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[Joe]

even though baseball is pretty much considered dog crap on the bottom of the GAF shoe i think this deserves its own thread.

we are living through a period of baseball that will forever be mentioned, and it'll blow your grandkids minds you tell them some of the games biggest stars EVER had to testify in front of the united states government.

calling on the games biggest names, congress has subpoenaed the following baseball players to testify on march 17th (televised on c-span):

-jason giambi
-sammy sosa
-curt schilling
-mark mcgwire
-frank thomas
-rafael palmeiro
-jose canseco

while i think its unfair to baseball for congress to be doing this i really hope this pushes MLB to put into place a world standard steroid and human growth hormone policy.

one question really sticks out in my mind though. what happens when UNDER OATH, jose canseco says YES mark mcgwire did take steroids, and then mark mcgwire also under oath says he did not. i hope that happens just so i can see the shit hit the fan (same goes for palmeiro).

 

[FrenchMovieTheme]

why is it unfair to baseball? if these bitches took steroids they should be publically embarrassed and exposed for the frauds they were.

i know steroids dont help your hand-eye coordination, but that's not the point. the point is, whether the pussies at the top of MLB wanted it for years or not, steroids and performance enhancing drugs are bush league. i dont care whether they "were legal" for a time or any of that shit, common sense says have some respect for your teammates, your opponent and the game of baseball and dont take steroids.

this is going to be sweet dudes!

 

[Joe]

if theres a steroid problem in baseball, theres a steroid problem in football too.

why is congress targeting baseball and not football and/or US olympic athletes?

 

[Willco]

Palmeiro is going to sue the living fuck out of Canseco after all of this. I hope he does too. Raffy is a pretty standup guy.

 

[Eminem]

i'll still watch and love baseball as i always have, but every major hitting record set in the last 10 years will always be unofficial to me.
whether they ever prove it or not(and they won't), this cloud of doubt will forever be hanging over this era's head.

 

[FrenchMovieTheme]

why is congress targeting baseball and not football and/or US olympic athletes?

gee lets see

1. football players are tested year round at random times
2. football players have been suspended anywhere from 4 games to "indefinitely" for using banned substances
3. you will do yourself much greater harm using steroids in football than in baseball (injury wise)

anyways, football is americas new passtime and is far more popular than baseball. no one dares to attack it

 

[WedgeX]

if theres a steroid problem in baseball, theres a steroid problem in football too.

why is congress targeting baseball and not football and/or US olympic athletes?

In addition to what FrenchMovieTheme said, Baseball also enjoys protection from certain anti-trust acts, and is thus subject to Congressional oversight from time to time.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

gee lets see

1. football players are tested year round at random times
2. football players have been suspended anywhere from 4 games to "indefinitely" for using banned substances
3. you will do yourself much greater harm using steroids in football than in baseball (injury wise)

anyways, football is americas new passtime and is far more popular than baseball. no one dares to attack it

Yup! NFL Commish has balls, unlike Bud Selig. NFL is the best sport now, suck it up and live with it

 

[Joe]

gee lets see

1. football players are tested year round at random times
2. football players have been suspended anywhere from 4 games to "indefinitely" for using banned substances
3. you will do yourself much greater harm using steroids in football than in baseball (injury wise)

anyways, football is americas new passtime and is far more popular than baseball. no one dares to attack it

1. the new mlb policy calls for the same year round, random testing.
2. the public humiliation that a player would experience for getting caught failing a test in baseball is probably worse than any game suspension (for most players). when football players get caught failing steroid tests it ends up being a tiny 1 line blurb at the end of a "news and notes" article.

 

[Eminem]

1. the new mlb policy calls for the same year round, random testing.
2. the public humiliation that a player would experience for getting caught failing a test in baseball is probably worse than any game suspension (for most players). when football players get caught failing steroid tests it ends up being a tiny 1 line blurb at the end of a "news and notes" article.

1.) this is coming only AFTER the scandal took place. This holds absolutely NO significance now. NONE. Where was this policy and the dumbass Union 10 years ago?
2.) It's a tiny blurb in football because there are 30 different guys playing crucial minutes in each game. One guy gets 4 games, that's a fourth of the season. In baseball players play both ways. When have you ever seen a baseball player suspended for 40 games? Yeah, that's right.
You fail a test in the NFL, you're out 4 games. A fourth of the season. You fail a test in the Majors last year? Doesn't matter, because it's anonymous. Even now, no single player is going to miss 40 games of the season for testing positive. It's that simple.

