I think we need to have a "wait and see" approach to these micro transactions to see how they effect the overall experience. I won't be using them, but I'm a hardcore MGS fan. If I were a casual that just started playing, and might not have time to wait for all these great items, at least there's an option to hurry it up. No one is forcing us to buy anything. It's all a hobby anyway.
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Metal Gear Solid V: Gamescom Gameplay Demo
- Thread starter Ryan_MSF
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I think we need to have a "wait and see" approach to these micro transactions to see how they effect the overall experience. I won't be using them, but I'm a hardcore MGS fan. If I were a casual that just started playing, and might not have time to wait for all these great items, at least there's an option to hurry it up. No one is forcing us to buy anything. It's all a hobby anyway.
NoctisVsStar
Member
FOB IS OPTIONAL IT'S A MULTIPLAYER COMPONENT THAT HAS A RISK/REWARD FACTOR. YES, YOU CAN PLAY THE SP OFFLINE WITHOUT EVER NEEDING TO TOUCH THE FOB.
I hope that clears it =]
I hope that clears it =]
I didn't even think about that. That is pretty cool.
Right, but it's a hobby undertaken to have fun. If microtransactions are affecting the systems of the games we play and making them tedious slogs, it doesn't matter if we don't spend extra money. Damage already done.
I hope so =)
NoctisVsStar
Member
I obviously can't say for certain how intrusive it will be yet, but I just don't like some of the stuff I am seeing. It's just all too free to play looking with the currency and timers. The kind of shit you see in mobile games.
Seeing this with the knowledge that there are microtransactions does not give me confidence that they are just there and you will never know it. In other words, I am expecting to have to wait and grind unless I pay up. This is not the kind of system I want in a game I paid $60 for.
PW had the same elements, you had to wait for your items. Are we acting like MTs are a new thing or something? I don't recall how long they've been around, but they're optional. Sorry if I can't understand why this bothers you and others. It just won't effect how I will play, so I don't let it bother me. I've waited too long for this game to be upset by something I won't partake in.
Love Deterrence
Member
NoctisVsStar RIGHT NOW:
Yup! This was somewhat on display during the E3 demo, but yeah, it is so cool now. I imagine a scenario where you get stuck mid-mission, for example, you can just step back, request an item be developed, go off to complete a side quest, then by the time you finish that, it would be completed and ready to be delivered (depending on how long that item takes of course), call in the item, use it and complete the mission!
It's obviously not going to bother some. But I really don't like the idea of being put on timers for all of my upgrades and new items. Make no mistake, I still think the game looks mind blowing. I just have some reservations as well.
freshVeggie
Member
Kenzodielocke
Banned
First I watched the gameplay demo on my PC and the aliasing was very noticable, later I watched it on my TV and it looked way better.
NoctisVsStar
Member
| Praxis |
Banned
Not long to wait now!
freshVeggie
Member
~Limited only by your imagination~
matrix-cat
Member
PW's system of making you wait for stuff even after you'd met all the requirements for it to be crafted was a needless waste of the player's time. Konami/KojiPro obviously recognises that players feel like their time is being wasted, but instead of redesigning the system, they've simply slapped a price tag on it. That bothers me.
Ganondorfo
Junior Member
Kinda offtopic: I find it weird that Big Boss has more games than Solid Snake. Solid Snake deserved another game between Sons of Liberty and Guns of the Patriots. Also did Solid Snake ever fought alongside Master Miller?
Personally I love that you have to wait. Gives the game a bit more depth and character.
The MTs are certainly an added concern, I agree. FTP has kind of spoiled what is a perfectly fine game mechanic in real-time mission progression, though. Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood and Dragon Age: Inquisition both utilized them and I actively enjoyed both raising an Assassin's Den and doing War Table missions.
I think we can all agree that MTs can potentially be a problem, but I'm more optimistic than pessimistic that it won't be.
dukeoflegs
Member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGHUimwY0Mw&feature=youtu.be
The day to night cycle looks great, that sunset is beautiful.
Interesting that it costs GMP to call in a helicopter to extract. Hopefully I don't get into a situation where I don't have money to get out of a mission.
The day to night cycle looks great, that sunset is beautiful.
