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[ChorizoPicozo]

I'm browsing Twitter, and I have honestly never seen so many people actively turn on the Xbox brand in quite some time now.

Tango's closure really made people mad.
and Matt Booty has the fucking balls to say today that they need smaller games to win awards and prestige.

I don't think even the June Showcase is gonna fix things either.

if HB2 is another disappointing game... bro.....I just imagine the narrative after the showcase:

1. that's studio is going to be closed
2. thats another disappointing game.
3.oh, another game in dev hell, is going to get canceled.

... they are sooo fuuuucked

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Too long, too much sillyness. Only a fool wants less competition as a consumer in a market.

no one is saying that dumb-dumb

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I'm browsing Twitter, and I have honestly never seen so many people actively turn on the Xbox brand in quite some time now.

I don't think even the June Showcase is gonna fix things either.

The brand is reaching its tipping point honestly. This was the final straw. It’s an absolute dumpster fire circus

I have never seen anything like this in the entire history of the industry. The last few years of Xbox has been absolutely wild.

From Microsoft delaying Halo “Craig” Infinite, to the acquisition of Bethesda, the great no show of 2022 games, the Activision dragged out drama and acquisition, the Redfall scandal and Phil going on a podcast almost in angry tears, Starfield launching with very mid reception and not selling hardware, Xbox starting to have massive hardware sales declines despite extremely cheap deals, to the layoffs in 2024, going total multiplatform and releasing games on PlayStation, giving up focus on Xbox hardware, and now closing studios that made some of the only great games they have.

What an absolutely batshit crazy time we live in. Their fanbase is in total ruins after all this. I don’t don’t how they manage to make this work over the next few years. It’s going to be very interesting to watch.

 

[Three]

There is more to the Twitter thread:

Sounds ridiculously arbitrary. Microsoft directive to Zenimax leadership: Cut two studios. Zenimax Leadership: we picked the two studios pitching projects rather than the ones working on projects. Might as well flip a coin.

It basically means the others are dead men walking. They didn't want to cancel projects but wanted to let people go.

This sounds made up TBH.
Seems very unlikely MS would hand Bethesda a gun and tell them to pick any two studios to kill. Their teams are all different sizes and have different costs associated, letting them pick wouldn’t make sense, unless they’re thinking;
“Well, they’re all fucked eventually.”

It makes sense though right? If Bethesda has been asked to downsize and cut costs they're less likely to get rid of people on active projects and more likely to get rid of those who have finished them and aren't actively working on anything and would even need to hire to work on anything else. Doesn't make it right but that's the logic behind it.

 

[Wolfpact1983]

Everyone

Philly boy

UwU

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Everyone saying industry would be same without Xbox, think again. They pioneered online games, their competitors are copying that in their systems even now to varying levels of success.

They have introduced engagement based metrics to gauge their games. Watch industry, especially their competitors scrambling to copy in their studios as well.

Why is this important?? Well, look at your backlog and lemme know how many games you started them left in between?? Seemingly great games with 95 metascore and countless awards.

Thats your answer.

 

[THE DUCK]

no one is saying that dumb-dumb

Pretty much exacty what you said: "the true justice is for Xbox to fuck the right out of this industry"
So for anyone with the intelligence to understand what that means, it means less competition in the console space. It isn't rocket science, but basic things elude you.

 

[Leopold]

Bought Hifi Rush. This is a travesty.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Pretty much exacty what you said: "the true justice is for Xbox to fuck the right out of this industry"
So for anyone with the intelligence to understand what that means, it means less competition in the console space. It isn't rocket science, but basic things elude you.

because they failed at providing competition.

fail at competing = no competition

What you want is for Play Station to remain without competition.. I am saying the opposite...

you can't see shit (or is the only thing you can see) when you have your head up your own new avatar :

 

[bishopcruz]

This is completely self inflicted and something a company opts in for. You can definitely make a polished, small game in less time with less money and release it to huge acclaim.

Is it though? Even small games are taking 4+ years to make. Hades 2 is now in early access, it's not a crazy super graphically intensive game, nor one with crazy scope. If it's early access period is as long as the original, it won't be done until 2026. If it's only a year in early access that's 2025.

And I'm not giving Supegiant crap in particular, but it is a thing all over. Because no one, big or small seems to be able to do it. Closest we have is RGG studio, and maybe Falcom. And even those studios are taking more and more time between releases. Nintendo had what, ONE 3d Mario this generation? A sequel to BoTW took 6 YEARS to make, and those graphics weren't revolutionary. This isn't a AAA only problem, it's just the worst there.

 

[bishopcruz]

This is why we're seeing GaaS, early access and MTX. Everyone's looking for a new way to earn money.

