the outside of Big Shell, I was spotted by a guard on a nearby raised walkway while hugging a specifically placed barrier. I thought it made no sense, convinced I was hidden, and the suspicion was confirmed when I went first person and not even Raiden could see the guard who spotted him. Aka, the guard somehow saw through the wall or whatever. Weird inconsistencies like this in the hyper reactive really are bona fide bullshit, and happened a good few times throughout. Only on Normal too.

That being said, it's really clear how big of a step up in the formal MGS2 is over MGS. Unlike Silicon Knights poor meshing of MGS2's mechanics into MGS design in Twin Snakes, MGS2 actually does make very good use of all the tools you have, as well as the world interaction. The stealth mechanics have a far wider and logically applicable scope, as do the engagements and the ways you can deal with them. It's a big game.

Story I appreciated more on this playthrough as, after playing it years ago as well as now having played MGS4, you can see all the pieces fall together. It's less one big clusterfuck of confusing slosh thrown at the player. Kojima's prose is awful. He's like an old person telling a story, where somehow a simple, interesting little thing blows up into a convoluted long winded mesh of tangents that end up making the simple thing hard to understand. MGS2 has a lot of that. Many of the twists are okay and would be easier to follow if he didn't feel the need to waffle on tangents. I really love the theme of information control, and the way certain elements are handled in the narrative, such as the S3 program, Arsenal Gear, Solidus' plan, and hell even the Patriots themselves, in theory come together pretty well. There's good framework for a modern cyberpunk conspiracy story. But it just goes to complete shit every now and them, especially during the very final moments of the game. Kojima takes shit too far. Like, a good twist, even if it's a cheesy one, is about leading the viewer/reader/player on for an extended period of time, then confronting them with the big reveal. When MGS2 does this, it's good fun. Kojima unfortunately insists on doing the "im telling you something new. okay now im telling you that was a lie. lololol" thing, where instead of nurturing false leads and rooting them in the narrative he will literally write some new bullshit and disregard that bullshit ten minutes later. Character says something, it's new and surprising. Literally five, ten minutes later that information turns out to be a lie, trick, or whatever. It's too much, and when you abuse the concept of the twist the twists themselves (even the good ones) lose impact as the viewer/gamer can no longer be lured into a false sense of security and knowledge. It's a tired horse to beat, because Kojima has only gotten worse over the years, MGS4 being a prime example of not learning from, or caring about, past mistakes. But at least, from memory, he reigns it in a bit with MGS3.

Regardless of my complaints, I'm glad I went through the game again. The little details, the silliness of the plot, and the scope of the project make it an interesting bullet point in the PS2/GCN/Xbox generation history, as well as KojiPro's. Especially when you compare it to Metal Gear Solid.

Next up, Snake Eater.

Been so long since I played MGS2...it was around the PS2 launch and I dont remember much of the story aside from being pissed that you play as solid snake very little in this game.

However Snake Eater is up there with Resident Evil 4 and Metroid Prime as one of the greatest games of that era.

Just started Peacewalker today, it's the only MGS I havent played.

 

[The Xtortionist]

edit - nvm

 

[EatChildren]

However Snake Eater is up there with Resident Evil 4 and Metroid Prime as one of the greatest games of that era.

Funnily enough, I just finished that game again today!
With MGS2 out of the way, I marathoned through Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater. Again, from the HD collection.

Replaying was a glorious experience. Just as MGS2 ensured me that my memories of a so-so experience weren't inaccurate, so too did Metal Gear Solid 3 remind why I love it so much. It stands up with the original Metal Gear Solid as an exceptionally refined and well paced experience that almost never lets itself go. The MGS series, on a mechanical level, often reminds me of a Grasshopper product. If Grasshopper had the budget and time that KojiPro had. And by this I mean as much as I enjoy the titles, I've never felt they were truly refined and tightly designed in mechanics. Certain elements of every single Metal Gear game feel a little bit rough and a little bit clumsy. It's not like, say...Bayonetta, Quake 3, Mario, Vanquish, and such, where a very refined and responsive set of skills are at the forefront of the experience. Sometimes in Metal Gear Solid you don't just have to learn what mechanics are available, but what any single situation is expecting you to do with those mechanics. This is the rougher side of Metal Gear: finding out how the game wants you to play, and doing so.

