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What's Going On With The Metroid?

Deerock71

Member
Oh...not much.
Season 4 Flirting GIF by Friends
 

MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Even ignoring the context of its release the game looked like total mediocrity. Remove the Metroid IP and that'd have been a nothing game like Tank Troopers that would have been instantly forgotten.
Another factor is it was at the tail-end of the 3DS's life and at that point many are like why bother?
 

Paltheos

Member
Talks Metroid

Some of Dread's upgrades stand up better on replay, esp. on one-hit kill mode. As a long-time fan, I was somewhat set in my ways and wouldn't always experiment with the moveset and would just eat the damage on my first playthrough. Storm Missiles (unlike the OG Seekers) are reliable DPS, and Flash Shift got me out of trouble on occasion. Cross Bomb is kinda w/e but it did shape a few puzzles I hadn't seen before. Magnet Spider and Phantom Cloak remained boring. The former is slow, and the latter is hardly better than a key.

I can say after being forced to learn the bosses, that however too tough people may have found them, they are all fair.

Agree on Corruption on the whole. There's very little new though, and almost none of it is interesting. Hyper mode is cool but remarkably unbalanced. The corrupted mode, a supposed penalty, balloons your damage output and prevents you from taking real damage, for way too long and in exchange for a measly energy tank.

I don't think the situation is quite as grim. You (like me) probably think of Metroid's universe as Star Wars-esque, a rudimentary patchwork of facts cohesive enough to stay together but not really intended to stretch beyond its boundaries. At its worst, you get something as embarrassingly incompetent as Other M, but even something more steadily handled like Corruption still feels misguided because the new personalities and style of story don't fit. Dread though is fine, thankfully - the Chozo tribe angle flies as a small adjustment to the universe as does consequently Raven Beak just being an asshole. I am in a position of "I don't know where they'll go from here" and I don't care about the characters of Prime 4 because who ever really cared about the other hunters anyway, but Dread's at least left me optimistic that it's possible to tell another Metroid story. I didn't think it was possible before Dread, and I feel corrected.
 

MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
I kind of think it's time that the corrupt splinter group in the Galactic Federation needs to be exposed for what they are. Course maybe that's where Metroid is going with Sylux.
 

Aldric

Member
One thing I'd like for the next game is to revisit the concepts shown in that old Fusion video from the early 2000s:



Stuff like Samus being able to walk vertically on walls, really out of there mechanics and upgrades. Dread had fun abilities but they felt very safe, it's time to get creative.
 

Variahunter

Member
Metroid is my favorite Nintendo series.

Super Metroid is the best one. Period.

Most of the new 2D episodes certainly won't top Super, and with Mercury Steam the 2D episodes are pretty much confined to a linear level design without substance and bad game design ideas. Dread was a 6 at best. Won't ever touch it again. We've had already too much 2D episodes, a new episode, like Dread, didn't bring nothing new to experience and wasn't even on par with games made 30 years ago by much smaller teams.

Prime was great. 2 was great. 3 was ok/mid.
With 3 FPS games, Prime series has nothing new to bring to the table. And Prime 4 certainly seems to be more of Prime 1-3.

The only way to make Metroid relevant, or at least, a fresh experience that respect the original gameplay and faithfully reproduce in 3D the 2D gameplay is to :

