PadWarrior
Member
Just got this a few days ago and love it! Really digging the parry.
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Metroid: Samus Returns |OT| What's past is prologue.
- Thread starter TheMoon
- Start date
molnizzle
Member
So instead of bombing every inch Im running room-to-room and activating my pulse while positioning myself to examine every inch. Same shit.
Honestly you should be banned for this type of condensing bullshit but Ill go ahead and respond before I put you on my ignore list.
Exploratory games are my favorite games. Stuff like Dark Souls, Breath of the Wild, 2D Castlevania, etc. Best games.
This game just does an incredibly shitty job of communicating its next direction. The aha! moment never comes. Im just running around for hours getting agitated by not finding the next route. I didn grow up playing this series so I have no nostalgia for this shit.
If Nintendo wants 2D Metroid to be a thing they should take some pointers from the GBA Castlevanias. Those games were wonderful.
I didn't first play the series until I was around 10/11, and even then I ddin't really have any big issues with finding where to go.
It's the main appeal of the series...isolation, getting lost in the atmosphere, etc. It's just not for you.
Samus Returns is one of the more linear entries... Super Metroid is often considered the high point by fans and is much more cross-crossy with navigation. If you are put off by the lack of direction try Fusion, but otherwise avoid this series.
I havent noticed Samus Returns being particularly bad at pointing the way forward. But I am familiar with the series. Maybe its that familiarity that makes exploration come more easily. I usually guess which blocks to hit because I recognize patterns I have seen before. Maybe it is different for newcomers.
I havent noticed Samus Returns being particularly bad at pointing the way forward. But I am familiar with the series. Maybe its that familiarity that makes exploration come more easily. I usually guess which blocks to hit because I recognize patterns I have seen before. Maybe it is different for newcomers.
I'm not against criticizing Metroid games for their faults, and I have issues with this entry myself, but using Castlevania as a better example of exploratory games is weird to me. I adore those games, but they're babby's first interconnected map game, focusing on doing cool stuff while traversing huge areas rather than having good level design and subtly guiding the player like Metroid. And again, I say this as someone who considers Aria of Sorrow one of his favorite games ever.
Dark Souls is a far better example as far as level design goes, but then again I don't think it's that focused on exploration as much as in freedom. Compared to Metroid anyway.
In SR not only is the scan pulse a thing (that ideally you shouldn't need to use often), but puzzles feel particularly more intuitive than before, so I'm not sure how one would struggle so much. Hell, I think it's the one Metroid game where I never got stuck.
Dark Souls is a far better example as far as level design goes, but then again I don't think it's that focused on exploration as much as in freedom. Compared to Metroid anyway.
In SR not only is the scan pulse a thing (that ideally you shouldn't need to use often), but puzzles feel particularly more intuitive than before, so I'm not sure how one would struggle so much. Hell, I think it's the one Metroid game where I never got stuck.
TheMoon
Member
No, you look at the map. The area of effect for the scan is huge. Nothing crucial to progressing requires you to spam every inch. Like I said, you're actively fighting it and now us by being needlessly stand-offish about this instead of just realizing you didn't use the tools you were explicitly given to deal with your problems. Because more than anything, the problem you're being loudest about does not actually exist.
I'm directionally challenged to the point I'm worried I may have brain damage or something, and I had no issues navigating this game or finding secrets.
I briefly got confused at the end of area 3 but only because there was an area I thought I needed an upgrade to cross which I didn't.
I briefly got confused at the end of area 3 but only because there was an area I thought I needed an upgrade to cross which I didn't.
molnizzle
Member
I mean you can believe whatever you want, but I've been playing video games for over 25 years now and I've been using everything at my disposal. In the 3rd "level" and haven't made progress for over 3 hours now. Just running around with no fucking idea where to go. No open doors on map that I can go through. No corners of map open that I can get to with current abilities. I'm literally just running around aimlessly.
If I can't figure it out, it's badly designed. Sorry.
What's your problem? finding Metroids to hunt?
molnizzle
Member
Finding any new area. Anything I haven't seen before.
And no, I don't want to look up a fucking guide. It's silly for that to be necessary.
Astral Dog
Member
You just need to explore a bit, the game can open up to three paths but with the tools available (like Metroid DNA, Scan) i only truly got lost once .
I don't understand, have you cleared all the Metroid in area 3?
molnizzle
Member
No.
Ok, I've never used it because I never had a problem however I believe if you jump into the area's shrine the game will tell you where is located the next Metroid.