But Metal Gear Solid 3 does an exceptional job of keeping its core mechanics responsive and reliable throughout, giving you more of a sandbox playground feel to many of the encounters and level designs. It also has the same excellent quality of the most creative games, where the game almost never relies off stretches of repetitive gameplay and formula. Like Resident Evil 4, almost every single area, encounter, and set piece in MGS3 is designed in a way that makes it unique. This gives the game a feeling of tremendous scope, as you can never really relax into a single formula. Just as Resident Evil 4 seemed to throw one new idea after the other every time you turned a corner, so too does MGS3 retain fresh concepts, level design, and formula really from start to finish. Outside of maybe one or two set pieces, it never lingers on a concept too long. Just the right amount of time to spark your interest and analysis, then experimentation and mastery.

As a game in a long standing series, MGS3 also represents exactly what more series should do: it's distinctly Metal Gear at its core, retaining many core philosophies of design, but also rebuilds and remixes elements in new ways to keep them fresh. No view cones, or traditional radar at all. Most of the game taking place in outdoor environments, and thus less predictable and geometric cover to hide behind. The camo system changes the way you sneak, and the way guards respond to the player, to a system of spotting probability versus the hide-and-seek formula of MGS and MGS2. It's different enough to require players adapt to an entirely new method of sneaking and screwing with enemies, yet still has that iconic Metal Gear system at the core. And similar, if smaller, changes are littered through the game: the new healing system that emphasises regeneration and managing wounds instead of ration handouts. Continually depleting stamina that requires you hunt. Batteries powering the limited electronic equipment you have. It's Metal Gear, but different Metal Gear, rather than simply expanding or repeating the core formula, and exactly what developers should think of when giving a franchise a breath of fresh air.

KojiPro's trademark cheesy, frankly terrible script is still here, but MGS3 is a lot more grounded than MGS2, and most of the info dumps are kept relevant enough to have actual context to the plot and characters. The final stretch of the game and the traditional twists and reveals are much more plausible and interesting. The Cold War theme, and the origin of Big Boss, give the story good framework that doesn't rely on having to tie itself into a previous game or continue a character's story arc. It's a stand alone experience that, while massively integral to the overarching Metal Gear narrative, can be played pretty comfortably without any of the other games.

I love the Cobra Unit too, their characters and powers more closely resembling a colourful cast of enemies like FOXHOUND in Metal Gear Solid versus the shitty Dead Cell cast in MGS2. They're theatrical and silly but that's exactly I want. It's like battling Marvel villains, mutants, some crazy dude with crazy powers that make him unique. I also really like most of the fights, with the exception of The Fear and The Fury. The Fear is a good idea badly executed in that it's far too easy. Once you get a bead on him he's toast, and you can chew through his health or stamina with easily chained headshots. The Fury is also a good idea, but badly executed because it's a bit of a pain, the feedback on flame animations and what constitutes as burning kinda shitty. I wish they didn't animate his flaming of hallways in such a way that the flame decal appears through solid walls. It doesn't hurt you, but it's confusing and disorientating visual feedback of what's actually happening. All the other fights are pretty rock solid.

The HD port was really good, though not quite as consistent as MGS2. I mean, it's pretty objectively superior to MGS3 the original. Higher, more stable framerate. 720p visuals, and full screen cutscenes. Game looks gorgeous and, like Resident Evil 4, has stood the test of time in presentation better than MGS2. But unlike MGS2 HD the famerate isn't quite as locked. I don't recall MGS2 ever dipping, not once. MGS3 HD does a couple of times, usually when the screen is super busy with decal/transparency effects. It's rare, but I noticed it. Not much of a complaint though, as even at its lowest it's still higher than the PS2 version's best. I only noticed two other issues: a slightly bugged out water reflection shader near the end of the game, though that may have been in the original as it's over a huge vista, and it's not super noticeable. And two bizarre black pixel graphical issues on the left and right side of Big Boss' nose/mouth. It looks like a poly seam. Again, small issue, but strange they didn't pick up on and iron it out.

