Nice.
sounds like the HB and B tips are nice and the others are too hard (I like the soft tip feel).
I guess I'll just wait to get it when my current tip wears down.
Microsoft Surface Pro 4 announced: "better in nearly every way" (The Verge)
- Thread starter Anton Sugar
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Nice.
sounds like the HB and B tips are nice and the others are too hard (I like the soft tip feel).
I guess I'll just wait to get it when my current tip wears down.
Nnrgh. Yeah, alright. I think unless the hands-on impressions are bad, I'll be getting the SP4.
Any idea if the MS stores are having stock issues? Optimally I'd pick mine up while I'm in New York next week at the shiny new flagship store.
Got the Shakes
Member
It is hard to taken a photo of it with my phone. Held the S4pro against my black shirt horizontally and took a photo with my Lumia. If you click on the photo it expands out much bigger. So it is more visible when I am looking down at it from an angle while typing.
Same here. Only noticeable on boot up, haven't seen it at any other time.
brotkasten
Member
Surface Pro Artist has the SP4 m3 review up.
Overall pretty positive.
http://surfaceproartist.com/blog/20...ce-pro-4-is-the-only-ipad-pro-youll-ever-need
Overall pretty positive.
http://surfaceproartist.com/blog/20...ce-pro-4-is-the-only-ipad-pro-youll-ever-need
Philtastic
Member
I've been using my Surface Pro 4 (Core i5, 256 GB SSD, 8 GB RAM) for the last two weeks, having previously used a Surface Pro 2 for two years, and I think I'm ready to give a brief opinion on it (although there's apparently a huge Win10 update that happens tomorrow but I don't think I even need it to give my recommendation). At this point, I find that everything works the way it should except for an occasional Intel display driver crash while using the Edge browser that it recovers from seamlessly. I initially had a problem with the battery draining during sleep but the update on Nov. 2 seems to have fixed that. My keyboard port also died that same day so I got an exchange done at the Microsoft store.
Assuming that you have a fully functioning unit (which I think I have at this point - not sure how rare this is
), everything is excellent. Battery life is great at 6-8 hours with low-level use, 7-9 with battery saver on. Battery use during sleep is now down to 0.5-1% per hour without doing any tweaks (I've never enabled Hello and I still have WiFi during sleep turned on). I haven't had to do any workarounds or registry edits and, other than the Intel driver issue, I haven't had to mess around with any drivers. OS and app stability seems pretty good, although I'm not pushing it all that hard, mostly just Office 2013, Adobe CS5, Edge, Facebook, Calendar, Mail, OneNote, Visual Studio Community 2015, and Steam open at any given time.
The screen is gorgeous, and I don't notice any bleed during regular use. I'm enjoying the thinner & lighter yet larger screen form factor (compared to the SP2). Pen feels a lot better, both in the hand and writing on the screen, compared to the SP2's cheap plastic pen, particularly due to the textured nib that gives it some resistance while gliding on the screen. The tablet doesn't get that warm unless I'm doing something that constantly requires CPU/GPU and, even then, it's not uncomfortable to touch. The fan, however, is about as loud as it's ever been which might annoy some in an otherwise silent room. Video game performance is about what you'd expect from the Intel 520 vs. the 4400: you gain about 30-40% increased performance which will basically let you run at a higher resolution (1440x900, 16:10 for minimal black bars) with the same settings (ie. lowest-to-low). So far, I've tried Diablo 3, Marvel Heroes, and Gauntlet, and they all run quite well for a tablet.
The Type 4 keyboard is so much better than the Type 2: the keys have a lot more resistance for a more positive feel while the increased spacing between keys makes it feel more like a full-sized keyboard. I actually use the trackpad now that it's not garbage and my fingers can actually slide easily over the larger glass surface.
For anyone on a Surface Pro 1 or 2, this is an easy recommendation: the SP4 has marked improvements on almost every aspect that justifies upgrading if you have the money. This may not be such a big upgrade if you already have an SP3 since you already have the slimmer form factor, although the reduced temperatures & throttling might be of interest to you.
For someone who has never owned a Surface Pro, I highly recommend it if you feel that you want an exceptionally light and portable laptop that can do everything that a larger ultrabook can and you feel that you would also like a tablet to consume media off of (such as during your public transit commute, on those tiny seat tables on airplanes, lying in bed, or removing the keyboard to make space for your food while eating alone). For me, the portability was the main selling point while still being a full Windows 10 computer where the pen allowed for full mouse-like functionality compared to other Windows tablets. There is nothing quite like playing XCOM or Civilization 5 while standing on a moving subway train or Diablo 3 tethered to my phone while sitting on a long bus ride.
