Support NeoGAF

[RurouniZel]

Just fired it up.

Clip Paint Studio works fine (although it'll take a lot of getting used to!! o_o)

Paint Tool Sai, however, doesn't detect pen pressure at all. Seems to be a big problem, lots of people complaining about this with Surface Pro 4. This is very worrying because Sai hasn't been updated in years.

edit: looks like the technical preview of Sai 2 will work with the SP4, but that could be a long time before it is released.

Welp, there goes any thoughts of buying one of these. :-/

Sai 2 can't come soon enough.

 

[dock]

Welp, there goes any thoughts of buying one of these. :-/

Sai 2 can't come soon enough.

Apparently forcing a firmware update will help this issue. I'll report back!

 

[harSon]

Just got the Type Cover 4 for my Pro 3 - feels SO much better already, definitely worth the upgrade!

Yeah, I didn't particularly even hate the Type Cover 3 till I purchased the 4. It's such a massive step up. It still falls short of a quality keyboard found in a dedicated laptop, but they're definitely taking some strides towards closing that gap a bit.

 

[RurouniZel]

Apparently forcing a firmware update will help this issue. I'll report back!

Okay, lemme know how it goes. :3

 

[zou]

damn, SP4 drivers don't work with W8.1 properly. touch and buttons are fucked :/

guess I'll have to exchange it for a SP3.

 

[cilonen]

My Surface Pro 4 arrived today, this thing is awesome. The handwriting recognition is actually half decent and the screen is gorgeous. Really looking forward to getting in to Lightroom on this.

I've also installed Steam and am tempted to try Fallout 4 on here. I have the i5 / 8 Gb / 256 Gb SSD version so I'll see what kind of slideshow I get!

 

[dock]

My windows update finally installed, but made no difference to pen pressure in Sai.

I don't know how you do a firmware update specifically, though.

 

[btrboyev]

damn, SP4 drivers don't work with W8.1 properly. touch and buttons are fucked :/

guess I'll have to exchange it for a SP3.

Dumbest thing I've ever heard. You hate windows 10 that much?

 

[brotkasten]

My windows update finally installed, but made no difference to pen pressure in Sai.

I don't know how you do a firmware update specifically, though.

Have you tried installing the Wintab driver? I think it's supposed to help with these kind of issues.

http://download.microsoft.com/downl...-8059-E54C91C564A9/Wintab-1.0.0.20-64-bit.zip

 

[zou]

Dumbest thing I've ever heard. You hate windows 10 that much?

on a tablet, hell yes.

 

[GTI Guy]

I returned and refunded my Surface Pro 3 to Microsoft but I'm left with the dock and the type cover. Will the type cover work / fit nicely with the SP4, I remember my SP1 cover just looked silly on the SP3.

I'm in the UK if anyone wants to buy, £50 for the type cover and £90 for the dock. Both hardly used and boxed.

You can use the SP4 with your SP3 dock with an adapter that Microsoft will let you order. Just pay shipping and handling. 😃

 

[captive]

I mean what are you doing with your computer? Unless you have some power user needs either computer should be fine for you, so you just need to decide if you want Windows over OS X. Do you a hybrid tablet/laptop or a traditional laptop?

SP3 here, I5 8gb, I run lightroom and photoshop and open TIFF files that are sometimes 500gb or more in size and it handles editing them fine.

damn, SP4 drivers don't work with W8.1 properly. touch and buttons are fucked :/

guess I'll have to exchange it for a SP3.

did you really expect them to work?

 

[Luigiv]

Blah, my order switched from "Processing" to "Back Ordered" this morning. It would be nice if I had known they were low on stock before I ordered. Fix your shit Microsoft. Guess I won't be getting it on Monday as I had originally hoped.

Edit: looks like I spoke too soon, just updated to shipped (though for some reason it took an hour longer than the touch cover despite both being picked up by the courier simultaneously). Seriously MS, fix your shit.

 

[dock]

Headaches continue with the Surface Pro 4.

Half Life 2 refuses to recognise any resolution other than 640x480, while Spelunky seems to run properly (1080p I guess?). Jet Set Radio refuses to run at all.

I was surprised at how bad Steam's Big Picture mode is with touchscreen. It doesn't allow you to scroll, and some of the buttons don't work correctly.

Have you tried installing the Wintab driver? I think it's supposed to help with these kind of issues.

http://download.microsoft.com/downl...-8059-E54C91C564A9/Wintab-1.0.0.20-64-bit.zip

Yeah, I've tried installing that multiple times (pre and post windows update).
I might try for a third time. I'll also register Sai to see if that makes a difference.

