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[fortified_concept]

You're right, because taking into consideration what the market leader for 2 generations does is irrelevant as it will have no effect on 360 sales.

There's a huge difference between taking into consideration what the competition is doing and basing your success into wishful thinking that the competition will have major problems. And what's even worse is that these problems do not involve the quality of the console but the time it'll be released. Again delay>>>>>>>>>>>rushed hardware.

 

[krypt0nian]

There's a huge difference between taking into consideration what the competition is doing and basing your success into wishful thinking that the competition will have major problems. And what's even worse is that these problems do not involve the quality of the console but the time it'll be released. Again delay>>>>>>>>>>>rushed hardware.

Do you even know what PR is?

 

[fortified_concept]

Do you even know what PR is?

Yeap. Do you know what badly planned PR is?

I really don't know what MS is trying to achieve by doing this. It's like they're so afraid of PS3 that they're wishing it to be delayed. That's some really bad PR right there, cos the only thing I get from it is MS's fear.

 

[Blackie{BA}]

so if sony will do a "paper launch" as they have done before with ps2, who will be surprised?

 

[Ixarulean]

I agree that the PS2 launch was not as well planned, but then again, it still dominated in 2000 as the must-have item for the holiday season and probably would have been supersonic if it had a killer app like MGS2 at launch. I hate to think what the demand would have been if it had a title the caliber of MGS or Final Fantasy at launch.

Yes, I agree with this, and I also think that this is what Sony needs when they launch the ps3. They need a MGS4 or something comparible right off the bat. The unanswerable question I have at this point is whether they have enough time to do this without delaying the system 2 holidays in a row somewhere.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

Yes, I agree with this, and I also think that this is what Sony needs when they launch the ps3. They need a MGS4 or something comparible right off the bat. The unanswerable question I have at this point is whether they have enough time to do this without delaying the system 2 holidays in a row somewhere.

I would LOVE to see MGS4 at launch even if it pushes PS3 to late 2006 or 2007 here in the US. I have already planned on getting a PS3 at launch, but I want MGS4, damnit. That would certainly be explosive for Sony.

 

[Timedog]

There's a huge difference between taking into consideration what the competition is doing and basing your success into wishful thinking that the competition will have major problems. And what's even worse is that these problems do not involve the quality of the console but the time it'll be released. Again delay>>>>>>>>>>>rushed hardware.

Did you even read it? Where are they basing their success on the fact that their competition will have problems??? Who's the one doing the wishful thinking here, duder?

 

[krypt0nian]

Yeap. Do you know what badly planned PR is?

I really don't know what MS is trying to achieve by doing this. It's like they're so afraid of PS3 that they're wishing it to be delayed. That's some really bad PR right there, cos the only thing I get from it is MS's fear.

Not badly planned at all. SONY wan't potential 360 buyers to wait til PS3 hits by saying it will ship in SPRING.

MS wants potential waiters to think that the PS3 launches in the AUTUMN.

Again do you know what PR is?

I would LOVE to see MGS4 at launch even if it pushes PS3 to late 2006 or 2007 here in the US. I have already planned on getting a PS3 at launch, but I want MGS4, damnit. That would certainly be explosive for Sony.

If SONY waited until MGS4 was ready the 360 lead in numbers would be insane.

 

[ThirdEye]

The latest videos were quite smooth framerate wise.

Which video?

 

[DenogginizerOS]

If SONY waited until MGS4 was ready the 360 lead in numbers would be insane.

I agree. I could care less about how the 3 systems bang each other around and when they come out. But if Kojima pulled off MGS4 as a launch title for a US/Japan 2006 launch, that would be many a gamer's dream come true.

 

[IJoel]

Which video?

Look for TGS or X05 videos.

 

[fortified_concept]

Did you even read what it? Where are they basing their success on the fact that their competition will have problems??? Who's the one doing the wishful thinking here, duder?

Yes I did.

First they mention that PS3 will be delayed:

An increasingly ebullient Microsoft is privately confident that PlayStation 3 will slip from its vaguely mooted "spring 2006" launch, with some suggestions that, at least in Europe, Sony's machine may not arrive until 2007.

