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[Tatsumi Oga]

Too many tabloid junkies in here.Glad there are at least a few people, like you, in here that engage in critical thinking and deal in facts.

Joke post. You have to bend logic to make a convincing argument that Michael Jackson was guilty.

Exactly that man. It's clear that some people here just won't even bother to look things up themselves. They rather just resort to things like.....

oh please tell me which other completely imaginary unlikely things you believe in, this should be a good list

^ things like that for example.

I will never deny that the man was different, we all know that, but that doesn't make him guilty. Reasons he could be guilty....

- Made a settlement with the accuser in the 90's (do read up on this though, because there were good reasons for him to do that, plus this also did NOT mean the accuser couldn't do anything anymore. I believe they could have pursued a civil lawsuit..but never did. Gee i wonder.....

- Built Neverland, so he could destroy the lives of children. (LMAO) if we go by that, there should have been countless of accusers and victims. Not counting the ones that were proven to be either disgruntled ex-maids/bodyguards and were proven to be liars on the stand.

As i said before...the dude was a big kid himself, loved stuff like theme parks. Built his own for himself, but also for sick children to enjoy a day without any worries. I believe the dude even said it himself.

- Admitted to sharing bed with children. People like to only mention that it were boys, but that's stupid as hell. He should not have said this on TV, but at the same time a sexual predator would not openly admit to this on TV.

The families of these children obviously were ok with these sleepovers. Would i let that happen? Nope i wouldn't. Do this however automatically mean he abused the children? It sure as hell don;t. If you want to call that naive, i don't give a shit really. MJ also said...he would sleep on the floor and kids would use his bed.

- The accuser in the 90's and 00's....

Well i can keep that one short...DO RESEARCH of your own and find out how full of shit the 00 family was and how much was completely off about the 90's family. Good luck reading, it's a long read, but at least you;ll have a fucking clue wtf you are talking about.

Come with more 'reasons' and i'll give you my view on it.

It;s actually quite easy to show that the chances of the guy being innocent are pretty big and the chances of him being this sick sexual rapist predator quite slim really. If you decide to take the time and read up on things. If you just want to believe everything, no matter what the source...i won't bother with you.

 

[CountAntonius]

I always thought Michael wanted to be so close to children because he was robbed of his childhood. He idolized Peter Pan and built a amusement park in his house. He was fragile and mentally abused his entire life. Obviously on the surface it all seemed so obvious but I will admit I didn't want to believe someone so gentle could be so monstrous. But if the evidence supports it there is no denying or excusing it.

 

[TaterTots]

I like that you countered a massive article with the same documentary that has been torn apart by critics and for which Bashir himself admitted didn't make him think MJ was guilty of anything. This documentary was made from the outset for the specific purpose of making Michael Jackson look bad.

The thing that was way off with Michael Jackson was that he had a rough upbringing a sought to fix that by spending a lot of time with children, some of whom were not family members, this was a grave mistake on his part. Two children's parents exploited his frankly reckless, child-like mentality on his own behaviour.

I see your other post about how allegations began after the documentary. You do realize this has been off and on since the early 90's, right? I'm not sure what to say about the bold part of your post. Even though you call it a mistake you almost defend it by giving me his sad story.

 

[Arnie7]

nvm

 

[Robso]

Exactly that man. It's clear that some people here just won't even bother to look things up themselves. They rather just resort to things like.....



^ things like that for example.

I will never deny that the man was different, we all know that, but that doesn't make him guilty. Reasons he could be guilty....

- Made a settlement with the accuser in the 90's (do read up on this though, because there were good reasons for him to do that, plus this also did NOT mean the accuser couldn't do anything anymore. I believe they could have pursued a civil lawsuit..but never did. Gee i wonder.....

- Built Neverland, so he could destroy the lives of children. (LMAO) if we go by that, there should have been countless of accusers and victims. Not counting the ones that were proven to be either disgruntled ex-maids/bodyguards and were proven to be liars on the stand.

