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[Evil Calvin]

Well, considering the few posts by developers criticizing the parity of the XS and XSX and the XS weaker specs, it may only get worse from here on out. If 3rd party developers start leaving the Xbox in the dust because of the XS then it will be a HUGE issue. I have both systems but I can imagine gamers may flock to the PS5 to get their games if MS keeps insisting on platform parity. Shut the XS down already.

 

[avin]

We've now seen two reasons the XSS doesn't scale the way the designers assumed. Those would be RAM needed for BVH structures for ray-tracing, and RAM needed for local co-op when players aren't in the same world space. Both seem to derive from the amount of RAM. A lesson there, who knows if it'll be remembered or even relevant in future.

A few posters here may have predicted this, I don't remember. But as I remember it, the vast majority of naysayers weren't that specific, instead focusing on the 4TF metric. They missed the mark, as I certainly did. Still, I do think MS should have been able to predict both of these limitations, and that's on them.

avin

 

[Dick Jones]

Not gonna lie this really pisses me off, MS temper tantrum panic buying a publisher when they realised its the only way to secure more exclusives for their platform. I hope Sony buys Capcom,Kadokawa,and Take Two, cancel Xbox versions of already announced games, make GTA 6 exclusive,Elden Ring expansion pc/ps5 only,thats fair trade for MS being petulant little cunts.

Hoovering up of major third party publishers is shit overall. Try not to be like the pathetic cunts who cheerlead the removal of game franchises off other platforms.

 

[cebri.one]

September PS5
2024 Xbox

 

[CamHostage]

Do people really play these games split screen?

Doing a quick spot-check of available reviews and review-in-progress, none of the top 8 I clicked on mention the feature. (I would think splitscreen is a bigger draw in a console couch than on PC, but the feature is on both. ) They barely talk about online or co-op even (though they came out while the game is fresh and so most leave that aspect of the review for an update when players are on.)

Lariat will do the math on whether this feature got used enough to be worth ask this once all versions are out, but at the very least, it's not a common feature for some clear reasons, and we'll see if this game can disprove those reasons...

I can tell you as a first time player of the D&D franchise. Co-op. IS A MUST. While it can work for single-player. It wouldn't be the same.

Er, yeah, but this isn't just co-op. Co-op, they could do, online just fine already (also LAN); even typical splitscreen, they could do. But as i understand it, this is drop-in-anywhere, roam-anywhere, splitscreen co-op.

it's basically two copies of the game playable in the same window, and each player can conceivably go anywhere they want in the area. (Typical co-op tethers players close to one another so that the game doesn't need to keep track of much more than a small play area beyond the host.) Leaving an area still triggers a dialog box apparently, even online, and I'm not sure how big an "area" is before it requires players to resynch, but you can imagine the challenge of two separate game experiences really adding up.

(Also, even on PC, it requires 2 controllers, no M&K allowed, so there are other weird complications about how they built this mode...)

 

[CamHostage]

 

[Venom Snake]

Nah, Microsoft sent their engineers there to sabotage the development process so that the game didn't come out at the same time as Starfield.
I mean, have you ever seen two games come out at the same time? It doesn't make any sense!

I hope they beat their devkits to a bloody pulp, what were they thinking??

Spoiler

Mr. Spencer, can i get a controller that doesn't smell like cheese?

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Well, considering the few posts by developers criticizing the parity of the XS and XSX and the XS weaker specs, it may only get worse from here on out. If 3rd party developers start leaving the Xbox in the dust because of the XS then it will be a HUGE issue. I have both systems but I can imagine gamers may flock to the PS5 to get their games if MS keeps insisting on platform parity. Shut the XS down already.

It'll get worse for this generation, but it'll be dire for the next generation.

XSX won't get many cross-gen games because it'll be a pain to make these games work on XSS. So you can bet that towards the tail end of this generation once the new generation starts, PS5 will continue to get support while XSX falls off on many cross-gen games. This will make things very difficult for the next Xbox console and reeks of Sega Saturn to Dreamcast to me.

Sega rushed the Dreamcast out and it didn't even play Saturn games, so why would you if you were a Saturn owner put any trust or faith into Sega?

The next 3 years or so are going to be very tough for Microsoft, especially if the PS5 Pro does come out and has no direct competitor from Microsoft.

If Sony sandwiches the XSX between PS5 Slim and the PS5 Pro in pricing, it'll be very difficult for Microsoft to market this console. I really think Microsoft screwed the pooch here and they've built themselves into an untenable and unescapable situation all because they thought they could undercut Sony on price and that would be the largest determination of demand in the console space.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Finally getting a steady stream of current-gen only titles and the S is already hamstringing this gen, wow. Whoever’s idea the S was should get Mattricked.

They assumed the XSS would be the leading console in sales and that would guide development around it.