MTX at least have been around for nearly 2 decades. It's not just about some vague idea of corporate greed. Budgets are insane. Spiderman 2 needed 7 million in sales to break even, IIRC, and I doubt it is alone. Early Access itself is a byproduct of the time problem. No one without a major publisher behind them can sit around making no revenue for over half a decade making a game, even using the same engine and assets doesn't seem to help all that much nowadays. And the problem is it just isn't sustainable.

 

[Varteras]

LMAO first fucking reply on there!

 

[THE DUCK]

because they failed at providing competition.

fail at competing = no competition

What you want is for Play Station to remain without competition.. I am saying the opposite...

you can't see shit (or is the only thing you can see) when you have your head up your own new avatar :

Witty "pics" are the crutch of those with no point. Lame and childish.
If you really think MS is no competion, your completely lost.
Are they perfect? No. Have they sold as many consoles as they want? No.
But to say they are no competition at all to Sony is beyond absurd.

If it were not for MS:
You would not likely have the online system you have on Sony's console (xbox live)
You would have a worse controller
You would not have PS+, you could have even more expensive online play only
You would have had a more expensive PS2, PS3, PS4, and PS5
You would have less powerfull consoles each generation
Sony would not have spend as much on developing games to compete

And there is many more beyond this list.

But by all means, bring on the one dedicated console gaming "ecosystem". It will be great for consumers!
Hate MS/Xbox with rediculous massive bias all you want but this is by far the the dumbest thing you have said on here.
Keep on the hate train.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Witty "pics" are the crutch of those with no point. Lame and childish.
If you really think MS is no competion, your completely lost.
Are they perfect? No. Have they sold as many consoles as they want? No.
But to say they are no competition at all to Sony is beyond absurd.

If it were not for MS:
You would not likely have the online system you have on Sony's console (xbox live)
You would have a worse controller
You would not have PS+, you could have even more expensive online play only
You would have had a more expensive PS2, PS3, PS4, and PS5
You would have less powerfull consoles each generation
Sony would not have spend as much on developing games to compete

And there is many more beyond this list.

But by all means, bring on the one dedicated console gaming "ecosystem". It will be great for consumers!
Hate MS/Xbox with rediculous massive bias all you want but this is by far the the dumbest thing you have said on here.
Keep on the hate train.

Too long, too much sillyness. .

my dude I hope this is just a bit. (like the little chicken one)

If not, you are beyond pathetic, when the already pathetic shills online are done with MS/Xbox fucking bullshit. reflect on that for a moment.

 

[Daneel Elijah]

Witty "pics" are the crutch of those with no point. Lame and childish.
If you really think MS is no competion, your completely lost.
Are they perfect? No. Have they sold as many consoles as they want? No.
But to say they are no competition at all to Sony is beyond absurd.

If it were not for MS:
You would not likely have the online system you have on Sony's console (xbox live)
You would have a worse controller
You would not have PS+, you could have even more expensive online play only
You would have had a more expensive PS2, PS3, PS4, and PS5
You would have less powerfull consoles each generation
Sony would not have spend as much on developing games to compete

And there is many more beyond this list.

But by all means, bring on the one dedicated console gaming "ecosystem". It will be great for consumers!
Hate MS/Xbox with rediculous massive bias all you want but this is by far the the dumbest thing you have said on here.
Keep on the hate train.

If not for MS maybe Sony could have waited long enough for the Cell to be a sucess. It would have led to a PS3 with more legs and a Sony monopoly on gaming could have led them to invest more in hardware and led to a PS4 with a modernised Cell, maybe made Sony a concurrent to AMD and Intel. Beautiful what a IF can led you to.
Going back to your post. Was MS competition? It was. Are they still a competitor now? And more importantly, good competition? Buying Activision is not good competition to me. Steam is good competition. Nintendo is good competiton. Great games made by great studios are good competition. Outside of MS money, and the consequenced of it, good and bad, what did Xbox did recently that can be considered smart/be a genuine win for them? For me Palword could be it. Because they are more lax and accept games in early access they got a game that sold a lot. Outside of it I don't see a lot of things, but I don't have a Xbox console so maybe you know more about it.

 

[bitbydeath]

And there is many more beyond this list

Your list is dumb.

You would not likely have the online system you have on Sony's console (xbox live)

On no, we would not be paying for online!

You would have a worse controller

What did Xbox bring in this space aside from messed up sticks and a stupidly large controller that continues to run on AA batteries? Xbox is severely lagging in the controller space.

You would not have PS+, you could have even more expensive online play only

PS+ is a negative when it comes to the games industry, as it allows gamers to buy less games, and with that support developers less. As mentioned above online could be free, MS brought those chargers.

You would have had a more expensive PS2, PS3, PS4, and PS5

PS2 arrived before Xbox, and we got a more expensive PS3 after Xbox arrived, so if anything it would be that Xbox made everything more expensive.

