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[darkinstinct]

Thread title is wrong. Having read the first forty pages of the pdf it should say "Michael Jackson had a collection of legally obtained pornographic books and magazines with pictures of children, teens, men, women, transsexuals" and of all kinds of sexual interactivity. As disturbing as some of those pictures are, apparantly they were legal at the time.

 

[qcf x2]

Some of the highlighted stuff is so weak. Google Kelly Klein "Underworld" and you'll see it's a book of underwear shoots cultivated by Calvin Klein's ex-wife. "Room to Play" looks like horror-movie material, not sexualized. To describe them the way the sheriff supposedly did screams agenda.

But based on his training, ...

You would think somebody with his financial means could have acquired actual CP or worse, victims of human trafficking instead of artsy books that would potentially have been found in libraries. This guy went all around the world many, many times but how many accusations did he receive outside of then-lawsuit-happy America? Legit question, I don't know the answer.

 

[Boem]

Have you read the doc? I didn't see this listed in the items though I did see books of nude photos, found in his bedroom.

Also so far can't confirm the allegations in article listed in the first post of 'child torture' which is bolded in the OP. Have asked other posters who've read the PDF and they haven't either.

Nope, not all of it. Frankly too disturbing for me. Had to quit after the first set of pictures of (thankfully censored) child nudity. It may not fall under the law's definition of child pornography, but it definitely isn't normal. All that tells us is that his defense found a loophole and used it. Looking at it through our own eyes, I can't see any way to excuse it.

Also remember that it isn't the complete collection of evidence - it's just 88 pages. The actual documents would have been hundreds of pages.

 

[Clockwork]

Nope, not all of it. Frankly too disturbing for me. Had to quit after the first set of pictures of (thankfully censored) child nudity. It may not fall under the law's definition of child pornography, but it definitely isn't normal. All that tells us is that his defense found a loophole and used it. Looking at it through our own eyes, I can't see any way to excuse it.

Also remember that it isn't the complete collection of evidence - it's just 88 pages. The actual documents would have been hundreds of pages.

So once again, did they find collections of "nude children in his bedroom" or "collections of nude children" in his bedroom?

You didn't even bother to read the goddamn report and just made assumptions off of a poorly phrased/worded comment.

 

[Tatsumi Oga]

Of course he was a paedo. It's laughable that he has a defence force.

The only laughable thing is that people so easily believe this stuff. It actually is VERY understandable how there is a defence force dude, because the amount of misinfo and lies spread by tabloids is absolutely crazy.

I suggest people read this article by GQ

Was MJ framed? Is the article. If you actually want to know just a little about the first allegations,why he settled and just much much more.

https://mjjtruthnow.wordpress.com/2...-the-record-straight-on-the-1993-allegations/

 

[Ash Sparrow]

MMaRsu

Why did he settle for over 200Mil with these supposed victims?

I most certainly do not have child porn, or art books with naked children in them. I actually don't know anyone who does.

Do you have art books with naked children in your household? If you dont, why would you find it normal that ANYONE would have these types of books? And not one, but a lot.

Most of the people the DA claimed were molested came to court and said they were not. Michaels first case was settled for far less than that and he was proved innocent the second case. And yes we did have a picture with cherubs in it and my mom had a health book that showed a womans vagina.

Its far too dismissive to say hey you Jackson fans will do anything to defend him. When I got my degree in Criminal Justice and one in Psychology it was with the ideal that I would help victims of sexual abuse. Child molestation is an issue that I take close to heart having had 2 cousins molested by a predator and going to court 5 years on and off for that with my aunt. If I thought MJ was a molester I'd be the first to say so. But I actually went and read up on his trials and I think when you do that you see how laughable the whole thing was.

There's a chance that we don't really know a lot of people as well as we think, but I think more than just trying to defend some mega star most of us would want to get it right. If I thought children were hurt by this guy it would crush me. Something I think that my friends at various sites online would even attest to. I don't want to linger on this too much, but hopefully one or two people here will actually go back, read some court transcripts, get wise to how the media lies and how this machine works.

 

[Malvolio]

Yeah, but he was rich. That has to count for something right?

 

[geardo]

People need to stop burying their heads and pretending the obvious didn't happen.

.

