Subpar Scrub
Banned
Yep. I'm trying to.
Although these types of threads sometimes frustrate the shit out of me, I feel like I do learn and understand a little more everytime I read them. So there's that I guess
MLK Day Protesters Block Traffic on the Bay Bridge
- Thread starter Dalek
- Start date
- Status
Yep. I'm trying to.
Although these types of threads sometimes frustrate the shit out of me, I feel like I do learn and understand a little more everytime I read them. So there's that I guess
Coffee Dog
Banned
no you don't understand, it's 2016, and that means that if he were around today mlk would be demoralized into inaction and passivity, like minorities are supposed to be
nothing honors mlk like disrupting as little as possible and hoping that problems fix themselves
I'm pretty sure Tesseract has a problem with protests and not specifically black people. It seems unfair to make that leap.
I don't see how concern over emergency services being disrupted is unreasonable. Ambulances and fire personnel rely on major US roads every single day to save lives, so let's not pretend it's a remote possibility. Just because "nothing bad has happened yet" makes it okay. It makes the protesters lucky. Something bad only has to happen once to change attitudes about this type of protest.
Right, imagine if a social service like the police wasn't functioning properly and people ended up dying!
Okay so far though, right?
A Link to the Past
Banned
Except you should? The fact that you may have done something once before does not mean that you shouldn't call it out. I probably have done or said something racist in my past, should this be taken to mean that I can't call it out when I see it?
The police have never been functioning and people die because of it. This wouldn't be anything new.
freeofgreed
Member
It's hard for people to grasp because...
It doesn't make any sense and is completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand. What does 2016 being "faster" have to do with why disruptive protests are less acceptable?
Yep. I'm trying to.
Although these types of threads sometimes frustrate the shit out of me, I feel like I do learn and understand a little more everytime I read them. So there's that I guess
Yes, they frustrate me too. And I probably went a little too hard on you.
I just hope people at least think of what needs to change and how history has shown us the way things have changed in the past. It is not easy. It is not pretty.
If they at least give that consideration while thinking about why blocked traffic bothers them than I shouldn't get so frustrated. I just hope that more Americans get on board with positive change.
The system is incredibly fragile if one road (even if it's a bridge) being blocked disrupts emergency services. Lesson would be to fix our transportation network and oh yeah, do something about the systemic racial injustice.
freeofgreed
Member
Attitudes about the protesters are already bad. So they're going to go from bad to bad???
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
You're right. After seeing how little things have improved in half a century he'd probably become much more aggressive.
ClayKavalier
Banned
If something did happen like someone died in an ambulance stuck due to the protest would the protestors all be held accountable? Or no one since there's so many people involved? Maybe just the people who planned the protest?
Who would be held responsible if an unarmed black American was killed by police? This is a question about something that has actually happened. Your question is hypothetical.
blame space
Banned
but then the protest would lose its immediacy
If a tree fell in front of the road, would the tree be held accountable. Maybe it's really the winds fault that the tree has to lie in the road in order for you to know it's plight.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
It's a valid question. Probably the organisers. Luckily, this has not happened and I'm still curious why it's the default "problem" with this.
BronsonLee
Member
Ay why do black people gotta be trees
You son of a bi-*gets chained to guardrail* fuck
Then guys like seat can go back to ignoring the issue.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Why you always so uppity?
freeofgreed
Member
Nobody??? If someone died in an ambulance, I'm pretty sure whatever put them there is what would be held accountable. If this actually happened it'd be ridiculous to blame the protesters as there's no guarantee that the person would've made it to the hospital in time otherwise or if the hospital would've even been able to save them.
BronsonLee
Member
Why you always so uppity?
My eyes just rolled so far into the back of my head that I can see the inside of my skull
Goddamnit Gordon
So you think there would have been no wrong-doing on their part that should be legally accounted for if their blockade delayed a patient from getting to a hospital and the patient died in traffic? For the sake of argument, lets say that the injury was of a nature that could have at least been treated with some significant amount of chance of survival if they were not delayed.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Definitely agreed on this, brother..
---
Are we still talking pretend emergencies? Amazing..
People have died in traffic in Belgium because of labor union road blockades, because the emergency vehicle couldn't get to the hospital.
Ever since then, I've been much less impressed by the importance of this type of protest. Don't block traffic.
SOURCE: http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/binnenland/1.2474776
Ever since then, I've been much less impressed by the importance of this type of protest. Don't block traffic.
SOURCE: http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/binnenland/1.2474776
I can only imagine how frustrating it would be to have a loved one be killed with no chance of anyone ever being held accountable
Clearly, you are inferring to the pervasive issues of police brutality, especially towards minorities. I agree 100%. It's disgusting and we need to have change from the root. That doesn't mean causing it to happen to others is acceptable.
ClayKavalier
Banned
Alright. I was just wondering what would happen.
Since tensions are understandably a little high, just to be clear I'm not saying protesters should be held accountable or that they're doing anything wrong. I'm just curious what the legal ramifications would be if one of these hypothetical situations actually happened.
Not completely sure but presumably in at least some cases doctors would able to say "Yeah, they could have been saved if they'd gotten here a few hours ago."