You would have less powerfull consoles each generation
Sony would not have spend as much on developing games to compete

You must have missed the PS1 and PS2 generations, otherwise you’d know that isn’t true.

 

[Klayzer]

Your list is dumb.


On no, we would not be paying for online!


What did Xbox bring in this space aside from messed up sticks and a stupidly large controller that continues to run on AA batteries? Xbox is severely lagging in the controller space.


PS+ is a negative when it comes to the games industry, as it allows gamers to buy less games, and with that support developers less. As mentioned above online could be free, MS brought those chargers.


PS2 arrived before Xbox, and we got a more expensive PS3 after Xbox arrived, so if anything it would be that Xbox made everything more expensive.


You must have missed the PS1 and PS2 generations, otherwise you’d know that isn’t true.

Dude is just swinging and missing all over the place.

 

[THE DUCK]

If not for MS maybe Sony could have waited long enough for the Cell to be a sucess. It would have led to a PS3 with more legs and a Sony monopoly on gaming could have led them to invest more in hardware and led to a PS4 with a modernised Cell, maybe made Sony a concurrent to AMD and Intel. Beautiful what a IF can led you to.
Going back to your post. Was MS competition? It was. Are they still a competitor now? And more importantly, good competition? Buying Activision is not good competition to me. Steam is good competition. Nintendo is good competiton. Great games made by great studios are good competition. Outside of MS money, and the consequenced of it, good and bad, what did Xbox did recently that can be considered smart/be a genuine win for them? For me Palword could be it. Because they are more lax and accept games in early access they got a game that sold a lot. Outside of it I don't see a lot of things, but I don't have a Xbox console so maybe you know more about it.

True, who knows what road it would have led down. But you could even argue that cell would have never been designed and developed if not for Xbox (and nintendo).

For sure quality competition is better than weak competition. I don't think it matters as consumers if ms wins or not, as long as Sony sees them as a credibile threat and competes to keep them that way, a threat instead of a leader.

I think it's clear that even today, Sony and every major news, gaming, mainstream sees them as a credible threat. As much as this forum says they are done, they still have a lot of valuable IP's and a huge swath of credible developers, and a capable hardware team. You may see them pivot and bring out older games on other systems, or even all games.

But more likely they will release older games similar to what Sony is doing on pc and continue to release hardware. Speculation would be an "uber" console and or a hybrid handheld.
I don't see how either would be bad for consumers - more choice.

 

[bishopcruz]

One thing I will say, I am amazed at how much outrage there is over this.

Arkane Austin was not a successful studio financially. Prey may have been great but no one bought it. And it took 6 years to release Redfall, and we all know how that went. As for Tango Gameworks, man it hurts to say but no one gave a crap about them in general. Hifi Reush is amazing, I am gutted that it won't get a sequel, but if the amount of people crying about Tango getting shut down had bought the games, well... it wouldn't have made much of a difference, sadly. All of Tango's games did... ok at best. Only one of them was a critical darling, and none of them were large commercial successes. The founder of the studio left it and of all the Bethesda studios that would get cut, those two are the ones that in any analysis would be. Machine Games is working on Indy, Id sure as hell isn't getting closed, And Arkane Lyon is doing Blade. If the higher ups want downsizing, where else are they going to go?

All of MS's other studios had games in active development, or due for release within the next couple of years. It's a tale as old as time, studios that make great games that don't sell as well as they should often get shuttered. Remember Japan Studios on the Sony side of things? I'm still bitter that Gravity Rush 2 didn't do well.

But this all just restates the precarious position gaming is in right now. When a game takes 5 years or more to make, a single flop can kill a studio and a modest success might do it too.

 

[THE DUCK]

Your list is dumb.


On no, we would not be paying for online!


What did Xbox bring in this space aside from messed up sticks and a stupidly large controller that continues to run on AA batteries? Xbox is severely lagging in the controller space.


PS+ is a negative when it comes to the games industry, as it allows gamers to buy less games, and with that support developers less. As mentioned above online could be free, MS brought those chargers.


PS2 arrived before Xbox, and we got a more expensive PS3 after Xbox arrived, so if anything it would be that Xbox made everything more expensive.


You must have missed the PS1 and PS2 generations, otherwise you’d know that isn’t true.

What? Of course we would be paying for online, even Nintendo's ultra crap system charges. You think out of the kindness of thier heart Sony would have never charged? Ok.

You hate Xbox controllers so they are all crap?
Far better in every generation than dual shock crap until ps5 came out, finally a revision that was actually comfortable. AA largely considered an advantage by many people on this board. You have it backwards.

Ps+ is a negative? Tell that to like 30 million plus that like and enjoy it.

In your world the ps2 and ps3 exist in development and pricing in some sort of vacuum. Plua both consoles went back and forth with pricing wars for years.

