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MLB 2014 Postseason |OT| Where Chokes Happen™

Dominican Power

Dominican Power

Member
brianjones said:
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That really doesn't apply to the choke artists that are The Doyers. The Nats deserve to be ridiculued too.
 
L

Little Green Yoda

Member
aFIGurANT said:
That was a shitty reward for a solid start out of my real-life-inspired avatar.

I'm probably not going to relive the whole thing by reading back in the thread but did anyone else from Cards-GAF think Waino maybe should have faced the Giants for a fourth time through the order tonight?
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I missed most of the game, but I'm going to say that would've been a bad idea. We know he's not completely healthy and we know pitchers generally get less effective with each pass through the lineup. Pulling him is the right call. Sucks about Neshek not getting it done. Going to a Wacha (who hasn't pitched in a game in weeks) in a tied elimination game sounds like a terrible idea.
 
A

aFIGurANT

Member
Little Green Yoda said:
I missed most of the game, but I'm going to say that would've been a bad idea. We know he's not completely healthy and we know pitchers generally get less effective with each pass through the lineup. Pulling him is the right call. Sucks about Neshek not getting it done. Going to a Wacha (who hasn't pitched in a game in weeks) in a tied elimination game sounds like a terrible idea.
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Splits on 4th time through the order favored the pitcher this season. And I think the pen was a crap shoot with everyone pitching two days straight.

Wacha over anyone but Choate was the nail though. That's just asking to ruin a young guy's development to boot. I have faith he'll bounce back next year but if he follows the Siegrist mold at all, then fuck.

Also grats to the giants for finally finding the long ball. Your runs weren't cheap tonight so I'll sleep better.
 
L

lazybones18

Banned
Oakland
Detroit
St. Louis
San Francisco

Hey Cardinals. Go Fuck Yourself. KC, use everything in your power to destroy the Giants and end this even-year nonsense
 
BFIB

BFIB

Member
XiaNaphryz said:
Matheny on using Rosenthal: “We can’t bring him in in a tie-game situation. We’re on the road.”
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Again, he's a great leader when it comes to handling the mindset of the young players, and bringing them to the major league level. Its his in game decisions that are fucking terrible.

"We can't bring him in in a tie-game situation." Are you fucking kidding me? Your on the brink of elimination, if that isn't a "game saving" situation, I don't know what is.

Then, he defends Choate to no end after his game 3 debacle, and even brings him in the next night, to better results. So what does he do? Brings in Wacha, who hasn't even pitched to live hitters in about 3 weeks. When you have two lefties coming up.

I know the Cards aren't going to make a move. Mo is going to stick with Matheny. And that's fine, despite his terrible in game managing, he's gotten good results. But they need to do two things: show Mabry the door, and bring in someone, a Zimmer type to help guide the ship and be in his ear on those late game situations, until he figures it out.
 
C

Carpe Libertatem

Member
XiaNaphryz said:
Matheny on using Rosenthal: “We can’t bring him in in a tie-game situation. We’re on the road.”
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The dumbest thing about this is that he used Rosenthal on the road earlier in the season AND had Rosenthal bat for himself (with man on I think) in order to use him for more than one inning because it was going extras

e: oh nevermind, that was apparently at home. still maybe the dumbest thing I've seen
 
L

Little Green Yoda

Member
nemss said:
Then, he defends Choate to no end after his game 3 debacle, and even brings him in the next night, to better results. So what does he do? Brings in Wacha, who hasn't even pitched to live hitters in about 3 weeks. When you have two lefties coming up.
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The Wacha decision is whack and he should have been pulled when he walked Belt. But not going to Choate is understandable. Drastic splits make him a pure LOOGY and you know Bochy was going to PH with a RHB. Would've been nice to have another arm on the roster. Even Freeman or Lyons or Greenwood. But nope, gotta play with a 23 man roster.

Pulling Shelby early and not winning Game 4 totally screwed the bullpen options for Game 5.
 