Assuming that you have a fully functioning unit (which I think I have at this point - not sure how rare this is
), everything is excellent. Battery life is great at 6-8 hours with low-level use, 7-9 with battery saver on. Battery use during sleep is now down to 0.5-1% per hour without doing any tweaks (I've never enabled Hello and I still have WiFi during sleep turned on). I haven't had to do any workarounds or registry edits and, other than the Intel driver issue, I haven't had to mess around with any drivers. OS and app stability seems pretty good, although I'm not pushing it all that hard, mostly just Office 2013, Adobe CS5, Edge, Facebook, Calendar, Mail, OneNote, Visual Studio Community 2015, and Steam open at any given time.The screen is gorgeous, and I don't notice any bleed during regular use. I'm enjoying the thinner & lighter yet larger screen form factor (compared to the SP2). Pen feels a lot better, both in the hand and writing on the screen, compared to the SP2's cheap plastic pen, particularly due to the textured nib that gives it some resistance while gliding on the screen. The tablet doesn't get that warm unless I'm doing something that constantly requires CPU/GPU and, even then, it's not uncomfortable to touch. The fan, however, is about as loud as it's ever been which might annoy some in an otherwise silent room. Video game performance is about what you'd expect from the Intel 520 vs. the 4400: you gain about 30-40% increased performance which will basically let you run at a higher resolution (1440x900, 16:10 for minimal black bars) with the same settings (ie. lowest-to-low). So far, I've tried Diablo 3, Marvel Heroes, and Gauntlet, and they all run quite well for a tablet.
The Type 4 keyboard is so much better than the Type 2: the keys have a lot more resistance for a more positive feel while the increased spacing between keys makes it feel more like a full-sized keyboard. I actually use the trackpad now that it's not garbage and my fingers can actually slide easily over the larger glass surface.
For anyone on a Surface Pro 1 or 2, this is an easy recommendation: the SP4 has marked improvements on almost every aspect that justifies upgrading if you have the money. This may not be such a big upgrade if you already have an SP3 since you already have the slimmer form factor, although the reduced temperatures & throttling might be of interest to you.
For someone who has never owned a Surface Pro, I highly recommend it if you feel that you want an exceptionally light and portable laptop that can do everything that a larger ultrabook can and you feel that you would also like a tablet to consume media off of (such as during your public transit commute, on those tiny seat tables on airplanes, lying in bed, or removing the keyboard to make space for your food while eating alone). For me, the portability was the main selling point while still being a full Windows 10 computer where the pen allowed for full mouse-like functionality compared to other Windows tablets. There is nothing quite like playing XCOM or Civilization 5 while standing on a moving subway train or Diablo 3 tethered to my phone while sitting on a long bus ride.
Elitist1945
Member
In spirit of Fallout 4, I tested my shit art abilities. Turned out good for my low standards.
I obviously used a reference.
I haven't heard my fan since it finished all of the initial updates, patches, and likely indexing. I'm not gaming, but you probably won't be gaming with the slower option anyways.
I'm not even talking Steam here
I downloaded the Minecraft Trial from the Windows Store - fan after a very short while. Which stayed on well past the time I killed the app.
Yesterday, the fan was flying while playing the Star Wars Commander app - not exactly graphically intensive. Hoping i just have to "break it in" a bit (does have the 11/2/15 hardware update installed). Really like the hardware but if the fan is going to go off even when doing tablet-y stuff, I'll look at downgrading to the m3
How long have you had your tablet up and running total? Indexing and stuff can take quite a bit of time.
IE: I've been using my tablet (i5 8GB) to digitally draw and paint in using Clip Studio Paint, and my fan doesn't go on anymore (actually it briefly went on yesterday in while charging and in hibernate mode, lol).
IE: I've been using my tablet (i5 8GB) to digitally draw and paint in using Clip Studio Paint, and my fan doesn't go on anymore (actually it briefly went on yesterday in while charging and in hibernate mode, lol).
Only had it for 2 days now, so today was the first real day of work. I'm hoping you are right and it just needs to settle in a bit.
Protip I've found (since I heard the fan going off while it was asleep this morning!): go to the power settings and dig in deep. No idea why it has keep Wifi on when Sleeping by default when on battery and plugged in...