Maybe other gaffers can confirm it.
EDIT:
Oh also the beeps will tell you when you are near a Metroid to hunt down (but you probably already know it).
molnizzle
Member
Yes, I see the husk. There's no opening around that area. Every wall is "hard" edged. No unexplored area. I must be supposed to get there from some other part of the map, but there are like 4 different connected areas to this level and I have no idea where to look. I'm just running around aimlessly.
Mmmh, I have a hard time give you a suggestion without knowing what part of the area you are talking about.
Any chance you can do a photo of the map where you are supposed to go?
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Try the ceiling in front of a sealed door.
molnizzle
Member
Appreciate it, but Id rather get through it on my own.
Ill try this though...
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
Finally was able to borrow my brother's 3DS to play this.
Holy crap I love this game.
Holy crap I love this game.
Green Mamba
Member
Just finished another playthrough, 3:07:22 with 100%. Getting faster and just about there to remembering the items without a map or Scan Pulse--forgot about only two items that required looking at a map. I just find this game to be so addicting.
Green Mamba
Member
Yeah, I know, never really could force myself to skip items in Metroid though.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
If enemies didn't take so many hits this game would've been great! Up there with Super and Zero Mission.
Freeze and missile made short work of everything early game for me until I had the plasma gun, never really needed to parry other than bosses.
Wolfe
Member
I know you're banned and all at the moment but wow at this part, I really hope you come back and reread this sentence and can get a grasp on how ridiculous it sounds.
"I don't understand/get this thing, therefore it is poorly designed/bad"
"Sorry not sorry."
That's not how it works.
Back on topic: I'm almost 20% though my first playthough, with almost 8 hours played lol. I love these games and can easily spend hours exploring and checking things out, so nice being able to play Metroid II now without the frustrations of the GB version from when I was a kid.
StarCreator
Member
If you hear beeping right after using scan pulse it means there is a breakable wall in the current room, within scan range.
I really don't know what else to tell you. I never got stuck for more than 10 minutes at a time in my playthrough, let alone three hours. I didn't check anything online until
the Diggernaut encounters
If you want to proceed expeditely you need to rely on counter + one hit.
Every normal enemy will last 2-3 seconds at most.
This is the intended way for the developer that's why normal enemies usually have enough health to survive the preemptive shooting and attack you.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
The problem is that it gets repetitive rather quickly. I've also been replaying Super Metroid recently and almost every enemy early game takes one hit and it flows much better as a result.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
honestly you only need freeze + missile
once you get the better laser you don't need to do that
once you get the better laser you don't need to do that
I caved in and got the digital version, I really prefer physical but around here it goes for double the price and is nowhere to be found anyway.
I'm loving everything except the warp points, I always thought it was such lazy design from metroidvanias, Metroid games usually have this cohesive, brilliant level design in which you thought you were lost in some advanced area of the game and with some exploration you find yourself in the first or second area you visited, everything interconnected, it's such an awesome, uniquely "Metroid" feeling, this hostile world was kicking your ass but slowly you are ruling the whole thing.
I guess this was a way to solve the obtuse level design of the original Metroid II? I remember how cumbersome it was to navigate.
I also found weird that the get item sound is straight out of Metroid Prime, and the death sound straight from Super Metroid, usually you have a variant of them with their unique take according to the game's soundtrack. I wouldn't call it lazy because the game is polished everywhere, but it's just weird.
I'm loving everything except the warp points, I always thought it was such lazy design from metroidvanias, Metroid games usually have this cohesive, brilliant level design in which you thought you were lost in some advanced area of the game and with some exploration you find yourself in the first or second area you visited, everything interconnected, it's such an awesome, uniquely "Metroid" feeling, this hostile world was kicking your ass but slowly you are ruling the whole thing.
I guess this was a way to solve the obtuse level design of the original Metroid II? I remember how cumbersome it was to navigate.
I also found weird that the get item sound is straight out of Metroid Prime, and the death sound straight from Super Metroid, usually you have a variant of them with their unique take according to the game's soundtrack. I wouldn't call it lazy because the game is polished everywhere, but it's just weird.
Green Mamba
Member
One more playthrough, 2:56:29 with 100%, somehow shaved eleven minutes off my previous time somehow. I think I might be finally burnt out on the game.
...right after this next playthrough.
...right after this next playthrough.
A bit disappointed by this 
I understand the EDGE review.
I'm going through the motions.
