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[Beer Monkey]

I must admit that i have only been a member for a few months and i have already noticed that the forum on a whole seems to be very pro Sony and anti Microsoft, even when Microsoft have some good news, people seem to try to twist it into a negative, you don't get that with Sony from what i have seen.

This is my opinion and it could be wrong, but my impression has always been that the console gaming community on the internet (and this coming from someone who was a regular on #vidgames on IRC around 17 years ago and who also posted in rec.games.video.* in that mid 90s era) is very pro-Eastern and anti-Western.

Translation: FPS games belong on the PC, JRPG is godly, and if it didn't launch in Akihabara it isn't worth shit. This bias still remains, in my estimation, but the Xbox gamers will always be relative newcomers and Microsoft platforms will always be viewed with a suspect eye no matter how much more support they have than, say, the Atari Lynx or 3DO did.

 

[SapientWolf]

They didn't explicitly say that someone with no internet connection at all can have the full functionality of the console. I'll remain skeptical until I hear that. The context seems to suggest something like a limited offline mode.

 

[Reiko]

This is my opinion and it could be wrong, but my impression has always been that the console gaming community on the internet (and this coming from someone who was a regular on #vidgames on IRC around 17 years ago and who also posted in rec.games.video.* in that mid 90s era) is very pro-Eastern and anti-Western.

Translation: FPS games belong on the PC, JRPG is godly, and if it didn't launch in Akihabara it isn't worth shit. This bias still remains, in my estimation, but the Xbox gamers will always be relative newcomers and Microsoft platforms will always be viewed with a suspect eye no matter how much more support they have than, say, the Atari Lynx or 3DO did.

Here's an example of current next gen console negativity.

I'll go from worst to least.

Microsoft>>>>Nintendo>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sony.


After E3, it could certainly change on GAF.

 

[Winterfang]

I can't say this forum is Pro-Sony because of the Vita Treatment. However there is a strong anti-Xbox sentiment, but they are not without their reasons.

That being said, the blatant trolling is getting old, no every topic needs to be about paying for Gold.

 

[Reiko]

I can't say this forum is Pro-Sony because of the Vita Treatment. However there is a strong anti-Xbox sentiment, but they are not without their reasons.

That being said, the blatant trolling is getting old, no every topic needs to be about paying for Gold.

Within SonyGAF

I would say PS3 and PS4 are more loved over VITA for obvious reasons.

 

[Izick]

The Vita is like the little brother everybody picks on but really wants to succeed deep down.

 

[ChosenPredator]

I can't say this forum is Pro-Sony because of the Vita Treatment. However there is a strong anti-Xbox sentiment, but they are not without their reasons.

That being said, the blatant trolling is getting old, no every topic needs to be about paying for Gold.

minus vita - Sony is reception is really positive here within every thread regarding nintendo or microsoft there is always recycled jokes/gifs/pics being used you barely ever see this in a sony thread and if you do it's usually Kaz riding a horse smiling in joy. lol

 

[DenogginizerOS]

In the 21st, I trust.

 

[Izick]

minus vita - Sony is reception is really positive here within every thread regarding nintendo or microsoft there is always recycled jokes/gifs/pics being used you barely ever see this in a sony thread and if you do it's usually Kaz riding a horse smiling in joy. lol

I think a lot of people just dislike Microsoft because they believe that Microsoft doesn't cater to them as much as Sony does. They might be right in that regard (everyone has different tastes) but then that usually devolves into people twisting facts, figures, and creating negative narratives about Microsoft. It doesn't help that Microsoft is such a monolithic company either.

I don't really care most of the time, but when people shit up threads like the next Xbox unveil thread (where people want to talk about the next Xbox) then I kind of get annoyed and reply. The truth is that as interesting as forums are, they're just a very small minority of the whole picture. A lot of people want a lot of things. If a lot of people want CoD, then it means they're not tired of it yet. If a lot of people want better stuff from Live, then that's what MS is going to focus on. If people still are willing to buy Gold to play MP, for whatever reason, MS is going to charge for gold. Business decisions can't just be made on what a small niche group of people want alone.