Blinders are on full force, if you really think ms had no effect.

 

[bitbydeath]

What? Of course we would be paying for online, even Nintendo's ultra crap system charges. You think out of the kindness of thier heart Sony would have never charged? Ok.

It could have gone either way, but it was Microsoft who kicked it off, and you’re supposed to be arguing about good competition they brought and instead went with negatives.

You hate Xbox controllers so they are all crap?
Far better in every generation than dual shock crap until ps5 came out, finally a revision that was actually comfortable. AA largely considered an advantage by many people on this board. You have it backwards.

What did they innovate that stuck around on controllers? That should be your point, not just they made controllers. AA batteries are costly and more time consuming.

Ps+ is a negative? Tell that to like 30 million plus that like and enjoy it.

Negative for the industry, it’s a plus for consumers. It hurts developers.

In your world the ps2 and ps3 exist in development and pricing in some sort of vacuum. Plua both consoles went back and forth with pricing wars for years.

Sony set everything up with the PS1 and PS2, they had ample opportunity to charge high prices before Xbox came on the scene.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Going back to your post. Was MS competition? It was. Are they still a competitor now? And more importantly, good competition? Buying Activision is not good competition to me. Steam is good competition. Nintendo is good competiton. Great games made by great studios are good competition. Outside of MS money, and the consequenced of it, good and bad, what did Xbox did recently that can be considered smart/be a genuine win for them? For me Palword could be it. Because they are more lax and accept games in early access they got a game that sold a lot. Outside of it I don't see a lot of things, but I don't have a Xbox console so maybe you know more about it.

I dont think a recent specific, big win is needed to be an important part of industry.

Gaming will be in a far better place if it stepped away from hype cycles to drive interest in games.

It needs to be a natural thing, like picking up a remote and watching TV. You go home and just start playing, instead of watching reviews to convince yourself the game you are about to play is a masterpiece.

 

[DryvBy]

Witty "pics" are the crutch of those with no point. Lame and childish.
If you really think MS is no competion, your completely lost.
Are they perfect? No. Have they sold as many consoles as they want? No.
But to say they are no competition at all to Sony is beyond absurd.

If it were not for MS:
You would not likely have the online system you have on Sony's console (xbox live)
You would have a worse controller
You would not have PS+, you could have even more expensive online play only
You would have had a more expensive PS2, PS3, PS4, and PS5
You would have less powerfull consoles each generation
Sony would not have spend as much on developing games to compete

And there is many more beyond this list.

But by all means, bring on the one dedicated console gaming "ecosystem". It will be great for consumers!
Hate MS/Xbox with rediculous massive bias all you want but this is by far the the dumbest thing you have said on here.
Keep on the hate train.

Original Xbox is S-tier to me. Nothing since has been good.

You're acting like MS isn't greedy or innovative. They haven't been innovative in 20 years. All they've done is copied ideas and made things expensive. This was prophecy at this point.

PC is currently compared to consoles for a reason and it's the real competition of Sony while also being its friend. Xbox isn't competing. It requires them to come out with stellar games and make use of the treasure trove of franchises they have. They bought Rare how many years ago and Conker's still doesn't have a sequel? They'd rather come out with a new stupid gimmick like the magnetic sleeve or a new paint job on their failed console. They'd show off the diversity of their teams before compelling gameplay.

When it's all said and done, I just hope they continue to let teams remaster the games they bought over the years so we can enjoy them on modern systems. But that seems too complicated for them too.

Notice how even Sony fans busted the chops of Sony with Helldivers 2 and it worked? Quit making excuses for Xbox and maybe you'd get some games and a better CEO. Phil sucks.

 

[THE DUCK]

It could have gone either way, but it was Microsoft who kicked it off, and you’re supposed to be arguing about good competition they brought and instead went with negatives.


What did they innovate that stuck around on controllers? That should be your point, not just they made controllers. AA batteries are costly and more time consuming.


Negative for the industry, it’s a plus for consumers. It hurts developers.


Sony set everything up with the PS1 and PS2, they had ample opportunity to charge high prices before Xbox came on the scene.

Xbox live wasn't a negative, it literally innovated how we interact online on consoles, chat, friends lists, etc. It was one of the things people loved about Xbox.

Controllers evolve more than innovate. Some found Xbox controllers much more comfortable. Some consider the elite II (when it's not broken) to be one of the best controllers you can get. The AA batteries thing is being way more costly isn't true, I bought a $30 charging deck for my ps5 and $30 charging dock fir my xbox that came with aa rechargeables for $30. With a dead ps controller or one you forgot to charge, you have to run a long cable, with xbox you grab a pair of aa. It's a wash at worst.

Sony did not have ample opportunity to jack up ps1 and ps2 as it had nintendo as a viable home console competitor.