What else is there to say? For me, Metal Gear Solid 3 represents a similar kind of game design and quality that peaked during the last legs of the previous generation, represented in other games like Resident Evil 4. It's a big game of tremendous scope and variety, with a strong focus on a solid gameplay formula kept interesting through creative, snappy level and encounter design. It's paced in such a way that, as said, it never lingers on a concept too long. There's always some new challenge or idea around the next corner. And thus I feel it, along with the original Metal Gear Solid, represents what KojiPro are capable when at their most focused and talented.

 

[Synth_floyd]

I'm finishing up playing Peace Walker (on chapter 5 which I hear is mostly just a long grind to get some special "true" endings) and my ranking of the games on the disc are as follows:

Peace Walker
Metal Gear 2
MGS2
MGS3
Metal Gear

Why was Peace Walker the best? It took the formula established in MGS and MG2 (and reused in MGS2 and 3) and got rid of the long and boring cut scenes (along with cool comic book style cut scenes), had a straight forward plot without 20 million plot twists thrown at you and added in some cool simulation parts which finally took MGS out of the valley of "every sequel is the same but with a different plot." It's like they combined MGS, the VR missions and Suikoden (the castle building part) into one game. I also like how you can finally blast your way through many levels. The dumb thing about the MGS series is you always get all these cool guns but you can never use them because it's a "stealth" game. And the stealth parts of MGS are pretty lame. Just stay out of the enemies' line of vision. Anyway, the downsides of the game: It turns MGS into a freaking grind. Playing the same bosses over and over to randomly get stuff is lame. Also, there are way too many loading screens. And QTE events in cut scenes are stupid.

Metal Gear 2 was good as well. Probably the most advanced 8 bit game ever made. MGS is practically a remake of it, just with tons more cut scenes and codec conversations. MG2 reminds me of Zelda and other open world games. The only down side is there is lots of annoying backtracking.

MGS2 and 3 were okay. I didn't mind playing Raiden in 2 since I knew that in advance. The story was a bunch of nonsense. Supposedly the whole game was Kojima trolling everyone. MGS3 did add some gameplay elements but changing your camo and making you go through a bunch of dumb stuff to heal yourself didn't really contribute to the game experience at all. You also lose the radar. That combined with the crap controls and crap camera angles (which MGS2 also share) made it a huge pain in the ass to play. People say how good the story in MGS3 was and the sacrifice of The Boss and blah blah but I thought it was decent at best. Way too many ridiculous plot twists.

Then there's Metal Gear. It's worth playing for historical and curiosity reasons more than anything, but it's not a horrible game.

 

[AEREC]

I wish there was a way to pause the comic book cutscenes in peacewalker. I usually play in the living room where a lot of other stuff is going on (just had a kid among other things) and I want to be able to pause it and come back to it. Right now if I get pulled away I feel like I have to do the whole mission over again.

 

[Roto13]

I wish there was a way to pause the comic book cutscenes in peacewalker. I usually play in the living room where a lot of other stuff is going on (just had a kid among other things) and I want to be able to pause it and come back to it. Right now if I get pulled away I feel like I have to do the whole mission over again.

Do they pause if you press the PS/Guide button?

 

[AEREC]

Do they pause if you press the PS/Guide button?

Nope...that usually works in most games though.

 

[Synth_floyd]

Just rewatch it on youtube. I'm sure someone has uploaded themselves playing the game.

 

[Daigoro]

i feel bad for someone whos favorite Metal Gear game is PW.

2 and 3 were "ok" and PW is the best? yikes. i cant imagine anyone who is actually a fan of the series feeling that way.

also, the cutscenes in PW we're easily the worst of the series.

 

[AEREC]

i feel bad for someone whos favorite Metal Gear game is PW.

2 and 3 were "ok" and PW is the best? yikes. i cant imagine anyone who is actually a fan of the series feeling that way.

also, the cutscenes in PW we're easily the worst of the series.

PW seems ok so far...currently playing it on 360. My only complaint is that it seems too easy. Just beat the Chrysalis boss and Im not really upgrading anything. Missions are incredibly easy and boss fight are somewhat of a challenge but not too difficult.

