Microsoft / Activision Deal Approval Watch |OT| (MS/ABK close)

Do you believe the deal will be approved?


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like Death Stranding, VR or Dreams?
So funding Kojima wackiness that would certainly sell, VR hardware that was less supported than the Vita, and babby's first development engine that they didn't turn into its own ecosystem. Dreams alone was a complete waste of effort, it would have been so simple to make it FTP, and open up a literal secondary game store where vetted people could sell their own indie titles.

Sony has all these great ideas that they never support to fruition.
 
Minecraft has various publishers too where the majority of sales come from. Look at minecraft and look at the show in any NPD result. Have you never wondered why you see this in NPD results under publisher?

us-2022-top-games.jpg


Because the game publisher can be SIE on PS and Nintendo on Switch for Minecraft too. You don't need to come up with a reason why a SIE game isn't a SIE game.

Much of that Is probably legacy info. Wikipedia lists Minecraft's publishers as Mojang, Xbox Game Studios and SIE, with a blurb saying SIE covers the PS3, PS Vita and PS4.
The current, Bedrock edition is most certainly not published by SIE. PlayStation store itself lists the publisher as Mojang

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If you're talking "dominant market leader outselling competition 2:1" you can't be talking about Nintendo Switch as competition in the same paragraph. If you're including switch as competition there is no dominance and no outselling competition 2:1. So decide what market you want to define when making your point.

Those are two separate sentences. You can tell because there's a full stop between them.

Point 1: Sony is the market leader, outselling their key competitor around 2:1. This clearly refers to the Xbox line

Point 2: Sony doesn't have a great track record of putting their games on competing hardware. This covers all competing console hardware…including the Switch.

Not exactly rocket science. If you're scrabbling around to find loopholes, I guess it's clear vindication of my overarching point.
 
So funding Kojima wackiness that would certainly sell, VR hardware that was less supported than the Vita, and babby's first development engine that they didn't turn into its own ecosystem. Dreams alone was a complete waste of effort, it would have been so simple to make it FTP, and open up a literal secondary game store where vetted people could sell their own indie titles.

Sony has all these great ideas that they never support to fruition.
🏃🥅🏃= 🤡
 
Those are two separate sentences. You can tell because there's a full stop between them.

Point 1: Sony is the market leader, outselling their key competitor around 2:1. This clearly refers to the Xbox line
Just because it's two sentences doesn't mean the context for the paragraph has to be thrown away so you can make two opposing points in one. One where you're making a negative point about Sony and excluding competition due to their "market leader dominance" but then include but not mention the actual dominant console seller when making a favourable point about MS in a subsequent sentence. People would obviously draw conclusions about what you consider competitors.

They didn't release their game on their key competitors hardware. They rejected Ori on PS for that reason even though Moon Studio was pushing for it and Moon studios was the reason why they even convinced them for a less key competitor like Nintendo. so I think it still works against your point of releasing games on competing hardware when MS have been criticised by Moon Studios themselves for blocking PS release of the game.

You say a competitor who has not really bought any third party multiplatform IPs to begin with doesn't have a great track record but its track record is similar in terms of releasing multiplatform when it has. Not even including games like Destiny or MLB. If you want to go back to when it bought a mostly multiplaform publisher its track record is even better than MS' is today.

Sony isn't buying multiplatform publishers and I hope they dont but if it did why would it be a completely different ball game? Their track record is better and they can promise the same concessions. You can't use two contradictory views to make it seem less favourable for them.
 
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Regulation specifics aside, I still find it so weird there is such a focused conversation around just COD/Sony when games like Fortnite or Hogwarts or Apex Legends or FIFA or Mario or GTA or WoW and so many more exist or have appeared during the life of COD.
 
I personally think removing Sony from the marketing of the series will be one of the biggest gains for MS. Getting CoD associated with Xbox instead of PS is what will make people move over time. Additional content will just be icing on the cake.
If that's what MS wanted they could have paid for advertising rights for probably considerably less to what they paid for Activision.

