The play is for a bigger audience. They will not make any more $ shifting which ecosystem a console uses. That's peanuts in comparison to the play for 1BN users.
Microsoft unifying PC/XB1 platforms, Phil implies Xbox moving to incremental upgrades
- Thread starter dancrane212
- Start date
The play is for a bigger audience. They will not make any more $ shifting which ecosystem a console uses. That's peanuts in comparison to the play for 1BN users.
Maintenance
Member
Heh, historical revisionism at its best
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
For all this discussion and meltdowns, one thing isnt clear. Was spencer talking from a therotical point of view, looking at Xbox as a platform moving forward, or is this a precursor to a product launch in the forseable future?
Personally I think its the former and as such means very little for at least another year or so.
The R&D to create an incremental upgrade model doesn't happen overnight. This is not the days of the genesis or N64. Any hardware revision creates new points of faliure that need to be monitiored.
Xbox as a brand maybe moving to a platform, but as a piece of hardware we wont be getting there just yet.
Personally I think its the former and as such means very little for at least another year or so.
The R&D to create an incremental upgrade model doesn't happen overnight. This is not the days of the genesis or N64. Any hardware revision creates new points of faliure that need to be monitiored.
Xbox as a brand maybe moving to a platform, but as a piece of hardware we wont be getting there just yet.
NullPointer
Member
There's nothing stagnating about the consoles.
I doubt I'll be thinking stagnation when playing Uncharted 4, as well as other games to come down the line this gen.
I doubt I'll be thinking stagnation when playing Uncharted 4, as well as other games to come down the line this gen.
You are misreading it then. A PC is not a console.
I'm not sure they are doing any of this for Xbox, it's all about what's good for Windows. Nadella took over the company in early 2014 and that summer he said he was glad to have Xbox to go after the mobile gaming opportunity, where mobile means the experience goes with you across screens. Last year he said he put Xbox in the Windows team to help drive consumer preferences for Windows.
My point is that I think this was going to happen regardless of how Xbox did. Think back to the first Xbox and how it was meant to fight off Sony in the living room because they thought it would eventually threaten Windows on the desktop. Now the battle for Windows relevance has moved from a single device to multiple devices.
From the article...
The Surface team (now the Microsoft Hardware team) got the Xbox hardware last summer and all of their hardware has multiple performance options. I think it's safe to say this is happening, but I think something this year is too early and 2017 is more likely.
You really can't compare this with PC gaming. We're not talking about buying some extra RAM or slotting in a new SSD or buying a new card, we're talking about replacing an entire piece of hardware with another one.
Oh I know, and they'll find that audience with PC, not with new console owners looking to "upgrade" their existing consoles. Like I said, it's a great play to get a much larger audience then the Xbox brand could ever hope to do.
I buy a console because I want to be able to play the theing for 5yrs+. I don't want to upgrade every year or two, I don't to mess about with settings to get a game able to run. But then that is just me I don't speak for other "people".
Graphics Horse
Member
He's taking spefically about xbox one. He also talks about it happening inside a generation, which might imply there would still be a brand new generation later on, but I kinda doubt that.
Gamers already shell out $60 for a game that performs worse than other versions for the same price. The Xbox One is considerably weaker than the Playstation 4, and yet people are willing to purchase 3rd party titles on the Xbox One. Both the Playstation 4 and Xbox One are considerable weaker than the theoretical height of PC power, and people are still willing to purchase 3rd party titles on consoles - not to mention the fact that PC software is often cheaper. When new consoles are released, people purchase 3rd party titles on the previous generation (PS3 & Xbox 360) despite those games being inferior as fuck at the same price.
But you don't have to upgrade. You can still keep it for 5 years.
Darkstorne
Member
Which is a pretty good indication this isn't how it will work. I'll be amazed if it applies to the Xbox One at all. However, if future Xbox consoles are essentially Steamboxes for the Windows 10 store, designed specifically for ease of use with hardware (ie: A GPU slot, an HDD slot, an SSD slot) and updates/drivers to said hardware are all automagic (like Nvidia allows today), then this could work out well for them. The cost falls on the consumer, and not on Microsoft. The base hardware is as powerful as the competition's, but gamers who love graphics and/or 60fps have the option of dropping more money on their console down the line to improve the experience. It's providing a reason to consider their console over the competition's, not forcing people to upgrade every 2 years or so.
So long as the base hardware is the guideline for development (and it will be if it more or less matches the PlayStation 5, because developers will want to support both platforms) then you'll see games listed like this:
1080p 30fps on PS5 and Xbox Boogaloo.
Windows 10 and upgraded Xbox Boogaloo users have advanced graphics settings unlocked for higher framerates, larger resolutions, and extra visual effects.
The absolute closest comparison is smartphones.
