If you're talking about castle doctrine, that's not how it works. Minnesota isn't even a strict castle doctrine state, regardless.
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Minnesota man who killed teens in break-in charged with murder
- Thread starter The Culture Vulture
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If you're talking about castle doctrine, that's not how it works. Minnesota isn't even a strict castle doctrine state, regardless.
I think that's why he said should unless i'm mistaken.
Let's not... go there please. People tend to like Canadians on this board, let's not tarnish that rep.
I think he said "should" without considering any of the other completely insane implications of the statement.
Hey man you come in to our country we can do ANYTHING we want to you.
shinobi602
Member
Sounds like a nutter.
Yea, I found that strange.
It's basic human nature. If someone breaks into your home, it's a bit hasty to just shoot them but it's also completely stupid to ask them whether or not them mean you any harm or not. I think he COULD have pulled the gun on them and threatened them rather than just shooting them (initially of course) but at the same time, I don't think he's required to do that. They broke into his home, he doesn't know what they have or how many people are trespassing. More often than not it makes sense to just act. Otherwise, you could be putting yourself and your family in danger.
This could go horribly wrong of course but it's realistic. Some kid broke into a friends house as a joke a few months ago and got shot in the head as a result. He lived I believe but still.
I don't know, I doubt she found her situation humorous, but I can see someone letting out a stressed/nervous/momentarily relieved chuckle when (1) you're pretty sure you're going to die and then (2) the gun runs out of ammo.
Indrid Cold1
Member
What an evil old cunt! He straight up murdered them. I an a staunch admirer of the American right to self defence but no rational person could condone the actions of this individual.
Goldrusher
Member
It's in every single action movie.
Hero shoots a villain, misses and/or runs out of bullets, villain laughs.
:/
Yeah I'm all for killing somebody if they break into your home if your life is threatened, but this taking it a little too far.
This guy is sick. Sounds like one of those wackos who sit around their whole lives just waiting for something like this to happen, so that they can show the world that they aren't to be fucked with.
I was half expecting him to tell the investigators how he shit in their mouths and pissed on the corpses.
This guy is sick. Sounds like one of those wackos who sit around their whole lives just waiting for something like this to happen, so that they can show the world that they aren't to be fucked with.
I was half expecting him to tell the investigators how he shit in their mouths and pissed on the corpses.
fastford58
Member
By the time you figure it out it might be too late.
Dude that did the executions was not right, and hopefully will be punished accordingly. Also, don't break into houses when people are home.
If someone is breaking in to my house when someone is home (and it is always obvious when I am home, even in the middle of the night), they are probably willing to have a confrontation, or are at least aware that it can happen. I'm not going to give them the chance to hurt me or my family because of the off chance that they were robbers with good intentions.
Of course, there are things you must take into account in these situations. Angles of fire depending on where family members are, backstops and the like. There are factors in my domicile that would prevent me from just flying around a corner, guns blazing. If I confront an intruder or intruders (as is most often the case), and they run for the door, then they get to leave, no harm no foul. If they stay despite aggressive confrontation, then the continuum of force moves to a new level. This decision can literally take less than a second or two and you never want to use lethal force on anyone (at least I don't).
You may disagree, and that is fine. Armed or unarmed, you roll the dice in these situations anyway.
Also, this has been a fairly level headed conversation so far. I'm impressed. Was there a clamp down on emotional arguing surrounding these types of things lately?
jadedm17
Member
https://www.facebook.com/RipNickBradyHaileKifer
They broke into someone's home to steal, why are we having a memorial for them? smh
Also, that Facebook page is entertaining : Its like a YouTube comments section but I can see everyone's face.
They broke into someone's home to steal, why are we having a memorial for them? smh
Clearly, but I can't say I don't sometimes feel zero sympathy for when harm comes to those doing bad things. With how horrible people are in this world I can't imagine not wanting to inflict severe pain on someone who broke into my home to take what I earned.
Also, that Facebook page is entertaining : Its like a YouTube comments section but I can see everyone's face.
Hey GAF, help me understand why people mourn the deaths of their friends and family even when the deceased did something bad.
Amakusa
Member
Because some people still look at age over anything else, they broke into a crazy mans house, Crazy man shoots them both and kills them. If they were 35 years old.. it wouldn't even make the papers.
hydragonwarrior
Member
I don't think a gun should be used to express pent up rage.
I mean, the part where Kifel laughed? I can only imagine the old guy getting upset enough to kill her in cold blood like that, in his mind going "Laugh at this!"
Either way, this is one of the reasons why you don't sneak into houses - especially those of (probably senile/crazy) old people.
I mean, the part where Kifel laughed? I can only imagine the old guy getting upset enough to kill her in cold blood like that, in his mind going "Laugh at this!"
Either way, this is one of the reasons why you don't sneak into houses - especially those of (probably senile/crazy) old people.
The first shots were legit. At that point he didn't know if they were dangerous and had the jump on them so he took the shots. The kill shots were not legit. They had just been shot and fallen down a flight of stairs at that point. He had a gun pointed at them. He was in no danger.
He decided to kill them instead of calling the police after they were both incapacitated. That's his crime.