Then repeat it so that they make sure that the gods will hear them and grand their wishes:

Sony has been tight-lipped about its plans for PlayStation 3, confirming no launch schedule apart from "spring 2006". Many pundits believe the company's best case scenario is for a spring launch in Japan followed by North America later in the year, as well as Europe at around the same time.

And then they add the uber-confident PR comment like the first two paragraphs never existed, which is followed by his conviction that it'll be delayed which doesn't add up well with his first sentence that he'll be happy to compete whenever it launches.

Then they continue with their wishful thinking that PS3 will be delayed. If this is not wishful thinking I really don't know what is.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

If this is not wishful thinking I really don't know what is.

Sony thinking that the gaming world would accept the e3 2005 footage as gameplay footage would be wishful IMO.

 

[PhatSaqs]

Yes I did.

First they mention that PS3 will be delayed:



Then repeat it so that they make sure that the gods will hear them and grand their wishes:



And then they add the uber-confident PR comment like the first two paragraphs never existed, which is followed by his conviction that it'll be delayed which doesn't add up well with his first sentence that he'll be happy to compete whenever it launches.

Then they continue with their wishful thinking that PS3 will be delayed. If this is not wishful thinking I really don't know what is.

You're way off base here. This an article about internal comments made by MS. Not an MS PR.

 

[krypt0nian]

Yes I did.

First they mention that PS3 will be delayed:



Then repeat it so that they make sure that the gods will hear them and grand their wishes:



And then they add the uber-confident PR comment like the first two paragraphs never existed, which is followed by his conviction that it'll be delayed which doesn't add up well with his first sentence that he'll be happy to compete whenever it launches.

Then they continue with their wishful thinking that PS3 will be delayed. If this is not wishful thinking I really don't know what is.

Again -

SONY wants potential 360 buyers to wait til PS3 hits by saying it will ship in SPRING.

MS wants potential waiters to think that the PS3 launches in the AUTUMN.

There is no difference here. You and your "wishful thinking" angle is just readhing. PR isn't meant to show a companies inner beliefs, just where they want public opinion to travel to.

 

[Razoric]

The PS3 doesnt even have vents yet, no way in hell it's launching in the spring.

 

[fortified_concept]

Not badly planned at all. SONY wan't potential 360 buyers to wait til PS3 hits by saying it will ship in SPRING.

MS wants potential waiters to think that the PS3 launches in the AUTUMN.

Again do you know what PR is?

Again yes I do. I understand what you're saying, but don't they concurrently seem way too desperate and afraid of Sony by doing this?

 

[Cosmozone]

I didn't read all the messages in this thread, but I've got the feeling that there are many biased opinions here. In terms of power and graphical superiority, however, I think PS3 will have a much longer breath than Xbox360. I'll probably get a PS3 sooner or later. Well, more later than sooner. Right now, I'm aiming for late 2008.

I wonder if MS will push next-next generation early. Is it true, that MS was the first to push next-generation? I'm not sure, Sony was PRing the Cell early as well. To me, next-gen is coming perhaps a little too rushed. There are good reasons to wait a little longer, 65nm, wider HDTV acceptance, established next-gen DVD format(s), etc. But I understand that at least Sony wants to push it's HDTV sets and Blu-Ray-Disks using the PS3.

As for Microsofts comment on a possible PS3 delay, not a good move IMHO. Makes them look weak.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

As for Microsofts comment on a possible PS3 delay, not a good move IMHO. Makes them look weak.

Not if you are an XBOT :lol

 

[Raven.]

When we see Halo 3, NG 2, Forza 2 and other games written on final hardware and it looks inferior to PS3 games, then you have a case. But I'm not buying Sony's BS presentation and I'm not buying the fact that PS3 is vastly superior to Xbox 360 based on comparisons to PS3 tech demos compared to X800 engines running on final Xbox 360s. When we have apples next to apples, then we can start making sweeping comments, but I think the "We know PS3 games will look better" comments were both ignorant and premature.

I'll wait and see also. But right now practically every next-gen looking x360 title has been running at 30fps, suggested could end up running at 30fps, or even blatantly defended as being 30fps and being a good thing(aka, you won't notice, we'll add more stuff, etc, etc, etc.). That doesn't inspire me much hope.