 

[THE DUCK]

Original Xbox is S-tier to me. Nothing since has been good.

You're acting like MS isn't greedy or innovative. They haven't been innovative in 20 years. All they've done is copied ideas and made things expensive. This was prophecy at this point.

PC is currently compared to consoles for a reason and it's the real competition of Sony while also being its friend. Xbox isn't competing. It requires them to come out with stellar games and make use of the treasure trove of franchises they have. They bought Rare how many years ago and Conker's still doesn't have a sequel? They'd rather come out with a new stupid gimmick like the magnetic sleeve or a new paint job on their failed console. They'd show off the diversity of their teams before compelling gameplay.

When it's all said and done, I just hope they continue to let teams remaster the games they bought over the years so we can enjoy them on modern systems. But that seems too complicated for them too.

Notice how even Sony fans busted the chops of Sony with Helldivers 2 and it worked? Quit making excuses for Xbox and maybe you'd get some games and a better CEO. Phil sucks.

I never once said ms wasn't greedy (like most big corporations). They have copied most of thier ideas, but they have helped push things foreward too. Even just looking at hardware, thier hardware teans have done a good job with thier designs.

Saying they help push Sony to do more than without having them isn't a stretch.
Om not making excuses for anyone, I have no issue with a CEO change.

 

[sendit]

A relevant visual from the Xbox Power King thread:

 

[Three]

Xbox live wasn't a negative, it literally innovated how we interact online on consoles, chat, friends lists, etc. It was one of the things people loved about Xbox.

Yes but this existed in MS Gaming Zone on PC before. The only difference was they brought it to xbox and started charging, then tried to take the charging part back to Zone by rebranding everything to GFWL on that platform and luckily failed.

 

[THE DUCK]

Yes but this existed in MS Gaming Zone on PC before. The only difference was they brought it to xbox and started charging, then tried to take the charging part back to Zone by rebranding everything to GFWL on that platform and luckily failed.

Not quite the same plug and play experience.
Pc gaming back then makes me blue screen just thinking about it.

 

[FewRope]

Tango's closure really made people mad.
and Matt Booty has the fucking balls to say today that they need smaller games to win awards and prestige.


if HB2 is another disappointing game... bro.....I just imagine the narrative after the showcase:

1. that's studio is going to be closed
2. thats another disappointing game.
3.oh, another game in dev hell, is going to get canceled.

... they are sooo fuuuucked

They need smaller games to win awards and prestige but also they are killing the last remaining stronghold of creativity inside Bethesda, Arkane Austin may have fucked up with Redfall, but they could have made a new Dishonored or a Prey 2. Maybe those game wouldnt sell but for sure they help to build a fucking personality, something Xbox never fucking had since Halo 3 and Gears 2

 

[DForce]

Witty "pics" are the crutch of those with no point. Lame and childish.
If you really think MS is no competion, your completely lost.
Are they perfect? No. Have they sold as many consoles as they want? No.
But to say they are no competition at all to Sony is beyond absurd.

If it were not for MS:
You would not likely have the online system you have on Sony's console (xbox live)
You would have a worse controller
You would not have PS+, you could have even more expensive online play only
You would have had a more expensive PS2, PS3, PS4, and PS5
You would have less powerfull consoles each generation
Sony would not have spend as much on developing games to compete

And there is many more beyond this list.

But by all means, bring on the one dedicated console gaming "ecosystem". It will be great for consumers!
Hate MS/Xbox with rediculous massive bias all you want but this is by far the the dumbest thing you have said on here.
Keep on the hate train.

- Online gaming was a thing before Xbox. Do you remember things like GameSpy back in the day?
- Dualshock controllers are considered among the best. Microsoft released the OG Xbox with the a big ass spaceship controller
- Microsoft made it more expensive. You could play online games for free before the PlayStation 4
- What the hell does Microsoft have to do with PlayStation's price? Sony was competing with Sega and Nintendo.
- Sony always picked hardware choices outside of the PS3 era. Power was a factor BEFORE Microsoft entered the console space


Xbox guys LOVE to give Microsoft a lot of credit and ignore all the terrible decisions they have made in the past.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Xbox guys LOVE to give Microsoft a lot of credit and ignore all the terrible decisions they have made in the past.

Nah, I don’t think they get enough credit, cause most of the things they do are not tangible games.

Fanboys are mostly like: Look, Sony released a new God of War (2018). It has 90+ metacritic, beat RDR2 at GOTY awards, and is taking industry forward.

Doesn’t matter its design is copied from Darksiders series or countless other action adventure games.

