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Metroid: Samus Returns |OT| What's past is prologue.
- Thread starter TheMoon
- Start date
Direction, then hit A. The D-pad direction just selects the ability (you get more).
The direction buttons just SELECT aeon abilities. Push the A button to use whatever Aeon ability you have selected.
Pokemaniac
Member
The D-pad only selects the Aeion ability. The A button activates and deactivates them.
Green Mamba
Member
Fusion mode completed, 3:30. Didn't go for 100%, mostly because I got to the end and realized I wouldn't be able to do it in under four hours so I decided to just beeline for the end.
That's my fourth time through and I'm already thinking about playing again tomorrow. Nothing really captures my attention quite like a good Metroid.
Kinda disappointed that Samus's hair was left in a ponytail despite her wearing the Fusion ending outfit, but oh well.
That's my fourth time through and I'm already thinking about playing again tomorrow. Nothing really captures my attention quite like a good Metroid.
Me too. I'm playing super metroid now and i marvel at the game design. Controls are what they are. I mean some of the modern additions like edge grab and morphball edge climb are great but for some reason I love some of the momentum and physics in the old games. Really feels like you are actually
Getting skilled at the game.
Yeah, you do.
Hah, awesome. Longer than I thought.
RPS37
Member
Holy..I'm at 8.5hours and Area
3
User 73706
Banned
Normally I'd agree with you, but honestly, I was happy enough with AM2R's version that I'm fine with the Queen in this one getting something else. It's a pretty simple track to begin with, so it's not like they had to do a ton to make it salvageable.
Jawbreaker
Member
Boy, that
really destroyed the feeling that the original (and AM2R) evoked. It really didn't make much sense, and it was terribly drawn out. I didn't much care for having enemies along the way, either.
Ridley fight at the end
D.Lo
Member
What a great game this turned out to be. Perfect halfway point between the Super Metroid template and the M2 structure. And the easiest to get 100% in which I appreciate, I never enjoyed using walkthroughs for the last 1-25.
Really cool how the Chozo memories played out.
Really cool how the Chozo memories played out.
Really well done how they worked out an in-game explanation for the planet being covered with acid, and holy shit at the implications of the ending...
CharminUltra
Member
Aside from Breath of the Wild, Samus Returns is the other game I beat this year that Im dying to replay as soon as Im done with my backlog. Im currently playing Horizon Zero dawn and all I can think of is oh, thats right, I forgot to revisit that one area in Metroid.
I wasn't saying that a total rework was in order, just that a faithful cover in line with that, or at least some major use of the motif, would have been nice to hear. The AM2R piece is pretty good (and definitely sounds like it could be from an official Metroid soundtrack), but for me it doesn't quite make up for its almost total absence here. That simplicity is the reason why it could have so easily been worked in as a recurring theme.
CharminUltra
Member
Holy shit. Was reading a few pages back and noticed the gorgeous HD shots.
pachajustright.jpg
pachajustright.jpg
StarCreator
Member
My question: does playing it this way also uncap the 30fps limiter?
Earthpainting
Member
I'm slowly chipping away at it, and only have one 'roid left on the counter. My love for the game is quite a rollercoaster. The core mechanics were ace, and getting around the world and doing puzzles is a lot of fun. My appreciation waned whenever I had to do another boss fight though. The early ones were fine, as I could dispatch them quickly. The further you go though, the more and more time they take. If it were up to me, I wouldn't have minded if the amount of Metroids could have been cut into half, or if I could get another upgrade to kill 'em faster.
Metroid 2 is one of those games I'm physically unable to play without getting headaches, so I'm glad they remade it. I can't really compare it to the original, but I do think it stacks up favourably with all the other entries I've played.
Metroid 2 is one of those games I'm physically unable to play without getting headaches, so I'm glad they remade it. I can't really compare it to the original, but I do think it stacks up favourably with all the other entries I've played.
TheMoon
Member
Before my next picture dump, I just wanted to say, screw the 3DS screen forever. So many details in the background that I didn't notice or just didn't look that good that now look great in 1080p
lol amazing coincidence, I took a screenshot in the exact same spot on 3DS
Nope and the elevators are still 18fps. Hopefully there is a hack soon
Ged
Member
Dude, thats a terrible use for the spoiler tag.
Haven't had too much time to play, just got to Area 4. I liked Area 3 but was starting to feel drained after a while because I got stuck on where to go next for a little while.
I've been thinking about the combat design of the game and it sort of feels like a cross between what Metroid Other M was doing lain on top of a more traditional Metroid structure. I would love to see another third person 3D perspective Metroid game that refines it even further.
