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[rodrigolfp]

A windows OS running on x86 doesn't need to emulate or translate anything. These are all Windows technologies, the calls get sent to the Windows 11 NT kernel.

But don't the OSs and APIs still have significant differences?? Otherwise all Xbox's could already "easily" run PC games.

 

[Ozriel]

I hate that they're discussing next-gen and all this other B.S. Talk about GAMES, most people are fine with current hardware offerings.

Making this post a day before their Gamescom conference where they are set to talk about games is certainly a choice.

Not a wise one, but a choice nonetheless.

 

[Ozriel]

What console? Consoles now have PC architecture, the games are written on a PC which makes porting a breeze.
I think we can all agree Microsoft absolutely doesn't know what to do hence "everything is an Xbox because our games are there". By this definition everything is a computer because you can run a web browser

Microsoft: "We're in the middle
of making dedicated hardware for our next console and these are the features…"

You: "we can all agree Microsoft absolutely doesn't know what to do"

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

My thoughts go out to HeisenbergFX4 who is having to work overtime to inform people that the next Xbox is in fact....a console.

I am done with it

 

[StereoVsn]

Lets wait and see the price. The concept is widely compelling, but perhaps not for traditional console users if they are given the choice between regular(ish) console pricing and a multifunction console/PC that actually has mid range PC pricing.

It's also not going to be appealing for a lot of PC users, IMO. Also, Surface hardware traditionally has been expensive and both MS and partners will need to make a profit here.

Upgradability will be mostly absent, and it's not clear how much flexibility we will have on OS side. Could we run different mods, storefronts, emulation, applications, cheats, etc.? Can we disable the telemetry and CoPilot bullshit?

MS is risking alienating Xbox gamers (high price and more complexity) while not really attracting PC gamers. Either way it's going to be interesting to see the hardware and MS pitch.

 

[Punished Miku]

I am done with it

Way to go bender

 

[rodrigolfp]

I just want to elaborate on HeisenbergFX4's point; He means that the hybrid machine Xbox is trying to build, HAS to be called a console in order to minimize liability. Emulation of Xbox titles via software would be legally challenged.

From what we found out a few weeks back, the plan is to shrink the Xbox hardware into a chip, which is incorporated into a PC. Any and all Xbox games that are not play-anywhere would run through this chip and thus satisfy the hardware requirement. On the other hand any and all new Xbox titles have Play Anywhere designation, so they can run via the regular PC route.

The machine would be a console for the purpose of running BC titles, while acting as a PC for anything else.

As I mentioned before, this setup is well known. Sony did this for PS2 and even 1st generation of PS3, squeezing the hardware of the previous gen into the new gen's guts for compatibility. So it is not new to gamers.

The question always is how expensive hardware would cost out of the gate, since BC titles don't earn money and PC games can be cheaper through steam. It just seems Xbox is determined to test the theories of some weird ideas that Neogaf has came up with. Like the idea of Series S being floating around here for the last decade until it actually happened.

Then it is not a console. At minimum it is a PC with a console chip for BC only.

 

[Allandor]

My hoped for the Xbox handheld is, that Microsoft finally optimizes its os for performance and also for handheld usage.
My rog ally is still good, the OS is a real bummer so far. Can't use steam OS because than the gamepass titles wouldn't work.

 

[bitbydeath]

Then it is not a console. At minimum it is a PC with a console chip for BC only.

I think that was what D DeltaPolarBear was saying.

HAS to be called a console in order to minimize liability.

MS are trying to fool people into thinking it's a console to avoid lawsuits.

 

[rodrigolfp]

I think that was what D DeltaPolarBear was saying.



MS are trying to fool people into thinking it's a console to avoid lawsuits.

Yes, I am just asserting my initial point that people quoted saying it is a console. At very best it has an extremely limited console portion in it for BC.

 

[Darsxx82]

The Ally should be a cut down or something similar to this.

it was revealed that it uses the Ryzen AI Z2 Extreme. and that SoC has a 50 TOPS NPU.

so it was known yes.

Well, I went to the Asus ROG website and the description includes this... I

"And that's not all. The Xbox Ally X is also built for what comes next with an onboard NPU. This AI-ready hardware is capable of supporting entirely new forms of generative game development utilizing complex language and other unique, never-before-seen experiences. No matter what the future of gaming holds, the ROG Xbox Ally to be ready."