Interesting that it costs GMP to call in a helicopter to extract. Hopefully I don't get into a situation where I don't have money to get out of a mission.
crazyrabbits
Banned
The easiest thing to do would be to Fulton yourself out of the mission zone, which I'm fairly sure is much cheaper. When I think about it, I'm not sure why you would ever need Pequod/Morpho to extract unless you were transporting plot-important characters.
You might have to drive or sprint away.
I remember using a bit of this in Black Flag, but except for the smallest missions, it was such a waste of time that I never used it because any mission worth a damn took anywhere from six hours to an entire day. I can't even imagine how much I would've hated Black Flag if those timed pirate missions were the main game.
matrix-cat
Member
I would say that, in Peace Walker's case, it was a transparent attempt to stretch out and pad a game severely lacking in content. In MGSV's case, I have no idea why it's there at all, because the game obviously isn't lacking in any department. I can't see anything to love about waiting through entirely arbitrary time limits for everything you want to unlock
That was Kenway's Fleet right? The problem with that is from the start it was supposed to be a social minigame where friends helped other friends and so on. Playing solo I soon ran out of the barrels or whatever you needed to send out more missions, so I couldn't do anything. It was definitely terrible.
Especially when these time limits have been compromised by micro-transactions enabling them to be skipped.
If it's intended to improve the game flow you don't make them skip-able. Doing that makes the wait times arbitrary, and that betrays any idea of it being viewed as improving the experience.
I can understand the logic to, perhaps, making it so that players have a sense of importance to their decisions by making them time-locked. But also allowing players to skip that if they give you more money undermines what it might bring to an experience that is positive.
freshVeggie
Member
I like the time limits because they make the system less Drebin-ey. Current Weapons and items stuck behind customized loadouts and new equips stuck behind timers and balloon drops make the whole thing feel less "press x to win" and actually require something of an effort to acquire.
That said, I also agree that letting people pay to eliminate these timers is just weak as Hell. I hate it.
That said, I also agree that letting people pay to eliminate these timers is just weak as Hell. I hate it.
NoctisVsStar
Member
Solid Snake
MG1
MG2
MGS1
MGS2
MGS4
Big Boss
MGS3
PW
MGSV ( GZ&TPP is one full package)
And yes solid was sort of trained under miller
freshVeggie
Member
Ganondorfo
Junior Member
Did the training happen in one of the Metal Gear games, or is just lore. Because Master Miller is a great friend of Big Boss, it's weird for him to train Solid Snake (who is an enemy of Big Boss in one of the older Metal Gears. They really should make a stand alone Metal Gear game starring Kaz, so we know more about his story.
Love Deterrence
Member
No disrespect intended, but if anyone is suggesting that development timers will be an inconvenient wait because of the microtransactions, then I doubt that those people played Peace Walker. (If you have, apologies, but I don't know what to tell you.) In Peace Walker, weapons and items progressed as you completed missions in the field. The further you got into the game, and the more advanced the research became, the longer it took to develop. This would take an ungodly amount of time. Like, for example, I can't remember which item (maybe the Fulton Carl Gustav), I had to complete about ten of the 5-Skull difficulty missions. I can almost guarantee you that MGSV was going to be super-grindy regardless of microtransactions. Peace Walker really rewarded you for spending a great deal of time with Mother Base and the development of the base as well as weapons and items. I have no doubt that they had the same intentions in mind when they made this game - even after the implementation of microtransactions. Ignoring Mother Base will be impossible in this game, if I had to guess, as self-inflicted pacing issues will arise to those who choose to ignore (as one previewer pointed out with his experience). More so, a roadblock will be hit, whether it comes to bite you in the butt in the first Act or 75% of the way through the game. This happened to a good number of people who ignored it in Peace Walker as well, with the first big roadblock likely being the Pupa fight. They said during the presentation that as important as completing missions in their field is, it is equally important to spend time with Mother Base. Yes, it is a grind. It is supposed to be. You don't build an offshore military base overnight... unless you pay up. ;-) Kidding aside, one thing that isn't being talked about is that weapons/items will have a shorter development time the higher the rank of the unit developing, if Peace Walker is anything to go by. (One would assume that this is still the case.) Also, worth noting that certain items are disabled during FOB gameplay, so there's that too.