  • Make a 3D 3rd person game with a full controllable 3rd person camera (not like Other M, but like 3D Zelda)
  • Give Samus melee combat abilities (exemples : take inspiration from Smash bros for the hand to hand combat including grapple, give her a plasma saber...) on top of the numerous shooting abilities she already has.
  • Have 3 camera views, switch at any moment :
    • 3rd person Ninja Gaiden like camera for platforming and melee combat and shooting. Shooting would automatically lock on enemies, but can't aim precise parts like head or limbs. Basically works like shuriken (beam) or Fuma Shuriken (Missiles) in Ninja Gaiden or any Beam in Other M. Smaller enemies might are harder to hit in the beginning, but aim precision augments are obtainables
    • Toggable TPS view (by pressing L2) that allows precise aiming with a cursor but limited melee and movement including platforming
    • FPS view to analyse your environment with visors, not possible to move in this mode (like in Zelda OoT)
  • Make it a challenging game so you can feel the tension when exploring the map
  • More horror ambience. Prime was leaning way too much on contemplation and beautiful views. Almost zero horror or sense of dread like in Super. Not to say Metroid has to go full Resident Evil but it's inspired by Alien, so it should lean more towards it.
  • Make Samus really as agile as she is in 2D games. Again, Ninja Gaiden or Sekiro comes to mind with grapple and wall jumps. Don't forget speed booster and shine spark
  • Intricate level design, full of fakes walls and blocks to break. As in Souls (or you know, Zelda AlttP), use sound to know what wall is breakable by blasting at them. And of course also use graphical or level design hints for some.
  • Grapple : some surfaces can be grappled (like metal), some others can't (like rocks). I prefer this instead of having grappling points that hinder your movements. It's basically Tenchu or Shinobido instead of Sekiro.
  • Mix of big open zones on the surface of the planet, and narrow corridors underground (with some occasional open zones underground)
  • Do NOT neglect the OST or artistic direction

Give it to From Software.
They're the only one who can do it justice nowadays. They're good with 3rd person shooters (Armored Core), 3D action game (Sekiro), great progression system (Souls), top notch level design and artistic direction, are incredible environmental storytellers and they love dark themes.

Perfect match for Metroid.
 
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Paltheos

Member
Super Metroid is the best one. Period.

Super Metroid is a dinosaur. These were thoughts I had when I played it for the first time 15 years ago too. It's a landmark game that set the standard for the genre but it's been long, long eclipsed by newer games which have taken and built on its framework. There's very little interesting that it does today. Hell, I prefer its predecessor, Metroid II for the Game Boy, because at least that game does something unique - I love its unfriendly, claustrophobic feel and labyrinthine design.

Just to give something to chew on and show I'm not just being a contrarian, here's a quote from me many years ago describing parts of Super I don't like:

[The map] doesn't indicate whether item in a room has already been collected, Shinespark consumes energy and don't resume a run when hitting a slope, cancelled somersaults cannot be resumed until you hit solid ground (this one's a big sticking point to me, since I could screw up a jump or have reason to cancel my somersault midair but want to continue jumping after). I'm also generally not a big fan of Samus' slow and floaty movement style in this game, although this is definitely a preference thing. The game has an irritating abundance of long, empty rooms in Norfair with light platforming where you just avoid a bunch of enemies. I also recall an annoying oneway path in Maridia(?) that you have to circle back around a bunch of rooms in order to drop through quicksand just to get an upgrade if you happen to not know where to fall the first time, although this one's a minor nitpick.

Off the top of my head, I'd add that the Grapple Beam is awkward too and I could think of more if put to the task.

Just for the heck of it, because I haven't done this in a while: I'll draw up a series tier list. You could shift some around a little depending on the day you ask me, but this is my general feel:

1) AM2R
2) Zero Mission
3) Prime 2
4) Prime
5) Fusion
6) Dread
7) Metroid II
8) Prime 3
9) Super
10) Samus Returns
11) Other M
12) Hunters
13) Metroid
 

NeoIkaruGAF

Gold Member
Make a 3D 3rd person game with a full controllable 3rd person camera (not like Other M, but like 3D Zelda)
  • Give Samus melee combat abilities (exemples : take inspiration from Smash bros for the hand to hand combat including grapple, give her a plasma saber...) on top of the numerous shooting abilities she already has.
  • […]
Interesting ideas, and I wouldn’t be against it. Even if it does sound like a job that Mercury Steam could do, given their work on Castlevania…


Give it to From Software.

Perfect match for Metroid.
OH COME ON!
 

Variahunter

Member
They had me in the first half. Then I lost interest at the punchline.
Please presents your arguments against it.
I stated why From should be the one to do it.
You're just saying "no". Aren't we writing on a forum where debates take place ?

It's easy to dismiss an idea / opinion without arguing.

Maybe the reason is that you don't have any serious arguments opposing it.

Interesting ideas, and I wouldn’t be against it. Even if it does sound like a job that Mercury Steam could do, given their work on Castlevania…

Come on, are we comparing the action in Castlevania LoS to Sekiro or Ninja Gaiden ?
I liked Lords of Shadow, for the world building, graphics and storytelling, but come on, the actual gameplay was lacking and serviceable at best, like all their games.
 