The pandemic, stimulus, and increased spending capabilities made the XSS extremely undesirable.

The proliferation of cheap affordable 4KTVs has made it even less desirable.

It's clear as day to consumers that the XSS is a step-down machine with no future-proofing. We've really never seen a company knee cap themselves like this.

 

[Freelance Yakuza]

It's fucking annoying, this trend in modern games that requires you to have friends in order to have fun. It's getting harder and harder to fully enjoy a game.
Thank god XSS is saving us from this

 

[iHaunter]

so Larian was telling the truth the whole time and this wasn’t because they were ‘paid’ by Sony unlike the BS that quite a few users on here were pushing

No, the reality is, XSS is a piece of crap. So they need special treatment to games to run properly on that antiquated system.

 

[Xenon]

It's nice to see company is bring back split screen gaming. If only it wasn't the title that has bear lovin. I hope somewhere down-the-line. Somebody finds such a good idea to make a rated pg version of this game.

 

[CuNi]

Well, considering the few posts by developers criticizing the parity of the XS and XSX and the XS weaker specs, it may only get worse from here on out. If 3rd party developers start leaving the Xbox in the dust because of the XS then it will be a HUGE issue. I have both systems but I can imagine gamers may flock to the PS5 to get their games if MS keeps insisting on platform parity. Shut the XS down already.

I find those speculation posts funny. You're here saying that might drive people to flock to ps5 and at the same time in the merger thread, the sentiment is that if cod gets added to gamepass, gamers will flood to Xbox .

I'm not saying either is wrong or right, I just think it's amusing to see those absolutely opposite doom scenarios be posted.

 

[Starbuck2907]

Yes it was.

And I still suspect that Starfield's 30 FPS is primarily a parity (Series S) bottleneck.

I don’t think the parity situation applies to frame rate. I think just gameplay feature parity. I think Digital Foundry has reviews were the S and X run at different frame rates.

 

[Goalus]

Apparently the game runs on Steam Deck. But it supposedly cannot run on Series S? That's funny to hear.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Apparently the game runs on Steam Deck. But it supposedly cannot run on Series S? That's funny to hear.

More RAM .

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

Apparently the game runs on Steam Deck. But it supposedly cannot run on Series S? That's funny to hear.

The Steam Deck version didn't have split screen enabled. They were willing to do the same for Series S but XBOX SAID NO.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Apparently the game runs on Steam Deck. But it supposedly cannot run on Series S? That's funny to hear.

Steam deck version has drop-in and out anytime local splitscreen?

Shittake award post...

 

[Mr Reasonable]

It'll get worse for this generation, but it'll be dire for the next generation.

XSX won't get many cross-gen games because it'll be a pain to make these games work on XSS.

Nah, it won't.

This game is a problem because of the local split screen. Most games aren't split screen.

All you need to do is look at 99.9% of games that run on Series S as intended. There's no reason to think that something fundamental is going to change in how 99.9% of games run to make them impossible on Series S.

What's more, though people talk about Xbox being left in the dust, what we've got here is a developer prepared to spend months of additional development time to get the game out on Xbox. Seems like they think it's worth doing, again, not sure why that'd change, Xbox's install base isn't going to get smaller.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

What's more, though people talk about Xbox being left in the dust, what we've got here is a developer prepared to spend months of additional development time to get the game out on Xbox. Seems like they think it's worth doing, again, not sure why that'd change, Xbox's install base isn't going to get smaller.

Xbox install base is not getting smaller by sheer numbers, but it is getting smaller by market share. Xbox is being kicked out of UK, it used to be 50/50 split there.

Worse, hardware requirements will only go UP. Unless you think next gen is coming soon, Series S would have to stay relevant for 3 years or more. I seriously doubt it. I had to upgrade my PC's ram just to run Diablo 2 remastered. Series S having 8 GB of ram using to be enough, but future is coming.

 

[Fuz]

It's kinda funny, thinking back, that people here were saying that XseX was more powerful than the PS5, not taking into account the S.

 

[Slicker than your average]

According to some here they've being paid by Sony to get it to work.
So are these really engineers MS is sending over, or some guys with bags of cash.

 

[Fuz]

I wonder if this will trickle down on PC too, so maybe it will also run better on my old potato PC.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Apparently the game runs on Steam Deck. But it supposedly cannot run on Series S? That's funny to hear.

There's no parity clause with the Steam Deck.

Thats the main thing that's blocking it IMO.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Apparently the game runs on Steam Deck. But it supposedly cannot run on Series S? That's funny to hear.

Sony is clearly paying Larian off.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

Xbox install base is not getting smaller by sheer numbers, but it is getting smaller by market share. Xbox is being kicked out of UK, it used to be 50/50 split there

The point is that millions of sales are millions of sales. It's worth making games available when you can get millions of sales.