Wish this was a current gen console MGS game as they would have been able to make better AI and environments.

 

[rvy]

PW can be enjoyable if you completely disregard the goofy and melodramatic storyline and play with a friend. That's the only way I was able to finish it.
Motherbase was awesome though, hope it comes back for GZ.

 

[AEREC]

PW can be enjoyable if you completely disregard the goofy and melodramatic storyline and play with a friend. That's the only way I was able to finish it.
Motherbase was awesome though, hope it comes back for GZ.

What's so awesome about motherbase? It's just a non interactive base that is built. Maybe I'm not far enough but it would have been cool if you could actually walk around in it.

 

[Daigoro]

yeah, i actually like PW. its just more like a spinoff compared to MGS 1-4. doesnt hold a candle to any of those games. bite size missions, not very interesting bosses, repeating missions, 1000 tank battles, and grinding.

dont know whats to like about the base. its just busywork with menus. i didnt find it very exciting myself. it's a cool concept, but there isnt anything to it really.

i also think the cutscenes kind of suck. wasnt much of a fan of them. i just finished MGS4 for the first time and even with its long ass cutscenes, i found that much more preferable.

im glad we got the HD version. its good to have, but i dont think of it as part of the main series. its not as good as any of the main games. not even close.

 

[EatChildren]

I like the Home Base concept, with all the mid-mission micro managing, but Peace Walker almost fully embodies exactly how I don't think a portable Metal Gear game should be made. The quality of the series that has kept me playing all these years is not super refined and intelligent gameplay, but that once you learn all the nuances of the mechanics and level design you discover there's quite a bit of depth. You gotta learn how each MGS plays, and then you can apply those learned mechanics in really interesting an experimental games. There's a lot of quirky shit to discover, and a great sense of depth and world/NPC responsiveness to your behaviour.

Because KojiPro insisted not on building an enitrely new MGS experience for the PSP, but shoehorning the MGS3/MGS4 formula onto seriously inadequate hardware, they've had to make massive concessions to majority of the mechanics. Sneaking, shooter, exploring, and interacting with the game world feels like a poor man's watered down MGS3 instead of it's own unique thing.

Basically, it's really boring and lifeless to play, with the exception of the Home Base system, which ironically is the only new game specific mechanic/system built from the ground up for this particular game.

Peace Walker should have been totally build as a PSP hardware specific game, with KojiPro completely cutting MGS3/MGS4 standard mechanics where necessary to create a properly robust and richly detailed portable MGS, with mechanics that encourage experimentation. Not MGS3 with shallow mechanics, awful AI, and miniature levels.

 

[Lafiel]

They should have just made a portable MGS game with MGS1/2 controls + camera. Because MGS3/4 controls simply do not work in a handheld format. They got that part so right for metal gear ghost babel for the GBC too.

 

[EatChildren]

They should have just made a portable MGS game with MGS1/2 controls + camera. Because MGS3/4 controls simply do not work in a handheld format. They got that part so right for metal gear ghost babel for the GBC too.

Right, this is exactly what I mean. Like I said in my retrospective of MGS2, MGS2's level design is still structured in a very binary, digital way, just like the original. It's only when you go into first person perspective to aim that the 3D game design becomes apparent. MGS3 was the first time the series properly hit full 3D game design for everything, whether it be shooting, exploring the levels, fighting the bosses, or whatever.

The PSP just isn't equipped to make a Snake Eater like game, both because of control limitations and because the hardware is too shitty. But they insisted on doing it, and ended up with Snake Eater lite. And not in a good way.

 

[Omikaru]

I like the Home Base concept, with all the mid-mission micro managing, but Peace Walker almost fully embodies exactly how I don't think a portable Metal Gear game should be made. The quality of the series that has kept me playing all these years is not super refined and intelligent gameplay, but that once you learn all the nuances of the mechanics and level design you discover there's quite a bit of depth. You gotta learn how each MGS plays, and then you can apply those learned mechanics in really interesting an experimental games. There's a lot of quirky shit to discover, and a great sense of depth and world/NPC responsiveness to your behaviour.