Baseball and baseball's union let this happen. Fuck 'em.

 

[ocelittle]

Palmeiro is going to sue the living fuck out of Canseco after all of this. I hope he does too. Raffy is a pretty standup guy.

It's the viagra.

 

[Joe]

i know the mlb policy is laughable and the nfl is obviously in better shape especially with drug testing. i just think congress should be focusing on all sports not just baseball.

in my opinion, i think if you test positive in baseball you should be banned for 81 games, and get caught twice you should be suspended 162 games and every positive test after that is another 162 games.

 

[FrenchMovieTheme]

1. the new mlb policy calls for the same year round, random testing.

Wow, the NFL has had this policy for years. Good going baseball! and what is the penalty for failing?

"You fail once, I say no biggie. You fail twice i say Hey now. you fail 5 times i MIGHT suspend you for a game. You fail 25 times you get a one game suspension (paid of course). You fail 162 times and you get a 3 game suspension WITHOUT PAY for those 3 games! I'm putting my foot down!"

what a fucking joke. the only reason selig and mlb are even instituting this policy isn't because they want to clean the game up, they truly dont give a shit. its just there has been such a public backlash that they had to do something. i put absolutely no faith in their testing policy.

2. the public humiliation that a player would experience for getting caught failing a test in baseball is probably worse than any game suspension (for most players). when football players get caught failing steroid tests it ends up being a tiny 1 line blurb at the end of a "news and notes" article.

lol!! so here is what you are saying:

1. baseball player gets caught. no need for suspension guys, he has suffered enough as it is.

2. football player gets caught. he gets suspended, but suffers no public humiliation. uh, why doesn't he?

 

[Willco]

Dude, you're pretty goddamn naive if you think it's prevalent in all professional sports. There are pretty good substance abuse policies in place in both the NFL and NBA, especially within the NFL. MLB is out of fucking control.

That said, the new steroid policy will ban them for an entire season if they're repeat offenders, Eminem.

 

[FrenchMovieTheme]

joe i agree about the suspensions. but a problem arises. baseball isn't exactly in the same league as the NFL when it comes to popularity and ratings etc. so lets say a major player on the yankees gets caught, gets suspended for 62 games, and the yanks miss the playoffs which means no one is watching. there is no way in hell the MLB would do that. they may have a "policy", but it will never mean shit in my opinion.

 

[Joe]

ny daily news is reporting that according to fbi sources mark mcgwire used steroids during the 90's.

also, jeremy giambi admitted to using steroids and he had this to say about jason's recent press conference:

"If you don't know what he's apologizing for," Jeremy Giambi said, "you must've been in a coma for two years."

 

[Ninja Scooter]

this entire era of baseball has been a sham. Roger Maris=Homerun king. I hope all these assholes are exposed as pathetic cheaters.

and for all the shit he got when the book first came out, Jose Canseco is looking on point like a mofo right about now.

 

[Shinobi]

Dude, you're pretty goddamn naive if you think it's prevalent in all professional sports. There are pretty good substance abuse policies in place in both the NFL and NBA, especially within the NFL. MLB is out of fucking control.

Er, come again? Did you or anyone else outside the loop know ANYTHING about Balco two years ago? Nope. You're naive as fuck if you think that's the only secret drug on the market. Hell, they found another one a couple months ago, which was on the verge of being distributed.

And look at amatuer athletes...they're tested far more then professionals, yet we still have drug scandals with some of the biggest stars in their respective sports. Hell, we've still got Lance Armstrong riding under a cloud.

And yeah, where are all the motherfuckers who were calling Canseco a clown a month ago? For three years now he's been telling this story and stuck to it, while others have been exposed for being full of shit. He's one of the few people who's actually happy to be called into testify, while MLB and the union are doing everything in their power to keep their players from doing so. :lol Even Bud Selig has no plans to attend, sending some underling on his behalf. Hey, I guess if the truth never leaves his lips, he won't be the one held up as being responsible for this mess. What a laugh. I just hope Canseco brings up Bush's name under oath so the fireworks can really get started...cause as much as I enjoy seeing the baseball people squirm a little, this is still nothing more then a politically-motivated witchunt. And I've got no time for that.

Oh yeah, tfunniest thing about the names on that list? No Barry Bonds. Guess that means he's innocent after all. :lol

 

[Scoobert]

That said, the new steroid policy will ban them for an entire season if they're repeat offenders, Eminem.

Yeah, get caught 4 times and you're out a season. What a joke! In the Olympics caught once and you're banned for 2 years, caught twice and you're out for life. All record and medals stripped from you.