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Variahunter

Member
Super Metroid is a dinosaur. These were thoughts I had when I played it for the first time 15 years ago too. It's a landmark game that set the standard for the genre but it's been long, long eclipsed by newer games which have taken and built on its framework. There's very little interesting that it does today. Hell, I prefer its predecessor, Metroid II for the Game Boy, because at least that game does something unique - I love its unfriendly, claustrophobic feel and labyrinthine design.

Just to give something to chew on and show I'm not just being a contrarian, here's a quote from me many years ago describing parts of Super I don't like:



Off the top of my head, I'd add that the Grapple Beam is awkward too and I could think of more if put to the task.

Just for the heck of it, because I haven't done this in a while: I'll draw up a series tier list. You could shift some around a little depending on the day you ask me, but this is my general feel:

1) AM2R
2) Zero Mission
3) Prime 2
4) Prime
5) Fusion
6) Dread
7) Metroid II
8) Prime 3
9) Super
10) Samus Returns
11) Other M
12) Hunters
13) Metroid
It's okay to have different opinions. But this one is something :messenger_hushed:
 

Dr. Wilkinson

Gold Member
Metroid just seems like a really underrated franchise. It's one of Nintendo's big ones but it only seems like we get one every few years and as far as the AAA 3D game like Metroid Prime, we almost never see.

It's weird and how such a well loved series gets so neglected. Even just a 2d game would be nice. Now I know there was a 2d game that was released just a year or two ago but they still seem pretty far apart.

In an age when we get yearly Mario games and Zelda games, it just seems like Metroid is someone under looked. It's one of the few Nintendo games that actually takes itself very seriously and I kind of like that. There's a lot of lore and there's an ongoing storyline for the most part which is something you don't see in many Nintendo games.

With Metroid on everybody's head, wouldn't you like to see more?
On Switch, Metroid’s gotten (and will get) more love from Nintendo than any previous system. GameCube got 2 games, Wii got 2, and Switch will have 2. But if you count all four (it might be 5?) of the NSO games then it actually exceeds previous systems because now you can essentially play the entire series all on Switch, both handheld or on your TV. Prime 4 is ~6 months away, don’t forget.

So I don’t agree with your premise, nor is it true that it’s one of Nintendo’s biggest franchises. Unit sales it’s actually at the Yoshi/Pikmin level. It’s always been low single digit millions.
 
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Dr. Wilkinson

Gold Member
but really, Nintendo cares a lot about Metroid even if sometimes appears like they don’t. It takes many years, but they care about the quality of the brand and i think its ok if Metroid is not a yearly series, they can work out the new Prime trilogy along with remasters and the 2D series, it will be fine
This. 💯 %. It’s Nintendo’s strength and one of the main reasons their games sell well (and for so long). They don’t do annualized games.
 
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Phase

Member
There are a whole bunch of modded roms that people have made if you want some fresh Metroid experiences. I definitely recommend going this route.
 

Holammer

Member
Unless Prime 4 becomes a huge success, it might be for the best to put the old girl to pasture.
Use the time and money on something that sells or something new instead, like a Ring Fit game. The world is ready for a new Ice Climber.
 

Darkmakaimura

Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
Other M is the best but I'm really looking forward to a first person shooter like the Prime series.
 

MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Please presents your arguments against it.
I stated why From should be the one to do it.
You're just saying "no". Aren't we wrinting on a forum where debates takes places ?

It's easy to dismiss an idea / opinion without arguing.

Maybe the reason is that you don't have any serious arguments opposing it.
From prioritizes systems that relies on a stamina bar, is notorious for having shitty cameras, an overreliance on obnoxious hitboxes, very stiff combat that requires you to overcommit on everything you do which would hinder Samus's mobility and agility rather then improve it and a rather dated progression system that makes grinding in a MMO seem like a walk in the park.

From is also only known for good art direction in primarily medieval settings and has never gone deep into designing Sci-Fi themed games beyond Armored Core which is primarily just Robots.