But if that group isn't as niche as people think, and people don't want to pay for stuff like Gold, then Sony will be there to swoop in and get people to buy PS4 and PS4 games. I just think people like to jump to conclusions before they get the whole picture.

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

They didn't explicitly say that someone with no internet connection at all can have the full functionality of the console. I'll remain skeptical until I hear that. The context seems to suggest something like a limited offline mode.

Impossible. You don't have full functionality of a PS3 or 360 without an internet connection.

 

[Palette Swap]

Pretty good news if it's true. Everybody wins compared to the previously rumored scenario half the industry seemed to believe. This makes Xbox viable once again and doesn't create a precedent.

 

[Baconsammy]

They didn't explicitly say that someone with no internet connection at all can have the full functionality of the console. I'll remain skeptical until I hear that. The context seems to suggest something like a limited offline mode.

They would never say that since it would be impossible to have full functionality of a console without an internet connection.

 

[Izick]

I'm really curious to see how much they use Kinect 2.0 for Live/UI stuff vs. games. I want to see some of both, but the stuff that interests me the most is Skype, UI interaction, etc.

 

[Courage]

I'm really curious to see how much they use Kinect 2.0 for Live/UI stuff vs. games. I want to see some of both, but the stuff that interests me the most is Skype, UI interaction, etc.

Same here. What we've seen from games so far with Kinect is limited, but the UI navigation and voice control has been outstanding.

 

[Izick]

Same here. What we've seen from games so far with Kinect is limited, but the UI navigation and voice control has been outstanding.

I'm also curious to see how it's integrated and/or form factor; I was watching This Week in Tech and one of the guests was talking about this Kinect-like device that he saw which was about the size of a stick of gum, and way more accurate than Kinect. He also said it was about 100$ worth of parts.

Not sure how recent it was when he saw that, but thinking about the improvements that Microsoft has made to thing is intriguing to say the very least. I'm curious if it will be in the box (I never really believed this rumor though) or attached via cable again, the size of it, how much space it needs, how accurate it is compared to the original etc.

 

[Gestault]

I'm pretty sure the dude is a joke poster. He once made the argument that BC is earned through dedication rather than being a technological limitation.

Found that comment for you. I won't lie, trudging through that comment history? Kind of painful.

And yeah, he totally talks about how people who want backwards compatibility as a feature who didn't own the previous system don't deserve it. He was talking in terms of theoreticals, but it's still a super bizarre perspective.

 

[Izick]

That's...strange.



Anyway, I wonder how they'll integrate the whole cable box thing into it? Will they just use your provider's info to stream stuff through the internet connection or what?

 

[Iced_Eagle]

I'm also curious to see how it's integrated and/or form factor; I was watching This Week in Tech and one of the guests was talking about this Kinect-like device that he saw which was about the size of a stick of gum, and way more accurate than Kinect. He also said it was about 100$ worth of parts.

Not sure how recent it was when he saw that, but thinking about the improvements that Microsoft has made to thing is intriguing to say the very least. I'm curious if it will be in the box (I never really believed this rumor though) or attached via cable again, the size of it, how much space it needs, how accurate it is compared to the original etc.

The Leap? Not even comparable to Kinect. It only tracks hands, not skeletons. It also only works in a volume of like 3 ft^3 instead of the size of a living room. It also has its own set of limitations in what it can track.

 

[Takuya]

Found that comment for you. I won't lie, trudging through that comment history? Kind of painful.

And yeah, he totally talks about how people who want backwards compatibility as a feature who didn't own the previous system don't deserve it. He was talking in terms of theoreticals, but it's still a super bizarre perspective.

I'm pretty sure the dude is a joke poster. He once made the argument that BC is earned through dedication rather than being a technological limitation.

Yep, don't see how I made the argument that it was earned through dedication or it not being a technological limitation there. Thanks for backing me up

 

[Izick]

The Leap? Not even comparable to Kinect. It only tracks hands, not skeletons. It also only works in a volume of like 3 ft^3 instead of the size of a living room. It also has its own set of limitations in what it can track.

