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[Loomy]

Remember when Final Fantasy 16 mention of sexual abuse towards (If I'm not mistaken) children was removed by localization?
It wasn't portrayed in a good light, a VILLAIN did that.

Did the Moon Studios CEO not negotiate a contract with Microsoft in the first place? Did that contract not involve lots of money?

If not then why did you sign such a contract with Microsoft?

He got paid when he signed with GamePass

I will not buy Ori, I already supported them by playing it on GP

Don't like the terms, don't do the deals

He signed a deal to make a the game on gamepass, money for the studio changed hands. If he needs more money he can sell another game to GP or make a new game to sell.


ORI games are excellent.

It's a Microsoft published game. They can put all their games on Gamepass. I doubt Moon got extra money for the game being on gamepass since they don't own the IP.

 

[squidilix]

But phil says....

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Did the Moon Studios CEO not negotiate a contract with Microsoft in the first place? Did that contract not involve lots of money?

If not then why did you sign such a contract with Microsoft?

Most likely they vastly underestimated how popular the game would be so in the end they got a flat X amount of money and are not butthurt calculating how much money they could have gotten if you had to buy the game.

 

[clarky]

Did the Moon Studios CEO not negotiate a contract with Microsoft in the first place? Did that contract not involve lots of money?

If not then why did you sign such a contract with Microsoft?

Exactly. What a dick.

 

[onnextflix5]

He just means, it was one time payment, he won't get penny no matter how many people play the game on gamepass, maybe he should have signed a better contract

 

[Clintizzle]

Lol another GamePass is bad for the industry thread....

 

[jakinov]

It's a Microsoft published game. They can put all their games on Gamepass. I doubt Moon got extra money for the game being on gamepass since they don't own the IP.

The game is published by Microsoft on Steam too. If the studio makes money from sales of the game that implies that they likely have a revenue sharing agreement. On it landing on gamepass, unless Microsoft made it being on the platform in perpetuity as part of their deal when signing together (which is essentially a payout baked into the deal), then they likely gave some sort of payout to developers to distribute the game in perpetuity or a very long number of years after. Just putting games on gamepass like that can open them up to lawsuits. Lawsuits that publishers/distributors almost never win in these types of vertical integration cases.

The reason the developers are asking people to buy the game because new steam sales is new revenue which his studio would actually get a part of as they would have already got a payout for it being on gamepass already. It's the equivalent of a TV production studio telling you to go buy Friends on DVD/TV because they already sold the streaming rights for the next 5 years for $500M and no matter how much you watch on streaming doesn't make them more money but buying it on DVD/Digital does.

 

[LavitzSlambert]

They did make money from that transaction, though. It was quite transparent. Xbox gives you _____ amount of money, your game goes on Game Pass for _______ length of time. Sign here. Money is deposited into Moon's business account. Money they didn't have before, and money they wouldn't have gotten otherwise from Xbox-specific individual title sales. Not after that amount of time after the game had launched. It had run it's course.

They can look back on it a few years later and say "Yeah we won't do a Game Pass deal again for *reasons*", but it's not like they did it and got nothing in return. No doubt the money from the Game Pass deal has allowed them to bankroll some of the development on their next game.

I was saying there is no other way to answer a gamer/consumer asking that question, since now (post Game Pass deal) they do not get any extra money for people playing Ori there. No argument that the deal helped Moon in the past, but anyone who wants to support Moon now - there is really only one way to do so, and that is buy the game outright.

 

[Ozriel]

Doesn't sound like he has any malice for MS. He's just saying if you want to go out of your way to support the studio then buy the game directly.

He certainly crushed a whole lot of narratives with this

Ori is a game published by MS so the Ori devs aren't getting any additional payments for Gamepass plays. But they do for Steam purchases due to how their contract was put together.

Pretty much why he'd promote the Steam release now in 2024.

 

[Mercador]

Well, I guess he didn't have a contract with Microsoft for the third one?

 

[FrankWza]

 

[Spyxos]

Weren't the Moonstutios kicked out by Microsoft? There was some kind of beef between the two.

 

[ozz ex machina]

Can I just say whenever I see this CEOs tweets posted he seems like an insufferable prick. One of those personalities that highlights how downhill the industry has gone in the last 20 years.

 

[BigLee74]

Greedy bastard will already have made money having it on Gamepass in the first place.

 

[adamsapple]

Doesn't sound like he has any malice for MS. He's just saying if you want to go out of your way to support the studio then buy the game directly.

Moon Studio says Indie games wouldn't exist on console without Microsoft.

Shit that seems like a way more important thing to make a thread over.

 

[Action Jackson]

Can I just say whenever I see this CEOs tweets posted he seems like an insufferable prick. One of those personalities that highlights how downhill the industry has gone in the last 20 years.

The guy was already a prick long before he rose to fame with Ori. Back then he was providing his hot takes on a German message board…

 

[Ozzie666]

Xbox have conditioned their customers to buy gamepass, at the expense of real game sales. Gamepass is the message and reason to buy the console.
Nintendo has conditioned a massive loyal audience for Nintendo exclusives. People buy their consoles for those exclusives.
Sony had conditioned people to buy PS for exclusives and great world wide support.