But as NoctisVsStar pointed out, for those concerned about 1-v-1 gameplay being affected by microtransactions, the FOB system is completely optional. If you're that worried about people tearing apart your base with microtransactions then
tbh
You're going to run into people who have spent a great deal of time and effort developing and you're going to run into people who have swiped dat credit card in hopes of a shorter in-game development time for the weapons and items they look forward to using, and the truth is, the difference between the two will be dependent on how skilled each player under the given circumstances is, because at the end of the day, that is what will matter most. If you are looking at strictly the loadouts of each player, then yes, there won't be much of a difference, however, there is a reason that the games are played and not simulated through how advanced the gadgets the players acquire are. There will be people with more advanced weapons and items than others, no doubt, but does that make them a sure-fire winner? Not at all.
I'm guessing that the buildings themselves are preset given that indoors are accessible, however, the placement of struts and the security (patrols, cameras, turrets, drones, etc.) will be entirely up to the player. When the Diamond Dogs soldier is selected and is out on a mission in Africa, they touch on this a bit, stating that players can get really in-depth with their defenses.
But as NoctisVsStar pointed out, for those concerned about 1-v-1 gameplay being affected by microtransactions, the FOB system is completely optional. If you're that worried about people tearing apart your base with microtransactions then
tbh
You're going to run into people who have spent a great deal of time and effort developing and you're going to run into people who have swiped dat credit card in hopes of a shorter in-game development time for the weapons and items they look forward to using, and the truth is, the difference between the two will be dependent on how skilled each player under the given circumstances is, because at the end of the day, that is what will matter most. If you are looking at strictly the loadouts of each player, then yes, there won't be much of a difference, however, there is a reason that the games are played and not simulated through how advanced the gadgets the players acquire are. There will be people with more advanced weapons and items than others, no doubt, but does that make them a sure-fire winner? Not at all.
I'm guessing that the buildings themselves are preset given that indoors are accessible, however, the placement of struts and the security (patrols, cameras, turrets, drones, etc.) will be entirely up to the player. When the Diamond Dogs soldier is selected and is out on a mission in Africa, they touch on this a bit, stating that players can get really in-depth with their defenses.
i take issue with this, because they clearly have redesigned the system by making it real-time and enabling the newly researched equipment to be dropped into the field when it's ready without having to quit a mission.
sounds a lot better than grinding mission after mission for the research timer to tick down like in peace walker.
ShutterMunster
Junior Member
This may end up being the best game of the series and my least favorite. This Mother Base stuff doesn't appeal to me much, it seems like a lot of management. The mission structure seems so fragmented I don't see how the narrative could maintain a good flow. The way they're showing the game off to me is worrisome. The in-field combat, stealth, and buddy system looks incredible though. I'm there Day 1, but this certainly wasn't the Metal Gear send off I was expecting.
freshVeggie
Member
I just love how organic and dense the jungle looks
matrix-cat
Member
I agree that recruiting the right dudes and leveling up your R&D team and acquiring enough GMP to start development gives you a sense of accomplishment, it's just the subsequent wait time that feels meaningless to me. There's no skill or effort in waiting for a timer to tick down, y'know? I've done the work, accomplished something, now I'm just... waiting.
It's a little better, I guess. More convenient. But the fundamental problem remains unchanged: you've gotta sit around waiting for shit.
Love Deterrence
Member
I just love how organic and dense the jungle looks
Yeah, man! So cool, too, that playing as certain soldiers will give greater advantages, too, like the player using the botanist!
This. Not to mention that I just don't want my game time to be dictated by timers. I want to play at my own pace, not by the game in order to try and get me to speed things up by buying conveniently placed microtransactions. And you can bet your ass that is why they are there.
There are just too many games coming out and I am not going to dedicate all of this extra time to unlock things in this game. I mean, some of the stuff we saw was two hours. Imagine doing that over and over again and tell me it will not get old. But sure, I will wait and see how it all plays out.
NoctisVsStar
Member
Kaz and big boss part ways at some point we don't why but TPP should answer that. Also very important at the end of PW
there's a secret tape that shows kaz was in contact with cypher and was aware of the les enfant terrible project
BiGBoSSMk23
A company being excited for their new game is a huge slap in the face to all the fans that liked their old games.