Krita has problems with the GPU, so I had to disable Open GL.
Also, Krita too doesn't seem to recognise pen pressure, so it's useless.

 

[dorn.]

Just got my 4gb i5, gotta say first impressions aren't all that positive. Used it for just over half an hour and already had to restart because it got stuck in portrait mode. It took me several tries and 20 minutes to install onenote, which somehow only lets me save in OneDrive, which really sucks because wifi doesn't work, like, at all. I can't even load web pages in Edge and it somehow managed to crash my router. It's also brutally slow but I guess that's that indexing stuff doing its thing? I'm just gonna let it charge for a while and see if things get better. Hardwarewise, the screen seems fine, at least in daylight I can't see any bleeding, but there's a noticeable gap on the left side where the plastic part at the top and the metal body meet.

 

[Alpha_eX]

Anyone know if the display driver still causes horrible colour banding to save battery? I remember having to install a custom one with my SP3, while connected to a monitor movies looked like trash, especially Netflix.

 

[Got the Shakes]

Just got my 4gb i5, gotta say first impressions aren't all that positive. Used it for just over half an hour and already had to restart because it got stuck in portrait mode. It took me several tries and 20 minutes to install onenote, which somehow only lets me save in OneDrive, which really sucks because wifi doesn't work, like, at all. I can't even load web pages in Edge and it somehow managed to crash my router. It's also brutally slow but I guess that's that indexing stuff doing its thing? I'm just gonna let it charge for a while and see if things get better. Hardwarewise, the screen seems fine, at least in daylight I can't see any bleeding, but there's a noticeable gap on the left side where the plastic part at the top and the metal body meet.

None of that sounds normal from my use. I haven't had a single crash, have it lock in any one orientation, or Edge issues.

Also, I did a bit of experimenting last night with the battery since I have the Windows 10 fall update and the latest firmware and all of that stuff installed. I'm planning on doing more over the coming days, but this is just a start. Settings for sleep were default except I turned of allow wifi to connect while in sleep mode. I closed the lid about 11 last night and opened this morning at 8. So after 9 hours my battery dropped 8% or a little less than 1% an hour. Not sure how this lines up with past Surfaces since the 4 Pro is my first, just thought I'd throw another data point out there.

Edit: After another few hours in sleep lost 5% of the charge. As other people have said, setting it to hibernate with the cover closed or pressing the sleep button seems to be the way to go. Not a huge issue for me personally since it only costs a few extra seconds to get to the desktop, but it's something that MS should fix nonetheless.

 

[Weevilone]

Is it just accepted with these that you can't use auto brightness? Mine is like a strobe light.

 

[Animator]

I found a recommendation for virtual buttons. It sounds a bit janky tbh, but I'm going to give it a try. It's called Toolbar Creator, and you can see a guy using it here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLcUyfE_uPs


I got it from John Lewis. They only had two in stock (so not much choice of spec), but they only got it today. There was a Microsoft Surface rep there that was delighted I was buying it, lol.

I am guessing I can use this on my surface book as well right?

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

I am guessing I can use this on my surface book as well right?

I would think so. I believe they use the same pen unless I'm remembering wrong.

 

[Animator]

I would think so. I believe they use the same pen unless I'm remembering wrong.

I think so. The pen probably doesn't even matter since in the video he is using it with his fingers while using the pen with the other hand which is what I want.

 

[Stinkles]

Just got my 4gb i5, gotta say first impressions aren't all that positive. Used it for just over half an hour and already had to restart because it got stuck in portrait mode. It took me several tries and 20 minutes to install onenote, which somehow only lets me save in OneDrive, which really sucks because wifi doesn't work, like, at all. I can't even load web pages in Edge and it somehow managed to crash my router. It's also brutally slow but I guess that's that indexing stuff doing its thing? I'm just gonna let it charge for a while and see if things get better. Hardwarewise, the screen seems fine, at least in daylight I can't see any bleeding, but there's a noticeable gap on the left side where the plastic part at the top and the metal body meet.

Have you grabbed all the updates? Including the firmware update?

 

[dock]

I just picked up the Type Cover for my Surface Pro 4. This is a really nice keyboard, and Windows really needs a keyboard in order to work properly. The price smarts, but the touchpad is much needed!

Is there a way to swap the FN toggle for the keyboard? I want the F-keys instead of volume control, etc. It's a bummer to have pgup/pgdn.
edit - whoops, turns out you can just pretty FN to toggle it's behaviour.