Killing 40 metroids is repetitive, the fights are all similar, the abilities are all old (Except for the aeon abilities but they're not fun to use except rapid fire), the enemies are all identical, the exploration kinda useless most of the time as you need a new ability to get the hidden items, so you save exploration for when you have all the power-ups, the music is mostly a rehash, I don't find the areas very distinctive.
The formula needs a good shape up IMO or I won't buy the next one and I'm a huge fan.
Compared to Zelda and Mario, Metroid hasn't evolved enough.
I understand the EDGE review.
I'm going through the motions.
Killing 40 metroids is repetitive, the fights are all similar, the abilities are all old (Except for the aeon abilities but they're not fun to use except rapid fire), the enemies are all identical, the exploration kinda useless most of the time as you need a new ability to get the hidden items, so you save exploration for when you have all the power-ups, the music is mostly a rehash, I don't find the areas very distinctive.
The formula needs a good shape up IMO or I won't buy the next one and I'm a huge fan.
Compared to Zelda and Mario, Metroid hasn't evolved enough.
A bit disappointed by this
I understand the EDGE review.
I'm going through the motions.
Killing 40 metroids is repetitive, the fights are all similar, the abilities are all old (Except for the aeon abilities but they're not fun to use except rapid fire), the enemies are all identical, the exploration kinda useless most of the time as you need a new ability to get the hidden items, so you save exploration for when you have all the power-ups, the music is mostly a rehash, I don't find the areas very distinctive.
The formula needs a good shape up IMO or I won't buy the next one and I'm a huge fan.
Compared to Zelda and Mario, Metroid hasn't evolved enough.
Since this was just a remake, i think we can be hopeful that Nintendo will be very inventive with a follow up. Seeing as they were with Breath of the Wild and now Mario Odyssey.
Though despite some shortcomings, i enjoyed my time with Samus Returns very much.
It's kinda weird that despite agreeing on all those faults, I still think the game is fantastic, huh, never thought about it.
The areas do get more unique as you progress though, some of the endgame ones are both stunning and have great music (I did like the whole soundtrack though).
The areas do get more unique as you progress though, some of the endgame ones are both stunning and have great music (I did like the whole soundtrack though).
.la1n
Member
The criticisms are mostly warranted but I couldn't be bothered because the game play and exploration was so damn fun. Having said that; there is always a place for constructive criticism in the best of games.
Finished this last night ~11 hours with 100% collection rate. Pretty good game; much better than Mercury Steam's 3DS Castlevania game. I don't think I'll be replaying this one; it seems a bit long and linear (with
sequential areas) for the genre. I would be curious to see what kind of times speed runners can get with this game. Sub 2 hours feels possible though maybe harder than with games like Super Metroid or Zero Mission.
Overall, I feel like the weak point with the game is the boss battles. There are a lot of Metroid mini bosses that are pretty tedious to fight; they have a lot of health and don't give you an opportunity to parry very often (or in some cases, more than once ever). The "real" bosses have the same problems but are less repetitive due to their being unique. Samus generally feels too fragile, and repeating boss fights a couple of times to learn patterns (especially on multi-phase bosses) is not much fun here because the boss behaviors are so repetitive.
I'm also not super keen on the parry mechanic being the optimal way to fight most common enemies; that tends to slow down the pace of exploration.
Overall Samus Returns is still quite good. It feels like a real Metroid game, which is not something I expected to play in 2017.
8
Overall, I feel like the weak point with the game is the boss battles. There are a lot of Metroid mini bosses that are pretty tedious to fight; they have a lot of health and don't give you an opportunity to parry very often (or in some cases, more than once ever). The "real" bosses have the same problems but are less repetitive due to their being unique. Samus generally feels too fragile, and repeating boss fights a couple of times to learn patterns (especially on multi-phase bosses) is not much fun here because the boss behaviors are so repetitive.
I'm also not super keen on the parry mechanic being the optimal way to fight most common enemies; that tends to slow down the pace of exploration.
Overall Samus Returns is still quite good. It feels like a real Metroid game, which is not something I expected to play in 2017.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
They're pretty much required. The only one you can pass on is the scan.
It actually kinda irritates me since the game is balanced around (and the counter) them to the point the old standbys are nearly useless.
TheMoon
Member
E3 is still stuck in your memory where they only showed the scan and say that it is optional, which it is. But the others are not.
Finished this within a leisurely 13 hours, will be going back to get my completion rate to 100%. Overall I was very pleased with how this turned out, it's a very accomplished metroid.