Maybe the studio signed a poor upfront cash deal, while companies like Square probably got paid millions and incentives.

 

[kruis]

Moon Studio says Indie games wouldn't exist on console without Microsoft.

Shit that seems like a way more important thing to make a thread over.

The Xbox 360 was the first console with an online store. That made it possible for indie studios to publish and sell smaller games without having to press physical discs and compete with big titles in retail stores. Particularly in the early days those indie games got a lot of attention because there was hardly any competition on that front.

 

[xrnzaaas]

He just means, it was one time payment, he won't get penny no matter how many people play the game on gamepass, maybe he should have signed a better contract

I think all Game Pass contracts are like that - you get a one time payment and that's it. No extras if more people than usual install your game.

I get what he's saying, I just hope he's okay with not working with MS anymore in the future.

 

[Lokaum D+]

i dont buy GP games, if u wanna sell your game dont put it on a subscription service.

 

[The Cockatrice]

I bought it on steam day one. Second best metroidvania after Hollow Knight.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Moon Studio says Indie games wouldn't exist on console without Microsoft.

Shit that seems like a way more important thing to make a thread over.

Those summer of XBLA games were dope. Meatboy and Braid kinda blew up on Xbox.

 

[adamsapple]

I think all Game Pass contracts are like that - you get a one time payment and that's it. No extras if more people than usual install your game.

They aren't.

Xbox chief reveals more about how developers earn money through Game Pass

Phil Spencer says Microsoft's deals with developers are 'all over the place.'

www.pcgamer.com

"[In] certain cases, we'll pay for the full production cost of the game. Then they get all the retail opportunity on top of Game Pass. They can go sell it on PlayStation, on Steam, and on Xbox, and on Switch. [...] Sometimes the developer's more done with the game and it's more just a transaction of, 'Hey, we'll put it in Game Pass if you'll pay us this amount of money.'"

"Others want [agreements] more based on usage and monetization in whether it's a store monetization that gets created through transactions, or usage. We're open [to] experimenting with many different partners, because we don't think we have it figured out. When we started, we had a model that was all based on usage. Most of the partners said, 'Yeah, yeah, we understand that, but we don't believe it, so just give us the money upfront.'"

 

[GametimeUK]

Net Yaroze on PS1 demos discs all day. Fuck XBLA it didn't introduce me to anything.

 

[Shut0wen]

Did the Moon Studios CEO not negotiate a contract with Microsoft in the first place? Did that contract not involve lots of money?

If not then why did you sign such a contract with Microsoft?

He wants continuous support and soul his sold to never have it via one console

 

[ShadowkillXNA]

Developer Moon Studios gained its popularity in the gaming industry by developing the games Ori and the Blind Forest in 2015 and Ori and the Will of the Wisps in 2020.Both games were developed in partnership with Xbox Game Studios and obviously for this reason, both are available right now to play via Xbox Game Pass.

However, according to Moon Studios' CEO on social media, Thomas Mahler Gennadiy, playing Ori and the Blind Forest and Ori and the Will of the Wisps via Xbox Game Pass doesn't help the studio, and he recommends that players buy their copies via Steam:





When asked "Why not on the Xbox store?", he replied





He also said Ori on PlayStation is up to Phil Spencer:

 

[chromatic9]

Sounds like his contract is more lump sum upfront and at that time very important.

This is the tricky thing with sub service, it can be beneficial getting you started being paid upfront. Devs with more bargaining power or awareness can ask for tiered contract and to mirror steam sales to some extent and vary accordingly. For MS they want to get games cheap as possible, too many belts and braces from the devs can make it unsustainable from MS point of view.

It would be interesting to know about the Palworld contract, it's great to get upfront funding but you also need to be wise beforehand if the game goes viral and get compensated for that in the contract. You could when starting off let MS clean up and they get a bargain. It's also a grey area in subscribers checking the game out equaling a sale, how long they play. Steam sales could be a strong case to point to in wanting such and such an amount in a contract.

 

[StereoVsn]

The second game started development before the 'Day 1 on GP' strategy happened. It must also be a big reason as to why they're not working with MS anymore.

Yep, they got probably a low ball contract back 9-10 years ago for both OG Ori and Ori 2 (see BG3 and why Larian doesn't work with MS).

It's almost a decade later and the money has long been paid so they don't get jack shit from people going to GamePass and playing.

Hence why he is saying if you want to support the studio buy the game. Steam is probably best for them since I think they self publish there.

 

[Kumomeme]

 

[JordiENP]

Next time do a deal with nintendo, they will sell your games for 60 for a decade. Stonks

 

[Havoc2049]

Yep, they got probably a low ball contract back 9-10 years ago for both OG Ori and Ori 2 (see BG3 and why Larian doesn't work with MS).

It's almost a decade later and the money has long been paid so they don't get jack shit from people going to GamePass and playing.