They want the revenue from COD #1
 
They want the revenue from COD #1
Oh, for sure. I'm just thinking in terms of people moving from one ecosystem to another. I imagine they will gain a lot from just having Xbox be on all the CoD advertising, special edition controllers, consoles etc. etc.
 
Oh, for sure. I'm just thinking in terms of people moving from one ecosystem to another. I imagine they will gain a lot from just having Xbox be on all the CoD advertising, special edition controllers, consoles etc. etc.
What alot of people dont realise on here is that COD and FIFA (especially in the UK) are the two main talking points with the general public when it comes to Video Games
 
... Reality was that Playstation was losing money year after year until it had better performing games and the marketing agreements for COD during PS4. Those things did hurt them immeasurably during PS3.
You may need to educate me, but my recollection was that PlayStation's deep losses during that gen were largely due to the cost of manufacturing the PS3 itself. They just couldn't get ahead of it, despite selling good amounts of software. Even after a hardware revision, cutting things like hardware BC, PlayStation lost insane money on every PS3 sold. The loses on the initial model were believed to be literally half its sticker price, despite launching at the infamous US$599.00. The PS4 cut those loses, because Cerny designed the PS4 to be, among other things, ultimately profitable. That's part of what made Cerny's work so darn good - the PS4 did everything it needed to: compete with the Xbox, cheap to manufacture, become profitable quickly. PS4 didn't launch with COD marketing - it picked it up after, yet, I believe PlayStation became profitable shortly after the PS4 launch. My understanding was that, with the shift to PS4 manufacturing, they stopped the PS3's bleeding and that finally turned things around. Happy to be wrong, it's been a pretty long time since I've gone through those numbers.
 
You believe what you want to believe. First party output on the PS3 was stellar but they suffered only losses because their third party sales tanked. First party can attract people to the console but third party sales from COD or FIFA can still be invaluable to your business. Does that mean that first party output was worthless? Xbox also relies very heavily on COD, more so than PS (have you seen the platforms top seller every month for the past 5 or so years? 3 or 4 CoDs in top ten) but I'm sure you would argue MS first party isn't worthless but COD is still important. If CoD didn't exist on xbox I'm fairly certain it would be in the red for the past 5yrs.
Completely agree, and I suspect those that are thinking Jim is lying or exaggerating are forgetting that business discussions are typical in the context of: "Hope for the best, plan for the worst". Speaking to the regulator will be like talking to the bank, where your worst case scenario is the reality until something happens letting you see either a worse scenario or better outcome in the worst scenario.

People are also forgetting that Microsoft are trying to buy a publisher that in all likelihood is worth more than PlayStation as a division of Sony - given Sony's market cap comparison with ATVI and PlayStation just being one major part of Sony - so the idea that damaging an essential input for that division won't be potentially catastrophic in a worst case for PlayStation's current competitive business model seems detached from reality IMO., especially when the timing couldn't be worse with EA and Fifa going their separate ways potentially leading to a large drop in MTX revenue from EA's football game too that PlayStation/Sony would struggle with more than Xbox/Microsoft.
 
Sony says Microsoft told the European Commission that it has no incentive to foreclose access to Bethesda/ZeniMax games, but games like Redfall, Starfield, and Elder Scrolls VI are exclusive to Xbox. Sony thinks MSFT could do the same with Call of Duty.

CMA isn't making their decision solely on incentive, though. They've looked at the potential impact Of such a decision and decided it's not an existential risk.

Do you think Sony would care if they didnt think it would do major damage to them? Maybe they are just spending millions on anti trust lawyers for fun

No. They're spending millions on anti-trust lawyers in a bid to keep Microsoft's gaming presence as small as possible.
It's competition. They're working to keep their chief competitor's revenues low, reduce the impact of Gamepass, curtail MS first party as much as possible and to reinforce the possibility of MS abandoning console gaming.

Not to mention the idea of keeping their marketing arrangement with ABK for COD going.