Generally you can play any app/game on any device. But if you have a newer device it will run those games better
Samurai G0SU
Member
3 or 4 year cycle with back-compat. every iteratiion showcasing their 1st party improvements from the previous one.
tbh im kinda ready to move into the next gen, this one feels like a placeholder. Maybe im waiting for that 4k jump. lolololololololololol /dream
edit:
- closest comparison is the what exactly phil said.
-People upgrade their phones every 3-6 months!! did people forget leasing/paytoOwn programs all major us carriers adopted? There is no way they will sell a console for $20 bucks a month. Want to know more about the cell phone industry? the Carrier buys those phones from the manufacture (apple/samsung/etc) AND then they then sell a service for people to use that phone on. Following up by looping them into a contract or lease for that device they sold them so they can make up that cost and profit. lol /reality
please stop comparing mobile world to game console world. please?
tbh im kinda ready to move into the next gen, this one feels like a placeholder. Maybe im waiting for that 4k jump. lolololololololololol /dream
edit:
- closest comparison is the what exactly phil said.
-People upgrade their phones every 3-6 months!! did people forget leasing/paytoOwn programs all major us carriers adopted? There is no way they will sell a console for $20 bucks a month. Want to know more about the cell phone industry? the Carrier buys those phones from the manufacture (apple/samsung/etc) AND then they then sell a service for people to use that phone on. Following up by looping them into a contract or lease for that device they sold them so they can make up that cost and profit. lol /reality
please stop comparing mobile world to game console world. please?
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
If they announce a new Xbox One at E3 I think the backlash will be similar to the reaction that Mattrick got.
link1201
Member
I agree from what I read he says " a generation" not necessarily this one. It is curious why he mentions it at all though, testing the waters perhaps?
There is nothing in his statements which states that this wouldn't still be the case. You wouldn't have to pick settings for each game, the game knows the hardware it runs on and adjusts accordingly. Heck, with all those progressive renderers now it would be even easier to account for more horse power.
I disagree. I've been bored of home consoles the past 7 years or so and I think they need to evolve like phones did with smart phones (don't want to compare this situation to phones but I just mean the level of jump in tech/ideas). Not saying that this is the right way to go though.
You are not getting what I am saying.
How do you know they're not going to move towards a modular design? "The Xbox One could see a future in which it is upgraded, rather than replaced by new consoles" is not a statement that suggests that they'll be simply reworking the current platform methodology into a hastened state.
People are already shelling out $60 for the inferior versions of many games today. (PS4 and XBO vs. PC)
The benefit though, is that if you upgrade your console all your games get upgraded as a result!
ZombieSupaStar
Member
Yep turns out it wasn't Sony and the living room but apple and mobile devices (android too). And
Imo they waaaaay missed the party on that one (thanks Ballmer!).
maquiladora
Member
This got me.
MilkyJoe
Member
Don't be a nay sayer, it'd obviously still work, just at lower graphics setting or resolution.
Then as I said before that will be fine game wise. But wbat happens when the the apps etc on the older versions? Do they start to run like shit ? (As they reach their last update) I was simply stating not all people want to upgrade every year.
MarineMountie
Member
If they actually go through with this, i see it as the death blow to the XBOX brand.
1. How many people are going to upgrade their console every year?
2. If people were wanting to upgrade their console every year they would own a PC.
3. What does this do for developers? Are they basically going to be making 3 versions now instead of 2 (pc and console)? Will the price of games go up due to this fact?
4. Will Microsoft fragment their own player base by adding peripherals that only work with a certain upgraded xbox?
I just dont see it. Consoles are there for a reason. That reason is people dont want to mess with a PC. Upgrading parts, drivers, etc...
I own a PS4 and PC. I love console gaming for what it is. Simple, couch sitting game play in the living room. My PC gets a lot of play as well but im one of those guys that love technology and upgrading hardware. We will see i guess.
Obliterator
Member
Yeah the fact the Surface Tean is now in charge of Xbox Hardware is pretty interesting
You still need a new Xbox to do that. It would be impossible to do that to a current XB1 (adding components to make the existing box more powerful).
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
A product generation lasts as long as a product isnt replaced by its successor.
Just because he was referring to Xbox one, still doesnt suggest its something that will happen any time soon. It may be at the end of the traditional 5 year cycle, the Xbox one moves to a modular device that can be upgraded every year or so. So its both techincally a next gen console and a continuation of the current gen.
gaming_noob
Member
Possibly, although not too soon. They shouldn't release anything new until the tech takes a leap and is cost effective, late 2017/18. You're not getting a $400 box worth a damn performance wise to make an upgrade worth it, let alone cool and power efficient enough. Microsoft will keep those priorities.
Stick to an Xbox One Slim in the near future and take their time.