SenseMove was a lot of fun in Other M but at times I felt like I was never 100% sure what the opening and closing of its window was, or how it was going to play out when there were enemies at multiple angles. I like the counter here because there are clear indications but it's starting to feel like a fancied up QTE. I think part of it has to do with the 2D plane. For the most part enemies are getting aggro'd two at a time because more would most likely be overwhelming. You're not invincible during a successful counter and your only tool is to be mindful of your spacing. At best, I've countered one enemy with enough time for the animation to finish and counter a second one and finish both of them while the stun animation is still going on. I would be interested in seeing what a dodge roll in addition to a counter could do for the gameplay. Samus has a lot going on control wise though so that might be an issue. Do you guys think we'll see a counter mechanic in Prime 4?
The other thing I want to see explored is Samus having a consumable meter. The Aeion abilities are kind of weak overall but I see some great sparks every now and then, The third ability in particular has felt fun and something I actually use often. This seems like it would be harder to integrate but some kind of a risk-reward system sounds like it could be really cool.
I've been thinking about the combat design of the game and it sort of feels like a cross between what Metroid Other M was doing lain on top of a more traditional Metroid structure. I would love to see another third person 3D perspective Metroid game that refines it even further.
SenseMove was a lot of fun in Other M but at times I felt like I was never 100% sure what the opening and closing of its window was, or how it was going to play out when there were enemies at multiple angles. I like the counter here because there are clear indications but it's starting to feel like a fancied up QTE. I think part of it has to do with the 2D plane. For the most part enemies are getting aggro'd two at a time because more would most likely be overwhelming. You're not invincible during a successful counter and your only tool is to be mindful of your spacing. At best, I've countered one enemy with enough time for the animation to finish and counter a second one and finish both of them while the stun animation is still going on. I would be interested in seeing what a dodge roll in addition to a counter could do for the gameplay. Samus has a lot going on control wise though so that might be an issue. Do you guys think we'll see a counter mechanic in Prime 4?
The other thing I want to see explored is Samus having a consumable meter. The Aeion abilities are kind of weak overall but I see some great sparks every now and then, The third ability in particular has felt fun and something I actually use often. This seems like it would be harder to integrate but some kind of a risk-reward system sounds like it could be really cool.
Not sure what kind of consumable meter you'd want to have seen instead? The abilities range in offensive or defensive capabilities.
Not a "different" meter necessarily, the existing one is fine as is. I just think meter management taking a more active role in the gameplay experience could be something interesting. I have three abilities right now but the game doesn't engage them directly very often so my meter is never in danger of running out.
TheMoon
Member
they're not needed often on normal but I suppose on hard they'll get more use.
I beat the game a while back (like, 2+ weeks ago) but never actually posted any full thoughts about it, I guess because so much of my impression about Samus Returns wasn't so much about this game itself, and more about what I'd like to see them keep, remove, or improve about it for any potential sequels. As someone who's tried and been mostly unable to really get into the Prime games, I've been hoping for some alternative to first-person Metroid at a time when Nintendo didn't seem to really know what to do with it anymore, but this to me showed that they really don't have to fundamentally change the original foundations like they did with Other M in order to make a good third person Metroid. So I guess that's just how I have to frame my thoughts for this game: in terms of how I'd compare it to a theoretical new project.
More new tricks...and fewer old ones.
I can give SR somewhat of a pass for this since it's a remake, and there hasn't really been a 2-D game with Samus' arsenal like this in a long time, but for as much as I enjoyed SR adding in the Aeion abilities, tying them into a new resource as well as providing an interesting new piece of lore, I wound up feeling similarly disappointed in the way that nearly everything else you get all retreads ground that's become quite well-worn at this point. Zelda fell into this same trap for a long time too, where before you ever booted up the newest installment of the series you knew you'd eventually get a bow to shoot eyeball-switches, a boomerang to grab keys or hit distant buttons, bombs to blow up cracked walls, a power glove to lift boulders, and a small smattering of new items that would fit very specific purposes at specific points and offer little other utility. Same deal here, you walk in knowing from the beginning you'll get missiles, super missiles, bombs, varia suit, gravity suit, the same beam upgrades you always get, etc etc. Aeion's a good start, but some different permanent upgrades would go a long way in making a new experience feel a lot fresher.
Stronger mix of tones and zones, especially in presentation.