Because KojiPro insisted not on building an enitrely new MGS experience for the PSP, but shoehorning the MGS3/MGS4 formula onto seriously inadequate hardware, they've had to make massive concessions to majority of the mechanics. Sneaking, shooter, exploring, and interacting with the game world feels like a poor man's watered down MGS3 instead of it's own unique thing.

Basically, it's really boring and lifeless to play, with the exception of the Home Base system, which ironically is the only new game specific mechanic/system built from the ground up for this particular game.

Peace Walker should have been totally build as a PSP hardware specific game, with KojiPro completely cutting MGS3/MGS4 standard mechanics where necessary to create a properly robust and richly detailed portable MGS, with mechanics that encourage experimentation. Not MGS3 with shallow mechanics, awful AI, and miniature levels.

This is kind of how I feel. The worst bit of the MGS4/MGS3 mechanic being shoehorned in is losing the face buttons to accommodate camera controls. That really hollowed out the kind of things you could do with those mechanics and it, well, played like crap.

As Lafiel said, isometric camera should've been a no-brainer for the PSP. Oh well.

I still think the best PSP MGS games were the AC!D ones. Controversial, maybe, but I haven't felt like a Metal Gear game was as seriously considered for the PSP quite like AC!D 1 & 2 were.

 

[Quackula]

I've been playing Peace Walker HD off and on.

I'm enjoying it, no major complaints to speak of, but of course I haven't actually finished it yet. Wasn't a huge fan of the micromanagement stuff at first but it's growing on me.

Never played the PSP version to compare, I honestly can't imagine how the controls felt. Needs that second stick imo.

 

[rvy]

What's so awesome about motherbase? It's just a non interactive base that is built. Maybe I'm not far enough but it would have been cool if you could actually walk around in it.

It's addicting to level stuff up. And I hope you can do exactly that in GZ.

 

[iRAWRasaurus]

I still need to beat PW.. One of these days! But mgs3 will always be my favorite. The overall theme in the game is amazing.

 

[Retro_]

I don't like Mother Base at all. I hope it never returns in any other Metal Gear. At least not in its current form.

Unlike the management stuff in PO, its purpose was almost exclusively for weapon development.

and also unlike PO it was really obstructive to the narrative in combination with the mission structure.

I mean if I'm Snake managing this shit, why the hell am I going back and managing Mother Base if I'm in the middle of being ambushed by a tank or after I've been taken captive by the enemy even?

It was just uninteresting busy work that facilitated the monster hunter grind of the gameplay, with no real place in the narrative. I guess it's fun if you're the kind of person who likes filling up bars but I think it was a really underdeveloped idea as a whole that's just there because Big Boss needs to set up Outer Heaven soon or something.

 

[EatChildren]

I guess I just like the theme of Big Boss starting Outer Heaven, and that being replicated in the gameplay as a micromanaging data sim. The actual execution probably needed significant trimming down, but the core idea of recruiting personal and managing R&D at a base while you're on missions sounds good to me. Maybe in something like Ground Zeroes it can be refined, where you make calls to home base to micro manage data on the fly, and can then later call in drops for developed equipment.

Peace Walker's story is so awful and the gameplay so dull I guess that's why I didn't find it all that intrusive to the narrative.

 

[Retro_]

I guess I just like the theme of Big Boss starting Outer Heaven, and that being replicated in the gameplay as a micromanaging data sim. The actual execution probably needed significant trimming down, but the core idea of recruiting personal and managing R&D at a base while you're on missions sounds good to me. Maybe in something like Ground Zeroes it can be refined, where you make calls to home base to micro manage data on the fly, and can then later call in drops for developed equipment.

I don't mind the idea itself

The actual execution was just really poor. Since the only real tangible result of your effort is higher ranking versions of already existing gear for the lame repeat boss fights, which weren't alot of fun to begin with.

Every unit besides combat and food unit only serves as a requirement for weapon development, while, for a change of pace I'm assuming, food and combat just end up being useless instead.

It's just such a fundamentally flawed system on every level for a Metal Gear game that I'm not sure it's even salvageable.(What's the point of Mother Base management without the Monster Hunter Robot bosses? Not sure about you but I don't want those in GZ)

Peace Walker's story is so awful and the gameplay so dull I guess that's why I didn't find it all that intrusive to the narrative.