That's pretty much it. They probably already realize how unlikely it is for MS to make COD exclusive, and the 10 year deal on offer already guarantees them access to the game for the whole of this gen and at least half of next gen.
 
http://www.fosspatents.com/2023/04/discovery-closes-today-in-two-antitrust.html?m=1
Coincidentally, today is the cutoff date for fact discovery in two disparate antitrust actions involving Activision Blizzard King (ABK):

  • the FTC's adjudicative proceeding (in-house lawsuit) over ABK's acquisition by Microsoft, and
  • the In Re Google Play Store Antitrust Litigation in the Northern District of California, where Epic Games and Match Group are pursuing a per se violation claim against Google based on its "Project Hug" agreements with game makers. ABK received $360 million, which ensured its loyalty to the Google Play Store for several years. In this particular case, ABK is a third party, but an important one. Because of this new theory, fact discovery in that litigation was reopened.
The purpose of this post is to discuss the next steps in those cases, also in United States et al. v. Google--a case pending in a court on the other coast (D.C.) but with factual overlaps--and the Microsoft-ActivisionBlizzard merger review in the UK, where some filings were released yesterday and an important new document is expected to be sent to Microsoft and ABK next week. Let's start with the merger-related parts.

  1. FTC adjudicative proceeding enters expert phase
  2. CMA remedies working paper expected while Sony is panicking
  3. Curative sanctions--and trial date and format--to be determined in Google Play case in N.D. Cal.
  4. Implications for sanctions motion in United States et al. v. Google (D.C.)
FTC adjudicative proceeding enters expert phase

After today's fact discovery cutoff, the focus in the FTC's Microsoft-ActivisionBlizzard process shifts to the experts:

  • The FTC is to provide its expert witness reports within four weeks (May 5).
  • A week later (May 12), the FTC has to provide to Microsoft's and ABK's lawyers its final proposed witness and exhibit lists with a view to the August trial.
  • Another two weekslater (May 26), Microsoft and ABK have to provide their expert witness reports.
  • By May 30, the deal parties have to provide their final proposed witness and exhibit lists.
  • June 9 is the deadline for the FTC's rebuttal expert reports that respond to Microsoft's and ABK's expert witness reports.
  • The deadline for expert depositions is two weeks later (June 23).

The rest is too long.
 
You may need to educate me, but my recollection was that PlayStation's deep losses during that gen were largely due to the cost of manufacturing the PS3 itself. They just couldn't get ahead of it, despite selling good amounts of software. Even after a hardware revision, cutting things like hardware BC, PlayStation lost insane money on every PS3 sold. The loses on the initial model were believed to be literally half its sticker price, despite launching at the infamous US$599.00.
you're absolutely right about hardware cost, their main losses were hardware and also studio/game development costs. The game sales weren't what was expected though, they weren't OK or "good amounts". They were using expected spend to see how much they can afford to lose on hardware over the lifetime of the PS3s '10yr plan'. The plan was that good sales of first and third party games would recoup their cost. That didn't happen. They had the entire gen of losses with first and especially third party game sales underperforming on their system. They had a 40gb $399 console, they even took steps to strip out the PS3 to reduce cost substantially, lowering the required consumer spend to turn a profit but still didn't. They weren't making those expected lifetimes sales numbers from users anymore even with lots of first party releases. Their third party sales I'm sure hurt them the most (xbox 360 had a 8:1 software sales ratio early in the gen) . They were trying to make up for the lost income of game sales all gen. Especially MS taking substantial GTA4 sales with content exclusivity right before console launch and DF posting GTA4, Skyrim, and Fallout 3 performance comparisons about how 360 was better and word getting round that third party PS3 performance was bad. Add to that COD having most the game sales on 360 due to content exclusivity and performance, Bioshock and ME timed exclusive as well, PS had very little going for it in terms of third party sales to recoup. People were spending elsewhere now even if they were buying the occasional exclusive.

Keep in mind that online play was free and mtx weren't really a thing at the beginning of that gen either. They were truly relying on just game sales to turn a profit which didn't happen as well as they'd hoped. xbox was taking those expected sales due to third party game performance and exclusivity/content agreements. They were fighting an uphill battle all gen and even their good first party output wasn't enough to recover from the losses through the gen. The only first party that might have helped were the ICE team in trying to lower the performance gap for later releases like GTA5.

