Microsoft unifying PC/XB1 platforms, Phil implies Xbox moving to incremental upgrades
- Thread starter dancrane212
- Start date
Ah, now you are making a whole lot more sense to me.....not really.
So you are talking 3rd party titles here.....
How many games do you buy + play per year? Are you seriously saying that yearly hardware upgrades would be worth it to play 3rd party games at optimal specs?
Please check out PC-gaming (this is coming from a console gamer)
There are very few console exclusives, so most devs are already developing for a huge range of pc hardware, so I don't really see what your point is. Especially when MS is now releasing former exclusives on PC.
If there really are devs who only want to develop for console, then that's cool, work for Sony and Nintendo. Eventually y'all might have to learn about developing for different hardware specs though if Sony or Nintendo go in similar directions. If you can't handle the psychology of buying a "lower tier product, go buy a Sony or Nintendo console. This mentality makes virtually no sense given the existence of high end gaming pcs though, imo.
This same argument can be made for people who buy many other tech devices considering there are always "new device" rumors. Some people either don't see them, or simply don't care and feel that what's available now would be sufficient.
SolicitorPirate
Member
Really glad to see MS take such a divergent approach. It'll be interesting to see how an incremental approach fares in real life conditions.
Krisprolls
Banned
So you think they'll kill Steam ? Good luck then I guess.
They tried twice and failed miserably with Games for Windows and W8 Store, but yeah maybe this time it will be different
Market doesn't care how much they spent in gaming, they bought PS4 as consoles and chose Steam on PC.
Behold. This is what it looks like when someone actually understands the magnitude of Microsoft's fuck up.
Yes, PlayStation has more brand equity worldwide but Microsoft clearly made some inroads with the Xbox 360. To say they didn't is just delusional. In countries like the UK and Australia, the Xbox 360 has proven to be extremely popular. The issue is that Microsoft's huge fuckup put them straight back to square one with them making the PS4 the default choice.
Crayon
Member
soul creator
Member
as long as everything's taken care of to make compatibility as convenient as possible, I don't really see any issues with the "upgrade every couple years" model.
I've always thought it was about time to move away from the "release completely brand new incompatible hardware every few years and start from scratch" aspect of console gaming. Development tools and interfaces seem to be mature and standardized enough nowadays to make this reasonably possible.
The whole "console exclusive hardcoded to take advantage of every ounce of hardware power, and requires extensive work to port anywhere else" seems to have already gone out of style anyway. And developers are already largely making PC versions of their games, so it's not like the whole idea of testing compatibility between versions is a completely foreign concept. It'd be extra work obviously, but 2-3 versions of an Xbox One that are active on the market is still way fewer than the thousands of PC configurations.
I've always thought it was about time to move away from the "release completely brand new incompatible hardware every few years and start from scratch" aspect of console gaming. Development tools and interfaces seem to be mature and standardized enough nowadays to make this reasonably possible.
The whole "console exclusive hardcoded to take advantage of every ounce of hardware power, and requires extensive work to port anywhere else" seems to have already gone out of style anyway. And developers are already largely making PC versions of their games, so it's not like the whole idea of testing compatibility between versions is a completely foreign concept. It'd be extra work obviously, but 2-3 versions of an Xbox One that are active on the market is still way fewer than the thousands of PC configurations.
old manatee
Banned
The good news is that XBONE users will be able to run Microsoft Word now. The bad news is that they will have to type on this:
Why would they develop for consoles if they aren't guaranteed those? Why would consumers buy consoles if they're tiered just like PCs? If the Steambox-type machine worked as a business model, Valve would already be market leader in that regard.
Yes, but I wouldn't classify those people as average consumers.
I don't see how any of that means they were going to be given their own division. And if back then all it took to convince you that the Xbox had a bright future were a few statements from Ballmer, then I don't see what your problem is today. Nadella's no different. He's made plenty of statements over the past couple of years.
Mentions Kinect, but says "years of zero 1st party exclusives" when that's not true (since you know, MS made games for Kinect -- as well sequels to their top selling core gaming franchises too).
There were always many games to play on the system. You not being interested in them is a different story. And if anything, Xbox brand's current position would be worse without Xbox 360 Kinect since the device gave the system a pretty huge boost during late years of the previous gen.
Overall, Xbox never has a shot at being a huge global brand as long as Sony isn't making major mistakes.