I didn't know that while playing, so at the time I just thought it was a weird design decision for the narrative they're presenting in the game. (Which was still a linear trek through the woods like MGS3)

The massive disconnect between all of PW's components is probably why I dislike the game so much in retrospect. I guess that's the fundamental problem with the game as well. Everything is half baked so that the player can just ignore all of it. Multiplayer and Mother Base are optional so that the player can just play it as a regular Metal Gear game and the content of both reflects that.

I just hope that if either Co-Op or Mother Base make a return in bigger entries KojiPro had the sense to take away from PW that game mechanics tend to fall flat without the content to support them. If not, I hope they just stick to making bigger and better Metal Gear Solid with difficulty levels, actual level design, interesting patrol patterns/AI behavior and narrative coherency with its mechanics.

Because that's what makes the original trilogy stand a whole head above everything else in the franchise

 

[Caboose]

Man, if you cut down all the unnecessary cutscenes and codec conversations in MGS 2, you have maybe 5 hours of actual gameplay left.

 

[AEREC]

Man, if you cut down all the unnecessary cutscenes and codec conversations in MGS 2, you have maybe 5 hours of actual gameplay left.

That can be said for all MGS games.

 

[Retro_]

Yeah that's why in game requirements for some emblems involve beating the game in about 3 hours

That can be said for all MGS games.

and most modern games in general really

 

[Mitochondrion]

I'm curious to know has anybody obtained all the 84 insignias, all the AI boards (I think there are 400 board in total?) and all the codename at rank five (five star)?

I did this last year on the HD collection. I originally wanted to do this on the PSP but couldn't because of the co-ops insignias and related stuffs. No one I knew beside me has PSP or even like Metal Gear Solid games. The HD collection changes all that by allowing PSN to use the online components of Peace Walker.

 

[Synth_floyd]

2 and 3 were definitely just "okay." 2 had that batshit crazy story. Maybe it was post-modern genius, but what it wasn't was entertaining or engaging. 3 made only superficial changes to the gameplay (CQC and the heal mechanic) and had a lame "let's make every character a double or triple agent" type story. The impact of a plot twist or character revelation is nullified when it's the 89th time that it's happened. And at least PW put The Boss' sacrifice into some kind of interesting context, which MGS3 clearly did not.

The best games in the series are MGS1, PW and MG2.

 

[Quick Mustard]

Sorry for the bump but this seemed the most appropriate topic.

Fuck Liquid Snake in MGS1.

I was able to beat this game countless times when I was young yet now I cant for the life of me beat this prick on top of Metal Gear Rex's head.

Any tips?

 

[valentine71]

How does the MGS3 holds up on gameplay terms? And what about the graphics? What is the general opinion on GAF? As i am gonna buy a few PSN games today i might get this as well. Should i buy that?

 

[rvy]

How does the MGS3 holds up on gameplay terms?

Controls ruin it.

And what about the graphics?

Very well.

 

[Tarps]

Controls ruin it.

Woah, Woah, Woah!

There's a learning curve to be sure, but to say the controls ruin it is just plain wrong.

 

[jett]

Does anyone know if the the loading times are any better on the PSN versions of MGS2 and MGS3?

 

[Natural]

Got the HD Collection on 360 and just started MGS2 for the first time now, not sure what to make of the 10 second tutorial at the start, guess I'll have to learn the buttons through trial and error.

 

[RadioHeadAche]

Man, if you cut down all the unnecessary cutscenes and codec conversations in MGS 2, you have maybe 5 hours of actual gameplay left.

MGS4 is like three hours long without cutscenes.

 

[UrbanRats]

Wanted to make a thread about this, but ultimately thought it wasn't worthed (also the first page is busy enough, with TropesvsWomen's and SimCity's stuff going on), so i'll post it here.

DSPGaming's Metal Gear Solid 2 (HD collection) let's play's highlights:

http://youtu.be/WZfxcLMN8r0

This shit is hilarious.

 

[Veelk]

So, I just replayed MGS2 in over....atleast 8 years.