 

[Klayzer]

- Online gaming was a thing before Xbox. Do you remember things like GameSpy back in the day?
- Dualshock controllers are considered among the best. Microsoft released the OG Xbox with the a big ass spaceship controller
- Microsoft made it more expensive. You could play online games for free before the PlayStation 4
- What the hell does Microsoft have to do with PlayStation's price? Sony was competing with Sega and Nintendo.
- Sony always picked hardware choices outside of the PS3 era. Power was a factor BEFORE Microsoft entered the console space


Xbox guys LOVE to give Microsoft a lot of credit and ignore all the terrible decisions they have made in the past.

Paid fuckin online, maid standard by Microsoft. Sony and Nintendo couldn't resist all that's free scratch for doing absolutely nothing.

Eventually, all three console makers gangbanged our asses with paid online.

 

[THE DUCK]

- Online gaming was a thing before Xbox. Do you remember things like GameSpy back in the day?
- Dualshock controllers are considered among the best. Microsoft released the OG Xbox with the a big ass spaceship controller
- Microsoft made it more expensive. You could play online games for free before the PlayStation 4
- What the hell does Microsoft have to do with PlayStation's price? Sony was competing with Sega and Nintendo.
- Sony always picked hardware choices outside of the PS3 era. Power was a factor BEFORE Microsoft entered the console space


Xbox guys LOVE to give Microsoft a lot of credit and ignore all the terrible decisions they have made in the past.

Xbox live >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gamespy.

People like dual shock, people also like Xbox controllers.

So MS now forced Sony to charge for online? Really? And your contending then that if Xbox live never existed Sony would have had zero inkling to charge? Seems very far fetched.

Of Ms was also competing with sony, the ps3 and xbox 360 sold almost the same amount of units. It was all out war.
Revisionist history to say they were not competing with ms.

Sure power was always a factor, but decision on how much to sell it for and how to put in each one are driven as much by what the competition is going to do as the desire to offer an upgraded experience. The teams go and ask, how can we be better than "x". If it's just the prior console, motivation would be far weaker.

Sony guys love to give ms zero credit and pretend that no good decisions were made in the past.

 

[bitbydeath]

Xbox live wasn't a negative, it literally innovated how we interact online on consoles, chat, friends lists, etc. It was one of the things people loved about Xbox.

It came at a cost, a literal cost.

Controllers evolve more than innovate. Some found Xbox controllers much more comfortable. Some consider the elite II (when it's not broken) to be one of the best controllers you can get. The AA batteries thing is being way more costly isn't true, I bought a $30 charging deck for my ps5 and $30 charging dock fir my xbox that came with aa rechargeables for $30. With a dead ps controller or one you forgot to charge, you have to run a long cable, with xbox you grab a pair of aa. It's a wash at worst.

Mobile phones also went the non-replaceable battery route which shows how popular that method become. Some may prefer AA’s but it’s not the current tech standard, even Nintendo evolved.

Sony did not have ample opportunity to jack up ps1 and ps2 as it had nintendo as a viable home console competitor.

And they still do.

 

[DForce]

Nah, I don’t think they get enough credit, cause most of the things they do are not tangible games.

Fanboys are mostly like: Look, Sony released a new God of War (2018). It has 90+ metacritic, beat RDR2 at GOTY awards, and is taking industry forward.

Doesn’t matter its design is copied from Darksiders series or countless other action adventure games.

This has to be a joke. lol

- The Cloud was hyped alongside Crackdown 3 and that went nowhere.
- Game Pass was praised for years but that's turning out to be a complete flop.
- Microsoft convinced its fans that power was everything. "True 4k," "Full RDNA 2."
- Microsoft touted players/engagement as a measurement of success.
- Phil made the Xbox fans believe this led to more sales but now we're seeing how hurting them.
- Microsoft has convinced people that exclusives are bad right after they stopped several games from being released on PlayStation.


Microsoft should get praised for finessing their fanbase.

 

[Daneel Elijah]

True, who knows what road it would have led down. But you could even argue that cell would have never been designed and developed if not for Xbox (and nintendo).

For sure quality competition is better than weak competition. I don't think it matters as consumers if ms wins or not, as long as Sony sees them as a credibile threat and competes to keep them that way, a threat instead of a leader.

I think it's clear that even today, Sony and every major news, gaming, mainstream sees them as a credible threat. As much as this forum says they are done, they still have a lot of valuable IP's and a huge swath of credible developers, and a capable hardware team. You may see them pivot and bring out older games on other systems, or even all games.

But more likely they will release older games similar to what Sony is doing on pc and continue to release hardware. Speculation would be an "uber" console and or a hybrid handheld.
I don't see how either would be bad for consumers - more choice.

For me MS is mostly using money to compete more than working hard to give us good reasons to go for them. I am curious to see how they will try to compete for next gen and hope that this time they try to have a vision that is better than that. Remember that each time they failed to convince customers to see the market their way, they tried to find new ones. First PC, now maybe the others consoles. For next gen maybe even working directly with Steam to have it on their console. If this is not proof that they abilityvto compete is weak and is getting weaker each gen, I am curious to see what would you need to see things my way.

