TheKaeptain
Banned
Get on IRC yo.
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MMA |OT3| When you lose you're a can, when you win you're unstoppable.
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GungHo
Single-handedly caused Exxon-Mobil to sue FOX, start World War 3
If I could achieve the same CoL in NYC, SF, London, Tokyo, or Taipei that I do in Houston, I'd move in a heartbeat and sell the cars. Unfortunately, I cannot.
Who is that in your current avatar?
Jane Doe
That's actually for his Oct 6th fight, they haven't announced his Aug 31st opponent yet.
TheKaeptain
Banned
He really is a god.
GungHo
Single-handedly caused Exxon-Mobil to sue FOX, start World War 3
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=487275
What is it about this place that makes everyone want to share... everything?
What is it about this place that makes everyone want to share... everything?
dream
Member
so i wrote an essay on UFC 150 that is far longer than that wretched show really deserves
There were two big stories coming out of UFC 150. One was the decision in the Benson Henderson split decision win over Frankie Edgar to retain the UFC lightweight title in the main event.
The other was the business surrounding the match.
Henderson retained his title with a split decision win on scores of 46-49, 48-47 and 48-47 in a match that reasonably could have been judged either way. I had 49-48 for Edgar, with rounds three and five so close I couldn’t judge a winner, and with half points would have had it 49-48.5 for Edgar. I think most agreed that Henderson won the first round and Edgar the second. From there, it was very close to call in the next three rounds. I felt Edgar had the edge in the fourth round. The two judges who gave the fight to Henderson gave him rounds one, three and four while the judge who gave it to Edgar gave Henderson only the first round. There was an outcry of robbery, which was an insult to the term robbery and this was not a fight to knock the judges because three rounds could have legitimately gone in either direction, that’s how close the fight was. Fightmetric called the fight as a whole for Edgar, but under the ten point must system had it 48-48.
From a statistical standpoint, Edgar had a 66-64 edge in significant strikes, which tells you how even it was, however Henderson had a 36-30 edge in strikes that landed cleanly to the head. Henderson had an 11-7 edge in strikes in round one. Edgar had a 10-7 edge in round two. Edgar had a 15-13 edge in round three, however Henderson had a 5-2 edge in shots landing clean to the head. Henderson had a 17-15 edge in round four in strikes, with a 9-8 edge in clean strikes to the head. Edgar had a 15-11 edge in round five, and a 13-10 edge in clean strikes to the head.
It could have very reasonably been judged anything from 49-46 for Edgar to 48-47 for Henderson. I believe Edgar should have won, which seemed to be the prevailing opinion. Our post show poll had 56% for Edgar, 30% for Henderson and 15% even. But Edgar wasn’t robbed. It was a situation when the fight was over where one guy would be lucky, and that guy was Henderson.
Realistically, Edgar does deserve a rematch, but because this was his rematch, that wasn’t going to happen. After the fight there was all kinds of talk regarding how Edgar should move to 145 and make a run at Jose Aldo Jr. And since his real weight is 157-159 pounds, and he only cuts a few pounds, he’s actually a physically smaller guy in real life than Aldo Jr. and most of the UFC featherweights who are usually 160-170 pounders cutting down. But here is a guy who really should be lightweight champion right now. He has the power and wrestling ability to not get bullied around physically, and he’s faster than almost every lightweight. He wouldn’t have the same speed edge at 145. He’d be favored against anyone in the division and would give Aldo Jr. an intriguing opponent, which right now he doesn’t have. At the same time, the featherweight division is not a marquee division and there are less big fights for Edgar at that weight.
They can’t give Edgar an immediate rematch but with the performance, he should not to be put out to pasture or considered anything less than a top title contender as a lightweight if he wants to stay there. You could make a very strong case right now that he should be No. 1 in the world at that weight.
While Cowboy Donald Cerrone, who scored a knockout win over Melvin Guillard on the show, talked of facing Anthony Pettis next, the way I see the division is like this: Henderson defends against Diaz next, the main event on the 12/8 Fox show. The other four top contenders are Cerrone, Gray Maynard, Edgar and Pettis. Since Edgar and Maynard have already fought three times, you can’t match them up again. So they should do Edgar against either Cerrone or Pettis, with the winner of that fight getting the next title shot. Maynard should face the one who doesn’t face Edgar, and the winner of that fight should be the next guy in line. And the reality is injuries will probably speed up the process in some form.
Overall, UFC 150 was a good show. The main event was exciting. It didn’t have fireworks, but it was exciting because at no point was it clear who was going to win the fight and it went 25 minutes, right down to the wire. The semi, with Cerrone vs. Guillard, was one of the most exciting one minute fights in UFC history. Guillard dropped Cerrone right away, and hurt him worse than he’s been hurt in his entire career. But Cerrone came back with a high kick and a straight right that knocked Guillard out.
Cerrone ended up getting two $60,000 bonus checks, one for best knockout and the other for best fight. Guillard also got a $60,000 bonus, probably the first time in history a guy who got knocked out in 1:16 was ever given a best fight performance bonus. Dennis Bermudez got the best submission bonus.
The main card was really only marred by a dull match where Jake Shields, moving up to middleweight, won a decision in a fight heavily booed, over Ed Herman. Any handicapping of this fight would give Herman the standup edge and Shields the wrestling and ground edge. But Herman was the one who initiated the grappling, basically fighting Shields’ fight and coming up the loser in a fight that he stylistically had a good shot against a bigger name.
From a business standpoint, that wasn’t so good.
It started the night of the show, when the press conference started. Dana White, nonchalantly, as he does to start every press conference, gave the business figures for the 8/11 show at the Pepsi Center in Denver, as 15,008 people, and $650,000. At first, there were mumbles that surely he misspoke, because those numbers don’t add up. But later White confirmed the gate figure. What that means is for the first time for a PPV event since UFC hit television in 2005, they had to not just paper the building, which has happened from time-to-time, but completely flood the market with free tickets. At press time we don’t have the actual paid vs. paper, but the house was scaled at about a $144 average ticket price, so $650,000 would be about 4,500 paid. If more people bought the cheaper seats than the expensive seats (likely), the paid would be a little higher, but it’s probably not going to be much over 5,000 at best. It was the lowest gate for a PPV show since October 7, 2005, a show at the Mohegan Sun Casino in Uncasville, CT, headlined by Andrei Arlovski vs. Paul Buentello for the heavyweight title. As far as the lowest for paid attendance, you would likely have to go back to 2003.
After the show, White also noted that they were expecting to take a hit on PPV. He received word that DirecTV went down all night so people with that provider were unable to purchase the show. Since he was at the show, he was probably only getting sketchy details. I was able to get the show on DirecTV with no problem. But there was an issue. Apparently if you automatically ordered through your remote in much of the country, there was no issue. However, if you tried to order by phone or by computer, there was a problem with the system that made it impossible, although the issue was apparently fixed in time for the replay show. We received a lot of feedback from DirecTV subscribers, split almost 50-50 between those who were able to see the show, and those who couldn’t, and many wanted to see it and gave up, not buying the replay. It was significant enough that it cost them a fairly significant number of buys that they would have gotten. But probably not enough to change it from a low number to even close to an average number.
Very early numbers indicate about 190,000 North American buys (this is not a direct buy number or even a strong estimate but just a very preliminary figure). While nobody going in expected big numbers, that would still be below most expectations. As we always say, there is significant potential margin of error this early, but suffice to say this show probably did not do well. We’ll have a better read on this in two weeks. But other indicators were down. Google searches, which usually have a decent correlation to where buys are usually not far from double searches, fell from 1 million for UFC 148 (which makes that correlation look bad but half of those were searches related to watching Anderson Silva shoulder Chael Sonnen at the weigh-ins, and for the show itself it was 500,000, which comes close enough to the correlation) and 100,000 for UFC 149 while this show was just over 50,000. But that shows DirecTV issues or not, the interest level in this show was well below normal.
It appears the show was a little down from UFC 149 in the U.S. (which could be DirecTV), and significantly down in Canada (since 149 came from Calgary so had far more Canadian media publicity, but that would have nothing to do with DirecTV).
But it looks to be the lowest number for a PPV that came from North America since 2005. This also indicates something else. When the first Edgar vs. Benson Henderson show from Japan did better than many expected, there were thoughts that Edgar, because he has such great fights with Maynard, with the come-from-behind wins, was finally getting respect and clicking as at least a second-tier level draw and star. However, all indicators suggested that wasn’t the case. I think this number for the same main event tells the message I thought from the Japan number. That the number may have been curiosity of the return to Japan, and was more likely because of Quinton Jackson, who has had a strong history as a drawing card, even though his career has faded in recent years.