I somehow managed to get PaintToolSai working, but I don't know how. I think it involved this process:

- install a ton of updates
- register the software
- pull my hair out in frustration
- reinstall the software over the software
- reboot a bunch of times

 

[Welcome to you're "DOOM!"]

I just bought the 4gb i5 a couple days ago and its been pretty decent so far. I get a popup every now and then that says the screen driver stopped working. That worries me a bit.

The weirdest thing is that the bloatware keeps reinstalling itself. I uninstalled the "Get Office", "NY Times Crossword", and some microsoft puzzle bs a few times but they keep coming back. Seems shady.

 

[MercuryLS]

I just bought the 4gb i5 a couple days ago and its been pretty decent so far. I get a popup every now and then that says the screen driver stopped working. That worries me a bit.

The weirdest thing is that the bloatware keeps reinstalling itself. I uninstalled the "Get Office", "NY Times Crossword", and some microsoft puzzle bs a few times but they keep coming back. Seems shady.

Windows is a feature for some, but for me it's absolutely why I would never consider the surface pro or the book. They might be able to get close to the quality of Apple's hardware in many ways, but these things are still running Windows.

 

[Welcome to you're "DOOM!"]

Windows is a feature for some, but for me it's absolutely why I would never consider the surface pro or the book. They might be able to get close to the quality of Apple's hardware in many ways, but these things are still running Windows.

Windows 10 isn't horrible, at least not to me. I've never really tried an Apple computer tho. I'm contemplating just returning the surface for something else. I need a good reliable laptop for college and afterwards.

Oh and the track pad on the keyboard is shit. It's unresponsive too damn often.

 

[Future]

Windows 10 isn't horrible, at least not to me. I've never really tried an Apple computer tho. I'm contemplating just returning the surface for something else. I need a good reliable laptop for college and afterwards.

Oh and the track pad on the keyboard is shit. It's unresponsive too damn often.

Id return it if I were you. Surface is for people that want the tablet touch experience as well in that tiny form factor. A Mac air would probably deliver what you need more if you just need a basic slim laptop

 

[Shogmaster]

Id return it if I were you. Surface is for people that want the tablet touch experience as well in that tiny form factor. A Mac air would probably deliver what you need more if you just need a basic slim laptop

What a downgrade. There are literally metric tons of better slim laptops for Windows. Also, why would you force someone to do a platform change for no good reason?

 

[MercuryLS]

Windows 10 isn't horrible, at least not to me. I've never really tried an Apple computer tho. I'm contemplating just returning the surface for something else. I need a good reliable laptop for college and afterwards.

Oh and the track pad on the keyboard is shit. It's unresponsive too damn often.

I don't think it's horrible either, I've got it installed on an older desktop. It's ok, gets the job done. If you want a good, reliable laptop with a great keyboard and trackpad you should absolutely get a Mac imo. The screens on the Airs aren't so hot, but the Pros are great. I switched over to Mac in 09 and I wouldn't go back. The trackpad and OS being the biggest reasons for me, build quality and resale value being other important reasons. The trackpad especially, it's so good, the gestures you learn makes you fly when it comes to multitasking.

 

[Future]

What a downgrade. There are literally metric tons of better slim laptops for Windows. Also, why would you force someone to do a platform change for no good reason?

Well since he bought a surface to begin with I'm assuming he wants things as light as possible. And he wants a kick ass trackpad. And he's got some complaints with some windows style bloatware. There are other possibilities of course but the Mac air should do the job. It is a downgrade on speed though

Personally I can't relate to these problems, but maybe it's because I know my way way around windows pretty well. I've never seen bloatware reinstall

I find the touchpad pretty super responsive outside of 3rd party browsers, and if you need it faster you can try disabling the pinch to zoom stuff in settings (there is a slight delay when trying to detect double finger scroll and double finger pinch)

 

[zou]

did you really expect them to work?

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect them to support Win 8.1. And out of all the W10 drivers, all but 3 actually work once you disable signed drivers.

 

[Welcome to you're "DOOM!"]

Id return it if I were you. Surface is for people that want the tablet touch experience as well in that tiny form factor. A Mac air would probably deliver what you need more if you just need a basic slim laptop

I don't think it's horrible either, I've got it installed on an older desktop. It's ok, gets the job done. If you want a good, reliable laptop with a great keyboard and trackpad you should absolutely get a Mac imo. The screens on the Airs aren't so hot, but the Pros are great. I switched over to Mac in 09 and I wouldn't go back. The trackpad and OS being the biggest reasons for me, build quality and resale value being other important reasons. The trackpad especially, it's so good, the gestures you learn makes you fly when it comes to multitasking.

