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[17 Seconds]

i laughed when the sign flipped

 

[CygnusXS]

Fans in the stadium must be so confused

 

[ProjectPick]

Fans in the stadium must be so confused

The best fans in baseball are never confused.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

all rhetoric and the bfib effect

it's a good thing BBWAA voters often vote out because of rhetoric!

 

[zulux21]

yankees lose - check
Giants lose - check
cubs lose - pending.

hopefully we can have the perfect start to the season and make all three of those statements true. (sadly this means the cards will win but alas one of the cubs or the cards will have to win, so would rather have the cards win)

 

[17 Seconds]

it's a good thing BBWAA voters often vote out because of rhetoric!

and we all know the bbwaa voters are notoriously competent

 

[MonkeyMan29]

So what are the biggest things you have against Yadi in terms of being in the Hall?

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

and we all know the bbwaa voters are notoriously competent

They're the ones who vote in players to the HoF, though!

Fwiw, I think it largely depends on Yadi's next four years. He doesn't need to be a superstar (and won't be), but if he averages ~2-2.5 WAR per year with a couple Gold Gloves I think he's in when you consider that WAR doesn't count pitch framing/game calling (I think Baseball Prospectus does the former, tho?)

HoF voters have been pretty anti-catcher in the past. More should be in the Hall than there are

 

[17 Seconds]

So what are the biggest things you have against Yadi in terms of being in the Hall?

everything that is quantifiable suggests that he is not a hall of fame catcher. the only arguments in favor of it are all intangible things that fans of a particular player are likely to be biased about. there's also a big confirmation bias, because national media loves writing about athletes like these, and baseball media in particular is still very behind the times.

 

[17 Seconds]

They're the ones who vote in players to the HoF, though!

Fwiw, I think it largely depends on Yadi's next four years. He doesn't need to be a superstar (and won't be), but if he averages ~2-2.5 WAR per year with a couple Gold Gloves I think he's in when you consider that WAR doesn't count pitch framing/game calling (I think Baseball Prospectus does the former, tho?)

HoF voters have been pretty anti-catcher in the past. More should be in the Hall than there are

i'm not saying he for sure won't make it (it wouldn't surprise me at all), just that he doesn't really deserve it, and certainly isn't the sure thing that they were talking about earlier in the game. great player though.

 

[MonkeyMan29]

everything that is quantifiable suggests that he is not a hall of fame catcher. the only arguments in favor of it are all intangible things that fans of a particular player are likely to be biased about. there's also a big confirmation bias, because national media loves writing about athletes like these, and baseball media in particular is still very behind the times.

I can understand that, and I see where you're coming from. Those intangibles are his strengths though, and they're incredible. The number of times that pitchers leave the Cardinals and simply collapse is astounding, He's part of the reason.

Just last year, Alex Reyes who was called up to the majors early, while he's an incredible talent, I feel he wouldn't have done as well without Yadi behind the plate.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

I can understand that, and I see where you're coming from. Those intangibles are his strengths though, and they're incredible. The number of times that pitchers leave the Cardinals and simply collapse is astounding, He's part of the reason.

Just last year, Alex Reyes who was called up to the majors early, while he's an incredible talent, I feel he wouldn't have done as well without Yadi behind the plate.

I wouldn't say a lot of pitchers "collapse" upon leaving the Cardinals. Some maybe take a step back, others are fine (Shelby Miller before being traded to Dbacks)

Performance with Yadi vs. performance w/o Yaid, though, is pretty clear (but that could very well just be small sample stuff)

 

[Frozenprince]

I wouldn't say a lot of pitchers "collapse" upon leaving the Cardinals. Some maybe take a step back, others are fine (Shelby Miller before being traded to Dbacks)

Performance with Yadi vs. performance w/o Yaid, though, is pretty clear (but that could very well just be small sample stuff)

I mean it's hard not to have a tick down when you go from a certifiably elite framer to, in most cases, an average at best one.

Pitch framing is super important (and I don't think the valuations we have for it now are representative enough for it).

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

I mean it's hard not to have a tick down when you go from a certifiably elite framer to, in most cases, an average at best one.

Pitch framing is super important (and I don't think the valuations we have for it now are representative enough for it).