I'm not sure. This is just what one of the guests on TWiT said. I can't vouch for how accurate he is, but that's what he said. I was just saying that in general it will be interesting to see how much of an advancement 2.0 is over the original in all aspects.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Found that comment for you. I won't lie, trudging through that comment history? Kind of painful.

And yeah, he totally talks about how people who want backwards compatibility as a feature who didn't own the previous system don't deserve it. He was talking in terms of theoreticals, but it's still a super bizarre perspective.

Heh.

People with current gen consoles wanting BC in the next: Understandable, have supported the company/platform, would be great if the manufacturer included BC for these people

People without current gen consoles wanting BC in the next: I don't get this. You didn't support the company/platform, why would they feel the need to serve you when you've had years to buy their platform and enjoy their content? The option would be a privilege/gift to these users who in no way deserve it.

I chuckled heartily at BC being a gift.

 

[Takuya]

I chuckled heartily at BC being a gift.

What is it other than a convenience/gift offered by the manufacturer? To its new platform, it serves nothing but to add cost and architectural headaches.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

I must admit that i have only been a member for a few months and i have already noticed that the forum on a whole seems to be very pro Sony and anti Microsoft, even when Microsoft have some good news, people seem to try to twist it into a negative, you don't get that with Sony from what i have seen.

It's probably that you're only familiar with the post-February PS4 presentation atmosphere where things have gone south for MS and next-gen XBOX merely on the basis of no conference for the next system in addition to nothing but rumors that have no bounds with no confirmation thanks to no show from MS. After the 21st and E3 has started with all conferences done and many more details revealed, I think things will return to more evenly matched perspective on next-gen.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

What is it other than a convenience/gift offered by the manufacturer? To its new platform, it serves nothing but to add cost and architectural headaches.

BC helps ease minds about current gen purchases, rewards past customers with persistent ownership over their e-goods, and smoothes the transition by helping people migrate over rather than switch tracks to another platform. Most people don't hang onto older consoles when they trade in, sell, and give away those old units. If you doubt that, then you don't understand how the secondhand market exists in the first place. GAF might keep onto old stuff, but GAF is all about gaming nerds.

 

[Gestault]

Yep, don't see how I made the argument that it was earned through dedication or it not being a technological limitation there.

I can understand how it would have come off that way though, when you were arguing the viewpoint that consumers that hadn't supported the last platform don't deserve BC, and that was why no BC in PS4 was justified. Pretending that you never said anything to this effect in the first place when it was brought up strikes me as pretty disingenuous. If you really cared about clarifying, you would have quoted it yourself pages ago and just been like "this was what I meant."

 

[Takuya]

BC helps ease minds about current gen purchases, rewards past customers with persistent ownership over their e-goods, and smoothes the transition by helping people migrate over rather than switch tracks to another platform. Most people don't hang onto older consoles when they trade in, sell, and give away those old units. If you doubt that, then you don't understand how the secondhand market exists in the first place. GAF might keep onto old stuff, but GAF is all about gaming nerds.

So... Convenience? Just as I said.

I can understand how it would have come off that way though, when you were arguing the viewpoint that consumers that hadn't supported the last platform don't deserve BC, and that was why no BC in PS4 was justified.

It was a response to all those who felt entitled to BC, as if it were a feature that had to be in for sure, no matter what the circumstance.

 

[quickwhips]

What is it other than a convenience/gift offered by the manufacturer? To its new platform, it serves nothing but to add cost and architectural headaches.

Your starting to grow on me. Its so scary.

 

[itsgreen]

So... Convenience? Just as I said.

It's added value.

Just like every aspect of the console is added value.

 

[statham]

I like Takuya.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

So... Convenience? Just as I said.