My girlfriend wants to get me the game simply to manage my mother base and keep me stocked up... Is that sexist? Lol
orichalcos
Member
Very cool, but Konami!!! Where is the game on Xbox Live?? I wanna buy it!!
She knows her place. I mean what's the difference...kitchen...Mother Base...same thing.
lul.
BossDarkseid
Member
What...we don't need to know anything more about Kaz...its the same with The Boss. There's nothing else we need to no, no blanks or gaps to fill in, while seeing Big Boss' descent was something that had been hinted at but not shown explicitly.
Kaz and BB go back to FOXHOUND, train the next generation. At some point Kaz leaves or retires then goes to his hut until he gets killed by Liquid just before MGS1. What facet of his story is there left to tell that isn't already inferred or kinda obvious by now >
KeyChainDude
Member
That was so intense! I'm actually more excited for that than for MGO itself.
well, you only wait around if you've got nothing to do. i think that's part of the thought process behind justifying timers. you can go futz around in free roam, complete another mission, attack a FOB, do some target practice. stuff like that.
i mean, you can send an RnD design straight back to base as soon as you find it and get the mother base team working on it immediately. probably by the time you finish the mission it'll be ready for use, maybe even earlier. the immediacy of controlling that mother base stuff whenever and wherever makes it so many times better than doing it at a menu between missions like in peace walker.
if it all unlocked immediately with the right base level i think they'd have an awful time balancing the game, as all the high level equipment would become available a lot earlier than it should. i don't see it as not respecting the players time, i see it more as a nudge to go and do stuff to fill the time instead of just staring at a timer ticking down.
There are a few wrinkles in MGSV's upgrade system that make it harder to compare to Peace Walker.
The biggest one I can see is the GMP cost on extraction and the development of new Mother Base structures. Fulton extraction ranges from relatively cheap for individual soldiers to incredibly expensive (10,000 GMP) for something like an AA gun. Over the course of hundreds of extractions it should add up to a meaningful cost. Similar to PW, I expect elite soldiers may have to be placed into a brig, which takes time. Eventually, you'll reach capacity that gates you from leveling up weapons/equipment so you'll have to build new MB structures in each category (intel, support, etc) which costs GMP and time. The video has an example for 40,000 GMP and 35 minutes, and I imagine the cost of both will rise as you progress. In PW your base automatically expanded as you added more soldiers and your rank went up. This is on top of the standard wait time and GMP costs for weapons and equipment research.
Obviously microtransactions are a big difference as well, but I think GMP is going to be a bigger gate than time so they shouldn't be too tempting. I'm not sure if we have any point of reference for how much money you make per mission expect that raw diamonds are worth 10,000 GMP which is... pretty paltry.
The biggest one I can see is the GMP cost on extraction and the development of new Mother Base structures. Fulton extraction ranges from relatively cheap for individual soldiers to incredibly expensive (10,000 GMP) for something like an AA gun. Over the course of hundreds of extractions it should add up to a meaningful cost. Similar to PW, I expect elite soldiers may have to be placed into a brig, which takes time. Eventually, you'll reach capacity that gates you from leveling up weapons/equipment so you'll have to build new MB structures in each category (intel, support, etc) which costs GMP and time. The video has an example for 40,000 GMP and 35 minutes, and I imagine the cost of both will rise as you progress. In PW your base automatically expanded as you added more soldiers and your rank went up. This is on top of the standard wait time and GMP costs for weapons and equipment research.
Obviously microtransactions are a big difference as well, but I think GMP is going to be a bigger gate than time so they shouldn't be too tempting. I'm not sure if we have any point of reference for how much money you make per mission expect that raw diamonds are worth 10,000 GMP which is... pretty paltry.
Well, presumably you'll be playing the game, though, not sitting around waiting. So you research your first rifle, pick it up, head out on a mission somewhere, and during it or by the end of it your next researched weapon is done. Since devs know how long it takes to finish their game, they can balance timers accordingly and give you progression in a way that feels coherent with what is happening in the game (R&D, which takes time).