Only reason I wouldn't get a mac as of right now is because I've already invested money into a lot of the programs that I need for college. Getting a mac means I'll have to buy the same programs again and I am not willing to do that right now.

 

[Shogmaster]

Well since he bought a surface to begin with I'm assuming he wants things as light as possible. And he wants a kick ass trackpad. And he's got some complaints with some windows style bloatware. There are other possibilities of course but the Mac air should do the job. It is a downgrade on speed though

Personally I can't relate to these problems, but maybe it's because I know my way way around windows pretty well. I've never seen bloatware reinstall

I find the touchpad pretty super responsive outside of 3rd party browsers, and if you need it faster you can try disabling the pinch to zoom stuff in settings (there is a slight delay when trying to detect double finger scroll and double finger pinch)

Are you a Politian? Because your looong answer failed to address most of my questions. lol

1. He is a Windows user. Don't recommend Mac "just because". Bububu Bootcamp is not enough. Same goes the other way.

2. If you are after thin and light, MacBook Air actually quite mediocre these days. This thing is lighter than the 11" MBA and is 13"!

I think the sweet spot is 12.5" Windows thin and light laptops. Cheaper, more powerful and just as light as MBA.

 

[Future]

Are you a Politian? Because your looong answer failed to address most of my questions. lol

1. He is a Windows user. Don't recommend Mac "just because". Bububu Bootcamp is not enough. Same goes the other way.

2. If you are after thin and light, MacBook Air actually quite mediocre these days. This thing is lighter than the 11" MBA and is 13"!

I think the sweet spot is 12.5" Windows thin and light laptops. Cheaper, more powerful and just as light as MBA.

If you read the first paragraph I I gave the answers. Are you a savant that doesn't need to read?

Touchpad, weight, and lack of windows style hardships is where the Air excels. Not even a debate

Rest of the post was talking about the fact he probably can make do with windows though. Bloatware shouldn't be an issue if you nip it in the bud, and there are some ways to customize the trackpad to be snappier on the surface. Since he needs windows in particular, I'd start trying to customize the surface more before writing it off.

 

[MercuryLS]

Only reason I wouldn't get a mac as of right now is because I've already invested money into a lot of the programs that I need for college. Getting a mac means I'll have to buy the same programs again and I am not willing to do that right now.

Yeah then maybe not, but boot camping Windows on the Mac for those programs is still an option.

 

[Welcome to you're "DOOM!"]

Yeah then maybe not, but boot camping Windows on the Mac for those programs is still an option.

How good is bootcamping? And is the air powerful enough to run things like autocad, multisim, and some programming apps?

 

[MercuryLS]

How good is bootcamping? And is the air powerful enough to run things like autocad, multisim, and some programming apps?

People complain about the drivers, but I've had no issues with boot camp when I tired it on the Air and Pros in the past. Airs are pretty powerful nowadays, should run those programs just fine. If you get an Air, get the 13" one, the 16:10 screen is a lot roomier than the 11" 16:9 one and the batter life is a bonkers 12-13 hours.

 

[Welcome to you're "DOOM!"]

People complain about the drivers, but I've had no issues with boot camp when I tired it on the Air and Pros in the past. Airs are pretty powerful nowadays, should run those programs just fine. If you get an Air, get the 13" one, the 16:10 screen is a lot roomier than the 11" 16:9 one and the batter life is a bonkers 12-13 hours.

Thanks Mercury, you've been really helpful. I'm gonna have to do some research and get some hands on time.

 

[MercuryLS]

Thanks Mercury, you've been really helpful. I'm gonna have to do some research and get some hands on time.

No prob, best thing to do is try them out for yourself. My only gripe with the Air is the screen, they are dated. Everything else is pretty great, especially the keyboard, trackpad, battery life and overall build quality.

Btw, there's also the option to use virtualization software run Windows inside OSX. I have no experience with this, so someone else would have to give you impressions on this.

 

[Kysen]

Picked one of these up today, it is incredible. Zero issues getting all my stuff installed and no crashes either. Mind boggling how they packed so much tech into a device so small.

First time using Windows with a touchscreen and pen. Found out it even transcribes my handwritten Kanji input making it an excellent tool for looking up stuff when I am playing imports. Having tried the SP3 type cover last week and hating it getting the SP4 cover today it was a huge step up.

Gonna give it another few days but it looks like I will be selling my rMBP for sure. The biggest issue I have with the MB is the fan when streaming any 60fps video. I once woke up at 3am to the sound of my MB fan. A stream I watched before bed ended but continued to run the CPU full tilt. The noise is unbearable when not drowned out by video audio(Jet engine).