Furthermore the best Souls game out there isn't even by From. It's by Tecmo Koei. It's called Nioh 2. And even that falls victim to linear level design. And after Other M I doubt Koei(Team Ninja) will get another shot at it.

Metroid is about isolation, exploration and self discovery and the format for all of From's games by and large does not allow for that to happen. And is primarily believe it or not a Platformer while From primarily makes ARPGs.

If Metroid were to go 3rd person in the vein of Other M I feel you already have a couple games out there that achieve this with Returnal and Solar Ash.

I am not opposed to your ideas. But giving it to From Software is not the right move. Metroid operates best using automatic shift for it's form and function as opposed to From Software using Stick Shift in all of their games. And Nintendo isn't gonna give it to anyone but we knew that already. I only really see MercurySteam and Monolithsoft working on it in some form under Nintendo supervision.

And the more games MercurySteam has made under Nintendo's guidance the better they get at making them.

However I feel Metroid is only going to come in 2 forms. 2D run and gun platformer across a large map and a FPS which illustrates the same thing in a 3D plane.

-----------

Ironically From's best game is Sekiro and their most recent game is Sandbox Dark Souls(Elden Ring) which was pretty disappointing in the vein they went from Sekiro and then back to Souls dated format. Elden Ring is great but to me from a gameplay standpoint going from Sekiro to ER was just underwhelming.
 

Darkmakaimura

Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
This is probably a joke but other M is legit top 3 for me.

1. Super
2. Prime
3. Other M
4. Metroid
5. Return of Samus

Everything else is pure junk as far as I'm concerned.
No, not really a joke. I like Other M minus the silly cut scenes with Samus
 

jcorb

Member
So, funny thing about Dread; it *genuinely* managed to trigger real anxiety in me -- as in "I thought I was going to have an actual panic attack" (I used to as a teenager) -- so I wound up bouncing off the game immediately, and didn't come back until a couple years later. I could imagine that level of intensity might've scared off others.

That said, it's a fascinating franchise, because it's actually kind of a *lot* of different things, which I think makes it hard to market properly, and therefor struggles to find an audience. It has kinda-sorta Horror-like elements, but still family-friendly; it emphasizes exploration, but is generally pretty linear. It's a futuristic setting, but doesn't give you a lot to really latch onto, outside of the planet-specific lore tidbits you can find.

Even though Other M clearly wasn't well received, I think they were right to try and play with the formula. I love the Prime games, and the sidescrollers as separate entities, but I think Dread was really lacking creativity (which makes sense, given it supposedly started life as a remake of Super Metroid). I think Samus's starting armor in Dread is actually the coolest design she's ever had. I would kind of like to "get to know" Samus more as a character, though. Give her a real personality (she's clearly a badass bounty hunter, so no need to go overboard, but more competent than she appeared in Other M).

All in all, it feels like a franchise that's kind of *ready* to be a huge cultural hit, but it's just never *quite* found its stride with mainstream appeal. I think for my part, I would appreciate leaning into the exploration aspect more, with legitimate secret upgrades to unlock and maybe some amount of character customization (ie. different weapons or suits to choose from, that cater to different styles than being strictly superior or stacking upgrades). Maybe even experiment with a couple of different endings, encouraging New Game+ replays (minus any mission-critical items or upgrades, perhaps).
 

FeralEcho

Member
We had dread two years ago, Prime 4 next year and a billion indie metroidvanias in between
Yeah, I'm confused at the idea of this thread when Metroid as a franchise and Metroidvanias in general as a genre are going through a really great period.

The Federation Force days I can understand,those days were....pretty hopeless,to say the least.

But yeah,I feel this thread Is like 6-7 years too late.
 

MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Yeah, I'm confused at the idea of this thread when Metroid as a franchise and Metroidvanias in general as a genre are going through a really great period.

The Federation Force days I can understand,those days were....pretty hopeless,to say the least.

But yeah,I feel this thread Is like 6-7 years too late.
Yes I feel it is a bit too soon to judge MP4 since even with the trailer we know very little of it.
 