I got a SP4 with my discretionary fund for tools and such @ work. i5/16GB/256GB. As far as I can tell so far, it can do everything I want it to do and then some. Only area where it falters is CAD work, but that was to be expected. Well, that and the general unfriendliness of even Win10 to high DPI displays. I do a lot of work w/ software within a VM instance of Windows 7/XP, and at times the only recourse was to lower the resolution. If the supposed Win10 update resolves issues like battery discharge, occasional failure to recover from sleep and other inconveniences (that become absolute showstoppers in work environments such as startups where I really want the mobile setup), I'll be a pretty happy camper.
I've really taken a liking to taking notes / sketches on this thing using OneNote. Sharing ideas on it is easy, and using screen sharing and skype I can get very good collaboration w/ coworkers in remote offices. For a while I thought this would be an all-or-nothing affair since I don't want to be carrying an extra 2lb device as a companion device, but I may just end up dumping my engineering notebook and have this in my kit instead. Technically design work is out of my scope of work and I should be doing more programming, which I'll be getting back to later this week. Once I get a better feel for how it performs in that realm I'll decide whether I want to switch up for an i7/16GB/1TB or make this current system a companion to a Precision 5510 (sub 4lb Skylake laptop w/ 35w quad core processors and 15in screen). I could still do a majority of my work on the Surface if needed so my daily carry is lighter.
I've really taken a liking to taking notes / sketches on this thing using OneNote. Sharing ideas on it is easy, and using screen sharing and skype I can get very good collaboration w/ coworkers in remote offices. For a while I thought this would be an all-or-nothing affair since I don't want to be carrying an extra 2lb device as a companion device, but I may just end up dumping my engineering notebook and have this in my kit instead. Technically design work is out of my scope of work and I should be doing more programming, which I'll be getting back to later this week. Once I get a better feel for how it performs in that realm I'll decide whether I want to switch up for an i7/16GB/1TB or make this current system a companion to a Precision 5510 (sub 4lb Skylake laptop w/ 35w quad core processors and 15in screen). I could still do a majority of my work on the Surface if needed so my daily carry is lighter.
I'm not even talking Steam here
I downloaded the Minecraft Trial from the Windows Store - fan after a very short while. Which stayed on well past the time I killed the app.
Yesterday, the fan was flying while playing the Star Wars Commander app - not exactly graphically intensive. Hoping i just have to "break it in" a bit (does have the 11/2/15 hardware update installed). Really like the hardware but if the fan is going to go off even when doing tablet-y stuff, I'll look at downgrading to the m3
Minecraft on Windows 10 should be a lot more efficient than the Java version. Wonder if ti wasn't framecapped, letting it run at max power? If you dropped to an m3 you'd have no fan but also less processor headroom so it perform worse.
I wonder if there is a compromise to be had where you could cap the CPU/GPU frequency on the i5 at a level that would stop the fan kicking in? Is there a 'max battery' power setting or something that might do that?
Possibly. Quite a few power settings to dig through (seems like more than on a typical Win10 laptop)
NinjaMouse
Member
Are any of you getting the graphics driver still crashing? Im using a SP4 (i5/8gb/256gb) and I get this primarily when using Edge. I've downloaded and installed the 11/2 update which supposedly brought a new driver and fixed some graphics issues but it still does it quite often.
Also (and probably attributed to the graphics driver issue), but I can't launch Metal Gear Rising from Steam. It should work, no? I've seen YouTube videos of folks running it on their SP3, so I figured the 4 would be fine.
Also (and probably attributed to the graphics driver issue), but I can't launch Metal Gear Rising from Steam. It should work, no? I've seen YouTube videos of folks running it on their SP3, so I figured the 4 would be fine.
Yes I still am, even after installing the update. Almost exclusively while Using Edge. I'll see if the same happens when using a different browser.
I don't have a SP4 (...yet) but I just wanted to say I've been using a 4GB SP2 for the past 2 years and have run large and complex projects through Photoshop, Clip Paint Studio and Unity without a problem so the SP4 should handle them great too. I felt like the SP2 handled memory usage way better than my desktop PC with twice the ram!
So the SP4 just launched and student prices have finally gone live here in Aus. Got to play around with a demo unit at JB-HiFi, though they weren't able to match student pricing (not quite yet anyway) so I ordered one online instead. Got the i5/8GB/256GB model, like everyone else and their dog (I decided not to wait for i7 benchmark, shit is just too expensive). Should arrive by Monday, I can't wait.