I guess it was known, but this paragraph from WC really threw me off because it can be interpreted as a separate NPU chip. I guess this is a mistake or a bad description from WC?


"Microsoft will "start experimenting" with some of these AI-powered features on the upcoming Xbox Ally X device, because it has a dedicated NPU chip just like Microsoft's Copilot Plus PCs."

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

Then it is not a console. At minimum it is a PC with a console chip for BC only.

As long as it is a console for BC purposes, Xbox is in legal clearance. The BC is the only thing that keeps some fans around, so they had to keep it or it is not worth doing. Contractually they are able to run Xbox versions of games made by third parties on their own hardware. And everything else that is new would have Play Anywhere and thus would just run the PC version.

But WHY? The dream is to convert existing Xbox Gamepass Ultimate users into PC Ultimate tier Gamepass users. This is why the Ultimate Xbox Gamepass Tier grants you PC Gamepass automatically. The most profitable part of Gamepass needed to be preserved and transplanted to PC intact, or so they hope. We will see if the plan actually succeeds or not.

 

[Rosoboy19]

its a console

I'm curious what this means for cross gen games. There is a big gap in hardware power between that magnus apu and a Series S.

I wonder if we'll see some games cross gen installable on Series X but only cloud play available on Series S.

 

[viveks86]

I'm curious what this means for cross gen games. There is a big gap in hardware power between that magnus apu and a Series S.

I wonder if we'll see some games cross gen installable on Series X but only cloud play available on Series S.

This never happened between cross gen games that ran on series X and Xbox One base. The difference there was 9x. No reason for it to happen now.

Cross gen, by nature, won't push the higher end hardware to its fullest. But this might actually be the first time it's easy to do so and still see major visual differences. Turn on path tracing for one and off for the other.

 

[bender]

Way to go bender

 

[clappedcheeks]

Yes, you could say PC. PC trumps consoles for sure, its also a tinkerers preferred system.

Still, consoles offer better value at launch, anyone buying a system from now to a couple of years into launch of the next gen system will get better hardware with one of the consoles.

They are rumoured to be 5080 level for under $1k mark. For sure it will offer better value, till PC hardware outpaces it entirely.

I'm pretty sure that HeisenbergFX4 has implied the big boy console is north of 1K as it's not being subsidised. They also don't want to piss off 3rd party vendors.

 

[Jigsaah]

I'm still in. I'm a PC guy. Finding it hard to see a downside here.

 

[clappedcheeks]

Hey HeisenbergFX4 I know this is getting in the weeds but have you heard any "rumours" of seamless integration of all windows apps with the console?

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Hey HeisenbergFX4 I know this is getting in the weeds but have you heard any "rumours" of seamless integration of all windows apps with the console?

Sorry I know nothing about that

 

[Det]

Xbox canceled its native handheld to launch a portable PC with a "this is an Xbox" sticker.

It's going to be another stupid piece of shit that some suit-wearing guy invented as a "masterplan," and everyone else had to agree because it's all "yes man" there.

 

[Clear]

I'm still in. I'm a PC guy. Finding it hard to see a downside here.

The downside is all the money is made from software licensing. And to differentiate between licensed and unlicensed software you need to ring fence one off from the other.

They won't be making any money on the hardware, and they can't make money on software that exists outside their walled garden... so how do you think the business model is going to work?

I mean, they still have to sell XBL subs despite PC-titles not needing them. So if you think this is some sort of benevolent union on MS' part I'd say think again. This is obviously some sort of Trojan Horse strategy and that being the case you need to think of what this particular "gift" being offered is hiding.

 

[Jigsaah]

The downside is all the money is made from software licensing. And to differentiate between licensed and unlicensed software you need to ring fence one off from the other.

They won't be making any money on the hardware, and they can't make money on software that exists outside their walled garden... so how do you think the business model is going to work?

I mean, they still have to sell XBL subs despite PC-titles not needing them. So if you think this is some sort of benevolent union on MS' part I'd say think again. This is obviously some sort of Trojan Horse strategy and that being the case you need to think of what this particular "gift" being offered is hiding.

I'm talking about seeing the downside as a consumer. I don't give a shit about a trillion dollar company's bottom-line. I want a good handheld with good ergonomics, mobility outside of remote play, good battery life and access to a good majority of the games I own on PC.