In addition, the FX prelims did a 0.67 rating and 974,000 viewers, the number was way down from UFC 148 (1.8 million), but that’s to be expected given how much interest there was in that show. It was roughly the same as UFC 149 on 7/21, and was slightly ahead in the key demos. It was the highest rated show on cable in the time slot in Males 18-34.
First off, there are two things that should be said before one side starts screaming about people saying gloom and doom when everything is fine and the other side says gloom and doom. This is one show. Going forward, there are going to be big shows and there are going to be shows that aren’t so big. The fan dynamic has changed greatly. Part of it may be inevitability of doing so many shows, that shows are watered down and people are more willing to skip the ones without strong main events. UFC does feel in many ways closer to a sport like boxing than a more entertaining sport that has more of a modern feel to attract more than just fight fans, which was how it came across 2006-2010 when it was doing its big numbers. The idea of getting a bunch of people together to watch UFC isn’t the same as what it once was.
But going back a few years, what this means is the big ones will stay big, and maybe get bigger. But the secondary ones won’t do what they used to do. One bad show doesn’t necessarily indicate anything because we are only a month removed from a gigantic show, and the November and December PPV shows this year should do well.
Since the big show on 7/7, we’ve had a 7/11 show that didn’t sell many tickets in a traditionally strong (but now burned out) market; a first-time ever show in Calgary that did a tremendous gate, but not so much on PPV, but not any less than expected either.
You can argue too many shows, and this is the fourth PPV in seven weeks, and that’s asking a lot from the consumer base. I think more and more than anything more than one PPV per month is probably overdoing things. The group of guys getting together on Saturday night to watch UFC are not going to do it weekly. Sure, for the UFC nuts, they would like a show every Saturday, but if you market based on that fan base, you’re going to get 50,000 buys and drive away the masses.
We did a poll, and this would be a percentage of a subset that consider themselves UFC fans or have been UFC fans who follow the product. Of that subset, this is what they did on that night, and it shows there is no one answer but there are pressing issues.
15.4% said they didn’t watch because they are losing interest in UFC
14.8% said they watched it on an illegal stream
13.7% said they didn’t watch it due to a social activity that took precedence
10.7% said they personally purchased it on PPV
10.7% said they skipped the show due to what they believed to be a weak lineup. The key here is it was the overall lineup and not the specific main event that was the turnoff. That differs from boxing where it’s still all about the main event.
10.0% said they didn’t watch it for economic reasons, having bought too many PPV shows in too short a period of time
8.9% stated they were burned out by so many shows
7.7% said they watched it at a bar or a restaurant
3.3% said they skipped the show to watch the Olympics
2.6% said they watched it at a friends house
1.1% said they skipped it because they didn’t like the main event.
This did not have a deep lineup. It promised good action, but generally speaking, most UFC shows are going to give you good action. This was a very good show overall. It was only three weeks after the disaster of a show in Calgary, but seven days after a really strong show on FOX. I don’t see show quality as a big issue, good or bad.
This was the company’s second show of the modern era in Denver (the home of several early shows). The first, on 9/24, with Jon Jones vs. Rampage Jackson on top, did 16,344 fans, with 14,247 paid and $2,089,575.
White noted that when it comes to big shows, the live gate is almost never a problem. Because of that, he publicly stated he believed it was due to issues in the area and not the product.
“Talking about it, the shootings here, the fires that have been going on here, it’s been a really bad summer for this place. Once all that stuff started going down, we kind of felt it was not going to be a good gate here.” He was insistent it was not the main event that was the reason surprisingly few were willing to pay money for tickets, and it may be card depth even more than the main event.
That’s good to say to the media. But there are issues as the poll above showed people’s reasons for not buying were related to the availability of illegal streams, a weak lineup and so many PPV shows in a short period of time. The streaming and other social activities, which is always going to be competition, are going to be issues with every show. But there is a fan base in danger of being lost, a fan base that may have already left in the last year, but there is also a large fan base that is still there and strong, but many of them didn’t order this for a variety of reasons.
But as far as problems in Colorado, the Rockies (the baseball team in Denver) are averaging 34,000 paid this season, down from 36,000 last season. That’s with multiple games per week. If the Rockies are only down slightly, those issues can’t have any major effect on ticket sales for a once a year event.
There were two big stories coming out of UFC 150. One was the decision in the Benson Henderson split decision win over Frankie Edgar to retain the UFC lightweight title in the main event.
The other was the business surrounding the match.
Henderson retained his title with a split decision win on scores of 46-49, 48-47 and 48-47 in a match that reasonably could have been judged either way. I had 49-48 for Edgar, with rounds three and five so close I couldn’t judge a winner, and with half points would have had it 49-48.5 for Edgar. I think most agreed that Henderson won the first round and Edgar the second. From there, it was very close to call in the next three rounds. I felt Edgar had the edge in the fourth round. The two judges who gave the fight to Henderson gave him rounds one, three and four while the judge who gave it to Edgar gave Henderson only the first round. There was an outcry of robbery, which was an insult to the term robbery and this was not a fight to knock the judges because three rounds could have legitimately gone in either direction, that’s how close the fight was. Fightmetric called the fight as a whole for Edgar, but under the ten point must system had it 48-48.
From a statistical standpoint, Edgar had a 66-64 edge in significant strikes, which tells you how even it was, however Henderson had a 36-30 edge in strikes that landed cleanly to the head. Henderson had an 11-7 edge in strikes in round one. Edgar had a 10-7 edge in round two. Edgar had a 15-13 edge in round three, however Henderson had a 5-2 edge in shots landing clean to the head. Henderson had a 17-15 edge in round four in strikes, with a 9-8 edge in clean strikes to the head. Edgar had a 15-11 edge in round five, and a 13-10 edge in clean strikes to the head.
It could have very reasonably been judged anything from 49-46 for Edgar to 48-47 for Henderson. I believe Edgar should have won, which seemed to be the prevailing opinion. Our post show poll had 56% for Edgar, 30% for Henderson and 15% even. But Edgar wasn’t robbed. It was a situation when the fight was over where one guy would be lucky, and that guy was Henderson.
Realistically, Edgar does deserve a rematch, but because this was his rematch, that wasn’t going to happen. After the fight there was all kinds of talk regarding how Edgar should move to 145 and make a run at Jose Aldo Jr. And since his real weight is 157-159 pounds, and he only cuts a few pounds, he’s actually a physically smaller guy in real life than Aldo Jr. and most of the UFC featherweights who are usually 160-170 pounders cutting down. But here is a guy who really should be lightweight champion right now. He has the power and wrestling ability to not get bullied around physically, and he’s faster than almost every lightweight. He wouldn’t have the same speed edge at 145. He’d be favored against anyone in the division and would give Aldo Jr. an intriguing opponent, which right now he doesn’t have. At the same time, the featherweight division is not a marquee division and there are less big fights for Edgar at that weight.
They can’t give Edgar an immediate rematch but with the performance, he should not to be put out to pasture or considered anything less than a top title contender as a lightweight if he wants to stay there. You could make a very strong case right now that he should be No. 1 in the world at that weight.
While Cowboy Donald Cerrone, who scored a knockout win over Melvin Guillard on the show, talked of facing Anthony Pettis next, the way I see the division is like this: Henderson defends against Diaz next, the main event on the 12/8 Fox show. The other four top contenders are Cerrone, Gray Maynard, Edgar and Pettis. Since Edgar and Maynard have already fought three times, you can’t match them up again. So they should do Edgar against either Cerrone or Pettis, with the winner of that fight getting the next title shot. Maynard should face the one who doesn’t face Edgar, and the winner of that fight should be the next guy in line. And the reality is injuries will probably speed up the process in some form.
Overall, UFC 150 was a good show. The main event was exciting. It didn’t have fireworks, but it was exciting because at no point was it clear who was going to win the fight and it went 25 minutes, right down to the wire. The semi, with Cerrone vs. Guillard, was one of the most exciting one minute fights in UFC history. Guillard dropped Cerrone right away, and hurt him worse than he’s been hurt in his entire career. But Cerrone came back with a high kick and a straight right that knocked Guillard out.
Cerrone ended up getting two $60,000 bonus checks, one for best knockout and the other for best fight. Guillard also got a $60,000 bonus, probably the first time in history a guy who got knocked out in 1:16 was ever given a best fight performance bonus. Dennis Bermudez got the best submission bonus.