I hadn't thought of it before reading this thread, it is interesting to think about what the fairest way of handling the situation would be if it could be proved beyond a doubt that someone did die due to a peaceful protest.
Why, though, would white people ever give up power willingly?
I don't think people realize that a lot of the rights that black people have now were won in some really aggressive protests and riots in the 60's. It wasn't through altruism of the majority, at all.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Damn..
freeofgreed
Member
That would be ridiculous. A blockade like this would not disrupt an ambulance for any significant amount of time. Minutes at most. Also legally the protesters would in no way be held accountable. How would you even know if the person would have been able to have been saved if they weren't delayed? Also if a person had that kind of injury it'd be ridiculous to place any of the blame on protestors when it's clear that the injury was obviously the biggest contributing factor to that person's death.
That is absolutely true. I've only said that my concern was about the potential blockade of important services. I'm not worried about inconveniencing citizens and whatnot. We all have a line as far as how far disruptive protests should go. For me, blockading roads is on the side of being too far because of those potential situations.
No no no MLK (because he was the only one that exists, remember) sat down and had a pow wow with all the branches of government and they came to an agreement after one speech that segregation is wrong
freeofgreed
Member
In this case an ambulance wouldn't even need to cross this bridge. Had this had taken place in a general street getting a detour wouldn't be too difficult and I don't doubt that the protestors wouldn't let the ambulance though. A doctor can maybe predict hours, minutes tho? That's pushing it.
In the situation I posted, a replacement surgeon got stuck in traffic so he couldn't operate on an "emergency victim", after the previous surgeon had spent the entire night and was unable to continue operating. He arrived 45 minutes later than planned because of labor union blockades.
It's not just a hypothetical scenario, it can actually happen.
BearFlexington
Member
Occupy took over downtown Oakland. This allowed for people to show up in support. Thousands came and stayed and the event got international attention. In comparison, this seems like a stunt. Also, I doubt anyone gridlocked was feeling sympathetic to the cause at the time.
I'll add too that here in the Bay Area blocking traffic by walking on the freeway or for impromptu sideshows is not a rare occurrence so some might be a little sensitive to additionally prodding an already fucked up transportation system.
My point is: right cause, perhaps not the most strategic or positively impactful tactic.
I'll add too that here in the Bay Area blocking traffic by walking on the freeway or for impromptu sideshows is not a rare occurrence so some might be a little sensitive to additionally prodding an already fucked up transportation system.
My point is: right cause, perhaps not the most strategic or positively impactful tactic.
freeofgreed
Member
OMG lol you almost had me.
I got lucky. I had to drive across the bridge into the city shortly after 1pm. I didn't even know it had happened till I get a text from my girlfriend asking me if I had got stuck. I just went down the peninsula instead of back across. I'm so glad I didn't have to deal with this crap.
What makes you say that the blockade of traffic was only minutes? Is that a part of the report? That could be the case, but I don't think it is something that is obviously true. And if we assume to isolate the point that traffic was halted for a significant time, let's say an 2 hours, and the patient died in traffic, that there are many treatable injuries that have enough empirical evidence to be deemed treatable. I don't think it is a valid defense to say "Well, the person COULD have still died if he wasn't impeded to the hospital."
Let's use this as an example to further isolate the situation. I am at a park with a friend. We decide to walk up a hike and end up fairly isolated. My friend and I are attacked by a thief and my friend ends up getting stabbed. The thief runs away with my friend's phone. He needs immediate help. I am the only one that can call for help. Too bad for him, I am currently fixated on arguing in a thread on Neogaf. I put my need to argue on Neogaf over his well-being and refuse to find help or even call with my phone. After arguing for 2 hours, I call for help and my friend died from internal bleeding. The autopsy and doctor who called the time of death both rule that it is likely that my friend had a high chance of surviving if he had been treated more quickly. Should I be legally responsible for anything? Surely, the thief who stabbed him should be put to trial and pay for his crime, but what about me? Do I get to hide behind the fact that I didn't stab him or that there was still a chance that he could still die regardless?
Yes, I know this example is kind of goofy, but that doesn't change the point. My point is that one who plays a conscious role in preventing somebody from medical attention should have some level of accountability.
excelsiorlef
Member
I like having a healthy liver
freeofgreed
Member
Yeah ok I am done. The lengths you guys are going to create the ridiculous scenarios in order to vilify these protesters is ridiculous.
Crimson_Gold
Member
In the minds of many, the version they've created is the only good one.
One has to explain why the Oakland zoo will never getrare Chinese pandas. At any given time, every vetinarian in the US will be prevented from treating them because of protests like this.
Subpar Scrub
Banned
Gentleman Jack
Member
Are we still debating things that very obviously did not happen?
I don't understand this post?
Captin Quacker
Member
I would say we should make a bingo card for threads like these but it would be guaranteed bingo
and Two Words lemme know the second your thriller novel "A Series of Hypothetical Events" comes out
fuckin day one
and Two Words lemme know the second your thriller novel "A Series of Hypothetical Events" comes out
fuckin day one
- Status