The PS4 cut those loses, because Cerny designed the PS4 to be, among other things, ultimately profitable. That's part of what made Cerny's work so darn good - the PS4 did everything it needed to: compete with the Xbox, cheap to manufacture, become profitable quickly. PS4 didn't launch with COD marketing - it picked it up after, yet, I believe PlayStation became profitable shortly after the PS4 launch. My understanding was that, with the shift to PS4 manufacturing, they stopped the PS3's bleeding and that finally turned things around. Happy to be wrong, it's been a pretty long time since I've gone through those numbers.
The PS4 was still sold at a loss on release but just a substantially lower loss which is why they still had that big loss at launch 2013 you can see on the graph. What made it good though was the fact that it had better third party game performance along with that sticker price meaning they could get enough third party game sales and subscriptions for online third party games to turn a profit soon enough.

The PS3 gave you almost everything except performance in third party games. The PS4 gave you almost nothing but performance, no real apps or fancy auxiliary stuff. On PS3 nobody cared that they were releasing big budget games that looked better like Killzone 2,3, Uncharted 2,3, GOW3, GT5/6 those weren't shifting the profit needle much at all.

Over the years of PS4 on the other hand they had third party performance and sales and PS+ on the back of those multiplayer games like COD or Battlefield 4, as well as their first party (which was kind of lacklustre at launch). You're correct that it didn't have COD marketing from release but it had it 2 yrs in and that's when their profits and PS+ numbers started to really pick up. Keep in mind Battlefield 4 was also a lot more competitive than Battlefield is today against COD where again PS4 performed better and had PS marketing.

For 4yrs during PS3 PS+ subs got nowhere in terms of profit offering 'free' games (some of the best PS+ years in terms of games offered were the late PS3 era, people complained about it into the PS4 gen) still PS+ struggled with subscriber numbers on PS3, but as soon as they became the place to play third party games like CoD or Battlefield 4 online that's when they saw real revenue and profit recovery. with CoD 2015 (BO3) onwards and becaming the place to play third party multiplayer games their subs near doubled in 1 year and continued to grow:

playstation-plus-subscribers-global.jpg


I'm sure if CoD left or important/big third party games like COD, The next Skyrim, Fallout 5, GTA performed badly near a new console release it would truly be bad for their business exactly like it was during PS3, without exaggeration. They might not go into big losses anymore depending on how aggressive competing companies are with pricing/console losses but I believe it wouldn't be a pretty scenario if what they are saying actually transpired.
 
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We've seen bad, lazy, or neglected titles released all throughout gaming history. If they made their lead development platform Xbox and started using their APIs exclusively there would probably be impact on other platforms.

We all know any Switch ports are going to probably have limitations. Sony is calling that out to make sure it doesn't happen to them.

Ironically, there's no performance parity between PS5 and Xbox Series X in MLB The Show 21 and 22. The PS5 version runs up to 15% better in cutscenes. It's the lead platform. Nobody accused Sony San Diego of sabotage.

I don't believe they'll get a deal that mandates 100% technical parity. Of course you're never going to get a Switch situation on the PS5…the specs are relatively closely matched between the PS5 and Series X.
 
Not really accurate. Sony's been pushing to go the GaaS route for quite a while. They wanted to buy Leyou, a publisher, back in 2020. Leyou made multiplayer GaaS games. They've paid Deviation Games to make their upcoming ambitious AAA shooter a PlayStation exclusive, bought Jade Raymond's Haven (also making a GaaS shooter), expanded the scope of Naughty Dog's TLOU shooter and have multiple other studios working on multiplayer games. And of course you've mentioned the Bungie purchase.

They've been heavily investing in COD competitors for years now.

That's why I said:
They were already making moves to bolster first-party output and put themselves in a position to weather a reduction in big third-party titles.