Eh, the manufacturers aren't walking away losing money on it, so you can't possibly call it a gift or boil it down to pure convenience. It's about consumer confidence, too, and that gets people buying console units and games, especially the early adopter. They only spend all those hundreds of millions every generation to convince us that their product is the one worth designating as worthwhile money hole. In an Apple/Android/Windows-dominated world where we expect legacy support as core to the product value, it's practically a necessity for maintaining continuity between platforms and keeping consumers.

 

[Gestault]

It's added value.

Just like every aspect of the console is added value.

It's a feature. Calling it a "convenience" and acting like consumers aren't worthy of it unless they earn it, as Takuya has, comes off as bizarre to me.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

What is it other than a convenience/gift offered by the manufacturer? To its new platform, it serves nothing but to add cost and architectural headaches.

Chill dude, I was just busting your balls. I tend to agree with you, but I do believe that having BC encourages people to purchase past titles on a console they might otherwise not have bought. It's a relatively small niche though.

Plus BC is pretty important in maintaining consumer confidence and faith in digital marketplaces.

 

[Takuya]

Eh, the manufacturers aren't walking away losing money on it, so you can't possibly call it a gift or boil it down to pure convenience. It's about consumer confidence, too, and that gets people buying console units and games, especially the early adopter. They only spend all those hundreds of millions every generation to convince us that their product is the one worth designating as worthwhile money hole.

(Know it's off-topic since this is an MS thread but..) It was pretty clear that with the switch from PPC to x86, all or most of the PS3 library wouldn't work on PS4 without dedicated hardware. This would obviously add a significant cost to the machine, and r&d time for the platform architecture team. Yet, all those who yelled and screamed about being entitled to BC, and that it should be a feature of the next platform. I wrote that reply to those who were so up in arms about their entitlement to this feature. Also, from what Sony said at their PSMeeting in February, we're lead to believe that the direction they took in going x86_64 is going to help BC in future revisions.

 

[Gestault]

It was a response to all those who felt entitled to BC, as if it were a feature that had to be in for sure, no matter what the circumstance.

So if you don't want to sound like a crazy person, don't say "you don't get it because you don't deserve it," just say "hey, the tech framework is different and it isn't feasible." That was precisely what you were accused of saying in the first place, and pretended you didn't know what he was talking about.

 

[statham]

They should come out with a PS3 mini for $99

 

[Hindle]

Backwards compatibility would be a huge gain for MS with thier next console. Tens of thousands devoutly play Halo 3, GTA 4 to this day. Not to mention GTA V is just around the corner, I fully expect that will become the most played game on Live. Durango not having backwards compatibility means those gamers will just stay with the 360.

Edit. Millions of people will be playing GTA V on the 360. No way MS cut those people out of possibly buying the Durango.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Backwards compatibility would be a huge gain for MS with thier next console. Tens of thousands devoutly play Halo 3, GTA 4 to this day. Not to mention GTA V is just around the corner, I fully expect that will become the most played game on Live. Durango not having backwards compatibility means those gamers will just stay with the 360.

I still feel they'll announce a cross generation release at some point, probably after it's released on current consoles.

 

[Bgamer90]

I think that a BC option would be pretty big just due to Minecraft alone.

You would have older gamers (that never had a 360) getting the Next Xbox and then getting Minecraft for their kids to play.

 

[Baconsammy]

Chill dude, I was just busting your balls. I tend to agree with you, but I do believe that having BC encourages people to purchase past titles on a console they might otherwise not have bought. It's a relatively small niche though.

Plus BC is pretty important in maintaining consumer confidence and faith in digital marketplaces.

BC is incredibly important at the start of a gen. If MS says there's BC, I'll start buying DLC/XBLA titles again. Sony's statement that there won't be any BC sealed their fate for me. No more purchases being made for the PS3.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

(Know it's off-topic since this is an MS thread but..) It was pretty clear that with the switch from PPC to x86, all or most of the PS3 library wouldn't work on PS4 without dedicated hardware. This would obviously add a significant cost to the machine, and r&d time for the platform architecture team. Yet, all those who yelled and screamed about being entitled to BC, and that it should be a feature of the next platform. I wrote that reply to those who were so up in arms about their entitlement to this feature. Also, from what Sony said at their PSMeeting in February, we're lead to believe that the direction they took in going x86_64 is going to help BC in future revisions.