 

[Fess]

So it is now that I'll take the opportunity to find a cheap promo code for gamepass and play the game for "free!".

Best deal in gaming

Yeah I’ve done that for Gamepass Ultimate for last 6 years, no shame. Not using promo codes but two stacking methods, XBL and EAP cards, ended up as $5/month, or half a pizza.
Half that length on PS+ Premium through PSNow conversion. Zero shame.

Still no sure what to do with Hellblade 2 though since my GP sub has ended and I only use Steam now. Not a fan of paying full price for story focused games, not worth the money imo. Could possibly do it if they add some good bonus content on a early access Steam release and if there are some cool mods. Or I could just get a 14 day sub for $1 and endure using the GP launcher.

 

[DForce]

Xbox live >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gamespy.

Do you even realize what you're saying?

You said Sony would not have the online system if it weren't for Microsoft. Many of the online features from Xbox Live during the OG Xbox was taken from PC online play features.

People like dual shock, people also like Xbox controllers.

You said "worse" controller as if you think Microsoft made PlayStation improve their game. PlayStation consoles were praised before Xbox. Xbox had one of the worst controller designs ever.

So MS now forced Sony to charge for online? Really? And your contending then that if Xbox live never existed Sony would have had zero inkling to charge? Seems very far fetched.

You said it would have been more expensive. Microsoft made it more expensive by having an online subscription service with the OG Xbox. I played PS2, and PS3 games online for free.

Do you want to sit here and say that it was more expensive to play games online for PS2?

Of Ms was also competing with sony, the ps3 and xbox 360 sold almost the same amount of units. It was all out war.
Revisionist history to say they were not competing with ms.

Sure power was always a factor, but decision on how much to sell it for and how to put in each one are driven as much by what the competition is going to do as the desire to offer an upgraded experience. The teams go and ask, how can we be better than "x". If it's just the prior console, motivation would be far weaker.

You just gave Microsoft credit for the PS2's price point. You're saying a bunch of crap that makes no sense.

Sony guys love to give ms zero credit and pretend that no good decisions were made in the past.

Just name 3 things they should be praised for that is beneficial to the gaming industry this generation. I'm curious to see what you have to say.

 

[Daneel Elijah]

I dont think a recent specific, big win is needed to be an important part of industry.

Gaming will be in a far better place if it stepped away from hype cycles to drive interest in games.

It needs to be a natural thing, like picking up a remote and watching TV. You go home and just start playing, instead of watching reviews to convince yourself the game you are about to play is a masterpiece.

I was talking about competition and wins should be seen in that regard. When Xbox customers learned that Xbox will have a BC program, it was a win. For the rest I agree with you.

 

[MasterCornholio]

"Activision purchase has ramped up scrutiny on Xbox"

Ding ding ding.

|OT| - Microsoft / Activision Deal Approval Watch |OT| (MS/ABK close)

The move was weird. I guess this means MS cracked down UK to their will. Wonder how @Banjo64 feels when he hears this news. Getting the milkshake ready for @Ass of Can Whooping

www.neogaf.com

So it's Phils career moment?

 

[kyussman]

I was a PlayStation owner when Microsoft purchased Bethesda and my first thought was,I'm gonna have to get an Xbox now to play Dishonored and possible Prey or The Evil Within games,well played Phil Spencer......now all those franchises are dead and I've less interest than ever before in owning an Xbox.....again,well played Phil Spencer,lol.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

we're still getting the "xBoX iS gOdD fOr cOmPeTiTiOn" argument in 2024? lol

 

[Schmendrick]

Xbox live wasn't a negative, it literally innovated how we interact online on consoles, chat, friends lists, etc. It was one of the things people loved about Xbox.

Are you seriously forgetting Steam or even the BattleNet before it right now?
MS innovated nothing, they were just the first to (very crudely)copy what we already had on PC on console....
And with how consoles became more and more PC like and the dawn of true multiplat that would've happened with or without MS anyways in some form.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Pretty much exacty what you said: "the true justice is for Xbox to fuck the right out of this industry"
So for anyone with the intelligence to understand what that means, it means less competition in the console space. It isn't rocket science, but basic things elude you.

The retarded wrecking ball that is M$ staying in this industry is worse than a sony monopoly.

 

[Daneel Elijah]

One thing I will say, I am amazed at how much outrage there is over this.