As i said before...the dude was a big kid himself, loved stuff like theme parks. Built his own for himself, but also for sick children to enjoy a day without any worries. I believe the dude even said it himself.

- Admitted to sharing bed with children. People like to only mention that it were boys, but that's stupid as hell. He should not have said this on TV, but at the same time a sexual predator would not openly admit to this on TV.

The families of these children obviously were ok with these sleepovers. Would i let that happen? Nope i wouldn't. Do this however automatically mean he abused the children? It sure as hell don;t. If you want to call that naive, i don't give a shit really. MJ also said...he would sleep on the floor and kids would use his bed.

- The accuser in the 90's and 00's....

Well i can keep that one short...DO RESEARCH of your own and find out how full of shit the 00 family was and how much was completely off about the 90's family. Good luck reading, it's a long read, but at least you;ll have a fucking clue wtf you are talking about.

Just to add to this great post. Michael Jackson wanted the criminal trial to go before the civil trial in 1994 yet this was rejected. Why would a guilty man want to face a criminal trial?

 

[Ash Sparrow]

Robso I hope people will actually take time to read your posts, brilliant details.

There was another interesting snippet in the Feldman book. He said when he was being interviewed by the LAPD he told them MJ never touched him, but then he named the people who had been abusing him, and seargent asking him questions didn't seem to care one bit...

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

You guys know you're allowed to still like his music without making horrible contortionist logic conspiracy theory posts to convince yourself he didn't fuck children, right?

Nah, respectfully disagree.
Looked at the documents: some of those books are quite disturbing and he had so many of them.

 

[Piston Hyundai]

- Admitted to sharing bed with children. People like to only mention that it were boys, but that's stupid as hell.

jesus christ

 

[dakun]

Not surprising people go into denial mode. I mean even after all these years you have people still defending Hitler, OJ and Cosby ect.

Hitler.. damn dude. That's heavy stuff.. i'm sure those denying have some hard evidence supporting their case like people here do..

or was that just an incredibly stupid comparison to make?

 

[BossLackey]

Wacko Jacko

 

[Robso]

Robso I hope people will actually take time to read your posts, brilliant details.

There was another interesting snippet in the Feldman book. He said when he was being interviewed by the LAPD he told them MJ never touched him, but then he named the people who had been abusing him, and seargent asking him questions didn't seem to care one bit...

Yep. They didn't care whatsoever. It's not very well known that Feldman named his abuser to police. There is audio from his police interview on Youtube. Apparently the police officer said 'oh, that's a shame' when Feldman named his abuser.

 

[Twilight Gap]

Hitler.. damn dude

Godwin's Law in MJ thread

Bless

 

[The Beard]

Just to add to this great post. Michael Jackson wanted the criminal trial to go before the civil trial in 1994 yet this was rejected. Why would a guilty man want to face a criminal trial?

Megalomania? Ignorance? Tons of money to spend on lawyers?

Why would a grown man go on tv and profess his love for little kids, and admit to sleeping in the same bed with them behind closed doors?

Dude was not normal, at all.

 

[Syder]

I see your other post about how allegations began after the documentary. You do realize this has been off and on since the early 90's, right? I'm not sure what to say about the bold part of your post. Even though you call it a mistake you almost defend it by giving me his sad story.

No, you're incorrect. Two children since '93 have accused him. The tabloids work in cycles, you think it's on and off because the tabloids got bored of it and then came back to it at later dates in order to make money.

 

[ZeroMaverick]

Ain't right, man. This shit ain't right.

 

[freenudemacusers]

Not surprising people go into denial mode. I mean even after all these years you have people still defending Hitler, OJ and Cosby ect.

Comparing MJ to hitler is ridiculous, nobody is gonna listen to mein kampf in their car. However Hitler did nurture young boys so he wasn't all bad.

 

[Coreda]

This article is the most disturbing thing in this thread.

The breakdown of events is something else. Shows how little I knew of the background to the case.

 

[Syder]

This man wasn't naive about sexual abuse.