AngelMuffin

Member
One reason is that it doesn’t sell nearly the volume that Mario, Zelda, or DK do. Dread actually sold really well so I think we’ll get another 2D Metroid in 2026 since MP4 will be out with the Switch 2.
 

dmaul1114

Member
Metroid dread 2021
Metroid prime remaster 2023
Metroid prime 4 2025

Seems pretty good to me. The big issue was prime 4s development issues and was rebooted.
Yeah, this. It’s been a pretty good time for what’s always been a secondary, at best, franchise for them. 4 getting rebooted just set things back a bit.
 

Variahunter

Member
From prioritizes systems that relies on a stamina bar, is notorious for having shitty cameras, an overreliance on obnoxious hitboxes, very stiff combat that requires you to overcommit on everything you do which would hinder Samus's mobility and agility rather then improve it and a rather dated progression system that makes grinding in a MMO seem like a walk in the park.
Sekiro has no stamina bar. This argument is completely irrelevant as they obviously wouldn't put a stamina bar in Metroid. Come on, try better.

Shitty camera ? On giant enemies maybe, but again I have no problem in Elden Ring or Armored Core.

Obnoxious hitboxes ??? Man Dark Souls 2 was 10 years ago. You obviously haven't played Sekiro, which has extremely precise hitboxes.

Commitment on moves for Samus would in fact make her close to the feeling of Super Metroid imo. It's precisely the balance between extremely good mobility in the hands of speedrunners in Super Metroid, while casuals find her heavy.
Also really funny that you say that while having zero problem with hyper heavy Samus from Metroid Prime.

Dated progression system ? Please elaborate. You're talking about Souls here ? You know they make other games like Sekiro and AC which have completely different progression system ? Are you for real ?

From is also only known for good art direction in primarily medieval settings and has never gone deep into designing Sci-Fi themed games beyond Armored Core which is primarily just Robots.

Furthermore the best Souls game out there isn't even by From. It's by Tecmo Koei. It's called Nioh 2. And even that falls victim to linear level design. And after Other M I doubt Koei(Team Ninja) will get another shot at it.

"Aside from that Sci-fi setting in AC, they've never done Sci-fi" :messenger_tears_of_joy:

NiOH 2 has the best combat system, yes. But that's it. The art, lore, level design, progression system (please throw a gazillion random items at my feet for every mob!) can't even touch From Soft.

Metroid is about isolation, exploration and self discovery and the format for all of From's games by and large does not allow for that to happen. And is primarily believe it or not a Platformer while From primarily makes ARPGs.
Isolation : Souls does it really well.
Exploration : Souls does it incredibly well (much better than last Metroids which are just meh linear games).
Self Discovery : Souls does it incredibly well.

You seem to have not played any FS games honestly.
Sekiro does platforming very well even if it could have even more freedom or challenges.

If Metroid were to go 3rd person in the vein of Other M I feel you already have a couple games out there that achieve this with Returnal and Solar Ash.

I am not opposed to your ideas. But giving it to From Software is not the right move. Metroid operates best using automatic shift for it's form and function as opposed to From Software using Stick Shift in all of their games. And Nintendo isn't gonna give it to anyone but we knew that already. I only really see MercurySteam and Monolithsoft working on it in some form under Nintendo supervision.

And the more games MercurySteam has made under Nintendo's guidance the better they get at making them.

However I feel Metroid is only going to come in 2 forms. 2D run and gun platformer across a large map and a FPS which illustrates the same thing in a 3D plane.

Returnal was good in the shooting and platforming department yes. But the rest (art, level design, world building) was lacking. But being a rogue I can cut them some slack and wouldn't be opposed to give them a chance but it can't be because Sony.

Honestly it seems you just can't think outside the box. You build a bridge between Returnal and Metroid because of the similar settings and gameplay.
But you can't aknowledge AC gameplay would fit incredibly well too (and btw, it has auto lock too... so I guess your stick shift is corrected) because of slightly different settings because robots (yet you have no problem with all the robots in Dread...).

It's like you can't see that From can do organics enemies (Souls, or Bloodborne with Celestial enemies) AND Robots. I mean every studio can change a setting, it doesn't recquire any skills.

Metroid couldn't be a copy and paste from their previous Souls, Sekiro or AC or even just a mix.
It would require fine tuning, for an unique experience but they've showed exactly their ability to do that with new experiences like Sekiro or even AC who changed its gameplay to be more action and melee oriented.