The main card was really only marred by a dull match where Jake Shields, moving up to middleweight, won a decision in a fight heavily booed, over Ed Herman. Any handicapping of this fight would give Herman the standup edge and Shields the wrestling and ground edge. But Herman was the one who initiated the grappling, basically fighting Shields’ fight and coming up the loser in a fight that he stylistically had a good shot against a bigger name.
From a business standpoint, that wasn’t so good.
It started the night of the show, when the press conference started. Dana White, nonchalantly, as he does to start every press conference, gave the business figures for the 8/11 show at the Pepsi Center in Denver, as 15,008 people, and $650,000. At first, there were mumbles that surely he misspoke, because those numbers don’t add up. But later White confirmed the gate figure. What that means is for the first time for a PPV event since UFC hit television in 2005, they had to not just paper the building, which has happened from time-to-time, but completely flood the market with free tickets. At press time we don’t have the actual paid vs. paper, but the house was scaled at about a $144 average ticket price, so $650,000 would be about 4,500 paid. If more people bought the cheaper seats than the expensive seats (likely), the paid would be a little higher, but it’s probably not going to be much over 5,000 at best. It was the lowest gate for a PPV show since October 7, 2005, a show at the Mohegan Sun Casino in Uncasville, CT, headlined by Andrei Arlovski vs. Paul Buentello for the heavyweight title. As far as the lowest for paid attendance, you would likely have to go back to 2003.
After the show, White also noted that they were expecting to take a hit on PPV. He received word that DirecTV went down all night so people with that provider were unable to purchase the show. Since he was at the show, he was probably only getting sketchy details. I was able to get the show on DirecTV with no problem. But there was an issue. Apparently if you automatically ordered through your remote in much of the country, there was no issue. However, if you tried to order by phone or by computer, there was a problem with the system that made it impossible, although the issue was apparently fixed in time for the replay show. We received a lot of feedback from DirecTV subscribers, split almost 50-50 between those who were able to see the show, and those who couldn’t, and many wanted to see it and gave up, not buying the replay. It was significant enough that it cost them a fairly significant number of buys that they would have gotten. But probably not enough to change it from a low number to even close to an average number.
Very early numbers indicate about 190,000 North American buys (this is not a direct buy number or even a strong estimate but just a very preliminary figure). While nobody going in expected big numbers, that would still be below most expectations. As we always say, there is significant potential margin of error this early, but suffice to say this show probably did not do well. We’ll have a better read on this in two weeks. But other indicators were down. Google searches, which usually have a decent correlation to where buys are usually not far from double searches, fell from 1 million for UFC 148 (which makes that correlation look bad but half of those were searches related to watching Anderson Silva shoulder Chael Sonnen at the weigh-ins, and for the show itself it was 500,000, which comes close enough to the correlation) and 100,000 for UFC 149 while this show was just over 50,000. But that shows DirecTV issues or not, the interest level in this show was well below normal.
It appears the show was a little down from UFC 149 in the U.S. (which could be DirecTV), and significantly down in Canada (since 149 came from Calgary so had far more Canadian media publicity, but that would have nothing to do with DirecTV).
But it looks to be the lowest number for a PPV that came from North America since 2005. This also indicates something else. When the first Edgar vs. Benson Henderson show from Japan did better than many expected, there were thoughts that Edgar, because he has such great fights with Maynard, with the come-from-behind wins, was finally getting respect and clicking as at least a second-tier level draw and star. However, all indicators suggested that wasn’t the case. I think this number for the same main event tells the message I thought from the Japan number. That the number may have been curiosity of the return to Japan, and was more likely because of Quinton Jackson, who has had a strong history as a drawing card, even though his career has faded in recent years.
In addition, the FX prelims did a 0.67 rating and 974,000 viewers, the number was way down from UFC 148 (1.8 million), but that’s to be expected given how much interest there was in that show. It was roughly the same as UFC 149 on 7/21, and was slightly ahead in the key demos. It was the highest rated show on cable in the time slot in Males 18-34.
First off, there are two things that should be said before one side starts screaming about people saying gloom and doom when everything is fine and the other side says gloom and doom. This is one show. Going forward, there are going to be big shows and there are going to be shows that aren’t so big. The fan dynamic has changed greatly. Part of it may be inevitability of doing so many shows, that shows are watered down and people are more willing to skip the ones without strong main events. UFC does feel in many ways closer to a sport like boxing than a more entertaining sport that has more of a modern feel to attract more than just fight fans, which was how it came across 2006-2010 when it was doing its big numbers. The idea of getting a bunch of people together to watch UFC isn’t the same as what it once was.
But going back a few years, what this means is the big ones will stay big, and maybe get bigger. But the secondary ones won’t do what they used to do. One bad show doesn’t necessarily indicate anything because we are only a month removed from a gigantic show, and the November and December PPV shows this year should do well.
Since the big show on 7/7, we’ve had a 7/11 show that didn’t sell many tickets in a traditionally strong (but now burned out) market; a first-time ever show in Calgary that did a tremendous gate, but not so much on PPV, but not any less than expected either.
You can argue too many shows, and this is the fourth PPV in seven weeks, and that’s asking a lot from the consumer base. I think more and more than anything more than one PPV per month is probably overdoing things. The group of guys getting together on Saturday night to watch UFC are not going to do it weekly. Sure, for the UFC nuts, they would like a show every Saturday, but if you market based on that fan base, you’re going to get 50,000 buys and drive away the masses.
We did a poll, and this would be a percentage of a subset that consider themselves UFC fans or have been UFC fans who follow the product. Of that subset, this is what they did on that night, and it shows there is no one answer but there are pressing issues.
15.4% said they didn’t watch because they are losing interest in UFC
14.8% said they watched it on an illegal stream
13.7% said they didn’t watch it due to a social activity that took precedence
10.7% said they personally purchased it on PPV
10.7% said they skipped the show due to what they believed to be a weak lineup. The key here is it was the overall lineup and not the specific main event that was the turnoff. That differs from boxing where it’s still all about the main event.
10.0% said they didn’t watch it for economic reasons, having bought too many PPV shows in too short a period of time
8.9% stated they were burned out by so many shows
7.7% said they watched it at a bar or a restaurant
3.3% said they skipped the show to watch the Olympics
2.6% said they watched it at a friends house
1.1% said they skipped it because they didn’t like the main event.
This did not have a deep lineup. It promised good action, but generally speaking, most UFC shows are going to give you good action. This was a very good show overall. It was only three weeks after the disaster of a show in Calgary, but seven days after a really strong show on FOX. I don’t see show quality as a big issue, good or bad.
This was the company’s second show of the modern era in Denver (the home of several early shows). The first, on 9/24, with Jon Jones vs. Rampage Jackson on top, did 16,344 fans, with 14,247 paid and $2,089,575.
White noted that when it comes to big shows, the live gate is almost never a problem. Because of that, he publicly stated he believed it was due to issues in the area and not the product.
“Talking about it, the shootings here, the fires that have been going on here, it’s been a really bad summer for this place. Once all that stuff started going down, we kind of felt it was not going to be a good gate here.” He was insistent it was not the main event that was the reason surprisingly few were willing to pay money for tickets, and it may be card depth even more than the main event.
That’s good to say to the media. But there are issues as the poll above showed people’s reasons for not buying were related to the availability of illegal streams, a weak lineup and so many PPV shows in a short period of time. The streaming and other social activities, which is always going to be competition, are going to be issues with every show. But there is a fan base in danger of being lost, a fan base that may have already left in the last year, but there is also a large fan base that is still there and strong, but many of them didn’t order this for a variety of reasons.
But as far as problems in Colorado, the Rockies (the baseball team in Denver) are averaging 34,000 paid this season, down from 36,000 last season. That’s with multiple games per week. If the Rockies are only down slightly, those issues can’t have any major effect on ticket sales for a once a year event.
dream
Member
I also wrote an essay on some other stuff
After a week of it being the source of major debate, Dana White announced after UFC 150 that the 12/29 main event for Las Vegas would be Junior Dos Santos vs. Cain Velasquez for the UFC heavyweight title. In addition, Chael Sonnen revealed on UFC Tonight that he would be moving up to light heavyweight to face Forrest Griffin on that show, and try and put together a record in the division that would enable him to challenge Jon Jones or whoever the champion would be.
In addition, the promotion announced the top three fights for its next show on FOX, which takes place on 12/8. No location has been announced. San Jose has been talked about, but after weak showings at the gate for the last two shows in the market, that would seem to work against it.
