Modern Games Vs. Old Games, A.K.A how games have regressed
- Thread starter Signalis
- Start date
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
Yeah, it's easy to cherry pick results to make nostalgia/outrage videos.
In pretty much every example shown (reflections, fluid dynamics, environments, etc.. etc..), you can find modern games that are far more impressive than older games. But that wouldn't get the outrage clicks so they aren't shown in this video.
In pretty much every example shown (reflections, fluid dynamics, environments, etc.. etc..), you can find modern games that are far more impressive than older games. But that wouldn't get the outrage clicks so they aren't shown in this video.
The Cockatrice
I'm retarded?
Disagree on some aspects, but yeah AI and physics have gone downhill severely.
Geometric-Crusher
"Nintendo games are like indies, and worth at most $19" 🤡
$80
Signalis
Member
Then please show us some videos that prove it wrong?
Dacvak
No one shall be brought before our LORD David Bowie without the true and secret knowledge of the Photoshop. For in that time, so shall He appear.
A lot of cherry-picked stuff for sure, but the lack of destructibles and physics-based gameplay has been sorely missed this 10+ years.
But overall I agree with the video. I think, specifically, almost all western AAA games have gotten worse (or at least stale) over the last decade.
On the plus side, it's a great time to be a retro gamer lol.
But overall I agree with the video. I think, specifically, almost all western AAA games have gotten worse (or at least stale) over the last decade.
On the plus side, it's a great time to be a retro gamer lol.
Zacfoldor
Member
It's cherrypicking. Games are a series of parts and refinement. Not every game has the same parts.
If we decided to make a game that could NOT be cherrypicked to be in this video, first we would need to create a list of minimum requirements.
That list would be 100 items long by the time we got finished debating it.
Imagine the monumental task it would be to create a game that did not fail a single one using a game engine as a service.
Because the above process is price restrictive, no one will do that. Instead they will try their best to plug those 100 holes. 2 or 3 may get thru. That is what the video is about, those 2 or 3. Now go back and look at your shitty old game and compare it to the same list and there will be 40 holes and some QOL issues you never dreamed of in your worst nightmare. I'm tired boss. Real tired.
If we decided to make a game that could NOT be cherrypicked to be in this video, first we would need to create a list of minimum requirements.
That list would be 100 items long by the time we got finished debating it.
Imagine the monumental task it would be to create a game that did not fail a single one using a game engine as a service.
Because the above process is price restrictive, no one will do that. Instead they will try their best to plug those 100 holes. 2 or 3 may get thru. That is what the video is about, those 2 or 3. Now go back and look at your shitty old game and compare it to the same list and there will be 40 holes and some QOL issues you never dreamed of in your worst nightmare. I'm tired boss. Real tired.
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LordOcidax
Member
Game physics.
wafflecioccy
Member
Doom Dark Ages has very good physics
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
I would say the only advantage modern games have over older games from the PS1 and PS2 Era is that they tend to have QOL features that help if you have a busy lifestyle. But there's are lot of QOL features in these older games if you use an emulator so there's that
LordOcidax
Member
That was the norm back in the Ps3 / 360 era.
Geometric-Crusher
"Nintendo games are like indies, and worth at most $19" 🤡
I must say that on average the quality has increased, some games shown are dedicated games
also in some cases the details did not make the games more fun or did not increase sales.
also in some cases the details did not make the games more fun or did not increase sales.
vpance
Member
It's the race to the bottom in all forms of entertainment.
Mainstream audiences fucking things up once corpos figured out the formula to make deceptive low value addictive games.
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
Why would I waste my time doing that? I'd rather just avoid these shitty dishonest videos altogether.
Dr.Morris79
Gold Member
It's hardly dishonest, it's just a video showing games. Most of us played these games
It's not hard to see there has been a decline over the years in some standards and no one should be made to feel bad for showing them
Not really sure where the venoms coming from in your post, these are just cuts of games
I've noticed these things over the years, so has everyone else. It's not exactly new
wafflecioccy
Member
Not the same quality as is seen in Doom...
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
It's hardly dishonest, it's just a video showing games. Most of us played these games
It's not hard to see there has been a decline over the years in some standards and no one should be made to feel bad for showing them
Not really sure where the venoms coming from in your post, these are just cuts of games
I've noticed these things over the years, so has everyone else. It's not exactly new
I just find purposeful misinformation built around dishonest cherrypicked results to be tiresome and a microcosm of the outrage driven gaming community at large nowadays.
Waste of time and is only built to pile on to the victimhood perception that's so popular today around so many fandoms.
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Liopleurodon
Member
Not gonna watch that shitty grifter video.
roosnam1980
Member
really good video , AI and physics took a nose dive in recent years.
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Dr.Morris79
Gold Member
I don't know. I watched it, I've played pretty much every game on there and can agree that quite a few features from old games should be industry standard by now as a basic.
I don't really care who provides things I already know, most on Gaf probably know this stuff too, with or without the video.
Especially destruction. That's been in games from years before, it should be a basic now.