 

[Boem]

What some money and fame will get you out of...
This always disgusted me https://youtu.be/TMLS-nP6TO8

This. This is the guy that people are defending. Absolutely insane.

So once again, did they find collections of "nude children in his bedroom" or "collections of nude children" in his bedroom?

You didn't even bother to read the goddamn report and just made assumptions off of a poorly phrased/worded comment.

Poorly phrased? It's in the actual article we're talking about right here. There's no way to read that sentence as anything else. If you want me to look through pages of that filth (I'm talking about the 'goddamn' article, although I don't know why you had to resort to swearing at me) to prove you wrong - sorry, I don't have the gumption for that. I'll gladly have you can have this win. MJ was a saint.

 

[gamerMan]

I thought this was known already. None of the material that the procecution obtained was illegal otherwise Jackson would have been sent to jail.

Michael had a huge library of a million books. The prosecution found every book with nudity inside and tried to paint Jackson as a molester. Here is a list of every offending book Michael had.

http://michaeljacksonallegations.co...aterial-found-in-michael-jacksons-possession/

The book with "child pornography" “was called the Fourth Sex.

Here's what the police said:

The vast majority of the pictures were of teenagers and/or young adults. Some of the pictures depicted individuals wearing no clothing, or in a state of partial dress. The theme of the book seemed to be adolescents and counter culture”.

Here is one of the pictures in it:

 

[JetSetRadio]

Heal the world, make it a better place.

 

[The Beard]

So once again, did they find collections of "nude children in his bedroom" or "collections of nude children" in his bedroom?

You didn't even bother to read the goddamn report and just made assumptions off of a poorly phrased/worded comment.

One is worse than the other, but either way it doesn't look good for a man who claimed to be a delicate man-child, who slept with little boys in a bedroom that contained pics of naked boys, women, men, and transsexuals.

 

[Coreda]

Looking at it through our own eyes, I can't see any way to excuse it.

Also remember that it isn't the complete collection of evidence - it's just 88 pages. The actual documents would have been hundreds of pages.

This is the document that's being used as the source of these articles according to Vanity Fair, so if there's more it's only what has been passed on from the Radar Online from the articles I've read.

Fwiw I'm not arguing whether he had a lot of highly objectionable/questionable material, but the OP does make it sound as though new information came to light yet various points don't seem to be in the sourced document and mean they can't be checked by anyone apart from Radar Online apparently. Those who would like to trust the information they read have no way of verifying some important allegations, basically.

 

[BFIB]

People can deny the truth, but there is more than enough smoke, and evidence over the years to implicate that MJ clearly had some level of obsession with children.

As for his professional work, I kind of seperate the two. It may make me a horrible person, but kind of how I look at Chris Benoit. He had a true dark side, but his professional work was impressive to watch. Same as MJ.

 

[JrBaconCheeseburger]

Man MJ why?

You could have any girl on the planet and you want little boys.

Enough info here to show he was doing some sick shit.

Porn ? Understandable

all this male nude art BS / 9 pair of underwear different sizes WTF

 

[LookAtMeGo]

Unfortunate timing for this. Just a few day away from the anniversary of his passing. Considering no new evidence is being presented, I'll take this with a grain of salt. Not saying the dude was innocent or not. Just seems like an appropriate time to create controversy.

 

[dakun]

Man MJ why?

You could have any girl on the planet and you want little boys.

he got Lisa Marie Presley when she was still hot.. And she constantly maintained it was a romantic relationship even after his death.

 

[Robso]

This is for Ash Sparrow:
I'll just ask this again bruh.

If you actually look at the documents, I wouldn't say these are normal books and normal pictures. Even for people who like to examine the human anatomy. I've never been 100% sure MJ was a pedo but these books and pictures show more than words can say.

Why did he settle for over 200Mil with these supposed victims?

I most certainly do not have child porn, or art books with naked children in them. I actually don't know anyone who does.

Do you have art books with naked children in your household? If you dont, why would you find it normal that ANYONE would have these types of books? And not one, but a lot.

Did people even take a look at the pictures of naked kids in the documents in the OP?

Y'all find that normal? Just something casually cool? Or..... maybe he was a fucking pedo??

Not intended for me, but...

He never paid out $200 million that was nonsense started by Stacy Brown who has an issue with the Jackson family as a whole. The supposed FBI documents containing that information are old and fake. MJ's financial records were seized in 2003 and the $200 million figure was mentioned by nobody.