The main event will be Benson Henderson vs. Nate Diaz for the lightweight title, and where San Jose comes into play is its located near Stockton, where Diaz is from. The other two matches made official were the B.J. Penn vs. Rory MacDonald and Mauricio Shogun Rua vs. Alexander Gustafsson. One more match will be added to the FOX television lineup. This show will have the advantage of being promoted during FOX NFL broadcasts. It also means the Jon Jones vs. Lyoto Machida light heavyweight title match would likely take place in early 2013. Dos Santos vs. Velasquez, Jones/Henderson vs. Machida and Sonnen vs. Griffin would be a great year-end show, but its unlikely they would put that much on one show. If it wasnt on FOX or 12/29, theres no real viable date at the end of the year for the light heavyweight bout.
Penn vs. MacDonald was originally set for 9/22 in Toronto, but had to be moved because MacDonald suffered a 38-stitch cut over his right eye from an elbow delivered in training. Rua vs. Gustafsson can be promoted where the winner would get a light heavyweight title match against the winner of the match where Lyoto Machida challenges either Jon Jones or Dan Henderson. Gustafsson has been talked about as Jones most intriguing challenger because of being taller and not giving up as much reach as everyone else does, and being more experienced at standup. Rua is coming off the win last week over Brandon Vera.
White saying Velasquez was getting the heavyweight title shot came just two days after an of MMA Uncensored where Alistair Overeem was the guest, and the hosts were talking of him getting the shot on that date like it was a probability. Host Craig Carton put the idea over of how it shows that Dana White listens to the fans, going with the argument that more fans would want to see Dos Santos vs. Overeem than Dos Santos vs. Velasquez, given the first fight between the two of them ended with Dos Santos winning in one minute via knockout.
Most were sensing the same thing last week when White talked about how Dos Santos said he didnt want to face Velasquez and that Dos Santos said he thought Overeem was a punk and he wanted to shut him up. Overeem did a tremendous job on the show and really all week in media in saying how Dos Santos already knocked out Velasquez and would probably do it again and prove nothing, but if Dos Santos wanted people to think he was the No. 1 heavyweight in the world, nobody would think that unless he beat him, since he said hes really the No. 1 heavyweight. The two had a confrontation at the UFC Fighter Summit in July where at the time Dos Santos told him that he has to fight Velasquez first.
When the UFC wouldnt give Velasquezs camp any information or details of when he would fight next or a date for his fight, Javier Mendez and Velasquez started pushing in the media that they wanted a date for their title shot. Mendez used the term ducking when he heard Dos Santos wanted to face Overeem and not Velasquez. This led to a reaction that Velasquez was knocked out in a minute by Dos Santos, so why would he duck the guy and with just one win, that Velasquez didnt deserve the shot. The flip side is Velasquez was already announced as getting the next shot after his win over Antonio Silva. Mendez later said he regretted using the term ducking.
If it wasnt for the drug testing and licensing issue, Id have said Overeems talking this week should have gotten him the shot because anyone who saw him would want to see that fight and getting more people interested in your fight is a key part of business.
However, the timing issue looks to have made this fight impossible. UFC wants to headline the show with the heavyweight title, but Overeem cant even get a hearing to be licensed until 12/27 at the earliest. There was no way UFC could have promoted the fight with Overeems participation being in question until literally the day before weigh-ins. While I expect he will be licensed at the hearing, it puts pressure on the commission and would be bad for the sport. Ultimately, I cant see UFC selling tickets in Nevada while advertising a guy without a license as the challenger in a title match. Im not even sure how the commission would look at such a situation given those would be tickets sold at outlets in Nevada, but now its a moot point and probably always was. Lorenzo Fertitta is a former member of the same commission in the 90s, and he was not going to make a decision that would appear to thumb his nose at the commission.
Overeem on MMA Uncensored said that his lawyers had been working on a deal with the commission for a hearing this month where theyd ask to get an early hearing based on good behavior, that would allow a license, or perhaps a conditional license, that would allow the fight to take place, since he wasnt going to fight until after 12/27.
But the next morning, Nevada State Athletic Commission Executive Director Keith Kizer said that he knew nothing about the request for such a hearing, that UFC also knew nothing about it and gave the impression that Overeems hearing was very unlikely to take place before 12/27.
One of the key aspects is the Nevada commissions own rules were that if someone doesnt get licensed, they cant apply for a license for another year. They had already cut three months off that time table for Overeem, which was controversial enough given his track record between November and his failed test.
I think when UFC realized such a hearing wasnt going to happen, there was no other choice if they wanted a title match on that show. I know that the Velasquez camp mid-week thought it was 80% that Overeem was getting the shot and theyd get the winner, since White pushed the Overeem fight idea and they couldnt get a date. It really wasnt until 8/9, when Kizer stated that Overeem wasnt getting the hearing, that it appeared Velasquez would probably get the shot, which White announced the next day.
Overeem has taken a number of drug tests of late and sent the results to the UFC, which has in turn passed them on to the Nevada commission. I think what they were hoping for was that if he had a number of clean tests, they would, in Overeems own words on the show, give him time off for good behavior. Kizer didnt think the tests were going to have any real bearing on what happens. Him taking tests when he wants to, during a time when hes not fighting anyway, and forwarding results doesnt really mean that much.
What was also notable on the MMA Uncensored show is Overeem still maintained that he had never used steroids, but described the reason he wasnt licensed as being because his levels in a test were off due to medical treatment of an injury. In fact, in his own defense, his claim the reason he tested positive for testosterone was because it was part of a mixture given to him by a Texas doctor, now under investigation, for treatment of a rib injury. The claim was that Overeem was never told by the doctor that the shots he took contained testosterone that would cause him to fail a test.
Nevertheless, Overeem seemed to know enough to leave the building when he was told to stay for a surprise test in late March. He only came back and took the test when Kizer ran him down as he was leaving and told him if he didnt take the test right away, it would be considered a failure.
Overeem on the show used the argument that he never tested positive for any steroid, apparently the argument used by Chael Sonnen as well as John Cena after the death of Chris Benoit (when Benoit tested 59.4-1 on the T:E ratio and was found with five times the amount of serum testosterone in his system, some doctors said ten times although thats a little exaggerated as well) to mislead people into thinking shots of testosterone arent a steroid. Cena claimed at the time the tests only showed he had high levels of testosterone, and that the tests on Benoit showed he was clean of steroids.
Craig Carton, who is strong at challenging guests on the show (he went off on Jon Jones for having a boring fight not worth the money against Rashad Evans when Jones was on his show), didnt even touch that silliness, which surprised me because hes usually so aggressive with guests, even King Mo, who is the darling of the network his show airs on.
Overeem will likely face the 12/29 winner, which, depending on the injury situation, would likely be either the Memorial Day or July 4th weekend show in Las Vegas. I still believe, and based on the reactions of most people Ive spoken with, that Overeem should have to win one fight first after a drug suspension. There is a precedent with Tim Sylvia and Sean Sherk getting title shots right after coming off steroid suspensions, but I think the steroid subject is way more serious when UFC is considered a real sport to the media instead of the wild west as it was in those days. But if Frank Mir beats Daniel Cormier, there would be no other contender but Overeem. If Velasquez beats Dos Santos, Cormier vs. Velasquez is probably not happening. I wouldnt say impossible, but its unlikely. Cormier has talked of going to 205 to face Jon Jones if Velasquez beats Dos Santos.
But even so, I see Overeem getting the mid-2013 shot and Cormier, if someone other than Velasquez is champion and he hasnt been beaten by then, getting the late 2013 shot.
In Sonnen vs. Griffin, Sonnen will be attempting to avenge a fight that took place seemingly a lifetime ago, when they were both struggling unknown fighters. Griffin, who just turned 33, is actually two years younger than the 35-year-old Sonnen. The perception of most fans is Griffin is an older fighter on his last legs while Sonnen is a current star. In their prior meeting, on September 6, 2003, for the IFC promotion in Denver, Griffin beat Sonnen in 2:25 with a triangle. The promotion was heavily pushing Sonnen vs. Wanderlei Silva for 12/29, but Sonnen didnt want that fight and wanted to move up and face Griffin.
After a week of it being the source of major debate, Dana White announced after UFC 150 that the 12/29 main event for Las Vegas would be Junior Dos Santos vs. Cain Velasquez for the UFC heavyweight title. In addition, Chael Sonnen revealed on UFC Tonight that he would be moving up to light heavyweight to face Forrest Griffin on that show, and try and put together a record in the division that would enable him to challenge Jon Jones or whoever the champion would be.