Hence why he is saying if you want to support the studio buy the game. Steam is probably best for them since I think they self publish there.

The Ori games are published by Microsoft on Steam.

We don't know what kind of contract Moon Studios has with MS in regards to Game Pass. Even if it was a usage contract, they would still probably make more selling a copy of the game on Steam.

 

[damidu]

Did the Moon Studios CEO not negotiate a contract with Microsoft in the first place? Did that contract not involve lots of money?

If not then why did you sign such a contract with Microsoft?

probably because he forgot to charge his crystal ball to see a decade into the future lol

i know it's difficult to come to terms with the fail of gamepass for some, but stop getting ultra defensive each time, it's getting tiring.

 

[IFireflyl]

Moon Studio says Indie games wouldn't exist on console without Microsoft.

Shit that seems like a way more important thing to make a thread over.

You and I don't always see eye-to-eye, but on this we definitely agree. Too many people focused on the wrong part of the message and/or took what he said out of context. I think Microsoft, and the Xbox/Microsoft Gaming division in particular, has made a lot of mistakes, but I'm with Thomas in that I do not want Microsoft to close shop and exit the market. I just want Microsoft to learn from their mistakes and be better.

EDIT: If they screw up Fable, I'm going to track Phil Spencer down, piss in his coffee, and watch (from a distance) as he takes a drink.

 

[justiceiro]

Should have made epic store exclusive, for maximum returns.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Because they took a lump sum payment like most devs do.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

am I missing something?

He posted the links to buy the games on steam and not xbox.

why not xbox? cuz people get in on game pass.

i mean...where is the drama?

they are an independent studio after all.

 

[RickSanchez]

What he wants is double dipper sales.

I don't think this is what he's saying. He was asked how we can support the Studio directly. That obviously means buying the game. Playing the game on GamePass does not directly help the studio financially. Exposure does not directly convert to dollars. He's giving a direct answer. Spinning it to look like he's greedy doesn't help anyone.

Don't like the terms, don't do the deals

Easier said than done. You need a lot of money to develop great games like Ori. That means making a deal with a publsiher, which is basically like choosing one of many evils. Not everybody gets to be a Larian or a CDPR.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

They make money if people buy it on Steam.
They make less if people buy it on Xbox.
They don't make anything if people play it on GamePass.

What's the big deal here?

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Fucking did my part yo! Bought the original Ori, the Definitive Editions on Xbox and Switch, and Ori 2 on Xbox.

 

[intheinbetween]

People have been double dipping, or even triple dipping on Ori. I understand he wants to sell more copies but man don't blame it on Game Pass

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

They make money if people buy it on Steam.
They make less if people buy it on Xbox.
They don't make anything if people play it on GamePass.

What's the big deal here?

yep, I don't get it. I thought being salty over the side effects of Game Pass was over.

 

[Lionel Richie]

i mean...at this point if you have dignity there is no point to spin Game Pass as positive for the industry, right?

you can love it but you should be aware that that was a snake-oil sales pitch from our favorite executive.

You do realize that Snoy has their own Snoy Pass, right? Surely Game Pass can't be that bad if it led to a copycat.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

You do realize that Snoy has their own Snoy Pass, right? Surely Game Pass can't be that bad if it led to a copycat.

Damn, you went from 0 to 60 and skipped all the context built up over the years.

 

[Codes 208]

This the same ori dev that keeps biting the hand that feeds him?

 

[Shakka43]

That game sucked.

Best games in Xbox's library over the last decade, easily.

 

[buenoblue]

Did the Moon Studios CEO not negotiate a contract with Microsoft in the first place? Did that contract not involve lots of money?

If not then why did you sign such a contract with Microsoft?

Exactly. It's like when games are Epic store exclusives and people hate on epic or they are AMD sponsored and don't include dlss.
The devs took money to do this shit so they can't complain about any backlash. No one is forcing this stuff

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

This the same ori dev that keeps biting the hand that feeds him?

I don't think. the other tweets show the opposite.

but I think people are confusing the point of the original tweet

 

[ahtlas7]

He has the contract remorse.

 

[Starbuck2907]

i mean...at this point if you have dignity there is no point to spin Game Pass as positive for the industry, right?

you can love it but you should be aware that that was a snake-oil sales pitch from our favorite executive.

Well, I get to play a ton of games for cheap and the leaks from 2023 showed that Microsoft is paying 10's of millions of dollars to publishers to put games on there, and they even may be paying over $100 million in some cases. They wanted Jedi Survivor but they figured EA would want $300 million. It was on their list so it was a game that was at least on their radar.

Moon seems to have signed a console exclusive deal with Microsoft, which likely means that Microsoft can put it on there without paying them much, or anything. MS probably owns the game outright if they paid for the development. But hey, at least they did fund it and give us a great pair of games.

 

[StueyDuck]

I vaguely remember this dev being a huge console warrior around the xbone ps4 period.

Particularly the ps4 pro vs xbonex

I wonder why the tune has changed now