That's pretty great to hear! The £230 price difference is a lot to take in when I'll still have an 8GB laptop.
My only main concern is the lack of buttons, unlike the Wacom Cintiq.
I wonder whether there are Windows apps to add virtual on screen buttons for Alt, Ctrl, etc.
brotkasten
Member
There are. I've seen it in some videos, but I can't find the name.
brotkasten
Member
I'd stick to the general consensus that if you already have a Surface Pro 3, just buy a new type cover, and if you're buying new, get a Pro 4.
The SP4 starts shipping today here and should be available in retail tomorrow. I hope I can get my hands on it soon.
yes. PC world was saying today for stock and their stores often have decent Surface Pro areas with a few models, so I'm sure MS will be making sure they have the SP4.
edit: John Lewis showing stock of the m3 version online, they often also have stock on the floor.
edit2: Doesn't mean an easy return if you don't like it - don't most UK stores have a 'fuck off if you've opened it' policy at least for computers? Personally if you're on the fence, I'd spend time in PC World/JL to try them out for a while. Then if you're confident, buy online from the MS store - they give you a 30 day return which seems no quibble, so like an Apple purchase you can just return it with no questions asked. They are online only in the UK I think, so that would mean posting it back though. But if you buy from PC World and then go back and say you don't like it, they will laugh at you.
Im in the UK and my Pro 4 should be delivered within the next few hours. Im hyped to finally be upgrading from my ancient Pro 1.
My only concerns remain the SSD speeds. I copy across a lot of HD movies from my device so I'd really appreciate the disk speed improvements. I think the faster drives are only in the 512GB+ machines. Im buying a 128GB i5 model so I guess I might be stuck with the snail speed version. Has the slower disk speed been noticeable to any other pro 4 users?
My only concerns remain the SSD speeds. I copy across a lot of HD movies from my device so I'd really appreciate the disk speed improvements. I think the faster drives are only in the 512GB+ machines. Im buying a 128GB i5 model so I guess I might be stuck with the snail speed version. Has the slower disk speed been noticeable to any other pro 4 users?
Only if you do high bitrate video editing. If you copy stuffs over wifi, your SSD would probably still be faster than your wifi. Faster drives are from Toshiba. I think they are only available in 256GB+ size, and even then, the chance of getting them is small. Most drives are from Samsung. I haven't seen a 128GB Toshiba so you probably will get a Samsung. The Samsung drive is made of TLC nands, so you probably don't want to abuse it too much. You should definitely use a microSD card to store most stuff.
I'd be willing to jump to the 256GB model if there was a guarantee of SSD speed improvement but its a lottery and I can't justify the huge price increase.
I'd be OK with the slower speed if say it isnt actually slower than the Pro 3 which is being discounted everywhere. I was actually mulling that too since I'd be getting double the SSD and RAM for the same price. The CPU speed improvement isnt a seller for me.
MS are offering a decent trade in deal for my Pro 1 which is the main reason I'd consider a Pro 4 over a Pro 3.
Hold on.... UPS just came!
I brought my SP4 to the MS Store where I purchased it. They replaced/switched out my unit. My new unit has a few lesser bleeds at the bottom of the logo screen (not as far reaching as my first unit) as well. I think its something that happens under low light scenarios.
In the MS store with its led/white lighting you can't really see it.
The one ms rep said that he had seen a few SP3 models where the led backlit would potentially fail across the panel, but they are isolated cases that are rare. As I have mentioned and what some others have mentioned a few posts before, after the logo screen the bleed disappears and is not visible on the screen in low/no light settings.
Either way I have the 2 yr accidental warranty which was not that much extra ( $120 I believe) where if something does happen or something cracks/breaks/fails I can get a new unit for a $50 up to 2times.
They have this same great warranty for there phones as well.
I returned and refunded my Surface Pro 3 to Microsoft but I'm left with the dock and the type cover. Will the type cover work / fit nicely with the SP4, I remember my SP1 cover just looked silly on the SP3.
I'm in the UK if anyone wants to buy, £50 for the type cover and £90 for the dock. Both hardly used and boxed.
I'm in the UK if anyone wants to buy, £50 for the type cover and £90 for the dock. Both hardly used and boxed.
brotkasten
Member
The Type Cover 3 works and fits perfectly, since the size of the Pro 4 remained the same. That said, the new Type Cover is supposed to be a huge upgrade over the old one.