When he wrote the song 'Do You Know Where Your Children Are?' during the Bad recording sessions. Despite the upbeat tempo this is a dark song, written with the intention of highlighting an important issue.

She wrote that she is tired of step-daddy using her
Saying that he'll buy her things, while sexually abusing her
Just think that she's all alone somewhere out on the street
How will this girl survive?
She ain't got nothing to eat

This man cared deeply about children from abusive and underprivileged backgrounds.

Not surprising people go into denial mode. I mean even after all these years you have people still defending Hitler, OJ and Cosby ect.

That it. Compare three completely different cases... including.. Hitler? Wow, dude.

 

[Robso]

Megalomania? Ignorance? Tons of money to spend on lawyers?

Why would a grown man go on tv and profess his love for little kids, and admit to sleeping in the same bed with them behind closed doors?

Dude was not normal, at all.

I don't understand your 'tons of money to spend on lawyers?'. That has no relevance to wanting a criminal trial before a civil.

I think it was totally unwise for him to sleep in the same bed as children. The unfortunate thing is children always wanted to be around him and would ask to sleep in the same room. He should of said no!

However, no molester tells the whole world they sleep in the same bed as children if they're molesting them. He told Ed Bradley in 2004, with a trial looming, and potential jurors watching, that it was innocent and he did nothing wrong.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Comparing MJ to hitler is ridiculous, nobody is gonna listen to mein kampf in their car. However Hitler did nurture young boys so he wasn't all bad.

http://www.audible.com/pd/Bios-Memo...-Audiobook/B009AEUECG?ipRedirectOverride=true

 

[LionPride]

Megalomania? Ignorance? Tons of money to spend on lawyers?

Why would a grown man go on tv and profess his love for little kids, and admit to sleeping in the same bed with them behind closed doors?

Dude was not normal, at all.

You wouldn't be normal if you had a non existing childhood either

 

[Bobby Roberts]

However, no molester tells the whole world they sleep in the same bed as children if they're molesting them. He told Ed Bradley in 2004, with a trial looming, that it was innocent and not wrong.

And yet he never told anyone he worked on the Sonic 3 soundtrack.

It really makes you wonder.

 

[Wolfe]

Comparing MJ to hitler is ridiculous, nobody is gonna listen to mein kampf in their car.

*slowly ejects burnt CD from car stereo...*

JK I don't have a car lolol.

And yet he never told anyone he worked on the Sonic 3 soundtrack.

It really makes you wonder.

Thanks for ruining MJ for me.

 

[The Beard]

You wouldn't be normal if you had a non existing childhood either

No doubt about that. None of us would be.

 

[Tatsumi Oga]

Not surprising people go into denial mode. I mean even after all these years you have people still defending Hitler, OJ and Cosby ect.

Hahahahaha.

Good freaking lord...i don't even.....jesus.

jesus christ

You sure you didn;t want to quite the person above?

I said that because people conveniently like to only mention boys, as in that MJ only had a friendship with boys, only had boys visiting Neverland and so on. Nothing 'jesus christ' about this.

Just to add to this great post. Michael Jackson wanted the criminal trial to go before the civil trial in 1994 yet this was rejected. Why would a guilty man want to face a criminal trial?

Exactly that. Ah man there's just so much of that stuff. Do these folks just don;t want to see it? Frustrating as hell really.

Robso I hope people will actually take time to read your posts, brilliant details.

There was another interesting snippet in the Feldman book. He said when he was being interviewed by the LAPD he told them MJ never touched him, but then he named the people who had been abusing him, and seargent asking him questions didn't seem to care one bit...

Really good posts indeed.

I find it absolutely hilarious but also shocking that so many people seem to either ignore this, just don't care or write it off like ''being in denial''.

Pathetic even, i'm sorry.

Comparing this to Hitler, OJ....oh man this is just comedy really.

 

[Robso]

Hahahahaha.

Good freaking lord...i don't even.....jesus.



You sure you didn;t want to quite the person above?

I said that because people conveniently like to only mention boys, as in that MJ only had a friendship with boys, only had boys visiting Neverland and so on. Nothing 'jesus christ' about this.