Bitch Pudding
Member
This is not how management decision making in international corporations works. They don't look at what they spent money on in the past. They only look in the future. They don't spent a single dime on a project which they deem not profitable in the forseeable future nor strategic important. That said, the last one might save XBOX as a brand, but not the money spent for it in the past.
We're seeing it already with Rise of the Tomb Raider, Gears of War Ultimate and the upcoming Quantum Break. Given those releases we have every right to be skeptical.
- PC gamers are getting shafted by forcing them into a console-like closed system. Windows UWP and its restrictions (mods, injectors) have already been well documented here and elsewhere online. Gears of War Ultimate is missing crucial PC features like 21:9 support and its launch has been a disaster.
- Console gamers would get such a short end of the stick that there'd be no reason to own a console anymore. Why buy an Xbox One when you're basically getting a cut down Windows 10 box, and then spend $400-$500 upgrading it later on? Meanwhile, all the exclusives you want to play are also on PC which has a far better price/performance ratio and can be upgraded peacemeal when you feel the need.
The only people this idea makes sense to is Microsoft.
- PC gamers are getting shafted by forcing them into a console-like closed system. Windows UWP and its restrictions (mods, injectors) have already been well documented here and elsewhere online. Gears of War Ultimate is missing crucial PC features like 21:9 support and its launch has been a disaster.
- Console gamers would get such a short end of the stick that there'd be no reason to own a console anymore. Why buy an Xbox One when you're basically getting a cut down Windows 10 box, and then spend $400-$500 upgrading it later on? Meanwhile, all the exclusives you want to play are also on PC which has a far better price/performance ratio and can be upgraded peacemeal when you feel the need.
The only people this idea makes sense to is Microsoft.
I think it's safe to agree that the next Xbox will not be a traditional console given what they've said thus far.
As I've said before in response to your predictions, we have no idea how far Microsoft is willing to go to make the Windows Store a success and it's safe to assume they're not going to give up on it in the next few years at the very least. We're not talking about a scrappy start up trying to make a splash in the OS market. We're talking about a behemoth who wants to keep one of their three main pillars of business relevant.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
Causation = correlation.
Gears of War Ultimate Edition is shit. So everything else must be shit. Don't jump to conclusions.
No. This is drawing lines in the sand on what a console should, and shouldn't be.
Same thing with Xbox in the past. Same arguments, different goal posts.
It is fear mongering. Simple as that. And the idea that xbox games would be unoptimized for every ideration of the machine. I don't buy it. If there would come a new graphics technology, every 3 or 4 years I imagine an xbox would see perhaps 2 or 3 upgrades.
Because most gamers read reviews, people who can't upgrade wouldn't buy a version that runs poorly on their inferior version. Not many bought the latest COD on Xbox 360 for example.
theoretically, the scaleback should be easier with the same architecture and just the graphics solution changing.
Intel have just come out and said that they are not going to introduce anymore powerful CPUs in theforseeable future. Which means we might be 5-10 years out before a technological twist that greatly enhances CPU performance. So we're only in GPU gains. A MxM or USB-C, or thunderbolt 2 type connector of external graphics with its own power source could be a likely solution. Or a swappable MxM laptop style card designed for small enclousures.
Where did I talk about devs who only develop for console? Completely off the mark. The whole reason consoles are still viable is because they offer a standardized experience. Take that away, and all you have left is a closed-platform PC.
I remember when people said Microsoft was afraid Sony would use its dominance to turn PlayStation into a full-blown closed computer for your living room, I think that was a misjudgment of what each company has been after. Microsoft was always after making things that run software, Sony was always after making home media players, and Nintendo was always after making toys.
That said, I still don't see how this constitutes an exit from consoles.
From what I can tell:
--There will still be Xbox consoles.
--There will still be Xbox games.
--Xbox will still be a closed, plug & play system.
If what I'm reading is right and Microsoft isn't opening up the Xbox, then using an Xbox One will still be no more complicated than it is now. You'll still just hook it up, turn it on, download some updates, and play games. The only difference is you'll eventually have a few more options for what kind of Xbox One you want to get, and it technically won't have any more exclusives compared to PC. That's still a huge difference from PC. You still won't have to worry about drivers, graphics settings, or the difference between AMD processors and Nvidia processors. It's just that instead of choosing one box (or between two if you count the PS4), you might reach a point where you have three or four to choose from with slight differences.