The backgrounds in Samus Returns are actually pretty well-done despite some folks' gripes, and each "area" in the game provides some new twists, from underground jungles to industrial mines, watery caverns and religious temples...but those themes are somewhat held back by the trappings around them. It's been talked about quite a bit here already, but the biggest things holding the presentation back are the fairly bland brown-stone and nondescript Chozo-built structure that make up the foreground objects that Samus actually moves around on, as well as music whose only real defining moments come when it reuses music from prior games in the series. There's a lot that could be done to shore up both aspects, and one thing that I think stands to be the most effective in making these areas stand out would be a greater degree of tonal shift between major sections. Super Metroid does a great job with this, swapping areas visually and aurally quite often to provide moments of calm, tension, mystery, wonder, suspicion, and so forth all with regular frequency. These tonal shifts don't feel nearly as pronounced in SR, even though the basic groundwork for them is actually there. Tying in to this...
Better enemy variety...even if it's partly a mirage.
It's not like the standard enemies in games like Super or Zero Mission are all that distinct mechanically, for the most part they all generally function as arm cannon fodder with varying degrees of damage-spongeyness. In that regard I think Samus Returns does a decent job, but it needs to go further. I like that different enemies sometimes require different tactics (like some where missiles or beam burst are more effective, some are best to wait and counter while others you can be aggressive with), but visually there needed to be a little more distinction because the most common enemies wear out their welcome really quickly and it contributes to the sameyness of the environments previously mentioned. You weren't generally running into the same enemies in lower Norfair than you do in Crateria in Super even if they don't operate much differently, for example, and it makes those biomes feel more unique and distinct.
I want a future game to keep the free-aim and the melee-counter, but add some more variety to enemy attacks and their aggressiveness to keep the mechanic from feeling too overused. I was kind of shocked that there's no enemy that you can quick kill by, for instance, using the counter on a projectile they fire at you. Generally most enemies react to your presence, which is cool, but they largely react by charging you, which gets old when so many of them do it. Those that don't charge you either retreat while shitting toxic green slime, or annoyingly electrify whole platforms. I wouldn't have minded more enemy types that are still a bit more neutral. Also they could do slightly less damage thanks.
Speaking of enemies...a bit more balance to the boss encounters would be great.
Some of this is just the Metroid 2 structure where you wind up fighting a lot of Gammas because why not, so some of this particular point might take care of itself with any future game without that hunt mechanic to it. My favorite fights in the game are probably the Zeta and Omega fights because they can be challenging on your first attempt or two, but the fights themselves remain comparatively fast-paced, which is something that falls short in a few other cases. The oft-polarizing
for example, contains quite a few clever gimmicks and good weapon uses, but definitely feels like it drags on longer than it has any right to and between the length and it's general difficulty, I think it has a bad habit of fumbling the game's pacing a bit. A few bosses would have benefit from maybe cutting back on an attack that they're mostly invulnerable during and turning the game into a dodge-fest. It's an easy fix to make the fights more brisk without sacrificing the creative uses for some of the stuff in Samus' arsenal that you don't tend to see during 2-D Metroid bosses.
A more "organic" world and how that changes puzzle design.
This is, honestly, the thing I feel most strongly about after coming off of Samus Returns and informs my biggest hope for later games. Metroid's sense of moving around an unknown world, its exploration and atmosphere are typically great, but there are a few moments still that wind up making the experience feel too video gamey for its own good. If and when they do make another Metroid, particularly one taking place on an alien planet, I'd love for them to take more steps to truly make it feel like a planet and not just a big puzzle box filled with specific keyholes. It started to really bug me in Samus Returns how often you'd be poking around parts of the environment only to bomb a piece of wall and have it suddenly turn into a very artificial-looking block with a missile or screw attack logo plastered on it. Like....what sense does that make? I get that they had to find ways for people not to break their crafted puzzles, but...random bomb-sucking air vents posted in bizarre arbitrary locations? I get it for the sake of playing a game, but not for exploring a world. I'd love to see a setting without ubiquitous doors or mysteriously-regenerating blocks that actually construct everything, but a location that looks and plays more naturally, and an arsenal for Samus where everything still has its uses, but done in a way that makes more logical sense. If Power Bombs are so strong, why can that blast not destroy something where a comparatively low-power missile is necessary, just because it's that color?
I know that the Prime games already take some steps toward this with different materials being more susceptible to different things, but it can be taken further to improve that sense of broadening your arsenal to aid exploration without it looking like SR-388 was built out of graph paper. I want to believe they can do better.
More new tricks...and fewer old ones.