From my brief 5 minutes hands on with both side by side the difference is night and day, huge is an understatement. The track pad in particular. The SP3 trackpad is comically small whilst the SP4 track pad is simply glorious. I'm talking Macbook grade glorious here. Keys are also a big improvement but comparatively not as big of one.
The new Type Cover is fantastic. The bigger, glass trackpad feels great (nearing a Macbook trackpad quality wise IMO). Very easy to type and swipe.
picked up the new surface dock for my surface pro 3. Highly recommended. No huge case to put the surface in, one cable that runs Ethernet, 4 USBs, 2 monitors, etc. Hooked it up to my Dell U2711 and it runs it at full resolution. I had another USB 3.0 dock that ran it at a smaller resolution and it was unusable.
Just nipped into town at lunchtime and bought the Surface Pro 4 i5 4GB. It's a bit of an impulse purchase, but sometimes you have to go with it. I intend to try it out and see whether it suits my needs, or either return it outright, or return it and buy the 8GB one instead.
Frustratingly they didn't have any of the keyboard covers available, but said they'll have them in tomorrow, so I'll nip and get one on Saturday morning.
They said they prefer that I didn't open it, but said it's totally okay if I want to try it out and then want to return it. (it's just more hassle for them).
Frustratingly they didn't have any of the keyboard covers available, but said they'll have them in tomorrow, so I'll nip and get one on Saturday morning.
I spoke to them about returns and they said it's okay.
They said they prefer that I didn't open it, but said it's totally okay if I want to try it out and then want to return it. (it's just more hassle for them).
where did you buy from? I'd much prefer the convenience of returning to a retail store (plus quicker to buy) but I was always wary of the returns policies.
DistortionOfReality
Member
Question for the surface folks in here; I am currently tossing up between a rMBP 13" and the SP4 (Obviously would wait for the MBP skylake refresh early next year). Does anyone know why noone has compared these 2 devices? Microsoft is always comparing the Surface to the Macbook Air, but the 13" MBP has the same specs as the SP4 at the exact same price point (256/8/i5 for £1070 in the UK with educational discount applied).
Why is it being compared everywhere with the underpowered and underpriced Air? Or worse yet, the completely non-comparable iPad pro? Yes I can compare the specs myself but I was more looking for a day to day comparison.
Edit: those prices are compared with the Surface price including the type cover because there is no way I'm getting one without. This is to replace a 2011 15" MBP by the way.
Why is it being compared everywhere with the underpowered and underpriced Air? Or worse yet, the completely non-comparable iPad pro? Yes I can compare the specs myself but I was more looking for a day to day comparison.
Edit: those prices are compared with the Surface price including the type cover because there is no way I'm getting one without. This is to replace a 2011 15" MBP by the way.
my guess would be that the MBP is a 'standard' laptop whereas the Surface Pro line are ultrabooks and therefore likely to have tradeoffs in power to hit the desired form factor, and so are not directly compared?
DistortionOfReality
Member
Argh. I don't know they just seem a lot more comparable spec and price wise, other than form factor.
It's for personal use and I already have a windows desktop for work/.NET coding, so mainly for media, light gaming, note taking and portability. I'm just getting more unsure as to whether I will be satisfied with using the surface pro on the couch, as a tablet, battery life etc. They are just so close, in my eyes, that I find it hard to call.
I found a recommendation for virtual buttons. It sounds a bit janky tbh, but I'm going to give it a try. It's called Toolbar Creator, and you can see a guy using it here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLcUyfE_uPs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLcUyfE_uPs
I got it from John Lewis. They only had two in stock (so not much choice of spec), but they only got it today. There was a Microsoft Surface rep there that was delighted I was buying it, lol.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
Just fired it up.
Clip Paint Studio works fine (although it'll take a lot of getting used to!! o_o)
edit: apparently forcing a firmware update via windows update will fix the problems in Sai. I'm 75% through the update now, so will report back.
Clip Paint Studio works fine (although it'll take a lot of getting used to!! o_o)
Paint Tool Sai, however, doesn't detect pen pressure at all. Seems to be a big problem, lots of people complaining about this with Surface Pro 4. This is very worrying because Sai hasn't been updated in years.
edit: looks like the technical preview of Sai 2 will work with the SP4, but that could be a long time before it is released.
edit: apparently forcing a firmware update via windows update will fix the problems in Sai. I'm 75% through the update now, so will report back.
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