People who use phones and don't know shit about console games deal with this just fine. They just pick a model that works for them. I think in the end this move with Xbox will only piss off some of the most enthusiast console gamers who actually give a shit about framerate and resolution. Everyone else buying Xbox will just... pick the model that works for them and be fine with that.
You can't play Steam games on it!
Microsoft finally figured out how to sell PC's where you're forced to buy games from their store. Lol.
The good news is that XBONE users will be able to run Microsoft Word now. The bad news is that they will have to type on this:
Lmao
old manatee
Banned
From the perspective of a long-time PC gamer, it's like watching your ex drunkenly beg you to take them back. It's sort of satisfying, but you also just want it to be over as quickly as possible.
There are very few console exclusives, so most devs are already developing for a huge range of pc hardware, so I don't really see what your point is. Especially when MS is now releasing former exclusives on PC.
If there really are devs who only want to develop for console, then that's cool, work for Sony and Nintendo. Eventually y'all might have to learn about developing for different hardware specs though if Sony or Nintendo go in similar directions. If you can't handle the psychology of buying a "lower tier product, go buy a Sony or Nintendo console. This mentality makes virtually no sense given the existence of high end gaming pcs though, imo.
Things don't stay the same forever. Devs will adapt. Valve isn't actually making any hardware other than a controller and a streaming box, if they were making a living room pc I imagine it probably would be the market leader. It's an apples and oranges comparison. Valves OS is also garbage in comparison to Windows 10 in terms of games it supports, performance, and other functionality.
Xbox-branded PCs basically.
I'm actually impressed Phil is moving so quickly to exit the console business in an orderly fashion. Xbox One has been a disaster but they aren't letting it weigh them down. The real question is how relevant does gaming become for MS in general outside the space they originally entered the market for.
I'm actually impressed Phil is moving so quickly to exit the console business in an orderly fashion. Xbox One has been a disaster but they aren't letting it weigh them down. The real question is how relevant does gaming become for MS in general outside the space they originally entered the market for.
??? -- No. Both platforms can coexist. One doesn't have to and/or need to kill the other.
They tried twice and failed miserably with Games for Windows and W8 Store, but yeah maybe this time it will be different
You say this as if they are going for the exact same plan as those two previous times.
This is a very shortsighted view. There are many with Xboxes too who continue on giving a lot of money to MS. PS4 being #1 isn't stopping that. Business isn't console wars.
"Welp. We aren't #1 -- Let's completely stop providing services and games to the millions of people who are giving us money!"
They originally entered it because they thought Sony's dominance in the living room would become a threat to Windows on the desktop.
It's always been about Windows and their moves as of recent cement the idea that it's still about Windows.
It is questionalble if this makes sense from a business perspective:
- higher software dev costs (pls read what a game designer has written in this thread)
- higher R&D costs
- more items for retail = more shelf space
- split userbase
- GAF might go for it, but there is no evidence that the majority will follow
I'm reading the 'you are not forced to upgrade' argument for the 100th time in this thread. Let me ask: what if mainstream gamers don't work that way. If tomorrow Xbox 2 is released, a day one XboxOne owner might say 'fuck, this I will never buy a console on day one again'. A semi-hardcore gamer knows that consoles are released with a pretty limited library. So waiting a year or so for the amount of games to ramp up will have the extra benefit of getting a more powerfull iteration of the same console. If I end up being right, this could totally destroy their console business, because it is all about building up a userbase very quickly and if people start to play the waiting-game it's over.
Krisprolls
Banned
I disagree. Xbox was ahead of its time in online gaming. All they had to do on top of that is copying what Sony did, opening studios and making 1st party exclusives rain. They were getting good mind share globally with Halo, Gears... They just had to push more games.
Sony never did anything special to be successful. Just years after years with some great 1st party games. But they never stopped the flow. Never changed direction.
Xbox did that too some years, but not at the end of Xbox 360, and not enough overall. Too much focus on Kinect / tv / media shit. They lost focus too many times.
It's a question that needs to be asked. What the hell is a console if it walks like a PC, talks like one, has the same innards, same business model? Why not buy a PC at that point? How is bringing that up fear mongering? You confuse me.
We're getting an early taste and it's a bad one. Add to that all the past history with Games for Windows Live and the Windows 8 store front, and here we are.
That's plenty of reason for skepticism.
Pretty sure it was more that they thought the living room would supersede the desktop. A notion that is now dead and buried.
What?
This isn't the future I would want. I'd rather all gaming just converge to PCs or a single platform, rather than a tiered console model. No one is under any illusions consoles will last forever and I'm not sure where you're getting that idea or why you're pushing this narrative.