In addition, the promotion announced the top three fights for its next show on FOX, which takes place on 12/8. No location has been announced. San Jose has been talked about, but after weak showings at the gate for the last two shows in the market, that would seem to work against it.
The main event will be Benson Henderson vs. Nate Diaz for the lightweight title, and where San Jose comes into play is its located near Stockton, where Diaz is from. The other two matches made official were the B.J. Penn vs. Rory MacDonald and Mauricio Shogun Rua vs. Alexander Gustafsson. One more match will be added to the FOX television lineup. This show will have the advantage of being promoted during FOX NFL broadcasts. It also means the Jon Jones vs. Lyoto Machida light heavyweight title match would likely take place in early 2013. Dos Santos vs. Velasquez, Jones/Henderson vs. Machida and Sonnen vs. Griffin would be a great year-end show, but its unlikely they would put that much on one show. If it wasnt on FOX or 12/29, theres no real viable date at the end of the year for the light heavyweight bout.
Penn vs. MacDonald was originally set for 9/22 in Toronto, but had to be moved because MacDonald suffered a 38-stitch cut over his right eye from an elbow delivered in training. Rua vs. Gustafsson can be promoted where the winner would get a light heavyweight title match against the winner of the match where Lyoto Machida challenges either Jon Jones or Dan Henderson. Gustafsson has been talked about as Jones most intriguing challenger because of being taller and not giving up as much reach as everyone else does, and being more experienced at standup. Rua is coming off the win last week over Brandon Vera.
White saying Velasquez was getting the heavyweight title shot came just two days after an of MMA Uncensored where Alistair Overeem was the guest, and the hosts were talking of him getting the shot on that date like it was a probability. Host Craig Carton put the idea over of how it shows that Dana White listens to the fans, going with the argument that more fans would want to see Dos Santos vs. Overeem than Dos Santos vs. Velasquez, given the first fight between the two of them ended with Dos Santos winning in one minute via knockout.
Most were sensing the same thing last week when White talked about how Dos Santos said he didnt want to face Velasquez and that Dos Santos said he thought Overeem was a punk and he wanted to shut him up. Overeem did a tremendous job on the show and really all week in media in saying how Dos Santos already knocked out Velasquez and would probably do it again and prove nothing, but if Dos Santos wanted people to think he was the No. 1 heavyweight in the world, nobody would think that unless he beat him, since he said hes really the No. 1 heavyweight. The two had a confrontation at the UFC Fighter Summit in July where at the time Dos Santos told him that he has to fight Velasquez first.
When the UFC wouldnt give Velasquezs camp any information or details of when he would fight next or a date for his fight, Javier Mendez and Velasquez started pushing in the media that they wanted a date for their title shot. Mendez used the term ducking when he heard Dos Santos wanted to face Overeem and not Velasquez. This led to a reaction that Velasquez was knocked out in a minute by Dos Santos, so why would he duck the guy and with just one win, that Velasquez didnt deserve the shot. The flip side is Velasquez was already announced as getting the next shot after his win over Antonio Silva. Mendez later said he regretted using the term ducking.
If it wasnt for the drug testing and licensing issue, Id have said Overeems talking this week should have gotten him the shot because anyone who saw him would want to see that fight and getting more people interested in your fight is a key part of business.
However, the timing issue looks to have made this fight impossible. UFC wants to headline the show with the heavyweight title, but Overeem cant even get a hearing to be licensed until 12/27 at the earliest. There was no way UFC could have promoted the fight with Overeems participation being in question until literally the day before weigh-ins. While I expect he will be licensed at the hearing, it puts pressure on the commission and would be bad for the sport. Ultimately, I cant see UFC selling tickets in Nevada while advertising a guy without a license as the challenger in a title match. Im not even sure how the commission would look at such a situation given those would be tickets sold at outlets in Nevada, but now its a moot point and probably always was. Lorenzo Fertitta is a former member of the same commission in the 90s, and he was not going to make a decision that would appear to thumb his nose at the commission.
Overeem on MMA Uncensored said that his lawyers had been working on a deal with the commission for a hearing this month where theyd ask to get an early hearing based on good behavior, that would allow a license, or perhaps a conditional license, that would allow the fight to take place, since he wasnt going to fight until after 12/27.
But the next morning, Nevada State Athletic Commission Executive Director Keith Kizer said that he knew nothing about the request for such a hearing, that UFC also knew nothing about it and gave the impression that Overeems hearing was very unlikely to take place before 12/27.
One of the key aspects is the Nevada commissions own rules were that if someone doesnt get licensed, they cant apply for a license for another year. They had already cut three months off that time table for Overeem, which was controversial enough given his track record between November and his failed test.
I think when UFC realized such a hearing wasnt going to happen, there was no other choice if they wanted a title match on that show. I know that the Velasquez camp mid-week thought it was 80% that Overeem was getting the shot and theyd get the winner, since White pushed the Overeem fight idea and they couldnt get a date. It really wasnt until 8/9, when Kizer stated that Overeem wasnt getting the hearing, that it appeared Velasquez would probably get the shot, which White announced the next day.
Overeem has taken a number of drug tests of late and sent the results to the UFC, which has in turn passed them on to the Nevada commission. I think what they were hoping for was that if he had a number of clean tests, they would, in Overeems own words on the show, give him time off for good behavior. Kizer didnt think the tests were going to have any real bearing on what happens. Him taking tests when he wants to, during a time when hes not fighting anyway, and forwarding results doesnt really mean that much.
What was also notable on the MMA Uncensored show is Overeem still maintained that he had never used steroids, but described the reason he wasnt licensed as being because his levels in a test were off due to medical treatment of an injury. In fact, in his own defense, his claim the reason he tested positive for testosterone was because it was part of a mixture given to him by a Texas doctor, now under investigation, for treatment of a rib injury. The claim was that Overeem was never told by the doctor that the shots he took contained testosterone that would cause him to fail a test.
Nevertheless, Overeem seemed to know enough to leave the building when he was told to stay for a surprise test in late March. He only came back and took the test when Kizer ran him down as he was leaving and told him if he didnt take the test right away, it would be considered a failure.
Overeem on the show used the argument that he never tested positive for any steroid, apparently the argument used by Chael Sonnen as well as John Cena after the death of Chris Benoit (when Benoit tested 59.4-1 on the T:E ratio and was found with five times the amount of serum testosterone in his system, some doctors said ten times although thats a little exaggerated as well) to mislead people into thinking shots of testosterone arent a steroid. Cena claimed at the time the tests only showed he had high levels of testosterone, and that the tests on Benoit showed he was clean of steroids.
Craig Carton, who is strong at challenging guests on the show (he went off on Jon Jones for having a boring fight not worth the money against Rashad Evans when Jones was on his show), didnt even touch that silliness, which surprised me because hes usually so aggressive with guests, even King Mo, who is the darling of the network his show airs on.
Overeem will likely face the 12/29 winner, which, depending on the injury situation, would likely be either the Memorial Day or July 4th weekend show in Las Vegas. I still believe, and based on the reactions of most people Ive spoken with, that Overeem should have to win one fight first after a drug suspension. There is a precedent with Tim Sylvia and Sean Sherk getting title shots right after coming off steroid suspensions, but I think the steroid subject is way more serious when UFC is considered a real sport to the media instead of the wild west as it was in those days. But if Frank Mir beats Daniel Cormier, there would be no other contender but Overeem. If Velasquez beats Dos Santos, Cormier vs. Velasquez is probably not happening. I wouldnt say impossible, but its unlikely. Cormier has talked of going to 205 to face Jon Jones if Velasquez beats Dos Santos.
But even so, I see Overeem getting the mid-2013 shot and Cormier, if someone other than Velasquez is champion and he hasnt been beaten by then, getting the late 2013 shot.
In Sonnen vs. Griffin, Sonnen will be attempting to avenge a fight that took place seemingly a lifetime ago, when they were both struggling unknown fighters. Griffin, who just turned 33, is actually two years younger than the 35-year-old Sonnen. The perception of most fans is Griffin is an older fighter on his last legs while Sonnen is a current star. In their prior meeting, on September 6, 2003, for the IFC promotion in Denver, Griffin beat Sonnen in 2:25 with a triangle. The promotion was heavily pushing Sonnen vs. Wanderlei Silva for 12/29, but Sonnen didnt want that fight and wanted to move up and face Griffin.
dream
Member
Then I wrote some smaller pieces that are mostly of interest only to Natch.