The surface isn't silent but it is a good deal quieter in the exact same scenario.

 

[Shogmaster]

If you read the first paragraph I I gave the answers. Are you a savant that doesn't need to read?

Touchpad, weight, and lack of windows style hardships is where the Air excels. Not even a debate

Rest of the post was talking about the fact he probably can make do with windows though. Bloatware shouldn't be an issue if you nip it in the bud, and there are some ways to customize the trackpad to be snappier on the surface. Since he needs windows in particular, I'd start trying to customize the surface more before writing it off.

So basically unasked for platform evangelizing. How surprising.

 

[mulac]

Is this a good microsd card for the SP4? Looking for some more space...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B010Q588D4/?tag=neogaf0e-20

 

[dLMN8R]

I've used MacBooks plenty of times (including the 2015 piece of shit) to know that they're not perfect devices. The keyboard on the 2015 POS is literally the worst keyboard I've ever used on a laptop, barely better than the shitty touch cover from the original Surface (and worse than the original type cover).

And now with the Type Cover 4 and the Surface Book, MacBooks no longer have any sort of notable edge in trackpad either.

And while OS X historically handles trackpads more consistently in various apps, the Windows 10 November update alleviates that problem too. The trackpad on the Type Cover 4 and the Surface Book are pretty much perfect now with the 1511 update.



So....bringing them up in this thread is pretty weird.

 

[Luigiv]

Is this a good microsd card for the SP4? Looking for some more space...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B010Q588D4/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Sandisk Ultra's are pretty solid, I'd say it's a good way to go.

 

[dock]

Is there a list anywhere of all software that doesn't scale the UI in Windows 10?

Lots of software, including Photoshop 2013 and Visual Studio 2010, is native res and unusable on this display. Every app I run is a crapshoot! I dread trying hacky things like emulators.

Sadly there's no native 200% resolution either, or even and 3:2 ratio resolutions.

 

[Xan Kriegor]

Windows 10 isn't horrible, at least not to me. I've never really tried an Apple computer tho. I'm contemplating just returning the surface for something else. I need a good reliable laptop for college and afterwards.

Oh and the track pad on the keyboard is shit. It's unresponsive too damn often.

How good is bootcamping? And is the air powerful enough to run things like autocad, multisim, and some programming apps?

There are lots of laptops that are really reliable for your needs. Ultrabooks get a lot of attention while from my experiemce, for college purposes and future proof CAD purposes, laptops are much better and cheaper. What you need to realize is that that the trackpads on Macbooks are great, but compare them to trackpads of Windows (10) devices of the same price and they're not that much better. As someone who has graduated from Architectural Engineering and currently studying Civil Engineering, having worked with MatrixFrame, Autocad, Archicad, Autocad Civil and Arkey, I advise you to not buy a Macbook Air (I owned one). I can't advise you to not not buy a Macbook Pro, that's personal. But, there are cheaper Windows bases devices that have good trackpads, great hardware with good build quality in general that are not worse than the MB Pro. Don't let your bad experiences with a certain Windows device form an opinion on Windows in general.

 

[Luigi87]

Is there a list anywhere of all software that doesn't scale the UI in Windows 10?

Lots of software, including Photoshop 2013 and Visual Studio 2010, is native res and unusable on this display. Every app I run is a crapshoot! I dread trying hacky things like emulators.

Sadly there's no native 200% resolution either, or even and 3:2 ratio resolutions.

Yeah older software with high DPI can be an issue.
I had the same issue with 3DS Max (as Autodesk hasn't updated that for high DPI yet, though Maya is).

I know you said you dread doing stuff like this, but this simple changed works.

http://www.danantonielli.com/adobe-app-scaling-on-high-dpi-displays-fix/

 

[Forsete]

So did the last big Win 10 update have any effect on the most common bugs?

• Display driver crash
• Battery drain
• Keyboard disconnection

One guy I read did a complete clean install as soon as he got his and he hasn't seen any issues yet.

 

[Stinkles]

So did the last big Win 10 update have any effect on the most common bugs?

• Display driver crash
• Battery drain
• Keyboard disconnection

One guy I read did a complete clean install as soon as he got his and he hasn't seen any issues yet.

I upgraded and after a restart the Intel (8.1) display error is gone. Although weirdly it only started this morning, before I upgraded.

It does want me to reinstall Final Draft 8, but it seems to be working regardless. I will just keep using it until I lose a whole script because I ignored the polite warnings 15 or 16 times. And then blame it.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Still seeing the display driver crash. That's not going to be fixed by TH2, Intel needs to deliver updated drivers for Skylake processors.