Exactly that. Ah man there's just so much of that stuff. Do these folks just don;t want to see it? Frustrating as hell really.



Really good posts indeed.

I find it absolutely hilarious but also shocking that so many people seem to either ignore this, just don't care or write it off like ''being in denial''.

Pathetic even, i'm sorry.

Comparing this to Hitler, OJ....oh man this is just comedy really.

Some won't ever change their minds. They laugh and joke about it and deem people who've read both sides, books, articles, court motions, court transcripts and more in denial.

I've read the story from both sides. I've read the Uncle's book where he jokes about Jordan being abused at Disneyland 'in the best suite Mickey Mouse had to offer'.

 

[Piston Hyundai]

You sure you didn;t want to quite the person above?

I said that because people conveniently like to only mention boys, as in that MJ only had a friendship with boys, only had boys visiting Neverland and so on. Nothing 'jesus christ' about this.

do you

do you not even realize what's wrong with what I quoted

 

[Kai Dracon]

Regardless of what Jackson did or didn't do, the hard truth is that he was exceptionally messed up due to his own childhood, and grew into an adult who looked and acted so weird, it will always be easiest for many people to assume he must have been secretly perverted and evil. A crate of videos recording 24/7 surveillance of Jackson's bedroom could be discovered, which visually confirmed he slept alone in his bed every night for his entire life. A huge number of people would just say he must have performed vile acts somewhere else, when nobody was looking.

It's a reason he made such a tempting target for blackmail.

 

[Putyouinmyoven]

Just remember, Daddy Joe Jackson is still the real monster here people!

 

[Red Liquorice]

You also realise that MJ actually wanted nothing to do with the Arvizo's. He only wanted them for the documentary.

And you consider this a good thing?

This PDA with a minor, much like the embarassingly transparent PDAs with Presley are orchestrated by a man who thinks he knows how to play the media, but has no one around him to give him an outsiders view of his nutty schemes. He though it was a good idea to set up a media event where he sat hand in hand snuggling up to a young boy whilst discussing the virtues of being a 45 year old man sleeping in the same bed as children who were not related to him. A 45 year old man who for a decade previous had had allegations of child molestation brought against him? To think this would look anything other than suspicious at best and down right rubbing his perversions in the face of the world at worst is a gross mis-judgement.

He was a fruitcake, and he had no counsel around him to tell him what a fruitcake he was or to tell him to get help - he was too rich to reach - either those around him relied on him for their own income or they were got rid of for pointing out the emperor (and his young ward) had no clothes.

That some people excuse this as nothing but Peter Pan syndrome illustrates to me how spellbound people can get by fame and hero worship.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

do you

do you not even realize what's wrong with what I quoted

Don't worry bro, MJ was just comforting them in his bed. Its not like these pornographic books, some quite messed up and even including children, found all over the place are quite worrying.

 

[Tatsumi Oga]

This man wasn't naive about sexual abuse.

When he wrote the song 'Do You Know Where Your Children Are?' during the Bad recording sessions. Despite the upbeat tempo this is a dark song, written with the intention of highlighting an important issue.



This man cared deeply about children from abusive and underprivileged backgrounds.

That it. Compare three completely different cases... including.. Hitler? Wow, dude.

Yep and he got more lyrics like that. During the Bashir interview he also said something and none of these naysayers here are mentioning it but it was very true. MJ said there wasn't enough caring in the world, parents not having enough time for their children, broken families and so on.

There are books written by him where he talks about things, what his goal in life was. Before performing shows he would go to hospitals to talk with terminal children, to sign autographcs and simply being their hero for a few minutes.

These naysayers should watch the footage that was released after his death where we see him spending time with his children, celebrating christmas.

Yeah looks like a damn child molester there. There is just so much other stuff out there, but people must be willing to actually bother with it and take the time to read it. It's sad how little people here clearly know.

 

[Wolfe]

Some won't ever change their minds. They laugh and joke about it and deem people who've read both sides, books, articles, court motions, court transcripts and more in denial.