Jon Jones became the first UFC fighter to get a worldwide Nike deal (Yoshihiro Akiyama got one in Japan; Anderson Silva has one in Brazil). Theyll be marketing a Jon Jones product line and hell be in commercials that will air everywhere. Its a big step in taking him from a star in a secondary sport to a major sports figure, which is of course, depending on him staying at or near the top. Its an interesting deal because Nike will try to market Jones as this super athlete babyface to the general public as the face of the sport, even though hes actually a heel to the fans of the sport. A lot of fans are negative toward him, seeing him as phony, but he makes a great impression to executives, good-looking, dresses well, speaks well, is actually kind of funny and is the kind of guy you want repping you on talk shows. Plus the feeling in that world is this is a new major sport with the FOX deal and Jones is going to be on top for years so youre getting a future Kobe Bryant or Tony Hawk type guy in the early stages of his run. Funny how the perception differs from the actual fan perception both of the sport and of Jones. With the worldwide scope of the deal, provided Jones continues to win and stays out of trouble, he would be expected within a relatively short period of time to be the biggest name in the sport. There will be Jon Jones shoes and Jon Jones gear marketed. Time will tell, but right now I dont see Jones as that kind of guy that people want to buy en masse his signature merchandise, but the idea is to market him to a more casual and new fan base as opposed to the MMA hardcore base.
Catching up on some business numbers. The 12/30 Brock Lesnar vs. Alistair Overeem PPV did about 535,000 buys. Thats far less than original projections and predictions. As for why, there are two conclusions you can come to. The first is that Lesnar losing the title and his health issues hurt his aura as a draw, even though the two giant heavyweights going at it promotion was good and it was still on Spike with a strong performance by Overeem in the Countdown show. Overeem had never been in UFC, and didnt look good in his prior Strikeforce fight with Fabricio Werdum even though he won. The other was it was a Friday night show and as silly as that sounds, I did think that was going to hurt somewhat. While UFC and WWE are different in a sense when it comes to winning and losing and drawing power, the argument that Lesnar lost to Velasquez and came back and drew big with Overeem isnt quite accurate.
For the 7/14 Strikeforce show in Portland, the show drew 4,186 to the Rose Garden, which was 1,625 paying $132,905. Strikeforce hasnt been able to sell tickets to any of their shows this year except the Rousey vs. Tate fight and even that wasnt anything special unless you compare it to the other shows this year. The pay for the show was Luke Rockhold ($100,000), Tim Kennedy ($55,000), Nate Marquardt ($70,000), Tyron Woodley ($43,500), Roger Gracie ($63,000), Keith Jardine ($30,000), Lorenz Larkin ($33,000), Robbie Lawler ($95,000), Pat Healy ($38,000), Mizuto Hirota ($5,150 - this is one of those international deals most likely), Ryan Couture ($18,000), Joe Duarte ($8,000), Jorge Masvidal ($46,000), Justin Wilcox ($12,000), Jordan Mein ($13,000), Tyler Stinson ($4,000), Jason High ($10,000) and Nate Moore ($9,000).
Jason Mayhem Miller was arrested on 8/13 and charged with burglary after bizarre behavior where its alleged he broke into a church and went crazy. Hes alleged to have grabbed a fire extinguisher and sprayed it everywhere and trashed the place, tearing up books and throwing them everywhere, throwing around CDs, and breaking pictures, as well as believed to have broken a window. The Orange County Sheriffs Office received a call at 8:30 a.m. from the Mission Hills Church in Mission Viejo, CA, saying that a possible burglary was in progress. When officers arrived, they found two floors of the church covered in white fire extinguisher spray. The place was also trashed. When they got to the second floor, they said that they found Miller naked, sitting on a couch. He said his name was Mayhem but he appeared to be totally coherent. He was taken in, arrested on burglary charges, and they may also add vandalism charges, and held on $20,000 bond at the Intake Release Center in Santa Ana. He was released at 1 a.m. that night after posting bond. Miller, 31, was taken in for a medical evaluation. Over the weekend, Miller had got into a twitter war with Dana White where he eventually told White to kill himself. White talked about it two days before the incident and talked about how Miller is on meds and even though he says hes fine, hes probably not in a very good place right now. What I thought was telling was Dan Henderson, who Miller has trained extensively with, when asked on UFC Tonight about the situation, said that when he heard about it, he wasnt surprised. Miller was probably going to be cut by UFC after his loss to C.B. Dollaway on 5/26, but a backstage incident at the show guaranteed it. Miller then announced his retirement. There were reports that Miller got mad at someone backstage regarding getting drinks, and Miller claimed he got mad at Burt Watson of UFC who wouldnt allow him to put on a gas mask as part of his ring entrance. Miller and White never got along since Miller was so into the show being from Japan, where Miller would call his fighting style pro wrestling (not unusual there and in those days helped get you a following) and do elaborate ring entrances. Miller would wear a feathered boa like Jesse Ventura at weigh-ins and White felt he wasnt taking things seriously enough and didnt allow him to do the kind of entrances he had done. When he was booked, he listed his occupation as being a comedian. Miller had a couple of prior arrests, including in 2005 in Honolulu, where he was living at the time, when he was alleged to have kicked open the door of his girlfriends apartment and attacking a man he found with her. He was found not guilty in a 2006 trial where he was charged with first degree burglary, third degree assault and fourth degree criminal property damage. Miller claimed the man attacked him first and he was fighting back. By the time the trial took place, he had gotten back with his girlfriend. Last year he was accused of assaulting his sister where it was alleged they were at a party in North Carolina and his sister wanted to leave and Miller put her in a headlock and wouldnt let her go. She eventually escaped and called the authorities and he was arrested. On twitter after that incident, he wrote, Sorry Im not live tweeting anymore. Watching UFC on DVR. Had to wrestle my sister. Nothing came of that charge either. Two years ago, Miller got into the cage after Jake Shields had beaten Dan Henderson and challenged Shields to a rematch. He was then shoved and attacked by several of Shields friends including Gilbert Melendez and the Diaz Brothers. The incident led to CBS deciding to no longer air MMA and Showtime to decide to never let Miller appear on their station again. Because of that, Miller ended up in UFC, where he coached last falls Ultimate Fighter against Michael Bisping.
Regarding the middleweight division, Dana White said he considers Chris Weidman the No. 1 contender, saying he defeated No. 3 Mark Munoz in a totally one-sided fashion. He also said Anderson Silva wouldnt fight again in 2012 (the last we heard they were talking about him headlining in Brazil in early 2013 unless they go with Silva vs. GSP provided GSP beats Carlos Condit, in which case theyd probably book it in a Domed stadium in North America or Las Vegas) and that its not necessarily against Weidman. Id still wait for the Michael Bisping vs. Brian Stann fight on 9/22. Weidman may be the best guy in the division, but he needs more time to make a name. Bisping has a name, but anything less than an impressive win over Stann and Weidman would have the edge head-to-head the way Id see it.
Jay Hieron, the former IFL lightweight champion, returns to UFC on 9/1 as the replacement for Josh Koscheck in facing Jake Ellenberger. Hieron beat Ellenberger via decision back in 2006. Hieron left Strikeforce and then left Bellator over his inability to get a title shot.
Hector Lombard said that he had a fractured sternum as well as torn cartilage when he fought Tim Boetsch on 7/21. He said he suffered the injury in training before the fight and in hindsight felt that he never should have fought. I figured wed get something said after that performance, just kind of weird it came out three weeks after the fight. I do buy it because he was a completely different person in that fight than hes been in every other fight.
Regarding Anderson Silva and weight, Silva in 2006, when he was 30, was in a tournament in Hawaii at 174 pounds. He fought as light as 167 when he was younger. Theres been tons of talk of Silva vs. GSP in a catch weight fight. The thing is, when it comes to real size, Silva is every bit of 6-2 and 220, although at 185, probably fights at 205 to 210. Jon Jones is 6-4 and probably 225, and Id guess fights at about 220. GSP is 5-10 and fought at 187 until the Jake Shields fight, where he fought at more than 190 and while it was all muscle, he was too slow since his whole takedown game isnt a strength game but a speed and quickness game. If Silva can make 170, given his status as the greatest fighter ever, he should get a shot at GSP if GSP beats Condit. At 170, its a fair fight. Silva would probably go in around 190-195 so hed have a few pounds in the cage but lots of guys have that. Even at a 178 catch weight, Silva is going in at 200 while GSP may go in at 195, but the added weight would work against him in his strengths. Plus, GSP is 31 and coming off ACL replacement. Hes a super athlete, but he will not be superman when he loses his speed and hes going to be 20 months between fights in November which is a long time. As far as the fight and what weight, thats up to GSP and his camp and what they are wiling to accept and push for, but GSP going into a fight heavier than 187-188 is probably not a good idea so a catch weight past 173 I think compromises him.