MJ possessed numerous art books containing children, men and women. Most of these art books were valuable. He possessed two with children in. Both were seized in 1993 and none of that type were found in the 2003 raid.

One was purchased by a fan who called Rhonda as she put a message from herself in it. It's unknown if he ever looked at it. The other book he inscribed which makes one wonder if it actually should of been sent back to the fan as you don't usually inscribe your own books.

 

[Spiritwalker]

Sexual attraction to 15-19yos is called ephebophilia, FYI. And it's exceptionally common, even on this forum.

Just clearing that up for some posters in this thread.

 

[Tatsumi Oga]

Man MJ why?

You could have any girl on the planet and you want little boys.

Good lord.

You do realize that the thread title should be edited though, right? It is nowhwre near as bad as these sites are saying.

Yeah i am done here.

 

[Wolfe]

A performer I won't be able to enjoy the output of now in any capacity. His legend is now utterly destroyed.

Now you won't be able to? Give me a break dude, nothing new is being presented here.

If you've been fine enjoying his output from the year 2003 up to now then you've been rather ignorant about it.

Of course it's silly, it just makes you wonder and brings the topic about art vs the person. Hitler was pretty good painting for example, can you dissociate the person from the work he does?

For me it depends, context plays a large role obviously.

I can look at hitlers painting (not that I have to my knowledge seen any of his work) and if I found it aesthetically pleasing I would have no problem saying so even though he's a piece of shit excuse for a human being. While on the flip side I have trouble watching anything with Mel Gibson lately given his issues from recent years as since he's an actor and you watch him perform visually, it can be hard not to think of the things you may think are wrong about that person or something they've done. It's easier for me to not impose that same judgement onto music and art though as they can both be presented to the viewer/listener without the person or persons who made them being required or even relevant to their consumption.

But at the same time people can and do change and sometimes for the better, I mean just like someone could be the nicest person ever (and actually be it) and over time end up turning into a pos.

I dunno it's a big mess of a subject that I am having trouble condensing my stance into a few lines without making it confusing, hopefully that gives at least a little insight into my view on it.

 

[BlueTsunami]

he got Lisa Marie Presley when she was still hot.. And she constantly maintained it was a romantic relationship even after his death.

https://youtu.be/TPl5yjn_W-c

Crazy in love

 

[The Beard]

Man MJ why?

You could have any girl on the planet and you want little boys.

Enough info here to show he was doing some sick shit.

Porn ? Understandable

all this male nude art BS / 9 pair of underwear different sizes WTF

He clearly wasn't into women though, so you can't apply this logic.

 

[HiResDes]

Maybe MJ did do it but there isn't any hard evidence and the alleged porn wasn't porn at all, that's why there's defense because the thread title is misleading and the sources are fraudulent.

 

[SpecX]

time to delete my Thriller destiny dance

 

[Clockwork]

One is worse than the other, but either way it doesn't look good for a man who claimed to be a delicate man-child, who slept with little boys in a bedroom that contained pics of naked boys, women, men, and transsexuals.

Well one would certainly offer proof of wrongdoing where the other one doesn't.


If Michael Jackson was taking nude pictures of children/adolescents/teens in his bedroom he certainly has more to answer for than possessing some books that even the investigators deemed legal, no?

 

[7DollarHagane]

It's really just to show that anyone with that much power, influence, and resources will probably get themselves into some nefarious shit. It's the minority of successful and popular people who don't have some vice they can satisfy as a result of their fame.

 

[qcf x2]

People can deny the truth, but there is more than enough smoke, and evidence over the years to implicate that MJ clearly had some level of obsession with children.

As for his professional work, I kind of seperate the two. It may make me a horrible person, but kind of how I look at Chris Benoit. He had a true dark side, but his professional work was impressive to watch. Same as MJ.

He had a ton of books. He definitely had an obsession with childhood, since he never had one. Does that mean he derived pleasure in taking it from others?

It's really just to show that anyone with that much power, influence, and resources will probably get themselves into some nefarious shit. It's the minority of successful and popular people who don't have some vice they can satisfy as a result of their fame.

What are you basing this on?

Maybe MJ did do it but there isn't any hard evidence and the alleged porn wasn't porn at all, that's why there's defense because the thread title is misleading and the sources are fraudulent.