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
Stuff like this requires skilled coders, and what we have working in these Western companies right now is the complete opposite of skilled coders.
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Instant_Classic
Member
Games have progressed visually but regressed in every other area.
Instant_Classic
Member
Progress has slowed, regardless.
The Fartist
Gold Member
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
I think a better comparison would be to look at the design of a game like System Shock 2 and compare that to what passes in the genre today in terms of level design, mechanics bloat, etc. That remaster was pretty eye-opening. It's more nuanced than just "old games were better" across the board, though I do think we've taken several steps backwards in a lot of areas of design that matter most.
Wolzard
Member
Yesterday I was playing Mafia on PC, the 2002 version, and I see how weak today's games are in terms of immersion.
- I was driving when suddenly the police gave me a ticket, then chased me, and then arrested me. Then I discovered that I had exceeded the speed limit;
- Cars shift gears, even if you put them in automatic, you see the shift on the HUD and hear the gear shift noise. Even the engine reacts differently depending on the gear change;
- Crashing your car means saying goodbye to it. The wheels can bend, the engine can start to misfire. And it doesn't have to be a hard crash;
- On the street, cars flash their high beams and honk their horns;
- When trying to destroy a car, you can destroy parts independently, such as windows, bodywork, accessories, etc.;
- Car explosions throw objects everywhere, and can hit you if you are close;
- NPCs have very realistic behaviors, they walk around, light a cigarette, read a newspaper;
- Dogs bite you if you trespass on any property;
- Taxi service depends on your traffic education and travel schedule;
- Passengers ask if the taxi is free and inform where they are going;
- When shooting, bullet marks remain where they were shot and shells fall to the ground;
- Characters seem more serious, conversations are more dry and have ambient sound. New games tend to act like movies;
- I was driving when suddenly the police gave me a ticket, then chased me, and then arrested me. Then I discovered that I had exceeded the speed limit;
- Cars shift gears, even if you put them in automatic, you see the shift on the HUD and hear the gear shift noise. Even the engine reacts differently depending on the gear change;
- Crashing your car means saying goodbye to it. The wheels can bend, the engine can start to misfire. And it doesn't have to be a hard crash;
- On the street, cars flash their high beams and honk their horns;
- When trying to destroy a car, you can destroy parts independently, such as windows, bodywork, accessories, etc.;
- Car explosions throw objects everywhere, and can hit you if you are close;
- NPCs have very realistic behaviors, they walk around, light a cigarette, read a newspaper;
- Dogs bite you if you trespass on any property;
- Taxi service depends on your traffic education and travel schedule;
- Passengers ask if the taxi is free and inform where they are going;
- When shooting, bullet marks remain where they were shot and shells fall to the ground;
- Characters seem more serious, conversations are more dry and have ambient sound. New games tend to act like movies;
roosnam1980
Member
only game that matches SS2 experience in recent memory is prey 2017
immersive sims dont sell i guess
bender
What time is it?
GymWolf
Member
he is probably cherry picking but one would think that after 15 years, the fear ai could be translated into a much bigger environment.
Tlou2 at least try to do something even if it is most smoke and mirrors and that game has some huge levels sometimes.
The halo had great ai and their levels were huge.
It's not proposterous to hope for great ai in open world games, not after so much time.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
STALKER 2 did pretty damn well. I'd count that as part of the genre.
Laptop1991
Member
I agree with this video and i played a lot of them old games at the time, they are better than most games now but we have lost that technology forever lol, terrible excuse for we cant do it because we don't want to learn and the bosses don't want to make them anyway.
Fess
Member
It's actually very dishonest.
The least they could do is showing games from the same developer and the same IP. Instead of using Avowed as an example for how lacking npc reactivity and world physics and interactions are on modern games, show Starfield, or rather The Elder Scrolls VI when it's out. Same developer, same IP. Have things regressed?
But that wouldn't make a fun video since Bethesda is still obsessed about including stuff like that in their games.
It's like using Zelda TOTK to show how lackluster climbing and traversal animations are on modern games. Then use Uncharted 1 as an example on how great animation were in the past. And pretend that TLOUp2 don't exist.
This video is dishonest cherry picking.
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GymWolf
Member
No it didn't, the stealth and enemy ai was way too broken and it's still broken after many patches, you can straight up watch videos that test the last 2 big patches.
Stalker 2 was a good immersive sims as much as redfall was one.
bender
What time is it?
Halo probably would have been a better comparison, but it's not just the size of the environment. Far Cry is designed to allow players to have multiple approaches to encounters, including stealth which naturally means AI is going to need to be dumbed down. What's the famous quote? To paraphrase: All enemy AI is dumb, it just can't be so obvious that your players notice how dumb it really is. Now if you excuse me, I need to take a shower as I've defended Far Cry of all games.
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Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
I'm just talking sales figures, which seemed strong at launch at least.
bender
What time is it?