This image below is how they were thinking of next-gen three years ago and they were already anticipating an architectural changeover yet planned for those PPC cores to be included for BC. They own the X360 chipset lock stock and barrel, so it will be as cheap as they can manage to shrink it, which should work out fine since their smallest process is always available in quantity in the latest X360 model. When they think about lopping off more costs for a more mainstream model of the next-gen, three years or so down the line, they can drop it from that model. Hell, there's nothing stopping them from choosing a ratio of BC-enabled to non-BC with the launch.

 

[Gestault]

BC is incredibly important at the start of a gen. If MS says there's BC, I'll start buying DLC/XBLA titles again. Sony's statement that there won't be any BC sealed their fate for me. No more purchases being made for the PS3.

If you're talking digital, I get you, but there are some potentially great retail releases that you'll miss out on...

 

[Miles Quaritch]

BC is incredibly important at the start of a gen. If MS says there's BC, I'll start buying DLC/XBLA titles again. Sony's statement that there won't be any BC sealed their fate for me. No more purchases being made for the PS3.

This is all too true. If my PS3 didn't have BC, I'd have gone mad due to the long droughts.

I'd like BC, but I've come to terms with it not being technical feasible due to change in architecture.

 

[ChosenPredator]

I really wanted to get all the amazing games for ps3 that are coming out and the only time i can play it is if my bro lets me borrow it, I just can't buy one right now because I want to get ps4/720 - I wish I could buy ps3 games and just save them to play on ps4 that would be ideal for me but otherwise i'll just use my bros for now.

 

[Baconsammy]

If you're talking digital, I get you, but there are some potentially great retail releases that you'll miss out on...

Redbox works fine for me. They've been getting all the big titles this year.

 

[Haunted]

That's good!

 

[Gestault]

Redbox works fine for me. They've been getting all the big titles this year.

Oooh, gotcha gotcha. It sounded like you were just jumping out. That's probably smarter than my pattern of purchases, lol

 

[googleplex]

minus vita - Sony is reception is really positive here within every thread regarding nintendo or microsoft there is always recycled jokes/gifs/pics being used you barely ever see this in a sony thread and if you do it's usually Kaz riding a horse smiling in joy. lol

You obviously wasn't on the internet prior the 2 years ago. Sony was pretty badly kicked around on GAF and the Internet in general for the first 3 years after the PS4's launch. So much so it seemed to me that game's were being scored lower just do to the platform it was on. It's only been within the last few years that Sony had been able to turn public perception on the PS3 and by extension PS4.

 

[googleplex]

They should come out with a PS3 mini for $99

II still think that a PS3 Backwards compatibility add on for the PS4 is possible.

 

[Takuya]

II still think that a PS3 Backwards compatibility add on for the PS4 is possible.

Sony has a patent for such a device for PS3

 

[Gestault]

You obviously wasn't on the internet prior the 2 years ago. Sony was pretty badly kicked around on GAF and the Internet in general for the first 3 years after the PS3's launch. So much so it seemed to me that game's were being scored lower just do to the platform it was on. It's only been within the last few years that Sony had been able to turn public perception on the PS3 and by extension PS4.

(Changed 4 to 3)

To be fair, I think in any case I can think of where a PS3 version got a lower score, it was a worse version of the same game. "Being critical of the PS3" is not the same thing as "being unfairly critical of PS3." I don't know that you fall into this category, but there seems to be an irrational persecution complex among Sony enthusiasts on Gaf, and there are a lot of them, and it universally takes the form of lashing out at other gaming products in a way we don't necessarily see as boldly and commonly with enthusiasts of the other companies. Yes, this is a generalization, but I can't see it being unfair, based on my own observations.

The blow-up style reactions to the good news about Microsoft's internal statement clarifying that "always online" referred to is not at all out of character. Jokes about the Sony Defense Force didn't appear out of nowhere.

Interested in a time capsule? Please be my guest.