I can give SR somewhat of a pass for this since it's a remake, and there hasn't really been a 2-D game with Samus' arsenal like this in a long time, but for as much as I enjoyed SR adding in the Aeion abilities, tying them into a new resource as well as providing an interesting new piece of lore, I wound up feeling similarly disappointed in the way that nearly everything else you get all retreads ground that's become quite well-worn at this point. Zelda fell into this same trap for a long time too, where before you ever booted up the newest installment of the series you knew you'd eventually get a bow to shoot eyeball-switches, a boomerang to grab keys or hit distant buttons, bombs to blow up cracked walls, a power glove to lift boulders, and a small smattering of new items that would fit very specific purposes at specific points and offer little other utility. Same deal here, you walk in knowing from the beginning you'll get missiles, super missiles, bombs, varia suit, gravity suit, the same beam upgrades you always get, etc etc. Aeion's a good start, but some different permanent upgrades would go a long way in making a new experience feel a lot fresher.
Stronger mix of tones and zones, especially in presentation.
The backgrounds in Samus Returns are actually pretty well-done despite some folks' gripes, and each "area" in the game provides some new twists, from underground jungles to industrial mines, watery caverns and religious temples...but those themes are somewhat held back by the trappings around them. It's been talked about quite a bit here already, but the biggest things holding the presentation back are the fairly bland brown-stone and nondescript Chozo-built structure that make up the foreground objects that Samus actually moves around on, as well as music whose only real defining moments come when it reuses music from prior games in the series. There's a lot that could be done to shore up both aspects, and one thing that I think stands to be the most effective in making these areas stand out would be a greater degree of tonal shift between major sections. Super Metroid does a great job with this, swapping areas visually and aurally quite often to provide moments of calm, tension, mystery, wonder, suspicion, and so forth all with regular frequency. These tonal shifts don't feel nearly as pronounced in SR, even though the basic groundwork for them is actually there. Tying in to this...
Better enemy variety...even if it's partly a mirage.
It's not like the standard enemies in games like Super or Zero Mission are all that distinct mechanically, for the most part they all generally function as arm cannon fodder with varying degrees of damage-spongeyness. In that regard I think Samus Returns does a decent job, but it needs to go further. I like that different enemies sometimes require different tactics (like some where missiles or beam burst are more effective, some are best to wait and counter while others you can be aggressive with), but visually there needed to be a little more distinction because the most common enemies wear out their welcome really quickly and it contributes to the sameyness of the environments previously mentioned. You weren't generally running into the same enemies in lower Norfair than you do in Crateria in Super even if they don't operate much differently, for example, and it makes those biomes feel more unique and distinct.
I want a future game to keep the free-aim and the melee-counter, but add some more variety to enemy attacks and their aggressiveness to keep the mechanic from feeling too overused. I was kind of shocked that there's no enemy that you can quick kill by, for instance, using the counter on a projectile they fire at you. Generally most enemies react to your presence, which is cool, but they largely react by charging you, which gets old when so many of them do it. Those that don't charge you either retreat while shitting toxic green slime, or annoyingly electrify whole platforms. I wouldn't have minded more enemy types that are still a bit more neutral. Also they could do slightly less damage thanks.
Speaking of enemies...a bit more balance to the boss encounters would be great.
Some of this is just the Metroid 2 structure where you wind up fighting a lot of Gammas because why not, so some of this particular point might take care of itself with any future game without that hunt mechanic to it. My favorite fights in the game are probably the Zeta and Omega fights because they can be challenging on your first attempt or two, but the fights themselves remain comparatively fast-paced, which is something that falls short in a few other cases. The oft-polarizing
Diggernaut fight,
A more "organic" world and how that changes puzzle design.
This is, honestly, the thing I feel most strongly about after coming off of Samus Returns and informs my biggest hope for later games. Metroid's sense of moving around an unknown world, its exploration and atmosphere are typically great, but there are a few moments still that wind up making the experience feel too video gamey for its own good. If and when they do make another Metroid, particularly one taking place on an alien planet, I'd love for them to take more steps to truly make it feel like a planet and not just a big puzzle box filled with specific keyholes. It started to really bug me in Samus Returns how often you'd be poking around parts of the environment only to bomb a piece of wall and have it suddenly turn into a very artificial-looking block with a missile or screw attack logo plastered on it. Like....what sense does that make? I get that they had to find ways for people not to break their crafted puzzles, but...random bomb-sucking air vents posted in bizarre arbitrary locations? I get it for the sake of playing a game, but not for exploring a world. I'd love to see a setting without ubiquitous doors or mysteriously-regenerating blocks that actually construct everything, but a location that looks and plays more naturally, and an arsenal for Samus where everything still has its uses, but done in a way that makes more logical sense. If Power Bombs are so strong, why can that blast not destroy something where a comparatively low-power missile is necessary, just because it's that color?