On ps3 we've the FFVII demo running at a solid 60fps on non-final h/w. Mgs3 which I've heard was at 60fps, but need confirm. And several impressive titles that are aiming at 60fps(Heavenly Sword, GT5), etc.

The latest videos were quite smooth framerate wise. You also have to remember that this game won't be out until the Q3-Q4 of next year, so it still has a good 9 or so months work.

Yet UE3 was quickly ported and running smooth like butter at a solid 60fps on non-final ps3 dev kits, IIRC. While we're already getting 30fps PR/DMG-control for GoW.

 

[Timedog]

Yes I did.

First they mention that PS3 will be delayed:

Then repeat it so that they make sure that the gods will hear them and grand their wishes:

And then they add the uber-confident PR comment like the first two paragraphs never existed, which is followed by his conviction that it'll be delayed which doesn't add up well with his first sentence that he'll be happy to compete whenever it launches.

Then they continue with their wishful thinking that PS3 will be delayed. If this is not wishful thinking I really don't know what is.

You keep saying "they". You do realize that microsoft didn't write this, right? Colin Campbell of the website www.next-gen.biz did, do you get that? Microsoft provided the quotes, NOT THE LAYOUT/WORDING OF THE ARTICLE. :lol :lol

Wishful thinking implies that it is not based on factual information. Microsoft could easily have some general idea of how software and hardware are going along. Unless you are in the upper echelon of the microsoft ranks, and know all the info that they do than get a fucking clue and stop trolling. And learn reading comprehension while you're at it.

 

[urk]

Yet UE3 was quickly ported and running smooth like butter at a solid 60fps on non-final ps3 dev kits, IIRC. While we're already getting 30fps PR/DMG-control for GoW.

You seem to forget that in one instance you have a development team working on making a game and the other where a short demo is being ran. In the case of a game, fine tuning happens at the last stages.

 

[Timedog]

Yet UE3 was quickly ported and running smooth like butter at a solid 60fps on non-final ps3 dev kits, IIRC. While we're already getting 30fps PR/DMG-control for GoW.

Engines don't run at 60 FPS, games do. I fail to remember GoW being ported to the PS3 dev kit and running at 60 FPS.

 

[WHOAguitarninja]

Engines don't run at 60 FPS, games do. I fail to remember GoW being ported to the PS3 dev kit and running at 60 FPS.

Not to mention GoW has FAR more going on in it than that short demo did.

 

[IJoel]

Yet UE3 was quickly ported and running smooth like butter at a solid 60fps on non-final ps3 dev kits, IIRC. While we're already getting 30fps PR/DMG-control for GoW.

Uhh... as someone mentioned, engines don't really run at a framerate, games or demos do. What you saw was a fairly simple demo of UE3 running on a PS3 development kit.

Also, Epic has no intentions of trying to achieve 60 fps for GoW. They've already stated that they want to cram as much detail and effects as possible with a 30 fps target. So it's not PR/DMG control as you are trying to make it seem.

 

[fortified_concept]

You keep saying "they". You do realize that microsoft didn't write this, right? Colin Campbell of the website www.next-gen.biz did, do you get that? Microsoft provided the quotes, NOT THE LAYOUT/WORDING OF THE ARTICLE. :lol :lol

Wishful thinking implies that it is not based on factual information. Microsoft could easily have some general idea of how software and hardware are going along. Unless you are in the upper echelon of the microsoft ranks, and know all the info that they do than get a fucking clue and stop trolling. And learn reading comprehension while you're at it.

Although I admit my mistake (in my defense that article really looked like MS PR) my comments still stand since this doesn't change ANYTHING. The quotes the article is based on still make MS look desperate and afraid of Sony.

And btw stop with the trolling accusations cos you're pissing me off. It's pathetic. Everytime someone doesn't like an argument or a person he starts accusing him of trolling. It's like the internet version of pre-1990 east germany in here.

 

[Timedog]

And btw stop with the trolling accusations cos you're pissing me off.

oooh scary! :lol

Everytime someone doesn't like an argument or a person he starts accusing him of trolling.