No, he's MJ. One letter off from OJ. There are reports, man, reports. Didn't you see that pic above of a social deviant? Based on the sheriff's training, that kind of material was used to...

 

[Einchy]

I read this article a few years ago that laid out a lot of the facts from his trials and it made it seem like it was all a bunch of bullshit.

Don't really know what to believe now...

 

[Syder]

This. This is the guy that people are defending. Absolutely insane.

Did you see the second half of this video after he got upset?

Dude, was misguided letting people leave him alone with their kids. Left him open to exploitation and it happened.

Martin Bashir is a disgrace to journalism. He eventually admitted himself that he didn't believe he broke the law. Shame it came too late.

 

[Robso]

Ignore what the media say and actually do your own research. The media won't tell you that...

When Evan Chandler met Michael Jackson after his son, Jordan, had supposedly confessed to being molested Evan HUGGED him then laid out his monetary demands.

They won't tell you Evan wanted to make a music album about his son's supposed abuse.

You won't be told that the Arvizo's in 2005 claimed they were held captive at Neverland, yet the Mother managed to spend $3000 at MJ's expense during this time.

You won't be informed that the Arvizo's had a history of false sex abuse allegations.

They won't repeat at Gavin Arvizo's wedding 'The Way You Make Me Feel' being played and him 'smiling' and just 'shrugging his shoulders'.

They won't tell you the district attorney changed the dates of alleged molestation in 2005 THREE TIMES as Michael Jackson wasn't at Neverland on the first two dates.

They won't tell you Wade Robson's sister was selling Michael Jackson memorabilia on eBay.

 

[Clockwork]

This. This is the guy that people are defending. Absolutely insane.



Poorly phrased? It's in the actual article we're talking about right here. There's no way to read that sentence as anything else. If you want me to look through pages of that filth (I'm talking about the 'goddamn' article, although I don't know why you had to resort to swearing at me) to prove you wrong - sorry, I don't have the gumption for that. I'll gladly have you can have this win. MJ was a saint.

I knew the answer before I asked you the question. Nothing like what you suggested was found. The writer of the article either intentionally wrote it that way to misguide or they did it in error not realising it would be interpreted the way you did.

Does me calling out something that was inaccurate equate to saying he was a saint? I don't think so.

 

[LizardKing]

So, the thread title is completely false, needs to be edited. On top of that the info in the OP is misleading and is actually a load of nothing and stuff from over a decade ago. Just tabloids trying to get hits. Yet people won't read. (Not that I'm saying MJ didn't do it, who knows, but this is nothing.)

 

[BFIB]

He had a ton of books. He definitely had an obsession with childhood, since he never had one. Does that mean he derived pleasure in taking it from others?

I think that is precisely it. He never had his own childhood, and lived his life through children's eyes. But if it went beyond that (which there is a lot of speculation it did), then that truth needs to come out about it.

You can still appreciate his music, but some are going to think your a bad person for doing so.

 

[Anth0ny]

Did you see the second half of this video after he got upset?

Dude, was misguided letting people leave him alone with their kids. Left him open to exploitation and it happened.

Martin Bashir is a disgrace to journalism. He eventually admitted himself that he didn't believe he broke the law. Shame it came too late.

It's no use. Most people have their minds made up already and will never do even 5 minutes of research into all this bs.

Power of the press right there

 

[The Beard]

Well one would certainly offer proof of wrongdoing where the other one doesn't.


If Michael Jackson was taking nude pictures of children/adolescents/teens in his bedroom he certainly has more to answer for than possessing some books that even the investigators deemed legal, no?

Absolutely.

One is proof of illegal activity.

The other is proof that he wasn't the delicate little flower he portrayed himself as.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I thought it was commonly known he was a pedophile.

Also hitler's painting were nothing exciting, they aren't bad they are just bland. He wasn't rejected for no reason.

 

[VetrexKnight]

Will someone please edit this clickbaitish thread title already? Reading this stuff shows it's no where near being as serious as real chid porn.

 

[Syder]

Ignore what the media say and actually do your own research. The media won't tell you that...

When Evan Chandler met Michael Jackson after his son, Jordan, had supposedly confessed to being molested Evan HUGGED him then laid out his monetary demands.