SneakersSO
Member
Yes, they do that because they can resell an Xbox One or PS4 immediately, since they are the bleeding edge in their respective fields; there is no higher-end product that devalues it. Take a look at how fast used PS3 prices dropped once the PS4 was announced, much less once it went on sale.
The moment a newer console is introduced, it immediately & significantly devalues its prior iteration. A faster iterated console generation will not change that.
So what is Microsoft saying? From the stories I'm reading it sounds like two possibilities:
1) Microsoft is opening up Xbox to be more like PC, which would turn it into essentially a Microsoft HTPC. Does "hardware upgrades" mean it'll be like an Alienware Alpha and you'll potentially be able to install a new GPU somewhere down the line? Will you be able to bring up the Windows desktop on an Xbox?
2) Microsoft is making it more like iOS devices and simply turning Xbox into another UWP form factor to go along with Surface and whatnot. If this is true then the only two main changes I see happening are we get new Xbox models more often and you'll be able to play potentially any Xbox game on any Windows 10 PC.
So we're thinking 2 is the most likely thing right? That makes the most sense to me. Microsoft still get's to control its console but gives it more flexibility.
I'm gonna go ahead and say it: There really isn't that much core difference between a console and an iPhone in terms of how they're set up. They are both closed platforms on fixed hardware. They both use licensing to control what software can run on them. There are only two major differences between say, an Xbox and an iPhone: a) The input method, and b) Apple exercises a lot less control over what software get's licensed. The fact that Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo still rely heavily on physical media to deliver the data is a smaller difference.
The main thing I see people here afraid of are how developers will react. With all the different iOS models, game developers typically support the most popular models while providing features that take advantage of the high-end ones. That's why you see iOS games that support three different "generations" of the operating system and the hardware. Those games typically run well enough on the older popular models but run excellently on the new ones. Games that only support the latest iOS devices are rare. Sometimes a game might reach a new version that will drop support for the oldest generation of hardware or the OS that it used to support, but that game doesn't become unplayable for people on that hardware, those users simply stop receiving updates. This is how I see it playing out on Xbox if developers and publishers are smart.
They're not gonna make a game that runs at 15fps on the baseline Xbox One or something. It'll be just like current Xbox One games, except they might have more visual effects and better AA on the Xbox One+, or perhaps even run at 60. Eventually if there's a third upgraded model that might be the equivalent of a full generational leap from the original Xbox One (like the difference between an iPhone 4 and iPhone 6). A game might come out that supports all three but runs at 900p30 on the original Xbox One if a high percentage of players still use that model. Eventually a fourth model might come out and games then might stop supporting the first one.
The issue here is that console users are still caught up in the idea that they can easily buy a simple machine they know will play cutting-edge games, but we've reached a point where having the same living room box for five years and being cutting-edge are mutually exclusive. If you wanna stick with one box for four or five years you'll probably still be able to do that, but you have to accept that you're settling for mid-range gaming.
Oh, and the only really bad thing about how Apple handles upgrades is how it releases new OS versions that run like shit on older models. That and the fact that iOS developers can't lock a game out of older models (they can only display a suggestion for the minimum hardware model on the store page). If Microsoft can avoid releasing Windows 10 updates that run like shit on the original Xbox One, and allow developers to just lock out the original Xbox One four years from now when it's too old, then I think that'll go a long way towards relieving frustration.
1) Microsoft is opening up Xbox to be more like PC, which would turn it into essentially a Microsoft HTPC. Does "hardware upgrades" mean it'll be like an Alienware Alpha and you'll potentially be able to install a new GPU somewhere down the line? Will you be able to bring up the Windows desktop on an Xbox?
2) Microsoft is making it more like iOS devices and simply turning Xbox into another UWP form factor to go along with Surface and whatnot. If this is true then the only two main changes I see happening are we get new Xbox models more often and you'll be able to play potentially any Xbox game on any Windows 10 PC.
So we're thinking 2 is the most likely thing right? That makes the most sense to me. Microsoft still get's to control its console but gives it more flexibility.
I'm gonna go ahead and say it: There really isn't that much core difference between a console and an iPhone in terms of how they're set up. They are both closed platforms on fixed hardware. They both use licensing to control what software can run on them. There are only two major differences between say, an Xbox and an iPhone: a) The input method, and b) Apple exercises a lot less control over what software get's licensed. The fact that Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo still rely heavily on physical media to deliver the data is a smaller difference.
The main thing I see people here afraid of are how developers will react. With all the different iOS models, game developers typically support the most popular models while providing features that take advantage of the high-end ones. That's why you see iOS games that support three different "generations" of the operating system and the hardware. Those games typically run well enough on the older popular models but run excellently on the new ones. Games that only support the latest iOS devices are rare. Sometimes a game might reach a new version that will drop support for the oldest generation of hardware or the OS that it used to support, but that game doesn't become unplayable for people on that hardware, those users simply stop receiving updates. This is how I see it playing out on Xbox if developers and publishers are smart.