 

[Kacho]

Ronald was talking about making the experience "magical." Okey dokey.

Seems like this was just reiterating what they've been saying for past year. The fake questions at the end were hilarious. "Will my controllers and peripherals work on the Xbox Ally?"

Once the Ally drops it's full steam ahead on their real future plans. Time to make good on their Xbox Anywhere plans. Our expectations are set in stone. Time to nail it.

 

[Clear]

I'm talking about seeing the downside as a consumer. I don't give a shit about a trillion dollar company's bottom-line.

Yeah, but Microsoft as a publicly traded mega-corp is primarily driven by a desire for growth. If they are embarking on this course of action they are seeking growth, so it seems prudent to me to wonder from where that growth is intended to come and at who's expense.

If they sought coexistence with the existing PC gaming ecosystem they would pivot to a pure software publishing model. That they aren't and are instead maintaining a console platform model within the PC space despite it offering no advantages to their business really ought to raise people's antennae!

 

[Punished Miku]

Once the Ally drops it's full steam ahead on their real future plans. Time to make good on their Xbox Anywhere plans. Our expectations are set in stone. Time to nail it.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Im not going to listen to any of their marketing mumbo jumbo anymore.

Im going to keep an open mind and wait for reviews and feedback from people I trust on any up and coming devices from MS.

If they are genuinely good products ill buy them. If they work well and allow steam games thats nothing but a win for me but they have to sell it to me by making a good product.

 

[Jigsaah]

Yeah, but Microsoft as a publicly traded mega-corp is primarily driven by a desire for growth. If they are embarking on this course of action they are seeking growth, so it seems prudent to me to wonder from where that growth is intended to come and at who's expense.

If they sought coexistence with the existing PC gaming ecosystem they would pivot to a pure software publishing model. That they aren't and are instead maintaining a console platform model within the PC space despite it offering no advantages to their business really ought to raise people's antennae!

That's for them to figure out. People said the same thing about Gamepass. How is it profitable? They are bleeding money, they are cannabalizing sales. People so interested in pocket watching while all I care about is are the games good and how much do I have to pay to play them.

I mean I get where you're coming from if you care about how is Xbox making money...I'm sure they appreciate the sentiment because that's all they care about too. Maybe they have something set up with different store fronts, maybe they don't. Even if whatever monetization model they are running fails, they are hypersensitive to their bottom line and will be forced to pivot. Gamepass hasn't forced them to pivot...yet. We'll see how this turns out.

In the meantime, I'm enjoying the fruit of new brands of competition.

 

[Kacho]

My thoughts exactly.

They've been spinning their wheels with this PR for a really long time. Trying to get everything into place I guess. They keep talking about investing in that future. Hoping that bears fruit.

 

[Timberwolf25]

Yeah, but Microsoft as a publicly traded mega-corp is primarily driven by a desire for growth. If they are embarking on this course of action they are seeking growth, so it seems prudent to me to wonder from where that growth is intended to come and at who's expense.

If they sought coexistence with the existing PC gaming ecosystem they would pivot to a pure software publishing model. That they aren't and are instead maintaining a console platform model within the PC space despite it offering no advantages to their business really ought to raise people's antennae!

That's the goal of all big companies, so I don't know why you are trying to single out MS here.
Sony is doing the same, but also going multi-plat as they see their walled garden having finite growth. Eventually, you may even see some titles on Switch

 

[Clear]

That's for them to figure out. People said the same thing about Gamepass. How is it profitable? They are bleeding money, they are cannabalizing sales. People so interested in pocket watching while all I care about is are the games good and can how much do I have to pay to play them.

I mean I get where you're coming from if you care about how is Xbox making money...I mean I'm sure they appreciate the sentiment because that's all they care about too. Maybe they have something set up with different store fronts, maybe they don't. Even if whatever monetization model they are running fails, they are hypersensitive to their bottom line and will be forced to pivot. Gamepass hasn't forced them to pivot...yet. We'll see how this turns out.

In the meantime, I'm enjoying the fruit of new brands of competition.

I think you're missing my point, which is simply trying to predict what their next move is, and how that will impact consumers.

 

[xrnzaaas]

What the fuck is a first party console? Are we going back to 3DO days?

 

[Punished Miku]

They've been spinning their wheels with this PR for a really long time. Trying to get everything into place I guess. They keep talking about investing in that future. Hoping that bears fruit.