You're just getting a slap on the wrist in baseball.

And don't bring up Armstrong. He's been tested more than anyone else. Only the haters say he's using steroids.

 

[Pimpwerx]

Schilling and Frank Thomas? Damn, is there any legit superstar in baseball? At least Bonds isn't on that list. He's innocent, bitches! PEACE.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Schilling and Frank Thomas? Damn, is there any legit superstar in baseball? At least Bonds isn't on that list. He's innocent, bitches! PEACE.

Schilling and Frank Thomas seem to be on the list because they'be been pretty outspoken AGAINST steroids. and Bonds is about as innocent as OJ.

 

[Agent Dormer]

If Schilling admits to steroids you can ban me for two whole weeks. No way that man has taken any. He's one of the most outspoken players in the MLB today about the steriod problem - that's why he's going to the hill. I have no problem vouching for a MLB player that was an EQ junkie also (along with being one of the best pitchers to play the game LEGIT, smoking juicers left and right!).

 

[Agent Dormer]

Schilling and Frank Thomas? Damn, is there any legit superstar in baseball? At least Bonds isn't on that list. He's innocent, bitches! PEACE.

Yeah right, Bonds isn't being called up because he's already named in the BLACO case. Bariod innocent? Man, just...

 

[Suranga3]

Kick those juiced up monkeys out. Professional sports should adopt an zero tolerance policy.

 

[Bat]

I think they're not gonna call up Bonds because they don't want to give him immunity (which they will be forced to give the rest of the players if they testify). Nothing would please the goverment more than bringing up perjury charges against Bonds for his grand jury testimony.

On one hand, this is really all a show to humiliate MLB. On the other, MLB deserves every bit of this and a ton more. The sport's been a joke for the last 15 years (at least) and it's about time that someone refused to turn a blind eye to it.

By the way, this is a huge black eye for the sports media. All baseball writers should be in shame for how piss poor they've done their job the past two decades. This was the most important thing going on in the game and they decided not to report this, even though they all knew how much roiding was going on. It's the equivalent of no one in the national media questioning the WMD threat leading up to the Iraq war.

EDIT- And if you want to know how far MLB has to go to be in line with the rest of the world, consider this: the IOC's policy is that any team that is found to have used a player using banned substances would have it's accomplishments erased. Imagine if MLB took away the A's 1989 World Series rings back? Or the Yankees 2003 ALCS banner? That's the norm that the MLB has to compare its substance policy with.

And don't bring up Armstrong. He's been tested more than anyone else. Only the haters say he's using steroids.

The problem with saying "now that there is a steroids policy, the sport's drug free" (as Bud Selig has done) is that doping is always two steps ahead of the testing. As was said before, Marion Jones and Tim Montomgrey have been tested dozens of times as well, and yet everyone is pretty sure they were doping when they made their Olympic bids. Now, I'm not saying Lance Armstrong is necessarily a steroid user as well, but the majority attitutde in the US that dismisses any steroid evidence short of a positive test as French jealousy or whatever is beyond idiotic.

Consider the following facts about cyclist X:

- several of his teammates, including a gold meddle winner at Athens 2004, have had either steroids, HGH, EPO, or traces of blood transfusions found in their steroid test
- has had a positive test for corticoid (banned substance) in 1999. Got off the hook by claiming it was from a skin ointment, despite the fact that he didn't report taking it before the test (all cyclists are required to report any medications they take)
-his former doctor (now awaiting a 12 month prison sentence) was one of the most infamous steroid distributor's in Europe
-former clients of said doctor have implicated the cyclist to doping, only to be immediately sued by him
- a book has been published detailing several pieces of circumstancial evidence linking the cyclist to steroids, including accounts from a former personal assistant of his

Once you remove the name and the survival story from the facts, it all becomes a litte more suspicious.

Now, this is all very circumstancial evidence. However, how is any of this and less convincing than what we knew about Barry Bonds 6 months ago? And hasn't a large porportion of the country for a couple of years now believed that Bonds has been juicing?

I suspect that if Armstrong competed in a sport that the national media actually understood and followed, against American competition, and wasn't a cancer survivor, the media wouldn't treat him with such kiddie gloves. For now, though, the possibility of foul play is only mentioned in passing, as it was for Mark McGwire in 98.

 

[Shinobi]

And don't bring up Armstrong. He's been tested more than anyone else. Only the haters say he's using steroids.