Arkane Austin was not a successful studio financially. Prey may have been great but no one bought it. And it took 6 years to release Redfall, and we all know how that went. As for Tango Gameworks, man it hurts to say but no one gave a crap about them in general. Hifi Reush is amazing, I am gutted that it won't get a sequel, but if the amount of people crying about Tango getting shut down had bought the games, well... it wouldn't have made much of a difference, sadly. All of Tango's games did... ok at best. Only one of them was a critical darling, and none of them were large commercial successes. The founder of the studio left it and of all the Bethesda studios that would get cut, those two are the ones that in any analysis would be. Machine Games is working on Indy, Id sure as hell isn't getting closed, And Arkane Lyon is doing Blade. If the higher ups want downsizing, where else are they going to go?

All of MS's other studios had games in active development, or due for release within the next couple of years. It's a tale as old as time, studios that make great games that don't sell as well as they should often get shuttered. Remember Japan Studios on the Sony side of things? I'm still bitter that Gravity Rush 2 didn't do well.

But this all just restates the precarious position gaming is in right now. When a game takes 5 years or more to make, a single flop can kill a studio and a modest success might do it too.

We are not a news site or a financial one. Just a forum. And the "outrage" you see is the natural conclusion of Xbox decisions that are hard to swallow for me and maybe some of us. Xbox made the choice to buy Bethesda. They started the process in 2020. We know that Redfall and Hi Fi rush both began to work on the game around 2018. Xbox could have done a certain number of moves back then. We know what they did. They let them continue working on it until completion. Put the games out of PS5 to make them Xbox exclusives. Put the games on Gamepass day one. Pushed the one that was in bad shape by making it the first 70$ game from Xbox, and make it close a Xbox conference. Throw the other one with basically no marketing and then be pleasantly surprised when it somehow got liked by critics and gamers, with great reviews.
Then kill both studios 1 year after their games have been made available to gamers.

This raise questions. Did Gamepass helped or harmed both studios? How could have Xbox done better? And the same people that have been unhappy about some of Xbox decisions can naturally be unhappy by the decision to end 2 studios that could have been saved with some help from a company that needs them. If Xbox had accepted to make those 2 games multiplatform, maybe they would have been profitable. If Xbox had made the right choice to end Redfall and asked Arkane to make another game instead the studio could have been 3 years in making another hit like Prey with the right management. I know that saying that is too optimistic but it could have been.

Instead they lied to us about their plans for both studios. What more do you need?

 

[SoraNoKuni]

Man... They just can't, they can't handle creativity and for sure they can't develop games.
This is so sad.

 

[Darkness_Arises]

What did Xbox bring in this space aside from messed up sticks and a stupidly large controller that continues to run on AA batteries? Xbox is severely lagging in the controller space.

I have no idea why MS fans keep on praising the backwards ass Xbox controller. The dualsense is absolutely awesome, yeah the battery runs out in 4-5 hours, how is that a problem in this day and age where there are a dozen usb c chargers in every house. I don't even own a PS5 and I bought a purple DS to experience the haptics and triggers while playing a rift apart on my docked steam deck. It is a completely transformative experience in supported games. Even in unsupported games, the vibrations are really refined (stronger version of iphone, high end android haptics), steam gyro support is great.

 

[AyraSutoraifu]

The brand is reaching its tipping point honestly. This was the final straw. It’s an absolute dumpster fire circus

I have never seen anything like this in the entire history of the industry. The last few years of Xbox has been absolutely wild.

From Microsoft delaying Halo “Craig” Infinite, to the acquisition of Bethesda, the great no show of 2022 games, the Activision dragged out drama and acquisition, the Redfall scandal and Phil going on a podcast almost in angry tears, Starfield launching with very mid reception and not selling hardware, Xbox starting to have massive hardware sales declines despite extremely cheap deals, to the layoffs in 2024, going total multiplatform and releasing games on PlayStation, giving up focus on Xbox hardware, and now closing studios that made some of the only great games they have.

What an absolutely batshit crazy time we live in. Their fanbase is in total ruins after all this. I don’t don’t how they manage to make this work over the next few years. It’s going to be very interesting to watch.

And people like that colt dude still defending it. Fine by me, the quicker xbox dies.

 

[eerik9000]

Stop comparing Xbox to PlayStation. Microsoft doesn't compete with such tiny companies with market capitalization under a trillion dollars. That would be bullying, like taking a candy from a small child. Their competition is Amazon and Google.

Phil's own words:

When you talk about Nintendo and Sony, we have a ton of respect for them, but we see Amazon and Google as the main competitors going forward," Spencer said. "That's not to disrespect Nintendo and Sony, but the traditional gaming companies are somewhat out of position. I guess they could try to re-create Azure, but we've invested tens of billions of dollars in cloud over the years.

 

[FunkMiller]

Yeah, not sure how mass-cancellations would help the developers any. Literally the only possible result there is more closures.

You think the devs are seeing any money from GamePass subscriptions?

The only people mass GamePass cancellations would hurt are Xbox executives.

It's abundantly clear the devs get fucked whatever happens.