Nintendo had surprised everyone with their Team Ninja collab on Other M. They could do it again with From Soft, IF they are interested.
Honestly, I'm sure Nintendo already knocked on their door, but were rejected because FS miht prefer to create new things rather than use existing IP that are not their own.

MercurySteam has done a poor job on Metroid. They were just easy to convince and needed contracts after their commercial flops. I'm sure Nintendo selected them because they were fucking cheap, and Metroid isn't gonna get a huge budget for a 2D game.
 

Spukc

always chasing the next thrill
Metroid is my favorite Nintendo series.

Super Metroid is the best one. Period.

Most of the new 2D episodes certainly won't top Super, and with Mercury Steam the 2D episodes are pretty much confined to a linear level design without substance and bad game design ideas. Dread was a 6 at best. Won't ever touch it again. We've had already too much 2D episodes, a new episode, like Dread, didn't bring nothing new to experience and wasn't even on par with games made 30 years ago by much smaller teams.

Prime was great. 2 was great. 3 was ok/mid.
With 3 FPS games, Prime series has nothing new to bring to the table. And Prime 4 certainly seems to be more of Prime 1-3.

The only way to make Metroid relevant, or at least, a fresh experience that respect the original gameplay and faithfully reproduce in 3D the 2D gameplay is to :

  • Make a 3D 3rd person game with a full controllable 3rd person camera (not like Other M, but like 3D Zelda)
  • Give Samus melee combat abilities (exemples : take inspiration from Smash bros for the hand to hand combat including grapple, give her a plasma saber...) on top of the numerous shooting abilities she already has.
  • Have 3 camera views, switch at any moment :
    • 3rd person Ninja Gaiden like camera for platforming and melee combat and shooting. Shooting would automatically lock on enemies, but can't aim precise parts like head or limbs. Basically works like shuriken (beam) or Fuma Shuriken (Missiles) in Ninja Gaiden or any Beam in Other M. Smaller enemies might are harder to hit in the beginning, but aim precision augments are obtainables
    • Toggable TPS view (by pressing L2) that allows precise aiming with a cursor but limited melee and movement including platforming
    • FPS view to analyse your environment with visors, not possible to move in this mode (like in Zelda OoT)
  • Make it a challenging game so you can feel the tension when exploring the map
  • More horror ambience. Prime was leaning way too much on contemplation and beautiful views. Almost zero horror or sense of dread like in Super. Not to say Metroid has to go full Resident Evil but it's inspired by Alien, so it should lean more towards it.
  • Make Samus really as agile as she is in 2D games. Again, Ninja Gaiden or Sekiro comes to mind with grapple and wall jumps. Don't forget speed booster and shine spark
  • Intricate level design, full of fakes walls and blocks to break. As in Souls (or you know, Zelda AlttP), use sound to know what wall is breakable by blasting at them. And of course also use graphical or level design hints for some.
  • Grapple : some surfaces can be grappled (like metal), some others can't (like rocks). I prefer this instead of having grappling points that hinder your movements. It's basically Tenchu or Shinobido instead of Sekiro.
  • Mix of big open zones on the surface of the planet, and narrow corridors underground (with some occasional open zones underground)
  • Do NOT neglect the OST or artistic direction

Give it to From Software.
They're the only one who can do it justice nowadays. They're good with 3rd person shooters (Armored Core), 3D action game (Sekiro), great progression system (Souls), top notch level design and artistic direction, are incredible environmental storytellers and they love dark themes.

Perfect match for Metroid.
Do a streetfighter 2 HD port of super metroid.

same framework. But added gfx. So all glitches work 1:1

Then add a randomizer mode.
Maybe metroid zero mission after game part.

Done
 

SteadyEvo

Member
Look at the sales data for each game in the series and it'll make more sense. Despite being critically acclaimed and considered a "top franchise" by fans and media, the games don't tend to be ultra high performers. Obviously exceptions for Super Metroid and Prime (and now Dread too thanks to the Switch bump), but as a whole the series is far down the list of Nintendo IP when it comes to who is actually buying and playing them
This. And im ok with the wait. Still have finished replaying Prime and Dread. I've restarted twice but walk away. By the time I return I have no idea where to go next. Love the game's though
 
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