Yep, same with game calling

Holy shit Mike Matheny is using *platoon advantage*

edit: holy shit Grichuk walked. This Is The Year

edit2: matheny should've pinch hit for CMart, but don't think there are many (if any) managers who would pitch hit for a pitcher who is rolling along with 6IP 0R 9K. I expect him to be taken out next inning though.

 

[chicagocubsfan]

Koji time

 

[Grover Cleveland]

Koji in a Cubs uni doesn't feel right

 

[Frozenprince]

If Martinez can control his change like this all year he might be a top-5 pitcher in baseball.

Has everything else.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

Matheny you have two really good lefthanders in the bullpen why would you go to Oh over them against Schwarber

edit: he's in the cleanup spot too what the fuck Matheny you have no idea how double switches work

 

[17 Seconds]

it's completely and totally irrelevant, but it always annoys me that a batter doesn't get credit for a walk if ball 4 hits him

 

[Frozenprince]

And this, boys and girls, is why anybody who tells you managers aren't important in baseball is a liar.

 

[17 Seconds]

that 5 out save on opening day

 

[Frozenprince]

that 5 out save on opening day

After leaving his starter in an inning too long.

 

[chicagocubsfan]

What a waste

 

[zulux21]

And this, boys and girls, is why anybody who tells you managers aren't important in baseball is a liar.

yup the managers in here would have went with a lefty and maybe would have given up a run.

instead they got out of it without giving up one

but yeah, joking aside, you shouldn't push your closer early in the season. it's better to share the load.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

After leaving his starter in an inning too long.

and with 2 (!) really good lefthanders in the bullpen to face a guy who has pretty extreme splits!

his "bad process good results" infuriates me because he never learns from anything. Oh is fine for a 5 out save but no reason to push him 30+ pitches on opening day

 

[Frozenprince]

and with 2 (!) really good lefthanders in the bullpen to face a guy who has pretty extreme splits!

his "bad process good results" infuriates me because he never learns from anything

Dude.

My team is managed by Terry Collins, someone the SABR people ranked 30th in baseball.

This is a very familiar pain. Then your BP is burnt by June and your starters are on fumes by late August and everybody is wondering why.

 

[Line_HTX]

Late, but how bout that Bumgarner wasted start?

;P

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

Dude.

My team is managed by Terry Collins, someone the SABR people ranked 30th in baseball.

This is a very familiar pain. Then your BP is burnt by June and your starters are on fumes by late August and everybody is wondering why.

forget robot umps, we need robot managers

 

[Doogdogg]

Yo Cubbies, score 1 run, this need to go into extras.

 

[17 Seconds]

forget robot umps, we need robot managers

have all managerial decisions voted on by fans while in-game. that's the future.

 

[Dishwalla]

Bah.

 

[chicagocubsfan]

Strop blows at Busch haha. He knows it too.

 

[Doogdogg]

Fuck off Strop.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

have all managerial decisions voted on by fans while in-game. that's the future.

the only thing that could be worse than Matheny as manager would be decisions crowdsourced by the BFIBs

 

[Frozenprince]

the only thing that could be worse than Matheny as manager would be decisions crowdsourced by the BFIBs

"Have Waino pitch"

"It's 2035"

 

[17 Seconds]

espn just had to put bartman in that fucking commercial

 

[Choomp]

Uh oh

 

[17 Seconds]

wow

 

[Dishwalla]

Holy shit.

 

[Grover Cleveland]

Contreras beat the game

 

[Chris R]

lol Cards

and that was an E3 not a hit

 

[Frozenprince]

Hue hue hueeeee

 

[clemenx]

Woooo 20 inning Opening Day game lets go

 

[chicagocubsfan]

Holy fuck

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

Impulse is to blame Matheny, but Marp should've had the out

 

[Doogdogg]

EXTRAS EXTRAS

 

[Frozenprince]

Sheeeit almost like leaving your closer in for a 5 out save on OD is fucking duuuuuumb, especially after the E3.

 

[17 Seconds]

before the home run i was almost content with just making Oh throw nearly 40 pitches

 

[Choomp]

This has been a pretty great first day of baseball, actually

 

[Frozenprince]

Matheny does realize that there are more games than just this one left, yes?