I understood it a lot better than the first time around, but I am still confused about a few things:

1. Who was it that I was talking to all this time exactly? In Rising, Raiden says that it was GW, but GW was destroyed and I was still talking to Campbell and Rose. I also vaguely remember GW being in MGS4, so was it destroyed and I was talking to an unnamed patriot AI or was it merely damaged?

2. Was destroying/damaging GW part of the patriots plans? I get that they wanted to simulate how well they could control someone (Raiden) by giving them information, but since GW seems to be legitimately damaged....yeah, what the hell?

3. This isn't really a plot question I guess, but why is Raiden so trusting of Rose at the end? Putting aside the fact that he doesn't actually know how much of their relationship was true, if the patriots had her, how did she get away and show up at the exact location, ready to have an emotional moment with Raiden? Because this just reeks of the exact kind of thing the patriots would do and have done before. He comes off as somewhat dumb for not even being suspicious, given the circumstances.

4. So no one was curious about the wierd looking guy in the blue rubber suit carrying a sword in the middle of a street where there was some kind of catastrophy?

5. Lastly, the ending of the game has me hyped to see the story's conclusion. I know that MGS3 does have some plot important information for MGS4, as they partially explain how the patriots came to be (Zero is there at the end, I recall). But I honestly want to see the end of Snakes journey at the moment and save the prequels for the aftermath. It just seems like a shame to break such a good stride. So can anyone tell me if they recommend just going forth and playing MGS4, or does MGS3 set too much up in MGS4 to be omitted before I start playing?

 

[Endo Punk]

Skipped the game because of lack of Snake V Monkey but was given free and since it's one of the better HD collections I decided to give it a go. I died many times in MGS2... the controls are so convoluted, can't walk and with aim until L1 pressed, can't go in first person without R1 pressed. It really makes me appreciate the evolution MGS4 brought with its gameplay, I dread going back to camo in MGS3.

Anyway I still love MGS2, the clean look means it has aged gracefully and it's silky smooth to play. After MGR it's really nice going back and seeing where Raiden came from, great contrast to Snake and didn't deserve the hate in its initial release. Tanker is just the quintessential Metal Gear experience.

 

[Nouzka]

5. Lastly, the ending of the game has me hyped to see the story's conclusion. I know that MGS3 does have some plot important information for MGS4, as they partially explain how the patriots came to be (Zero is there at the end, I recall). But I honestly want to see the end of Snakes journey at the moment and save the prequels for the aftermath. It just seems like a shame to break such a good stride. So can anyone tell me if they recommend just going forth and playing MGS4, or does MGS3 set too much up in MGS4 to be omitted before I start playing?

I'd recommend playing MGS3 first. There's a lot of stuff in MGS4 where they reference to what happened in MGS3.

 

[Veelk]

I'd recommend playing MGS3 first. There's a lot of stuff in MGS4 where they reference to what happened in MGS3.

To be clear, this is me replaying the series, so I already know the general plotline of all the games. So, if you mean that there is a lot of plot relevant information that I'd be missing out on, then yeah, I agree that I should go back. But if you just mean throwbacks and cameos, then I don't think that's as great a loss.

 

[Xeno_V]

During the past 10 days I finished MGS 1, 2 and 3 (I had only finished 1 and 2 once in the past). Going through the first 2 games again was totally worth it, it was a nice way to appreciate MGS3 even more.
What should follow next? I guess that I should go for Peacewalker and finally 4. PW is supposed to be good as far as I am concerned right (plot-wise at least)? How about Portable Ops, should I check it out or am I better off reading a summary somewhere?

 

[Yen]

During the past 10 days I finished MGS 1, 2 and 3 (I had only finished 1 and 2 once in the past). Going through the first 2 games again was totally worth it, it was a nice way to appreciate MGS3 even more.
What should follow next? I guess that I should go for Peacewalker and finally 4. PW is supposed to be good as far as I am concerned right (plot-wise at least)? How about Portable Ops, should I check it out or am I better off reading a summary somewhere?

PO is not that fun to play, and features no worthwhile story. PW gets rather silly story-wise, but I found it insanely fun on the PSP. The structure of the game is probably not for everyone though

 

[Gregorn]

Skip portable ops, just pretend it doesn't exist.

Isn't it non-canon?