The idea right now of creating a 115 pound weight class is a bad idea. They havent created one star under 155 except Urijah Faber, and hes now pretty much faded from the top after his last loss. I wouldnt be negative about adding a 115 pound class at the right time, but now isnt that time. When 145, 135 and 125 have been established and you can draw with the top guys, then consider it. If youve got guys who are so small they cant compete at 125, right now, they arent going to be marketable to the public. One of the biggest complaints Ive heard regularly this year isnt the championship matches involving smaller guys, which do have some interest, but the idea of one match after another with smaller guys that people dont know and arent caring about.
Regarding Tim Sylvia facing Daniel Cormier, as was originally talked about (Sylvia got a contract for the fight before being told they had changed their mind), White said that neither he nor Lorenzo Fertitta ever considered Sylvia for that match. White said Strikeforce matchmaker Sean Shelby started to move on the fight but he was never on board, nor was Lorenzo Fertitta. There are those in the company who clearly dont want Sylvia in which is why I was surprised when his name surfaced. But from Shelbys standpoint, what names were available on the outside as a heavyweight for Cormier? Sylvia and Andrei Arlovski and Arlovski probably charges more (since Sylvia was desperate to get back in), and of the two, Arlovski is more skilled and the last thing youd want to do is have Cormier lose to an outsider you cant promote going forward since Arlovski has so many losses, and is also expensive. And I dont think Arlovski would have much of a chance against Cormier but you cant book based on the idea you know who is going to win, because nobody knows who is going to win. So from his perspective, Sylvia was the best of no good choices. But when they allowed Mir to go over, that changed the dynamic completely. Mir vs. Cormier will generate far more interest than Cormier vs. Sylvia, and I see no upside in Sylvia.
The bad blood between Josh Koscheck and former trainer Javier Mendez of American Kickboxing Academy got so bad that in a clip from the reality show on the AKA crew that was released in advance (the show debuts on 8/15 on Nuvo TV), there was a conversation as Koschecks Fresno home with an uncomfortable Jon Fitch where he said he hoped the AKA gym burned down. Fitch responded by saying that if it happens, he hopes he isnt in it.
and apparently King Mo is fighting Babalu or some such shit
anyway, McKayalata!
Jon Jones became the first UFC fighter to get a worldwide Nike deal (Yoshihiro Akiyama got one in Japan; Anderson Silva has one in Brazil). Theyll be marketing a Jon Jones product line and hell be in commercials that will air everywhere. Its a big step in taking him from a star in a secondary sport to a major sports figure, which is of course, depending on him staying at or near the top. Its an interesting deal because Nike will try to market Jones as this super athlete babyface to the general public as the face of the sport, even though hes actually a heel to the fans of the sport. A lot of fans are negative toward him, seeing him as phony, but he makes a great impression to executives, good-looking, dresses well, speaks well, is actually kind of funny and is the kind of guy you want repping you on talk shows. Plus the feeling in that world is this is a new major sport with the FOX deal and Jones is going to be on top for years so youre getting a future Kobe Bryant or Tony Hawk type guy in the early stages of his run. Funny how the perception differs from the actual fan perception both of the sport and of Jones. With the worldwide scope of the deal, provided Jones continues to win and stays out of trouble, he would be expected within a relatively short period of time to be the biggest name in the sport. There will be Jon Jones shoes and Jon Jones gear marketed. Time will tell, but right now I dont see Jones as that kind of guy that people want to buy en masse his signature merchandise, but the idea is to market him to a more casual and new fan base as opposed to the MMA hardcore base.
Catching up on some business numbers. The 12/30 Brock Lesnar vs. Alistair Overeem PPV did about 535,000 buys. Thats far less than original projections and predictions. As for why, there are two conclusions you can come to. The first is that Lesnar losing the title and his health issues hurt his aura as a draw, even though the two giant heavyweights going at it promotion was good and it was still on Spike with a strong performance by Overeem in the Countdown show. Overeem had never been in UFC, and didnt look good in his prior Strikeforce fight with Fabricio Werdum even though he won. The other was it was a Friday night show and as silly as that sounds, I did think that was going to hurt somewhat. While UFC and WWE are different in a sense when it comes to winning and losing and drawing power, the argument that Lesnar lost to Velasquez and came back and drew big with Overeem isnt quite accurate.
For the 7/14 Strikeforce show in Portland, the show drew 4,186 to the Rose Garden, which was 1,625 paying $132,905. Strikeforce hasnt been able to sell tickets to any of their shows this year except the Rousey vs. Tate fight and even that wasnt anything special unless you compare it to the other shows this year. The pay for the show was Luke Rockhold ($100,000), Tim Kennedy ($55,000), Nate Marquardt ($70,000), Tyron Woodley ($43,500), Roger Gracie ($63,000), Keith Jardine ($30,000), Lorenz Larkin ($33,000), Robbie Lawler ($95,000), Pat Healy ($38,000), Mizuto Hirota ($5,150 - this is one of those international deals most likely), Ryan Couture ($18,000), Joe Duarte ($8,000), Jorge Masvidal ($46,000), Justin Wilcox ($12,000), Jordan Mein ($13,000), Tyler Stinson ($4,000), Jason High ($10,000) and Nate Moore ($9,000).
Jason Mayhem Miller was arrested on 8/13 and charged with burglary after bizarre behavior where its alleged he broke into a church and went crazy. Hes alleged to have grabbed a fire extinguisher and sprayed it everywhere and trashed the place, tearing up books and throwing them everywhere, throwing around CDs, and breaking pictures, as well as believed to have broken a window. The Orange County Sheriffs Office received a call at 8:30 a.m. from the Mission Hills Church in Mission Viejo, CA, saying that a possible burglary was in progress. When officers arrived, they found two floors of the church covered in white fire extinguisher spray. The place was also trashed. When they got to the second floor, they said that they found Miller naked, sitting on a couch. He said his name was Mayhem but he appeared to be totally coherent. He was taken in, arrested on burglary charges, and they may also add vandalism charges, and held on $20,000 bond at the Intake Release Center in Santa Ana. He was released at 1 a.m. that night after posting bond. Miller, 31, was taken in for a medical evaluation. Over the weekend, Miller had got into a twitter war with Dana White where he eventually told White to kill himself. White talked about it two days before the incident and talked about how Miller is on meds and even though he says hes fine, hes probably not in a very good place right now. What I thought was telling was Dan Henderson, who Miller has trained extensively with, when asked on UFC Tonight about the situation, said that when he heard about it, he wasnt surprised. Miller was probably going to be cut by UFC after his loss to C.B. Dollaway on 5/26, but a backstage incident at the show guaranteed it. Miller then announced his retirement. There were reports that Miller got mad at someone backstage regarding getting drinks, and Miller claimed he got mad at Burt Watson of UFC who wouldnt allow him to put on a gas mask as part of his ring entrance. Miller and White never got along since Miller was so into the show being from Japan, where Miller would call his fighting style pro wrestling (not unusual there and in those days helped get you a following) and do elaborate ring entrances. Miller would wear a feathered boa like Jesse Ventura at weigh-ins and White felt he wasnt taking things seriously enough and didnt allow him to do the kind of entrances he had done. When he was booked, he listed his occupation as being a comedian. Miller had a couple of prior arrests, including in 2005 in Honolulu, where he was living at the time, when he was alleged to have kicked open the door of his girlfriends apartment and attacking a man he found with her. He was found not guilty in a 2006 trial where he was charged with first degree burglary, third degree assault and fourth degree criminal property damage. Miller claimed the man attacked him first and he was fighting back. By the time the trial took place, he had gotten back with his girlfriend. Last year he was accused of assaulting his sister where it was alleged they were at a party in North Carolina and his sister wanted to leave and Miller put her in a headlock and wouldnt let her go. She eventually escaped and called the authorities and he was arrested. On twitter after that incident, he wrote, Sorry Im not live tweeting anymore. Watching UFC on DVR. Had to wrestle my sister. Nothing came of that charge either. Two years ago, Miller got into the cage after Jake Shields had beaten Dan Henderson and challenged Shields to a rematch. He was then shoved and attacked by several of Shields friends including Gilbert Melendez and the Diaz Brothers. The incident led to CBS deciding to no longer air MMA and Showtime to decide to never let Miller appear on their station again. Because of that, Miller ended up in UFC, where he coached last falls Ultimate Fighter against Michael Bisping.