Funny, that's what Marion Jones says too. :lol Armstrong's name has to be brought up I'm afraid...that's just the way it is.

By the way, this is a huge black eye for the sports media. All baseball writers should be in shame for how piss poor they've done their job the past two decades. This was the most important thing going on in the game and they decided not to report this, even though they all knew how much roiding was going on. It's the equivalent of no one in the national media questioning the WMD threat leading up to the Iraq war.

Amen...it makes me sick seeing some of these smug asses like Mike Lupica getting all judgemental about the players who took 'roids and how long the problem's been going on, when anyone with a fucking clue could've sniffed this shit out a decade. Obviously most of 'em were too busy being fans of the game to want to bring it down. That and they didn't wanna make "the magical home run chase of '98!!" look like the farce that it is, while making themselves look like idiots for worshipping it.

 

[whytemyke]

Personally, I think all of these people who have admitted to and/or been caught using steroids (including McGwire now and Bonds) should be banned from baseball.

If they're going to keep Pete Rose out for compromising the integrity of the game, which I wholeheartedly agree with, then they have got to maintain the status quo and do the same thing here. These people are no better than Pete Rose, the only difference is that Rose's record is legitimate, and neither Bonds nor McGwire's places in the books is even a mark that should be shown to anyone.

You want to stop steroids in baseball? You ban Barry Bonds from baseball. Then just wait and see how quick these other fuckers clean up their acts. We'll be watching a game played by 180 lb men by next year.

PS: The comparison to Armstrong is a bit unfair... he's passed six steroid tests by French officials and regularly passes random ones. Most of these players have never even taken a legitimate test.

 

[Truelize]

Dude, you're pretty goddamn naive if you think it's prevalent in all professional sports. There are pretty good substance abuse policies in place in both the NFL and NBA, especially within the NFL. MLB is out of fucking control.

That said, the new steroid policy will ban them for an entire season if they're repeat offenders, Eminem.

Dude you're pretty freakin naive if you DON'T think it's prevalent in all professional sports. There might be substance abuse policies in place in the NFL and the NBA but there is no organization that can catch even half of what is used by athletes. The amount of "designer drugs" that are out there at this moment is pretty much mind blowing. There are also several very popular drugs being used that show little to no trace when tested even 24 hours after administration. Tests can be easily beaten. Very easily beaten.

Get over it people. Drugs have been in sports for decades now and they are not leaving anytime soon.

 

[Gregory]

Yeah, get caught 4 times and you're out a season. What a joke! In the Olympics caught once and you're banned for 2 years, caught twice and you're out for life. All record and medals stripped from you.

You're just getting a slap on the wrist in baseball.

And don't bring up Armstrong. He's been tested more than anyone else. Only the haters say he's using steroids.

It doesn`t have to be in the olympics, get caught during regular season and it`s the same. In any sport in Europe. American sports are a joke in comparison. Last time i heard, there`s not even tests done in many of the american sports.

 

[Shinobi]

Personally, I think all of these people who have admitted to and/or been caught using steroids (including McGwire now and Bonds) should be banned from baseball.

If they're going to keep Pete Rose out for compromising the integrity of the game, which I wholeheartedly agree with, then they have got to maintain the status quo and do the same thing here. These people are no better than Pete Rose, the only difference is that Rose's record is legitimate, and neither Bonds nor McGwire's places in the books is even a mark that should be shown to anyone.

You want to stop steroids in baseball? You ban Barry Bonds from baseball. Then just wait and see how quick these other fuckers clean up their acts. We'll be watching a game played by 180 lb men by next year.

PS: The comparison to Armstrong is a bit unfair... he's passed six steroid tests by French officials and regularly passes random ones. Most of these players have never even taken a legitimate test.

I only brought up Armstrong in saying that a steroid cloud the size of Mexico hangs over his head. It's a cloud so strong, a person wrote a book about it saying that Lance had his used syringes disposed of in a far off location by an assistant. In that sense, it's similiar to Canseco writing what he did. He was called everything from an opportunistic pig to a flat out liar. Well, those accusations aren't looking too hot now are they?

We can go on...Ben Johnson was accussed of using roids for two years by Lewis and others before he got caught. He passed all his prior tests. Hell, five of the eight runners in that '88 Seoul race have subsequently failed drug tests of some sort, and records show that Carl Lewis himself failed two steroid tests during the US trials BEFORE the Olympics. This news was uncovered and published by a newspaper over a year ago, where US Track and Field covered up 100 positive drug tests over the course of a few years. Nobody else followed up on it, and thus nobody cared.