BFIB

BFIB

Member
Little Green Yoda said:
The Wacha decision is whack and he should have been pulled when he walked Belt. But not going to Choate is understandable. Drastic splits make him a pure LOOGY and you know Bochy was going to PH with a RHB. Would've been nice to have another arm on the roster. Even Freeman or Lyons or Greenwood. But nope, gotta play with a 23 man roster.

Pulling Shelby early and not winning Game 4 totally screwed the bullpen options for Game 5.
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Our bullpen went from a big plus to a big minus at a pretty fast rate. But still, Wacha served no purpose to be on the postseason roster. Molina should have also been removed.

And those fall on the GM. Plenty of blame to go around after this one. This team needs some true veteran leadership to put Matheny in his place when he starts Mathenyging.
 
A

aFIGurANT

Member
Little Green Yoda said:
Even Freeman or Lyons or Greenwood. But nope, gotta play with a 23 man roster.
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Any of these guys would have made way more sense. The thing that I think is the worst, though, is putting Wacha into the highest leverage situation possible after not pitching for three weeks. Throw him out there in game 1 when we're clearly getting stomped into the ground by MadBum if you have any intention of seeing him pitch in the series. Matheny threw Bochy so many bones it's not even funny.

brianjones said:
you don't play to tie on the road

its pretty standard practice
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It is standard but it represents the classic mold of something that should and could change. It's sort of like Yost putting Herrera in in the sixth on Wednesday. If guys' roles are so strict that you can't fathom putting them out there unless you've met conditions that are impossible without putting them out there in the first place (there's no lead coming the STL way without your best option putting up a zero in B9), you've got a problem.

Edit: and Yost going to Herrera early was an example of good managing, I should point out. You don't lose with your subpar guys on the mound and your best throwing warmups.
 
B

brianjones

Member
aFIGurANT said:
It is standard but it represents the classic mold of something that should and could change. It's sort of like Yost putting Herrera in in the sixth on Wednesday. If guys' roles are so strict that you can't fathom putting them out there unless you've met conditions that are impossible without putting them out there in the first place (there's no lead coming the STL way without your best option putting up a zero in B9), you've got a problem.

Edit: and Yost going to Herrera early was an example of good managing, I should point out. You don't lose with your subpar guys on the mound and your best throwing warmups.
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the question becomes if you put your closer out there to hold a tie who do you look to close if you get the lead?

the same people who blew the tie in the first place..
 
X

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
A

aFIGurANT

Member
brianjones said:
the question becomes if you put your closer out there to hold a tie who do you look to close if you get the lead?

the same people who blew the tie in the first place..
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Yeah that's where the convention has some merit, but ideally you take a lead in the tenth and Rosie can pitch two innings. If not you hopefully don't manage like a dolt and are able to cobble three outs together out of everyone in the pen but Neshek and Rosie.
 
BFIB

BFIB

Member
brianjones said:
the question becomes if you put your closer out there to hold a tie who do you look to close if you get the lead?

the same people who blew the tie in the first place..
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If your talking about a tie game in May, I get that. But when your talking a tie game when you lose, you go home is something else.
 
K

kris.

Banned
Askani said:
Hell yes he his. His story makes this year all the sweeter.
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yeah, his first visit was right around when i finally started paying attention to the Royals this season. his story is so amazing and the fact that KC is embracing him makes me love this city so much more.
 
BFIB

BFIB

Member
Matheny: Putting Wacha in that situation is on me.

Well, I certainly hope he takes some lessons away from this series. I know hindsight is 50/50, but he's been "shooting from the hip" with these types of decisions for a while. His stubbornness and refusal to know when to take a guy off the mound has to be addressed. I like Matheny, and I think he's going to be a terrific manager, but Wacha should have never even gotten a whiff of that game, or any game since he wasn't used at all in the NLDS, or up to that point in the NLCS.
 
BFIB

BFIB

Member
brianjones said:
I'm not saying wacha was the best option but I understand the logic
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Even if you take away Rosenthal, there's other options to use. In a situation like that, Wacha should not be an option, especially since he apparently hadn't even thrown a BP session since leaving St. Louis, which leads to a whole other discussion about why he was even on the roster in the first place.

Just really dumb decisions all around, and its frustrating, because 3 of those games the Cards had in hand with a real chance to win.
 
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