No, I think it's when someone does something like commenting on an article that they didn't actually read. :lol

anyways, lets move on with the actual discussion.

 

[fortified_concept]

oooh scary! :lol



No, I think it's when someone does something like commenting on an article that they didn't actually read. :lol

anyways, lets move on with the actual discussion.

Hehe, and you're accusing me of having reading comprehension problems? I read the article, I just thought it was MS PR. Got it?

And btw you're using smileys too much. They make your posts look bad.

 

[Amir0x]

Ugh. I feel bad for AmiRox. He just became an admin and now he has to read through all this crap to weed out idiocies.

Then again, I read through all of it and I can't even use that excuse. Guess I'm a masochist.

I'm watching how the long time mods/admins do this shit, to see at what point it is considered someone going over the line. 'Cause man, this thread is crazy bad at points

 

[KAOS]

Oh shit Sony has unleashed their G.A.P members upon this thread. Team Red and team Asphalt GO!

I could care less as to when the ps3 arrives as long as it delivers{hardware and software wise}. I don't won't to go through long months of playing Omega Boost, watching dvd's and playing cookies & cream like i did with the ps2.

 

[Timedog]

Hehe, and you're accusing me of having reading comprehension problems? I read the article, I just thought it was MS PR. Got it?

And btw you're using smileys too much. They make your posts look bad.

interesting analysis......





wait....




just a little longer.....



:lol

 

[maynerd]

Does anyone actually believe that MS has a chance of taking over first place in the next gen console war?

 

[DarienA]

Does anyone actually believe that MS has a chance of taking over first place in the next gen console war?

No.
Increasing their slice of the pie? Yes.

 

[sly]

No.
Increasing their slice of the pie? Yes.

If there are no major FUs I predict MS would have sold between 35 - 40 million Xbox 360 at the end of the gen.

 

[mrklaw]

'privately confident' from a Sony competitor suddenly = reasonable likelihood of a delay?

Jesus some people will jump on anything. I am constantly amazed by the strange lack of anyone belieiving the PS3 *could* come out in spring 2006. Maybe Ken Kutaragi keeps calling me up and telling me it'll be delayed, but somehow I keep missing the call?

 

[Sathsquatch]

I don't think that anyone can really tell if either the Xbox 360 or the PS3 is clearly the superior console. MGS4 sure does look impressive, but it is not clearly technically more impressive than PGR3. The most detailed car in PGR3 has 105,000 polys while Snake has 60,000. Car damage adds between 10,000 and 20,000 polys to cars, so a damaged car in PGR3 can have twice the polys of Snake (give or take 5,000). The X360 can also clearly do the polybump techniques used on Snake as those effects are in NBA 2k6.

Although there are more characters on screen at some points during the MGS 4 trailer, the enemy soldiers and vehicles are never all on screen with as the same time as Snake and there are at least six cars, thousands of spectators, and a huge city in PGR3. More importantly, PGR3 is an actual game in 2005 while the MGS4 trailer is a movie for a 2007 game (most likely).

A lot of X360 look bad, but that doesn't mean the console is weak. No one assumes that the PS3 is weak because the giant battle in Heavenly Sword only actually rendered at 5 FPS or because Fatal Inertia and Warhawk look terrible except for their water. Sony has been better at showing the strengths of their console while hiding their weaknesses, but we will know soon enough if their claims that the PS3 is twice as powerful as the X360 are real or just talk.

 

[Scottlarock]

I think this thread is doing exactly what microsoft wanted to do... no matter what side your on people are talking about the 360.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I think this thread is doing exactly what microsoft wanted to do... no matter what side your on people are talking about the 360.

They're also talking about the PS3. Wouldn't they prefer all the attention be on the 360 now given that its coming out soon?

 

[DreamMachine]

Becuase, I am sure next gen or who ever did the ariticle asked the question about ps3 and so they talked about it.

 

[Legal Step]

They'll fucking kill Sony, they did it before they'll do it again.