My point is this. Armstrong might well be innocent. I'm not saying he's defintely guilty. But to dismiss the notion that he might be guilty is as foolish as the idiots who dismissed the notion that Bonds, McGuire, Sosa and others haven't been on something in the last ten years. The difference between Armstrong and those guys is that MLB didn't even specify that the use of steroids or similiar aids as a form of cheating until two years ago. So quite frankly, those ball players didn't cheat. All you could nail 'em for was illegally using steroids without a prescription.

That's why I believe going after the ballplayers makes zero sense...what the media, the fans and the witch hunters, er the government should be going after is Major League Baseball themselves. No way this shit was going on in a vacumn. FBI sources have already indicated that plenty of people that run the league knew what was going on, and decided to stick their heads in the sand. Those are the people who should be lambasted. Athletes taking advantage of something to give them an edge is a natural thing...happens all the time, and we cheer for that to happen as long as it helps our club. In that vein, commissioner Bud Selig sending an underling to take the stand on his behalf is an absolute joke.

As for Armstrong, don't feign surprise if he ever gets caught. I certainly don't want to see that...but then I didn't want to see Ben Johnson go down either. Shit happens.

 

[Joe]

under heavy pressure, selig said he would testify thursday in front of congress.

 

[Shinobi]

Heh, yeah I notice...I won't give him too much credit since he should've agreed to do so in the first place, but at least he's going.

 

[Joe]

10am est. on cspan, and i believe espn will be broadcasting it also but dont quote me on that.

hopefully i can catch it, if not im gonna have my all-in-wonder record it.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

my question is why the hell is our government spending money on THIS, send out the atf or dea and let them investigate do we really need a congressional hearing ?? Yeah steroids is a problem but so is crack and heroine.

 

[Agent Dormer]

Do they have enough opening speakers? Jeeze, get on with the show already.

 

[MrPing1000]

4 game ban? what a joke, got caught taking anything in football (soccer) and its usually 4-10months

 

[GashPrex]

wow, dr pellham is getting ROASTED

I feel kind of bad for him, looks like MLB and the lawyers used him are now sacraficing him on congress.

also, I wasn't 100% sure about congress getting involved but seeing these hearings, I am really glad they did.

Also, schilling is getting appointed to the anti-steriods commitee by congress

 

[Ninja Scooter]

damn McGuire's a wreck up there. And he still hasn't denied using roids. GUILTY!

edit: Big Mac's gonna pleed the 5th. He's full of shit.

 

[Joe]

im tuning in for the first time, this is crazy.

very surreal.

 

[Cloudy]

LMAO @ McGuire :lol

Schilling destroyed Canseco though :lol

 

[Ninja Scooter]

i wanted to see McGuire and Canseco have a roid rage fueled fight right in front of the house. THis is disappointing. I get the feeling they are gonna get softball questions too. McGuire comes out of this looking like shit though. He says he was advised not to deny, yet Frank Thomas, Sosa, and Palmiero had no problems denying it and doing it pretty adamently.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

hmmm, why did McGwire get a little extra choked up when he talked about other players' "Sexual preference"? I don't remember him ever playing on the Yankees?

"He better not name names..."

 

[Joe]

HEY HEY HEY NONE OF THAT NOW

 

[Teddman]

i'll still watch and love baseball as i always have, but every major hitting record set in the last 10 years will always be unofficial to me.
whether they ever prove it or not(and they won't), this cloud of doubt will forever be hanging over this era's head.

"this cloud of doubt" is here to stay. Steroids are always going to be a part of modern professional sports from here on out (and have been for more than the last 10 years). Testing methods will never be good enough to catch users, as masking methods and new types of steroids advance as fast or faster than the testing procedures.

 

[Cloudy]

Tedd, Sosa and Palmeiro denied under oath...

 

[Teddman]

Yeah, I edited out my comments about Sosa because it seems he has been implicated as well. Suspicions about him just haven't been covered by media as much as those about Bonds and McGuire.

 

[Loki]

hmmm, why did McGwire get a little extra choked up when he talked about other players' "Sexual preference"? I don't remember him ever playing on the Yankees?

"He better not name names..."

:lol

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Mark McGwire is the new Rasheed Wallace. "Im not here to discuss the past..."

 

[Cloudy]

Wow, Big-Mac is getting DESTROYED....

 

[Cloudy]

OMG, McGwire says "it's not for me to determine" when asked if using 'roids is cheating. Wow, he looks really bad :lol