What's up with the terrible juniors? Robbing a house shouldn't be ground to be executed like an animal. Jail, for sure.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Surprised he's ending up with two murder charges. The first one is tragic, but I don't see how he can be charge with murder. He shot the guy, and then shot him again. he could have had a gun, or something else. I don't see premeditation in the 2nd shot. The second person though, after having missed he had time to see that she was no longer a threat, and the act of going to get another gun and finish the job is certainly murder, there was no reason for further force in the girls case.
It's a tragic outcome, but the homeowners don't know that the person just wants to steal their shit without incident. I don't fault homeowners for shooting intruders. People break in, there are consequences. In this case though, the second shooting was clearly over the line of just defending oneself.
It's a tragic outcome, but the homeowners don't know that the person just wants to steal their shit without incident. I don't fault homeowners for shooting intruders. People break in, there are consequences. In this case though, the second shooting was clearly over the line of just defending oneself.
No, it was straight up murder.
Kids? Oh whatever dude.
They were 17 and 18. Old enough to know that you shouldn't break into peoples homes. Now, he went too far with the straight-up executions but I wouldn't cry no tears over them getting shot. Fuck them and fuck this guy.
It fails pretty much every litmus test regarding justifiable homicide, starting with not having called the cops for over a day.
He did inflict severe pain on them by shooting them in the legs. The pain stopped when he shot them in the head.
It's actually pretty fishy to be honest. Yeah protecting your stuff is one thing but going to the point where he all out unloads on them?
Multiple break-ins sure, but after you hit them with a shot it's a hit the fucking ground or you're gonna get hit again. On top of that the next person walked down to get shot too?
This sounds like more stuff than we know happened.
I agree protecting is one thing. Unloading your weapons on someone after they incapacitated is entirely something else. Of course this also makes me wonder about something else.
When you guys down there have a sign that says "Trespassers will be shot on sight". What do you do with the wounded exactly?
Multiple break-ins sure, but after you hit them with a shot it's a hit the fucking ground or you're gonna get hit again. On top of that the next person walked down to get shot too?
This sounds like more stuff than we know happened.
I agree protecting is one thing. Unloading your weapons on someone after they incapacitated is entirely something else. Of course this also makes me wonder about something else.
When you guys down there have a sign that says "Trespassers will be shot on sight". What do you do with the wounded exactly?
Buddha Beam
Banned
This is one of those stories where it's kind of hard to feel sympathy for any of the involved parties.
I guess I can understand the old man's actions though. It's scary as hell just finding you've been robbed, furthermore them being in those house with you at the same time. Especially if its been happening over and over for several years. It's one of those situations where the adrenaline goes into over drive and you aren't thinking so much as you are acting on impulse.
I guess I can understand the old man's actions though. It's scary as hell just finding you've been robbed, furthermore them being in those house with you at the same time. Especially if its been happening over and over for several years. It's one of those situations where the adrenaline goes into over drive and you aren't thinking so much as you are acting on impulse.
why does it matter if it's a girl?
Zeouterlimits
Member
I am horrified that people are defending him.
He murdered them. Brutally.
He murdered them. Brutally.
After multiple break in's to his home...let's have people constantly coming into your house and see how you react.
Uncle0wnage
Member
They didn't keep one jump ahead of the breadline or one swing ahead of the sword.
But seriously, this old man murdered those poor, yet dumb, kids.
But seriously, this old man murdered those poor, yet dumb, kids.
SteveWinwood
Member
Was on the radio all day. Sad story.
He's getting charged with second degree murder IIRC.
He's getting charged with second degree murder IIRC.
He is not charged with premeditated murder. He shot two incapacitated people in the head. That is always murder, no matter the circumstances.
ultrazilla
Gold Member
Break into someone's home, expect bad things to happen.
After reading even a few of those comments, I need brain bleach now. I also want off this planet.
Zeouterlimits
Member
By executing people?
Monstrous, horrible stuff. If he can't behave in any way rationally as he demonstrated then he shouldn't have access to a gun.
This isn't a case of accidently killing an intruder while defending yourself and your home. It's brutal, sick murder.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
This is always such a weird rationale to me, because it can be extrapolated to basically anything, since it doesn't provice any qualifiers.
"He was shot by a fellow driver? Make an illegal lane change, expect bad things to happen"
Seems to be an even split between "you're a hater they were amazing people" and "the wages of sin are death"
Gross.
I still don't see why this isn't standard everywhere.
Yes, to an extent. While I'm appalled that people are so bold to break into others' homes, I think that you can stop firing your gun once the threat is removed. I get that this guy probably felt threatened and sick and tired of being victimized, but he went a step too far.
There's a problem with laws in our society regarding self defense in your own home. Many people have inflicted injury on robbers only to be sued by the assailant and lost. It perpetuates that idea that you're better off killing the invader so that he can't sue you. But then stuff like this happens, and it's clear that he didn't need to kill them to end the threat.
But do we know what was going on in his head? Maybe the repeated intrusion into his home broke him mentally and he just had a psychotic break and killed these two. Maybe he was fearing retribution if he let them survive. Maybe he was hoping for this day to come and was happy to have the chance to kill them. We don't know, and whatever he admits to or refuses to clarify will be debated anyway.
They shouldn't have been in his home, obviously, and he shouldn't have kept shooting once they were down, but how in the world can we say he was sound of mind in that very moment? It's tough to call him a monster based on the possibility that he could have just snapped due to circumstances he didn't create. I'm going to take a wild guess and say that his defense leans on this either way.
How do you handle failures upon re-evaluation?
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