I think it has a lot to do with increased object density to create more believable game worlds which is not only expensive to create, but increases the difficulty of implementing other systems in a similar believable fashion not to mention how hardware taxing that could be.
Wildebeest
Member
Its okay in 20 years time when everyone has raytracing cards that don't suck they will be able to make games almost as good as ones made in 2002.
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TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
Yeah no shit the graphics are going to be
Modern games have stagnated. All they are able to offer is dumb shit like RTX but nothing in terms of gameplay or immersion. I just played Thief a few days ago and how is it possible that a game from 1998 has better sound design than modern games? Shit's crazy.
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Shadowstar39
Gold Member
I notice this all the time as someone who plays a lot of older games and new games.
I noticed it this morning when booting up System Shock 2 remaster on my switch.
The audio was different, every where you go reflected a different environment.
Also the small attention to detail. Posters matched, people doing their own thing and acting realistically to you.
Could also be this style of game isn't done anymore either.
System Shock, Half-life, Thief, Deus Ex, Splinter cell, all have some a feel and design that is missing in modern games.
More immersive environment storytelling, less beating you over the head with cut-scenes and spectacle.
I believe this was the gold age of immersive single player fps - the time when PCs were top dog with new 3d graphics cards and all the companies trying to push the tech. The Sound blaster live was also a thing with EAX and true 3d audio. Something that was discarded after vista for onboard cheapo realtek chips. Without hardware sound and new technology, the devs didn't push it. So many games back then had better sound, better effects for 3d audio (hearing footsteps or other sounds that were directional).
Then pc and console merged. The tech wasn't being pushed as much late ps4.
Environments are larger, due to open world, so little details are no longer done.
I noticed it this morning when booting up System Shock 2 remaster on my switch.
The audio was different, every where you go reflected a different environment.
Also the small attention to detail. Posters matched, people doing their own thing and acting realistically to you.
Could also be this style of game isn't done anymore either.
System Shock, Half-life, Thief, Deus Ex, Splinter cell, all have some a feel and design that is missing in modern games.
More immersive environment storytelling, less beating you over the head with cut-scenes and spectacle.
I believe this was the gold age of immersive single player fps - the time when PCs were top dog with new 3d graphics cards and all the companies trying to push the tech. The Sound blaster live was also a thing with EAX and true 3d audio. Something that was discarded after vista for onboard cheapo realtek chips. Without hardware sound and new technology, the devs didn't push it. So many games back then had better sound, better effects for 3d audio (hearing footsteps or other sounds that were directional).
Then pc and console merged. The tech wasn't being pushed as much late ps4.
Environments are larger, due to open world, so little details are no longer done.
It's a lot of cherry picked examples, but also a lot of these little details came from crunch culture.
Everyone would have to work 80hr weeks but realistically only some departments were behind - so the fx & engine teams would have to fill their time with something else that added to the game. Some of those other examples are where the particular effects was a critical cornerstone of the game design.
None of those effects are a click of a checkbox in an engine - they're carefully coded, situational responses to specific things happening. Someone has to play the game, think 'damn it would be nice to do that', and then have the time to actually do it. Only the third step is missing from modern development. The amount of shit that gets noticed, written down, but the priority level never allows it to be assigned to someone to work on would make your heads spin.
Everyone would have to work 80hr weeks but realistically only some departments were behind - so the fx & engine teams would have to fill their time with something else that added to the game. Some of those other examples are where the particular effects was a critical cornerstone of the game design.
None of those effects are a click of a checkbox in an engine - they're carefully coded, situational responses to specific things happening. Someone has to play the game, think 'damn it would be nice to do that', and then have the time to actually do it. Only the third step is missing from modern development. The amount of shit that gets noticed, written down, but the priority level never allows it to be assigned to someone to work on would make your heads spin.
Shadowstar39
Gold Member
I know people dispute this, but I truly believe windows vista killing sound blaster and EAX really killed devs motivation to do good sound design.
Before that Soundblaster bundled games with their hardware and had deals with publishers to use their tech. The devs had to work environmental audio into games, make it impressive and showcase it.
All that stopped or seemed to stop after vista removed almost all sound card support except for el cheapo realtek /mb solutions or expensive xfi cards.
My work horse sound blaster live from 2000, had to be put to pasture.
People say realtek mb software sound is just as good as eax, and dedicated hardware, I don't believe it.
The on board chips may have some parity now, but the desire to leverage 3d audio and environmental effects isn't there.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Some of this is due to modern games being more complex not less. Instead of scripted actions and reactions there is a game logic that can fail.
Someone above posted a comparison video between Mafia and the remake. In one part you can see people jumping out of the way of the car in the same scripted manner in the original whereas in the remake they sometimes jump out the way sometimes kind of just stand there or try and walk around. The latter is more complex but there are parts where it looks dumb.
Someone above posted a comparison video between Mafia and the remake. In one part you can see people jumping out of the way of the car in the same scripted manner in the original whereas in the remake they sometimes jump out the way sometimes kind of just stand there or try and walk around. The latter is more complex but there are parts where it looks dumb.
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