They won't tell you Evan wanted to make a music album about his son's supposed abuse.

You won't be told that the Arvizo's in 2005 claimed they were held captive at Neverland, yet the Mother managed to spend $3000 at MJ's expense during this time.

They won't tell you the district attorney changed the dates of alleged molestation in 2005 THREE TIMES as Michael Jackson wasn't at Neverland on the first two dates.

They won't tell you Wade Robson's sister was selling Michael Jackson memorabilia on eBay.

They won't tell you Evan Chandler blew his own brains out shortly after Michael's death.

Gavin Arvizo seems to be getting on with his life now. I'm happy for him despite what his parents did. Jordy Chandler, Gavin Arvizo and Michael Jackson all suffered because of it.

No one mentions how Macauley Culkin and Michael's 3 children defend him to the hilt even to this day.

Will someone please edit this clickbaitish thread title already? Reading this stuff shows it's no where near being as serious as real chid porn.

This.

I thought it was commonly known he was a pedophile.

It should be commonly known that he wasn't.

 

[freenudemacusers]

What?

Please tell me you're joking. Please.

You have to account for any possibility of innocence in cases like these, no matter how superficially outlandish they may appear. Especially if the accused makes something a lot of people enjoy.

 

[VendettaRed07]

To me, this is him at his most megalomaniac. Sitting hand in hand with a young boy who is fauning over him - MJ does not care, he thinks he is invincible at this point and believes he can never be taken down, he's completely wrapped up in and believes his own lies.

If this was anyone else, a regular guy on the street, there is NO WAY anyone would let this kind of behaviour pass.

Yeah. Tbf, there are a lot of proven false allegations or things that were thrown out in court a long time ago that keep coming back that the news focuses on.. but still.

MJ put himself, in incredibly inappropriate and insane situations that any other rational adult never would have. No other person would have people so ready to defend him or believe he was innocent even with only the stuff what we know actually happened. We know tons and tons of children completely unrelated to him came over his house and slept in his bed with him. His only real defense there is that sleeping in the same bed with other random kids isn't sexual at all. That alone, whether anyone actually believed anything he had to say after that, had any other person done it would have landed them with something. If not in jail, put on the sex offender listing or something.

 

[Lucumo]

It's no use. Most people have their minds made up already and will never do even 5 minutes of research into all this bs.

Power of the press right there

Pretty much, a shame.

 

[EvilEvoVIII]

In other news, scientists have discovered that water is wet

Quoting for hilarity.

 

[Volimar]

Will someone please edit this clickbaitish thread title already? Reading this stuff shows it's no where near being as serious as real chid porn.

PM a mod if you feel strongly about it.

I thought it was commonly known he was a pedophile.

commonly believed

 

[Robso]

They won't tell you Evan Chandler blew his own brains out shortly after Michael's death.

Gavin Arvizo seems to be getting on with his life now. I'm happy for him despite what his parents did. Jordy Chandler, Gavin Arvizo and Michael Jackson all suffered because of it.

No one mentions how Macauley Culkin and Michael's 3 children defend him to the hilt even to this day.

Yup.

Gavin is totally fine. Tom Sneddon told him to 'get on with his life' and 'play sports' after the trial ended. This is what the district attorney told a kid who'd been molested.

Anybody who reads into the case will see Sneddon was out for revenge from 1993. The Arvizo family was the best he found in ten years of hunting for victims and they embarrassed themselves on the witness stand. The mother was done for welfare fraud shortly after the trial.

 

[Ash Sparrow]

No the timing is actually perfect, this is how its always been for anyone whos followed his career. before any album release or special occasion tabloid trash.

If you read about the people in these cases, they are so far from what the media portrays them to be, super creepy and weird. The mother in the second case married a guy named Jackson which made her name Janet Jackson.
From Wiki and Carrie Fisher