FUD + 1

 

[soundwave05]

I think PS3 will be out in North America in August/September 2006, right alongside the new Madden NFL. If they wait until October/November, that gives the XBox 360 an unneccessary 2-3 month exclusive on another season of Madden and a lot of football fans just can't wait that long. I'm guessing EA and Sony have already talked about this.

While Japan may still get the PS3 first, I think Sony, especailly Stringer understands the U.S. is going to be a tougher market, so they'll do everything to launch ASAP in North America. That's another reason why I tend to think August/September rather than October/November.

But still I think the overall market situation will shake down more or less the same as I thought months ago.

PS3-XBox 360 almost even in North America (ala the SNES-Genesis)

PS3 with a healthy lead in Europe, although MS makes some solid gains here

PS3 destroys X360 in Japan (obviously)

PS3: 95 million (PS2 finishes at about 120 million?)
XBox 360: 50 million (XBox finishes at about 25 million?)
Revolution: 35 million (GC finishes at about 23 million?)

Is more or less how I see it shaking down. Sony still wins big, mostly on the strength of Europe and Japan over MS, but I think their marketshare will go down. MS and Nintendo will both see healthy gains ... look for Nintendo's increases to be due to attracting new types of players.

 

[megateto]

Could anyone please tell me exactly how did Sony react to the months of headstart that Sega had during DC's launch? It might help to remember what Sony did last time, only if DC-PS2 and X360-PS3 scenarios have anything in common, of course. Do they?

 

[Marathon]

PS3: 90 million
XBox 360: 50 million
Revolution: 35 million

50 million???

You have to be joking.

 

[soundwave05]

50 million???

You have to be joking.

Well I basically see the U.S. market becoming split. Take the PS2-XBox totals in North America, now give a little less than half of that to MS. That's where the bulk of their increase will come from. Similar to the SNES-Genesis ... although I still think Sony will beat MS even in North America, more towards the end of the next-gen, just not by a whole lot.

The rest will primarily likely be from Europe, where the XBox brand should continue to grow. They won't beat Sony in Europe, but they should be a much stronger no.2.

Sony still wins by a huge margin though.

 

[CosmicGroinPull]

Could anyone please tell me exactly how did Sony react to the months of headstart that Sega had during DC's launch? It might help to remember what Sony did last time, only if DC-PS2 and X360-PS3 scenarios have anything in common, of course. Do they?

I'd like to know this too. And how did they react to Sega's "Sorry for your shipping difficulties" ad? That was funny. :lol

 

[fortified_concept]

Well I basically see the U.S. market becoming split. Take the PS2-XBox totals in North America, now give a little less than half of that to MS. That's where the bulk of their increase will come from. Similar to the SNES-Genesis ... although I still think Sony will beat MS even in North America, more towards the end of the next-gen, just not by a whole lot.

The rest will primarily likely be from Europe, where the XBox brand should continue to grow. They won't beat Sony in Europe, but they should be a much stronger no.2.

Sony still wins by a huge margin though.

Strange. Imo USA is the place I think 360 will dissapoint most next gen. Americans have the "biggest-most powerful is always better" mentality that's why xbox sold much better in USA compared to other regions. Now they've lost that I think they'll not sell so good there. I expect better sales than before for Europe though where PS3 will take longer to launch.

 

[Pimpbaa]

My guess is that it's gonna be genesis vs snes all over again. And it's going to be great for gamers.

 

[Sathsquatch]

Strange. Imo USA is the place I think 360 will dissapoint most next gen. Americans have the "biggest-most powerful is always better" mentality that's why xbox sold much better in USA compared to other regions. Now they've lost that I think they'll not sell so good there. I expect better sales than before for Europe though where PS3 will take longer to launch.

The American market does not value power in a console any more than other markets. The Genesis was weaker than the SNES, but the Genesis matched the SNES for most of the generation in the US. The Playstation was not definitively stronger than the N64, but the PS won in America like everywhere else.

 

[Orin GA]

The thread is hate in this strong

 

[LAMBO]

Sony should get the thing out as soon as possible in japan and let the rest of the world wait. The rest of the world then watches and becomes more and more hyped for the next big thing and when it comes it sells like hotcakes.

for the Ps3 a Japanese launch is the best advertising campaign ever.