It's pretty telling when you have a thread like this with information that is old and was present at the trial itself, reading the OP/snipets of the article and then say something along the lines of how he's now ruined in their eyes and they can't enjoy his work anymore.

What? If that's the case shouldn't that have been your stance since 93 or at the very least 2005 or whenever the second trial was?

 

[borghe]

So this is nothing and is just old stuff brought up from the 2005 case?

correct. aka the same sheriff's department that persecuted and demonized him in the first now sharing their files for some post-mortem retribution.

there is definitely sleaze here... and I'm not sure how much of it rests on Jackson.

Can't even say he was sick. There is literally no evidence of him ever doing anything, and no one except for the one family who has openly come forward.. and that one family was proven to have.... dubious... motives (well the mom at least)

thought we moved past this.. but clearly not.

 

[Tatsumi Oga]

Don't worry bro, MJ was just comforting them in his bed. Its not like these pornographic books, some quite messed up and even including children, found all over the place are quite worrying.

And even more bullshit.

There was nothing pornographic about these books. Unless i missed any, these were legal art books and were far from that can be considered pornography.

And these weren't found all over the place.

It's ok though. The jury and judge clearly didn't find this horrible pornography bad enough to lock this sick fuck up, right?

lol.

 

[Beefy]

This thread...

 

[Tatsumi Oga]

correct. aka the same sheriff's department that persecuted and demonized him in the first now sharing their files for some post-mortem retribution.

there is definitely sleaze here... and I'm not sure how much of it rests on Jackson.

Can't even say he was sick. There is literally no evidence of him ever doing anything, and no one except for the one family who has openly come forward.. and that one family was proven to have.... dubious... motives (well the mom at least)

thought we moved past this.. but clearly not.

Yep. I am genuinely shocked by the comments from some people.

It's pretty telling when you have a thread like this with information that is old and was present at the trial itself, reading the OP/snipets of the article and then say something along the lines of how he's now ruined in their eyes and they can't enjoy his work anymore.

What? If that's the case shouldn't that have been your stance since 93 or at the very least 2005 or whenever the second trial was?

Very good point there!

I guess they started 'caring' about the dude and his music again after his death or something, for some reason believing all of a sudden that he didn't do it. But....now they do again.

When those 2003 allegations appeared i decided to closely follow everything, did tons of research on the 93 case and so on and things really became damn clear for me there. But i realize.....all the people here stating cold hard facts, you know..the people who actually know what the hell they are talking about..........are just in denial.

 

[Syder]

And you consider this a good thing?

This PDA with a minor, much like the embarassingly transparent PDAs with Presley are orchestrated by a man who thinks he knows how to play the media, but has no one around him to give him an outsiders view of his nutty schemes. He though it was a good idea to set up a media event where he sat hand in hand snuggling up to a young boy whilst discussing the virtues of being a 45 year old man sleeping in the same bed as children who were not related to him. A 45 year old man who for a decade previous had had allegations of child molestation brought against him? To think this would look anything other than suspicious at best and down right rubbing his perversions in the face of the world at worst is a gross mis-judgement.

He was a fruitcake, and he had no counsel around him to tell him what a fruitcake he was or to tell him to get help - he was too rich to reach - either those around him relied on him for their own income or they were got rid of for pointing out the emperor (and his young ward) had no clothes.

That some people excuse this as nothing but Peter Pan syndrome illustrates to me how spellbound people can get by fame and hero worship.

...and your post illustrates how people like to buy into a narrative and never budge from it. I've never seen anyone come back from researching Michael Jackson's two accusers extensively thinking he was guilty. Never.

 

[Deft Beck]

This isn't new information at all. And it wasn't considered porngraphy.

Regardless, MJ was very troubled due to Joe Jackson.

 

[Proelite]

Can we update the blatantly incorrect title?

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

Didn't the psychologist who was in the middle of this and the original allegation say he didn't actually believe Jackson was a pedo but a "regressed 10-year-old"? Also weren't those payouts through Jackson's insurance, at least the original, despite his and his legal team's protests? Evan Chandler also seemed to be a piece of shit himself.