I'm aware they've been trying to field competition in GAAS and FPS. But that doesn't mean they were prepared for the ABK deal. No one saw that coming and that deal apparently wasn't in discussion until late 2021. Planning and making moves isn't the same as actually successfully executing, which Sony has yet to do, and I seriously doubt they thought that CoD would suddenly be owned by a competitor. You're gonna have to do quite a bit to convince anyone they had planned for that or that their current progress towards GAAS was enough to deal with it in their eyes.
 
Ironically, there's no performance parity between PS5 and Xbox Series X in MLB The Show 21 and 22. The PS5 version runs up to 15% better in cutscenes. It's the lead platform. Nobody accused Sony San Diego of sabotage.

I don't believe they'll get a deal that mandates 100% technical parity. Of course you're never going to get a Switch situation on the PS5…the specs are relatively closely matched between the PS5 and Series X.


Was just gonna say this, it works one way we're they want parity but not the other way
 
Ironically, there's no performance parity between PS5 and Xbox Series X in MLB The Show 21 and 22. The PS5 version runs up to 15% better in cutscenes. It's the lead platform. Nobody accused Sony San Diego of sabotage.

I don't believe they'll get a deal that mandates 100% technical parity. Of course you're never going to get a Switch situation on the PS5…the specs are relatively closely matched between the PS5 and Series X.
I think the media has been using the word sabotage, not Sony. In fact, I think their example was around something impacting their platform only and that even if MS detected and fixed it quickly it would hurt their platform. I mean I'm not sure what there is to be done about that but I guess it is a risk.

I'm also not sure they're looking for a deal here as much as pointing out an issue. If anything I would think something like the COD team offering Sony a chance to help support the platform would help here. I used to work in the cable industry and it was weird. Some departments would treat other cable companies like mortal enemies. Others were working on technical advancements and having conferences with other cable companies on a regular basis. I imagine if Xbox was not trying to just buy up the market and be a true publisher they would want to work with their platform holders and make things work. I do suspect there's more of the mortal enemies thing over in both camps than the friendly "coopertition" thing we had over in the cable industry.
 
I think the media has been using the word sabotage, not Sony. In fact, I think their example was around something impacting their platform only and that even if MS detected and fixed it quickly it would hurt their platform. I mean I'm not sure what there is to be done about that but I guess it is a risk.

I'm also not sure they're looking for a deal here as much as pointing out an issue. If anything I would think something like the COD team offering Sony a chance to help support the platform would help here. I used to work in the cable industry and it was weird. Some departments would treat other cable companies like mortal enemies. Others were working on technical advancements and having conferences with other cable companies on a regular basis. I imagine if Xbox was not trying to just buy up the market and be a true publisher they would want to work with their platform holders and make things work. I do suspect there's more of the mortal enemies thing over in both camps than the friendly "coopertition" thing we had over in the cable industry.
Sony said that is will destroy their business.

This is their last chance to grasp on something and make it a big deal.
 
I believe your post history removes any need for guesswork



Your commentary delves into unrelated discussion. I've cited examples of Sony already having games in the works to compete with the likes of COD for users time. Of course that doesn't guarantee the quality of the final output. Never said it did.

I have no idea why you posted multiple paragraphs about Destiny 2.
Destiny triggers him for some reason. There was a point where he'd mention it in almost every other thread — warranted or not.
 
Except Sony can't run to a parent company to get 76 billion to remove games from the competition's catalog, which seems to be the extent of his business acumen.
Not an easy task to convince MS executive committee to pony up the cash for their biggest acquisition yet. You'd tend to make the case with projections of revenue and profits and not 'remove games from competitors catalog'. Especially when COD is being protected by an access deal to remain multiplatform for at least a decade.

Complaints about the money being sourced from Microsoft don't make any sense either. It's just as inane as anyone complaining about PlayStation drawing support from Sony Pictures, Sony Music or their anime arm.

Ah, well. You'll be OK
 
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Not an easy task to convince MS executive committee to pony up the cash for their biggest acquisition yet. You'd tend to make the case with projections of revenue and profits and not 'remove games from competitors catalog'. Especially when COD is being protected by an access deal to remain multiplatform for at least a decade.