In her autobiographical book Shockaholic, Carrie Fisher claims that Chandler was her dentist, and was known as the "dentist to the stars," happily accommodating questionable requests by the famous in exchange for being associated with them. In the late 1980s, addict Fisher would get unnecessary dental surgery just to obtain morphine from him. Fisher claimed Chandler could be persuaded via financial incentives or "favors" to come to a patient's house to administer drugs. His license plate read "SLEEP MD". In the book, Fisher refers to Chandler as "strange", referring to him as "this freak", saying Chandler told her in the privacy of a dental visit that "My son is VERY (unsettling smile, raised eyebrows, maybe even a lewd wink) good looking...It was grotesque. This man was letting me know that he had this valuable thing that Michael Jackson 'wanted'". She describes how shortly afterwards, he reversed himself and in 1993 told Fisher he was bringing charges against Jackson, and at that time was "shocked with moral indignation". Fisher then states, "This was the time I knew I had to find another dentist. No drug can hide the feeling of one's skin crawling...I never thought that Michael's whole thing with kids was sexual. Never. As in Neverland. Granted, it was miles from appropriate, but just because it wasn't normal doesn't mean that it had to be perverse. Those aren't the only two choices for what can happen between an adult and an un-related child hanging out together...and yes, he had an amusement park, a zoo, a movie theatre, popcorn, candy and an elephant, but to draw a line under all that and add it up to the assumption that he fiendishly rubbed his hands together as he assembled this giant super spiderweb to lure and trap kids into it is just bad math."[2]

 

[Robso]

No the timing is actually perfect, this is how its always been for anyone whos followed his career. before any album release or special occasion tabloid trash.

If you read about the people in these cases, they are so far from what the media portrays them to be, super creepy and weird. The mother in the second case married a guy named Jackson which made her name Janet Jackson.
From Wiki and Carrie Fisher

In her autobiographical book Shockaholic, Carrie Fisher claims that Chandler was her dentist, and was known as the "dentist to the stars," happily accommodating questionable requests by the famous in exchange for being associated with them. In the late 1980s, addict Fisher would get unnecessary dental surgery just to obtain morphine from him. Fisher claimed Chandler could be persuaded via financial incentives or "favors" to come to a patient's house to administer drugs. His license plate read "SLEEP MD". In the book, Fisher refers to Chandler as "strange", referring to him as "this freak", saying Chandler told her in the privacy of a dental visit that "My son is VERY (unsettling smile, raised eyebrows, maybe even a lewd wink) good looking...It was grotesque. This man was letting me know that he had this valuable thing that Michael Jackson 'wanted'". She describes how shortly afterwards, he reversed himself and in 1993 told Fisher he was bringing charges against Jackson, and at that time was "shocked with moral indignation". Fisher then states, "This was the time I knew I had to find another dentist. No drug can hide the feeling of one's skin crawling...I never thought that Michael's whole thing with kids was sexual. Never. As in Neverland. Granted, it was miles from appropriate, but just because it wasn't normal doesn't mean that it had to be perverse. Those aren't the only two choices for what can happen between an adult and an un-related child hanging out together...and yes, he had an amusement park, a zoo, a movie theatre, popcorn, candy and an elephant, but to draw a line under all that and add it up to the assumption that he fiendishly rubbed his hands together as he assembled this giant super spiderweb to lure and trap kids into it is just bad math."[2]

Spot on.

In 2003 Tom Sneddon let this supposed child molester continue freely for months. He decided to raid Neverland on the day of the 'Number Ones' album release. Sneddon knew about the claims in June yet waited until November. That's how dangerous this supposed child molester was to him.

Safechuck's claim became public the day Xscape released.

 

[Syder]

Yup.

Gavin is totally fine. Tom Sneddon told him to 'get on with his life' and 'play sports' after the trial ended. This is what the district attorney told a kid who'd been molested.

Anybody who reads into the case will see Sneddon was out for revenge from 1993. The Arvizo family was the best he found in ten years of hunting for victims and they embarrassed themselves on the witness stand. The mother was done for welfare fraud shortly after the trial.

Tom Sneddon is cold man. He sought to build a career out of pulling down Michael Jackson and he failed. Shame, so many people just take his and the press' word as gospel.

 

[Twilight Gap]

The only laughable thing is that people so easily believe this stuff. It actually is VERY understandable how there is a defence force dude, because the amount of misinfo and lies spread by tabloids is absolutely crazy.

I suggest people read this article by GQ

Was MJ framed? Is the article. If you actually want to know just a little about the first allegations,why he settled and just much much more.

https://mjjtruthnow.wordpress.com/2...-the-record-straight-on-the-1993-allegations/

This article is the most disturbing thing in this thread.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

commonly believed

Over time that becomes one and the same.