Worse, hardware requirements will only go UP. Unless you think next gen is coming soon, Series S would have to stay relevant for 3 years or more.

Lol, as if things are going to change significantly. No matter how big a problem people try to paint Baldur's Gate's split screen woes as emblematic of Series S being a problem, it just doesn't work that way when the vast majority of games release on Series S without problem.

So much hand wringing over a system that plays 99.99999% of games with no problem.

 

[Goalus]

The Steam Deck version didn't have split screen enabled. They were willing to do the same for Series S but XBOX SAID NO.

There's no parity clause with the Steam Deck.

Thats the main thing that's blocking it IMO.

OK, that makes sense indeed.

 

[Ar¢tos]

The point is that millions of sales are millions of sales. It's worth making games available when you can get millions of sales.

Lol, as if things are going to change significantly. No matter how big a problem people try to paint Baldur's Gate's split screen woes as emblematic of Series S being a problem, it just doesn't work that way when the vast majority of games release on Series S without problem.

So much hand wringing over a system that plays 99.99999% of games with no problem.

As long as features are dropped to accommodate it and games are nerfed from the start to include it.

Wasn't Halo split screen canceled despite working on the One X?

 

[MasterCornholio]

OK, that makes sense indeed.

Can the XSS run this game?

Yes it can.

Can it run it with split screen at an acceptable level?

No it can't.

This would be an issue if feature parity wasn't a policy that Microsoft enforces.

That's really it.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

As long as features are dropped to accommodate it and games are nerfed from the start to include it.

Wasn't Halo split screen canceled despite working on the One X?

So, it seems like split screen might be a problem. Given how few games are split screen now this is a tiny, tiny problem.

From the way it's spoken about here, you would think it would mean that Xbox will receive no multiplatform support.

It's just not a big deal.

 

[Ar¢tos]

So, it seems like split screen might be a problem. Given how few games are split screen now this is a tiny, tiny problem.

From the way it's spoken about here, you would think it would mean that Xbox will receive no multiplatform support.

It's just not a big deal.

This is the only problem that we are aware of, doesn't mean it is the only problem that exists.
How many games exist that had features removed/design changed from the XSX/PS5 versions that we don't know of?
We have no idea of the true dimension of the issue.

 

[Rickyiez]

They can't. Ms forces feature parity.

Then disable coop for Series X too?

It seems like the real issue is from Microsoft, their gaming department is by lead by corporate idiots, which we have already known

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

So, it seems like split screen might be a problem. Given how few games are split screen now this is a tiny, tiny problem.

From the way it's spoken about here, you would think it would mean that Xbox will receive no multiplatform support.

It's just not a big deal.

The split screen needed more than 8gb of ram. The split screen is not the problem, the ram is.
If you think future games would never need more than 8GB of ram for the next 3 years, you have another thing coming. Series S only lasted this long because of the cross-gen grace period. That is now over.

 

[LordCBH]

MS engineers should have worked with 343 to get their promised splitscreen campaign mode working in Infinite.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

This is the only problem that we are aware of, doesn't mean it is the only problem that exists.
How many games exist that had features removed/design changed from the XSX/PS5 versions that we don't know of?
We have no idea of the true dimension of the issue.

So keep on reaching? Keep trying to create a narrative? How much time should be dedicated to condemning a console that on the evidence we have - that it plays 99.9% of games - has a problem with a couple of games with split screen modes?

Seems a weird, very agenda driven way to go about things.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

The split screen needed more than 8gb of ram. The split screen is not the problem, the ram is.
If you think future games would never need more than 8GB of ram for the next 3 years, you have another thing coming. Series S only lasted this long because of the cross-gen grace period. That is now over.

I agree, look at all the PS5 games that are coming but aren't coming for Series S now that cross gen is over. Oh. Hang on, they are coming for Series S.

We can of course keep saying that there's a problem, or just look at the release schedule.

Edit: corrected a mistake where I said Series X instead of PS5.

 

[Ar¢tos]

So keep on reaching? Keep trying to create a narrative? How much time should be dedicated to condemning a console that on the evidence we have - that it plays 99.9% of games - has a problem with a couple of games with split screen modes?

Seems a weird, very agenda driven way to go about things.

I'm just saying we don't really know. It might be more than split screen, it might be just split screen circumstances, but we can't say for sure it is just split screen since we only know the things that are made public.

 

[FinalBossWithTheMostPower]

This would be the perfect opportunity for MS to make it work, stopping a lot of conversation, and well worth the money spent to do it.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

I'm just saying we don't really know. It might be more than split screen, it might be just split screen circumstances, but we can't say for sure it is just split screen since we only know the things that are made public.