You said why would they develop for console if they weren't guaranteed standardized specs? Why do they develop for PC when there aren't standards? I'm fairly certain if there were millions of improved Xboxs on the market devs would make sure it runs. Maybe MS just gets AMD to support the Xbox with their Crimson drivers, and then any pc game would work on xbox, so pc devs wouldn't really be doing good any extra work for Xbox? My understanding is that there isn't much work as it is to go from PC to Xbox or PS4, because of x86.
There's nothing to misjudge. Read this.
Bill Gates approached Sony to use Windows in PS2 and flew into a fit of rage when he was turned down.
But it's always been about a front to fight for Windows. Now they're taking Xbox to focus on the additional fronts where they are seeing the long-term, larger threats to Windows from Android and iOS.
The good news is that XBONE users will be able to run Microsoft Word now. The bad news is that they will have to type on this:
It certainly ain't optimal, but I actually like that little chat pad.
Krisprolls
Banned
You forget MS is a huge corp, gaming never mattered that much for them. Their money is elsewhere, B2B services mostly.
Gaming is even less relevant for them now that Xbox isn't even that big anymore.
Corps don't stay in a business without a reason.
I think we're just misunderstanding each other lol. I fully assume at some point future Xbox hardware from MS will fully support any Windows game. It seemed like you were pushing consoles with all your talk about standardized experiences.
I think future Xbox hardware will have full windows support, probably similar to Alienware alpha but hopefully better pricing and hardware. They will have some sort of Xbox mode like big picture but better, and will have exclusives limited to their store. Maybe will still have Xbox live but offer better games each month.
It seems like third party games will all be made under the same base to work on the various "current" Xbox machines while MS 1st party games/exclusives will have different versions and/or shine more on the more powerful Xbox hardware.
Therefore, casual and more mainstream audiences will still receive a home console like experience for an acceptable price while the more hardcore gamers will go for the more expensive/powerful options.
I'm seeing this as adding more options to console gaming instead of completely moving away from what many people like about gaming consoles (simplicity, convinience, not having to worry about upgrading in less than 4 years, etc.).
See Sydle's post.
This sounds to me like MS has pretty much given up on the XBOX and is just attempting to broaden the market for games already in production, I can't see how fragmenting your market with PC like incremental upgrades is going to drive people to your platform. It just sounds very back of a cigarette packet planning.
Unless someone can explain it to me, please?
Unless someone can explain it to me, please?
Portugeezer
Member
Owners of first gen XB1's will no longer feel like first class gamers.
Bitch Pudding
Member
Well, Android, iOS and Windows phone co-exist, so maybe you're right.
Following Jack Welsh, you shoud either be #1 or #2 on the market (if you're a diversified corporation like GE, that is). Thing is, I believe Windows store is far away from being #2 when it comes to full-prized games.
ChosenPredator
Banned
I always thought they'd end up being services nintendo/ps/xbox eventually
Bear Force One
Banned
Well
This is a way of admitting that xbox will never be a global brand and walking away while saving face so I see it as a net positive to shareholders.
This is a way of admitting that xbox will never be a global brand and walking away while saving face so I see it as a net positive to shareholders.
You don't really seem to understand the selling point of a standardized experience. It's one of the primary reasons consoles have lasted as long as they have.
I talk about it because that's one of the only things keeping consoles relevant. If that goes away the value proposition for buying one goes through the floor.
SneakersSO
Member
No, you don't, hence the problems many PC releases see. At best, you code for specific manufacturers, and hope that most of their more recent and older processors can handle some of the features you've incorporated into your renderer & your memory mangament system. At best, you'll work with manufacturers (like Nvidia) to have a day 1 driver issued on the day of your game's launch. But it's hard to predict what issues will arrive in certain configurations, whether its the manufacturer of the RAM, the motherboard that all the components are housed onto, or some other unforeseen issue that do arise.
On console, its far more predictable, but there are many conceits that are made on the hardware side on a console that we don't necessarily deal with on PC, at least not in the same way. So at the very least, you have a new development pipeline you will have to build and support, which means a brand new version of the game that needs to be fully tested to ensure solid QA. That means there will be unique issues that platform sees that none of the others do.
Add to all of that the shared consumers that the Xbox ecosystem would have, and most publishers will most likely just pick the one that is closest to its rival ecosystem in terms of specs & install base, and just stick to supporting that one.