Complaints about the money being sourced from Microsoft don't make any sense either. It's just as inane as anyone complaining about PlayStation drawing support from Sony Pictures, Sony Music or their anime arm.

Ah, well. You'll be OK
Pretty easy task actually, MS is in a position where they want to find the next big thing.

Apple and meta are doing the same, that's why MS invested heavily in OpenAI and are using their cash reserves to become future proof.

Lots of the massive companies are doing the same thing. I would assume MS has other plans for ABK than just gaming, we just don't know it yet.
 
Much of that Is probably legacy info. Wikipedia lists Minecraft's publishers as Mojang, Xbox Game Studios and SIE, with a blurb saying SIE covers the PS3, PS Vita and PS4.
The current, Bedrock edition is most certainly not published by SIE. PlayStation store itself lists the publisher as Mojang

ckDW9Ms.jpg





Those are two separate sentences. You can tell because there's a full stop between them.

Point 1: Sony is the market leader, outselling their key competitor around 2:1. This clearly refers to the Xbox line

Point 2: Sony doesn't have a great track record of putting their games on competing hardware. This covers all competing console hardware…including the Switch.

Not exactly rocket science. If you're scrabbling around to find loopholes, I guess it's clear vindication of my overarching point.

Just because it's two sentences doesn't mean the context for the paragraph has to be thrown away so you can make two opposing points in one. One where you're making a negative point about Sony and excluding competition due to their "market leader dominance" but then include but not mention the actual dominant console seller when making a favourable point about MS in a subsequent sentence. People would obviously draw conclusions about what you consider competitors.

They didn't release their game on their key competitors hardware. They rejected Ori on PS for that reason even though Moon Studio was pushing for it and Moon studios was the reason why they even convinced them for a less key competitor like Nintendo. so I think it still works against your point of releasing games on competing hardware when MS have been criticised by Moon Studios themselves for blocking PS release of the game.

You say a competitor who has not really bought any third party multiplatform IPs to begin with doesn't have a great track record but its track record is similar in terms of releasing multiplatform when it has. Not even including games like Destiny or MLB. If you want to go back to when it bought a mostly multiplaform publisher its track record is even better than MS' is today.

Sony isn't buying multiplatform publishers and I hope they dont but if it did why would it be a completely different ball game? Their track record is better and they can promise the same concessions. You can't use two contradictory views to make it seem less favourable for them.
zootopia-oh.gif
 
Pretty easy task actually, MS is in a position where they want to find the next big thing.

Apple and meta are doing the same, that's why MS invested heavily in OpenAI and are using their cash reserves to become future proof.

Lots of the massive companies are doing the same thing. I would assume MS has other plans for ABK than just gaming, we just don't know it yet.
Meta/AR comes to my mind.
These are markets where Activision/blizzard content is strong.

Imagine cod meta.
 
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Except Sony can't run to a parent company to get 76 billion to remove games from the competition's catalog, which seems to be the extent of his business acumen.
Getting that much money is a feat.

He conned his parent company and made them spend that much money. That is not an easy task in my opinion.
 
Much of that Is probably legacy info. Wikipedia lists Minecraft's publishers as Mojang, Xbox Game Studios and SIE, with a blurb saying SIE covers the PS3, PS Vita and PS4.
The current, Bedrock edition is most certainly not published by SIE. PlayStation store itself lists the publisher as Mojang

ckDW9Ms.jpg





Those are two separate sentences. You can tell because there's a full stop between them.

Point 1: Sony is the market leader, outselling their key competitor around 2:1. This clearly refers to the Xbox line

Point 2: Sony doesn't have a great track record of putting their games on competing hardware. This covers all competing console hardware…including the Switch.

Not exactly rocket science. If you're scrabbling around to find loopholes, I guess it's clear vindication of my overarching point.

That's because none of the games from Sony were on other platforms before. It's not like MS is releasing any of their games on PS. Minecraft was one of those big IP's MS acquired which was already multiplatform.
 
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