They're not gonna make a game that runs at 15fps on the baseline Xbox One or something. It'll be just like current Xbox One games, except they might have more visual effects and better AA on the Xbox One+, or perhaps even run at 60. Eventually if there's a third upgraded model that might be the equivalent of a full generational leap from the original Xbox One (like the difference between an iPhone 4 and iPhone 6). A game might come out that supports all three but runs at 900p30 on the original Xbox One if a high percentage of players still use that model. Eventually a fourth model might come out and games then might stop supporting the first one.
The issue here is that console users are still caught up in the idea that they can easily buy a simple machine they know will play cutting-edge games, but we've reached a point where having the same living room box for five years and being cutting-edge are mutually exclusive. If you wanna stick with one box for four or five years you'll probably still be able to do that, but you have to accept that you're settling for mid-range gaming.
Oh, and the only really bad thing about how Apple handles upgrades is how it releases new OS versions that run like shit on older models. That and the fact that iOS developers can't lock a game out of older models (they can only display a suggestion for the minimum hardware model on the store page). If Microsoft can avoid releasing Windows 10 updates that run like shit on the original Xbox One, and allow developers to just lock out the original Xbox One four years from now when it's too old, then I think that'll go a long way towards relieving frustration.
Graphics Horse
Member
Seems so. That's what forwards compatibility is.
The idea is to stay 'current' in the console space.
Usually, you buy in and are set for 7+ years knowing that your platform has the complete, undivided attention from lots of console developers.
If it's already lagging behind and catching shitty ports two years in, that's going to be a problem for some. It devalues the purchase.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
But you wouldn't have to. Interchangeable performance based on hardware is a lot like independent resolutions on the laptop/smartphone/desktop space. Shit scales beautifully, and most of the time you dont have to change settings or whatever.
this is really awesome. I hope Microsoft nails it. I would love to have a console that can evolve. with the same easy and plug and play, and future proof setup, not rendering my game library useless or having to rebuy them later on a different ecosystem.
And if I, as a PC gamer, have more interplay between my PC and the console, then I am even more for it. Console should be an accessory to my pc. enhancing it. Like a peripheral.
Trogdor1123
Member
Don't they already do this? More storage, faster HDDs, hardware revisions, etc? Also, doesn't this simply admit the cloud doesn't work?
I don't see the point of ms turning the Xbox into a graphics card (essentially) myself.
I don't see the point of ms turning the Xbox into a graphics card (essentially) myself.
Yeah. Under the semantic layers here, lies something pretty momentous: microsoft's exit strategy from Xbox to Windows. Not a dramatic shelf pull but a slow transformation of existing boxes to Windows PCs and a orderly wind down of the native Xbox platform as a going concern for devs. That's my bet anyway, they'll do it over a few years.
Obliterator
Member
Nah GameStop has been taking in systems at cost or really high trade for upgrades a lot this generation. For example a couple months ago they were taking 3DS trade ins for about $10 less than they sell it for. They likely are getting subsidies in some form or another by console manufacturers. The same sort of system would likely be in place for this potential outcome.
Whilst I don't totally agree with you there, there is definitely an exciting thing about getting something a bit newer and shinier
And whose to say that won't come? We're already over two years into a new console generation. Unless they're going to drop a bomb shell with a "new" Xbox One this upcoming year or the next - then there's nothing particularly noteworthy about releasing a new console after four years that has backwards compatibility.
Jacksinthe
Banned
How will that change, though?
If they sell upgrades every and are fully BC then I don't see the problem.
You also wouldn't have to mess with settings. Why? Put in a game disk and let the software dictate the best performance if they are all closed boxes.
XBOne? Stock
XBTwo? Enable X
XBThree? Enable X and Y
Etc
I highly doubt plug and play would be an oversight.
No publisher or dev on earth will sell their new AAA game for less than $60 no matter the version of Xbox its running on.
Everyone will pay the same price even on cheaper hardware.
How console only people react to that is a whole other thing though.
Darkstorne
Member
Now imagine that your console worked EXACTLY like it already does, with the addition that every two or three years you have the OPTION of buying a new GPU for it that you simply slot into the side of the box. Your 1080p 30fps games now typically run at 60fps after the first upgrade. The second upgrade, four years after launch, allows for 1440p 60fps gaming, or 4k 30fps gaming. Or you can choose to stick with what you have at 1080p 30fps.
Does that kill the Xbox brand? Or does it simply provide another reason to consider buying the Xbox over the competition's offerings? Because I'm pretty sure that's all they're going for here.