Anyone remember when Paul Reubens got arrested in 2002 for possession of child porn as part of the Jeffrey Jones case for the collection of "kitsch" images and other things he owned?

This shit came out during the trial and I'm pretty sure so did the name of the material he had. If the authorities had evidence of actual, legitimate kiddy porn in Jackson's possession they would've absolutely prosecuted him on it too seeing how much of a hard on DA Tom Sneddon had for taking Jackson down. It's not as if Jackson had was winning in the court of public opinion after the 1993 allegations pretty much ruined him.

Sexual attraction to 15-19yos is called ephebophilia, FYI. And it's exceptionally common, even on this forum.

Just clearing that up for some posters in this thread.

Yeah... This fact won't fly well here, the outraged mobs already have torches lit and their pitch forks in hand and don't care, proper medical or even legal definition be damned, ephebophile is just a fancier way of saying pedophile, they even have a Youtube pronunciation video to prove it.

 

[Syder]

Also weren't those payouts through Jackson's insurance, at least the original, despite his and his legal team's protests?

Yes, the payment was made by the insurance company for the Dangerous Tour. The accusations were made when MJ was on the South American part of the Tour and the insurance company didn't want Michael going to court mid-tour.

 

[Boke1879]

Some people will forever think he was guilty but nononenwill truly every know aside from him and his supposed accusers.

He was a troubled individual and did some very odd things.

Idk I feel if this was his MO and the public nature of those trials. You'd have people speaking out now. More people than the 2.

Look at Cosby. It was a domino effect. Idk MJ did some questionable things and I certainly wouldn't let my kid sleep in anyone else's bed but at the end of the day those claims against him had very little merit.

 

[The Illiterati]

People that look at the edited pictures posted in the OP's links and aren't disgusted or ill from it....

The people in this thread who are defending this are one and all massing in my ignore filter. Delusional.

 

[Tatsumi Oga]

The lack of articles from the proper news sources, not counting tabloid,celebrity stalking sites, says a lot about all of this.

Do folks forget that the prosecution had all this information? Thomas Sneddon, the DA wanted MJ locked up and would not have hesitated in adding more charges. But there were zero images of abuse (child or animal). There was nothing illegal in those books. Actually....several of those can be found in the libraries.

This is literally a sad attempt to make old news, new news for money.

For all the people who actually want to bother (and i wish the OP can edit this in the first post)

http://michaeljacksonallegations.co...aterial-found-in-michael-jacksons-possession/

That is concerning this stuff.

That site has tons of information about both cases. Do yourself a favor and read up on it.


http://michaeljacksonallegations.com/


You will find out how much of this shit does not add up at all. Things really aren't as simple as you think they are. And again like i said...NONE of us can know for sure if he was innocent or guilty, only he and the accusers know that, but based on all this information i can only come to one conclusion.

READ!

 

[SenorArdilla]

For a moment there I thought this thread was necrobumped from 2003.

 

[ASIS]

So I leave for a few hours and comeback to see its been debunked again.

Thank god! MJ is still staying in my avatar!

 

[Red Liquorice]

- Admitted to sharing bed with children. People like to only mention that it were boys, but that's stupid as hell. He should not have said this on TV, but at the same time a sexual predator would not openly admit to this on TV.

Yes, because everyone knows being a bisexual pedophile is so much more socially acceptable and right than being a homosexual one.

As for not openly admitting it on TV, there is such a thing as hiding in plain sight - did you ever see the Louis Theroux Jimmy Saville documentary?

 

[Always-honest]

Ugh... that would be so disgusting if true. Not that i trusted him anyway, but this makes me feel sick.
I thought there just wasn't any proof.

Anyway, i hope this is not true. It's too shocking and disgusting.

 

[The Illiterati]

Oh my god I love that him admitting to sharing his bed with children is being used as a point AGAINST him being a pedophile.

Just read that over and over!