Regarding the middleweight division, Dana White said he considers Chris Weidman the No. 1 contender, saying he defeated No. 3 Mark Munoz in a totally one-sided fashion. He also said Anderson Silva wouldnt fight again in 2012 (the last we heard they were talking about him headlining in Brazil in early 2013 unless they go with Silva vs. GSP provided GSP beats Carlos Condit, in which case theyd probably book it in a Domed stadium in North America or Las Vegas) and that its not necessarily against Weidman. Id still wait for the Michael Bisping vs. Brian Stann fight on 9/22. Weidman may be the best guy in the division, but he needs more time to make a name. Bisping has a name, but anything less than an impressive win over Stann and Weidman would have the edge head-to-head the way Id see it.
Jay Hieron, the former IFL lightweight champion, returns to UFC on 9/1 as the replacement for Josh Koscheck in facing Jake Ellenberger. Hieron beat Ellenberger via decision back in 2006. Hieron left Strikeforce and then left Bellator over his inability to get a title shot.
Hector Lombard said that he had a fractured sternum as well as torn cartilage when he fought Tim Boetsch on 7/21. He said he suffered the injury in training before the fight and in hindsight felt that he never should have fought. I figured wed get something said after that performance, just kind of weird it came out three weeks after the fight. I do buy it because he was a completely different person in that fight than hes been in every other fight.
Regarding Anderson Silva and weight, Silva in 2006, when he was 30, was in a tournament in Hawaii at 174 pounds. He fought as light as 167 when he was younger. Theres been tons of talk of Silva vs. GSP in a catch weight fight. The thing is, when it comes to real size, Silva is every bit of 6-2 and 220, although at 185, probably fights at 205 to 210. Jon Jones is 6-4 and probably 225, and Id guess fights at about 220. GSP is 5-10 and fought at 187 until the Jake Shields fight, where he fought at more than 190 and while it was all muscle, he was too slow since his whole takedown game isnt a strength game but a speed and quickness game. If Silva can make 170, given his status as the greatest fighter ever, he should get a shot at GSP if GSP beats Condit. At 170, its a fair fight. Silva would probably go in around 190-195 so hed have a few pounds in the cage but lots of guys have that. Even at a 178 catch weight, Silva is going in at 200 while GSP may go in at 195, but the added weight would work against him in his strengths. Plus, GSP is 31 and coming off ACL replacement. Hes a super athlete, but he will not be superman when he loses his speed and hes going to be 20 months between fights in November which is a long time. As far as the fight and what weight, thats up to GSP and his camp and what they are wiling to accept and push for, but GSP going into a fight heavier than 187-188 is probably not a good idea so a catch weight past 173 I think compromises him.
The idea right now of creating a 115 pound weight class is a bad idea. They havent created one star under 155 except Urijah Faber, and hes now pretty much faded from the top after his last loss. I wouldnt be negative about adding a 115 pound class at the right time, but now isnt that time. When 145, 135 and 125 have been established and you can draw with the top guys, then consider it. If youve got guys who are so small they cant compete at 125, right now, they arent going to be marketable to the public. One of the biggest complaints Ive heard regularly this year isnt the championship matches involving smaller guys, which do have some interest, but the idea of one match after another with smaller guys that people dont know and arent caring about.
Regarding Tim Sylvia facing Daniel Cormier, as was originally talked about (Sylvia got a contract for the fight before being told they had changed their mind), White said that neither he nor Lorenzo Fertitta ever considered Sylvia for that match. White said Strikeforce matchmaker Sean Shelby started to move on the fight but he was never on board, nor was Lorenzo Fertitta. There are those in the company who clearly dont want Sylvia in which is why I was surprised when his name surfaced. But from Shelbys standpoint, what names were available on the outside as a heavyweight for Cormier? Sylvia and Andrei Arlovski and Arlovski probably charges more (since Sylvia was desperate to get back in), and of the two, Arlovski is more skilled and the last thing youd want to do is have Cormier lose to an outsider you cant promote going forward since Arlovski has so many losses, and is also expensive. And I dont think Arlovski would have much of a chance against Cormier but you cant book based on the idea you know who is going to win, because nobody knows who is going to win. So from his perspective, Sylvia was the best of no good choices. But when they allowed Mir to go over, that changed the dynamic completely. Mir vs. Cormier will generate far more interest than Cormier vs. Sylvia, and I see no upside in Sylvia.
The bad blood between Josh Koscheck and former trainer Javier Mendez of American Kickboxing Academy got so bad that in a clip from the reality show on the AKA crew that was released in advance (the show debuts on 8/15 on Nuvo TV), there was a conversation as Koschecks Fresno home with an uncomfortable Jon Fitch where he said he hoped the AKA gym burned down. Fitch responded by saying that if it happens, he hopes he isnt in it.
and apparently King Mo is fighting Babalu or some such shit
anyway, McKayalata!
http://pushkickpromotions.com/
FYI, live muay Thai in LA this Saturday and for those who can't be there live, event will be streamed free.
FYI, live muay Thai in LA this Saturday and for those who can't be there live, event will be streamed free.
TheKaeptain
Banned
Dream I am a few more post away from contacting Blackace via Facebook.
TheKaeptain
Banned
I want to see who will call Carl Lewis a cheater.
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
Well, I grew up in arguably the most backwards part of Scotland (if not the entire UK.) No trains in the entire region, a monopolising bus company that price gauges the hell out of everything, and only one hourly bus to the nearest city that takes almost two hours. I even got shot down for a job because I don't drive.
But yeah, I've spent the last three years largely in Gyeonggi-do, Tokyo and Taipei. The transport system here is cheap and near-flawless.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Hey Dream:
Rafa=FedKilla
Banned
Damn at this McKayla broad. I would watch Jon Fitch matches on infinite loop for the rest of my life just to cuddle up with her for an episode of Gilmore Girls.
parrotbeak
Member
We're not on the same continent and honestly I'd rather not have my name mentioned in the same post with them right now.
JOKE IS GOING TOO FAR
nice friend.
what my good friend dream and young chamber fail to realize is that they are tarnishing our impeccable forum reputation. how can we hold the moral high ground when we are harboring these perverts?
dream its not too late to edit out those pictures and avatar with Olympic champion sue bird or some other American female of legal age.
parrotbeak
Member
What i've been doing is copypasting the essays into my gmail and reading them like i'm reading work email.
dream
Member
I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding here. What I, and the rest of McKayla Maroney Admirers-GAF, appreciate about sweet McKayla is her speed, her lift, her body control, and her explosiveness. Being the best vaulter in the world and having to settle for second place because of a youthful mistake makes her even more compelling in our eyes.
Should we just treat them like toddlers and ignore their poor behavior? I'd hate for Franca to go scorched earth and turn our safe haven into a police state.
I think I'm going nerd chat exclusive until this post-Olympic era of madness has concluded.
TheKaeptain
Banned
Rousey is classless. I hope she gets her face smashed.
dream
Member
God, she's like Chael without the charm. When he goes way over the line and becomes a caricature, it's somehow endearing. She's just a twat about it. It's not even in the same context or league as when Frank said he wanted Brock to be the first Ultimate Death. This is just disturbing.
parrotbeak
Member
I think you guys are taking her out of context. She had that one fight where the girl pretended her arm wasn't about to be snapped off and since then Honda keeps going till the ref stops it. She's just saying she'll do the same with a choke or tko. She's never kept going after the ref ended it, like BJ and others have done.
Honda is amazing, physically, athletically, and as a person.
Honda is amazing, physically, athletically, and as a person.
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
She's selling the fight as she always does. And it works.
That quote is coming from the same guy who is supposed to be an unbiased commentator but practically sucked Badr Hari dick when he beat Overeem in 09.
hot rod honda rousey drawing this much heat on mma-gaf is just proof positive that she has potential to be fighter of the year 2012. rousey/tate had the best build up and execution of a main event in forever, and for a strikeforce girl fight no less. think about how shitty the ultimate is when you can honestly say that without snickering.
when she chokes out or takes kaufman's arm home tomorrow, the legend of hot rod grows. only liberace's, pederasts, and bisping fans disagree.
when she chokes out or takes kaufman's arm home tomorrow, the legend of hot rod grows. only liberace's, pederasts, and bisping fans disagree.
I think of her as their Whore of Babylon.
Agreed! I'm a fan since her outspoken and heartfelt warning to the horny athletes during the recent Olympic Games!
I also admire, from a purely aesthetical viewpoint, her ESPN cover!
I appreciate you don't think of me as a pederast...
lol.
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