The bright colour palette was welcome, I guess this was chosen to reduce 3D ghosting, but it really helped bring areas to life. 3D and environment were gorgeous (despite the 3DS screen).
Bosses were formulaic, hit too hard and were spongy. I died a lot, and my patience was tested, but they were fun, and cracking the patterns was gratifying. Not sure how I feel about going back to face hard mode - Samus was squishy enough already... but it's calling me back in.
The bright colour palette was welcome, I guess this was chosen to reduce 3D ghosting, but it really helped bring areas to life. 3D and environment were gorgeous (despite the 3DS screen).
Bosses were formulaic, hit too hard and were spongy. I died a lot, and my patience was tested, but they were fun, and cracking the patterns was gratifying. Not sure how I feel about going back to face hard mode - Samus was squishy enough already... but it's calling me back in.
I feel similarly. While I enjoyed the fact that the Diggernaut, Metroid Queen,
and Ridley
I also felt the difficulty spiked toward the end of the game. I was pretty much cruising through the game thinking, this isn't difficult at all, then the Diggernaut put me in my place. I'm no stranger to difficult boss battles, but the difference in difficulty between standard enemies and mini-bosses compared to the "real" bosses was off-putting.
Overall, I am happy I completed the game. It was good, but not great.
I didn't really have an issue with those bosses - Ridley in particular I thought was very well balanced, and with Diggernaut the damage scaling was a bigger issue - for a highly formulaic, three-phase boss; the more trial and error approach it encouraged through multiple restarts felt like a poor fit with the rest of its design; while the amount of hits it took per phase didn't seem like the same kind of obstacle. Ridley's heavily telegraphed but somewhat varying attacks and freedom of movement felt like a setup that complemented that kind of approach, whereas Diggernaut's more static and scripted design was significantly less fun to learn and repeat.
My most significant complaint with the game is still the largely unremarkable music and certain questionable sound design choices - going forward, I hope that the former was a misguided attempt to translate Metroid II's ambience (despite little else about its environments' atmosphere remaining consistent between the games...) rather than being indicative of what we'll be hearing in Prime 4 and any potential 2D Metroids that might come into existence before the series hits its next period of stasis.
My most significant complaint with the game is still the largely unremarkable music and certain questionable sound design choices - going forward, I hope that the former was a misguided attempt to translate Metroid II's ambience (despite little else about its environments' atmosphere remaining consistent between the games...) rather than being indicative of what we'll be hearing in Prime 4 and any potential 2D Metroids that might come into existence before the series hits its next period of stasis.
Area 2 has Arachnus. Area 4 could've used a new boss, though I suppose Diggernaut Chase and Zeta's first appearance makes up for that. So that leaves 3, 5, which are probably the two biggest areas in the game already, or 1, which might've been a bit early.
Go away you racist.
Astral Dog
Member
Im dissapointed there isn,t new Samus Return suitless Samus concept art except for the copypasted Zero Mission/Other M look
Hard Mode is almost the same you wont notice any difference tbh.as you know the patterns
i would have liked more health on the Metroids at least because those are fun to fight
Hard Mode is almost the same you wont notice any difference tbh.as you know the patterns
i would have liked more health on the Metroids at least because those are fun to fight
At least one more non-Metroid boss earlier on in the game would have been enough for variety. The size of 3 and 5 also could be argued to be points towards having their own unique bosses from a pacing standpoint rather than being detrimental - tying a boss into the Screw Attack or Gravity Suit acquisition would have functioned well.
Im dissapointed there isn,t new Samus Return suitless Samus concept art except for the copypasted Zero Mission/Other M look
I was pleasantly surprised by them integrating the Fusion and Metroid 1 suitless outfits as well, but the use of the stock Zero Suit over something new is probably another side-effect of the game having to re-establish the baseline for Metroid. The Zero Suit is never going away, but future games might be able to include other outfits alongside it, like Other M's military and casual costumes and Zero Mission's orange variant of the Fusion outfit.
Your point on boss battles is contradictory. You only need to repeat the boss battles the first few fights or so, and because they repeat each other you get better at the fights. I understand knocking it down for the repetion of bosses in of itself, but you should have masted the fights by the repeats. Thus I disagree on the unique boss fights, or more specifically on the Diggernaut.
The fragility is fine when you can practically convert your aeon to health
Astral Dog
Member
yeah forgot about the Fusion suit, i get this is a small remake but would have been nice to see Samus new look, but thats probably until Prime 4