Sounds like it'll be pretty close to exactly what I asked for. Asked for 1) backwards compatibility, 2) open store, 3) Gamepass, 4) Windows big picture mode that shows games from all stores. That's pretty much everything. I appreciate that they told everyone their plans pretty far in advance so it hasn't been much of a mystery honestly. I just was agreeing that I think they're trying to wait for the ROG since it will not have the full BC chip stuff, so it makes sense to stagger these out a bit.

 

[viveks86]

Our expectations are set in stone. Time to nail it.

If only nails and stones got along...

 

[Jigsaah]

I think you're missing my point, which is simply trying to predict what their next move is, and how that will impact consumers.

Ok, I'll play. I predict their next move is to release the Xbox Ally and X this year. I predict they will release a new console in 2027, one that has some form of hybrid pc design both in terms of software availability and hardware. I predict that they will continue to spread their eggs into as many baskets as possible. I predict they will make money mainly through subscriptions and partnerships with other PC, console and maybe even mobile platforms.

How will this affect consumers? Both pros and cons:
Cons
- We will own nothing.
- Loss of exclusivity could mean loss of brand identity at least in the way we've come to know and love.
Pros
- Lack of ownership trades for increased access to the games we buy licenses for, meaning ability to play games anywhere.
- Loss of exclusivity means consumers have more choice without being paywalled into purchasing multiple consoles/platforms.
- Software prices could sustain for longer, despite the likes of Nintendo fighting tooth and nail to change it.
- New competition on a new battlefield. Platform Wars begin...hopefully breeds more innovation and excellence.

 

[mayham2199]

Ok, I'll play. I predict their next move is to release the Xbox Ally and X this year. I predict they will release a new console in 2027, one that has some form of hybrid pc design both in terms of software availability and hardware. I predict that they will continue to spread their eggs into as many baskets as possible. I predict they will make money mainly through subscriptions and partnerships with other PC, console and maybe even mobile platforms.

How will this affect consumers? Both pros and cons:
Cons
- We will own nothing.
- Loss of exclusivity could mean loss of brand identity at least in the way we've come to know and love.
Pros
- Lack of ownership trades for increased access to the games we buy licenses for, meaning ability to play games anywhere.
- Loss of exclusivity means consumers have more choice without being paywalled into purchasing multiple consoles/platforms.
- Software prices could sustain for longer, despite the likes of Nintendo fighting tooth and nail to change it.
- New competition on a new battlefield. Platform Wars begin...hopefully breeds more innovation and excellence.

I'd as price as a con as well. There's no way we get access to 3rd party stores and subsidized consoles.

 

[Jigsaah]

I'd as price as a con as well. There's no way we get access to 3rd party stores and subsidized consoles.

Yea I think the days of 4-500 dollar consoles are done. the Xbox Ally X rumoured to be $900...Jesus.

 

[Fess]

Yea I think the days of 4-500 dollar consoles are done. the Xbox Ally X rumoured to be $900...Jesus.

The ROG Xbox Ally X is still ASUS product, just co-designed with Microsoft, there was no way they would undercut their own Ally.

 

[rm082e]

So long as their tentpole franchises (not Activision stuff) are Halo, Gears, and Forza Horizon, I still don't care. They need some new IPs.

 

[Loxus]

Well, I went to the Asus ROG website and the description includes this... I

"And that's not all. The Xbox Ally X is also built for what comes next with an onboard NPU. This AI-ready hardware is capable of supporting entirely new forms of generative game development utilizing complex language and other unique, never-before-seen experiences. No matter what the future of gaming holds, the ROG Xbox Ally to be ready."

I guess it was known, but this paragraph from WC really threw me off because it can be interpreted as a separate NPU chip. I guess this is a mistake or a bad description from WC?


"Microsoft will "start experimenting" with some of these AI-powered features on the upcoming Xbox Ally X device, because it has a dedicated NPU chip just like Microsoft's Copilot Plus PCs."

That's just poor wording.
The CPU, GPU and NPU are all on the same chip with the Z2 Extreme. It's an APU.

 

[Ozriel]

So long as their tentpole franchises (not Activision stuff) are Halo, Gears, and Forza Horizon, I still don't care. They need some new IPs.

Bringing back talking points from 2015?

Lmao @ 'not Activision stuff' and editing in 'Horizon' into that outdated mantra.