I know that the Prime games already take some steps toward this with different materials being more susceptible to different things, but it can be taken further to improve that sense of broadening your arsenal to aid exploration without it looking like SR-388 was built out of graph paper. I want to believe they can do better.
The wall jump is the bane of my existence in Super Metroid. I still can't seem to get it right! LOL
Septimus Prime
Member
Personally, I would have preferred the melee counter act more like a traditional parry: fast and invincible, with maybe some pushback and auto-aim, but not the one-shot follow up that lends the game to making enemies tanks without it. Maybe you could have some enemies tanky and requiring a parry to knock down and expose a weak point, but the way it's implemented in SR, a lot of encounters just boiled down to waiting for that telltale flash, hitting melee counter, and shooting. It's especially bad during fights with the bigger Metroids.
StarCreator
Member
As far as I could tell, the followup shot to a parry is just a charged shot (once you have the charge shot upgrade). Charging a shot and letting it go has about the same effectiveness unless it's an armored enemy type.
TheSpaceBetween
Member
I was trying to do wall jumps in Samus Returns the way I do them in Super Metroid. Muscle memory is hard to break haha.
I really don't like how awful the Wall Jump is in Samus Returns. There's really no reason for it to be so bad; it wouldn't unlock sequence breaks when infinite bomb jumping and the Spider Ball are both available so early.
Green Mamba
Member
Yeah, it's kinda weird. It's also not useful in very many situations--level design in this leans on curved walls a lot, which are impossible to wall jump from, and for whatever reason you can't wall jump in a single block wide shaft.
----
Random trivia I just thought of--this is the first Metroid game where the Morph Ball is found being held by a Chozo statue.
I was wracking my brain trying to counter, but youre right!
Prime 3 has the Spider Ball held by a Chozo, though.
Green Mamba
Member
The Wall Jump is crazy useful in Zero Mission.
wall jump is ok, but the space jump feels a little awkward. I think they're meant to be taught to consistently pull off (and bomb jump), because they're hidden techniques, and not necessary to complete the game.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Space Jump has always been wonky.
to be perfectly honest, to this day I haven't found any use for screw attack besides brick breaking. I guess there's "unimpeded jumping" but I could do that with shooting too.
to be perfectly honest, to this day I haven't found any use for screw attack besides brick breaking. I guess there's "unimpeded jumping" but I could do that with shooting too.
It thought some enemies were way easier to kill with screw attack. At least in Super Metroid.
D.Lo
Member
Screw attack was the most powerful weapon in the original Metroid, but from 3 onward is essentially a convenience. Just like speed booster, which breaks some blocks (which could just have been 'ultra bombs' or whatever from a key perspective) but just makes traversal more fluid and enjoyable.
Samus Returns handled not instakill on enemies with Screw attack quite well actually, it handled quite well the way you bounced off them.
Septimus Prime
Member
It's not, as the mechanic works before you even get Charge Shot. I mean, it's fine for what it is, but I think the way things are sets you up to rely on it and can slow pacing. And before you get Plasma, there are some encounters where it's not even worth it to shoot at all (like with the flying and walking spike ball guys)--where the optimal strategy is to run right up in their range, wait for them to attack, and then parry-shot.
I'd rather parries be more of a defensive tool, and I feel Samus would seem a lot more badass if she could just get into anything's face and then parry attacks, as opposed to having to wait for certain attacks.
Jawbreaker
Member
I just tried my copy on Citra last night, and it runs surprisingly well. It was maintaining 30 FPS with some hitches here and there at 10x native resolution. The game cleans up well, aside from some of the poor textures.
You could always try it with a mini second screen.
TheMoon
Member
This is always true. Especially here. If you don't have a use for the Screw Attack, you're doing something wrong.
StarCreator
Member
The biggest problem is probably the fact you have to use the touch buttons on the right to switch between shot/missile types. Can you map those to physical buttons?
TheMoon
Member
You're right, I think it might just be an instant charge shot but I'll have to double check because as far as I can remember it's always a one shot kill...or maybe you get the charged shot so early I've forgotten
TheMoon
Member
You're right, I think it might just be an instant charge shot but I'll have to double check because as far as I can remember it's always a one shot kill...or maybe you get the charged shot so early I've forgotten
it's most definitely not always a one-shot. on the early ones, probably.