I understand what you're saying, but the thirst for Series S to be causing either great harm to games or for it to be dropped by developers is obviously not supported by any evidence, and yet it gathers momentum every time it comes up around here. It's pure platform warring.

 

[twilo99]

I wonder if this will trickle down on PC too, so maybe it will also run better on my old potato PC.

That would be nice but it almost sounds like the xss will be getting its own version of the game?

 

[twilo99]

I understand what you're saying, but the thirst for Series S to be causing either great harm to games or for it to be dropped by developers is obviously not supported by any evidence, and yet it gathers momentum every time it comes up around here. It's pure platform warring.

This has been the case from the very beginning. For whatever reason it’s a huge nuisance for a lot of people, as if having nice things at an affordable price is simply not allowed. I find the whole situation really bizarre.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

This would be the perfect opportunity for MS to make it work, stopping a lot of conversation, and well worth the money spent to do it.

It'll be interesting to see what happens, given that BG3's Devs have commented publicly, I would think that for Microsoft the pressure is likely on. If they can't get it done, things could get quite interesting - they either amend their policies and smear the Series S brand or they refuse to release it on Series X, which effectively has the same effect.

I wonder actually how bothered Microsoft are, and how resigned they are. On paper, it's one game from a list of thousands that are in development. If you're managing developer support do you have people on standby for this? I would have thought sending Microsoft's programmers to assist is probably less hands on that some might imagine, and the reality might not be an A-team of crack programmers showing up in a black minivan and and sunglasses and more "uh, could you send your debug code reports over and we'll see if there's anything weird we can spot".

 

[Topher]

I understand what you're saying, but the thirst for Series S to be causing either great harm to games or for it to be dropped by developers is obviously not supported by any evidence, and yet it gathers momentum every time it comes up around here. It's pure platform warring.

What do you mean there is no evidence? BG 3 not being on Xbox at launch is evidence. Developers stating that they want the requirement to support XSS dropped is evidence.

 

[Ar¢tos]

I understand what you're saying, but the thirst for Series S to be causing either great harm to games or for it to be dropped by developers is obviously not supported by any evidence, and yet it gathers momentum every time it comes up around here. It's pure platform warring.

I'm planning on getting a XSS later for Fable, in general this doesn't affect me, but the biggest issue for me is the downplaying by the community, instead of accepting things for what they are. "it's only split screen games, nobody plays those!" or "it's a once in a lifetime event, it will never happen again!"

We have absolutely no guarantee that sometime in the future, some studio plans a massive and very complex boss fight and then because they either can't make it work on the XSS or because they can't afford to spend the extra time and resources to optimize it for the XSS they end up simplifying it or removing it from ALL versions of the game, affecting everyone, not just XSS owners.

 

[Fuz]

That would be nice but it almost sounds like the xss will be getting its own version of the game?

It doesn't. The engineers are helping squeeze every last bit from the S while still maintaining parity.
There is no way Microsoft will allow an inferior version, it would be a massive hit for their credibility.

 

[Ar¢tos]

It doesn't. The engineers are helping squeeze every last bit from the S while still maintaining parity.
There is no way Microsoft will allow an inferior version, it would be a massive hit for their credibility.

Isn't not having any version at all, like it is right now, much worse than that?

 

[FinalBossWithTheMostPower]

Edit

 

[FinalBossWithTheMostPower]

It'll be interesting to see what happens, given that BG3's Devs have commented publicly, I would think that for Microsoft the pressure is likely on. If they can't get it done, things could get quite interesting - they either amend their policies and smear the Series S brand or they refuse to release it on Series X, which effectively has the same effect.

I wonder actually how bothered Microsoft are, and how resigned they are. On paper, it's one game from a list of thousands that are in development. If you're managing developer support do you have people on standby for this? I would have thought sending Microsoft's programmers to assist is probably less hands on that some might imagine, and the reality might not be an A-team of crack programmers showing up in black minivan and and sunglasses and more "uh, could you send your debug code reports over and we'll see if there's anything weird we can spot".

In almost all other cases, it's highly likely to be the latter.

However, the challenge Microsoft faces is timing. Starfield is on the horizon plus the current prominence of this problem forces attention, providing gamers with a valid incentive to opt for an alternative place to play a major game like BG3.

If Microsoft doesn't take action to accelerate the solution, it places a strong emphasis on the constraints of the S.

 

[Fess]

Can’t they just have an info box explaining what you get with each version on the store page that says split-screen isn’t available yet on Series S but it’ll get that with an update later?
I don’t understand the feature parity thing. The Series S version is always inferior anyway in all games.

 

[twilo99]

Can’t they just have an info box explaining what you get with each version on the store page that says split-screen isn’t available yet on Series S but it’ll get that with an update later?
I don’t understand the feature parity thing. The Series S version is always inferior anyway in all games.

That would be the best solution, ms are being silly