demigod
Member
So its an xbox that runs steam with bc but no different sdk from xbox and xbox pc?
Updates on the Xbox Ally, Play Anywhere, Game Pass, and More | Official Xbox Podcast
- Thread starter HeisenbergFX4
- Start date
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
They've already tanked the current gen.
bitbydeath
Member
I think it's a console in advertising only, and that's the line MS has/will be feeding out which is where the confusion is coming in.
If it's running Steam natively it is a PC, there's no if's or but's on that from a technical perspective.
Guardian Monkey
Member
It's already been announced by AMD. The apu will have Xbox code for old console games. The new Xbox games are more or less pc game containers. The new Xbox devices with these chips will play old Xbox console digital games. The new Xbox will be a streamlined Windows/xbox system that will be able to play other games with other launchers.
bitbydeath
Member
Yep, I've been saying that too.
It makes sense for it to be BC only, and have everything new running out of the Windows PC store.
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Ashamam
Member
From that I take it Steam and nothing else. So an application specific VM of sorts I guess. But from your earlier comments OEM's will enable full windows on their devices, which then leaves the question of whether they will allow the reverse, an XBox VM of sorts.
Point being there has to be a host OS for these devices, and comments around it being a console suggest its not Windows. But if its not Windows then any storefronts running will need some type of wrapper, begging the question of how the 'new' OS is licensed to third parties, if at all.
Because if the host OS is Windows then its not a console, its a PC. Even if it has a Big Picture overlay of sorts.
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bender
What time is it?
The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
You make it sound like it's a bad thing.
foamdino
Member
If we consider the Magnus silicon to be the next-gen XBox, then we can make some good predictions:
Windows will need to be adjusted - something they are already doing for the Ally etc. But in terms of booting, UEFI and TPM already supports this sort of behaviour - and Microsoft already run some form of virtualisation for XBox back compat (it will be based on HyperV, no need to re-invent anything here).
Licensing won't be an issue *if* there is a clear line between a generic PC and an XBox PC (which in this case would be a simple install of the hw keys in the factory) - so there will not be a "install this sw on your intel/Zen+nvidia PC and it will act like an XBox app".
All the pieces are there for Microsoft to decouple themselves from the silicon design and instead concentrate on software and form factor (Surface team + Microsoft traditional sw expertise). The design goals going forward will be to sell for a profit, use off-the-self parts and ensure that AMD has early access to directx api changes etc so that the GPU side can be optimal designed around that API. It's the first sensible thing Microsoft has done in 15 years - drop the custom design work and focus on their traditional strengths.
It will *not* sell like hotcakes, it will be low volume and it will be expensive and it is effectively Microsoft giving up on hw - but again they should have done this years ago.
- It is a collection of off the shelf Zen6+Zen6c cores
- It uses chiplets (one for the Zen cores, one for the gpu part)
- It uses an off the shelf RDNA5 GPU that is attached to the Zen6 cores
Windows will need to be adjusted - something they are already doing for the Ally etc. But in terms of booting, UEFI and TPM already supports this sort of behaviour - and Microsoft already run some form of virtualisation for XBox back compat (it will be based on HyperV, no need to re-invent anything here).
Licensing won't be an issue *if* there is a clear line between a generic PC and an XBox PC (which in this case would be a simple install of the hw keys in the factory) - so there will not be a "install this sw on your intel/Zen+nvidia PC and it will act like an XBox app".
All the pieces are there for Microsoft to decouple themselves from the silicon design and instead concentrate on software and form factor (Surface team + Microsoft traditional sw expertise). The design goals going forward will be to sell for a profit, use off-the-self parts and ensure that AMD has early access to directx api changes etc so that the GPU side can be optimal designed around that API. It's the first sensible thing Microsoft has done in 15 years - drop the custom design work and focus on their traditional strengths.
It will *not* sell like hotcakes, it will be low volume and it will be expensive and it is effectively Microsoft giving up on hw - but again they should have done this years ago.
bitbydeath
Member
Sarah already indicated that they're moving to Windows for their next OS.
Microsoft just came right out and said that the next Xbox will be a PC
It will probably have Steam on it
www.polygon.com
I expect they'll be building off the Rog Ally OS.
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DeltaPolarBear
Member
I just want to elaborate on HeisenbergFX4's point; He means that the hybrid machine Xbox is trying to build, HAS to be called a console in order to minimize liability. Emulation of Xbox titles via software would be legally challenged.
From what we found out a few weeks back, the plan is to shrink the Xbox hardware into a chip, which is incorporated into a PC. Any and all Xbox games that are not play-anywhere would run through this chip and thus satisfy the hardware requirement. On the other hand any and all new Xbox titles have Play Anywhere designation, so they can run via the regular PC route.
The machine would be a console for the purpose of running BC titles, while acting as a PC for anything else.
As I mentioned before, this setup is well known. Sony did this for PS2 and even 1st generation of PS3, squeezing the hardware of the previous gen into the new gen's guts for compatibility. So it is not new to gamers.
The question always is how expensive hardware would cost out of the gate, since BC titles don't earn money and PC games can be cheaper through steam. It just seems Xbox is determined to test the theories of some weird ideas that Neogaf has came up with. Like the idea of Series S being floating around here for the last decade until it actually happened.
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HeisenbergFX4
Member
I dont mind you are continuously wrong, I will stop trying to help you, trust meDon't be sorry.
ZehDon
Member
If my old-E3-gamer senses are correct, this would be the primer before the hype cycle season. So, I suspect Xbox is gearing up to talk about its new hardware before the end of the year. 2026 launch maybe?
I'm super curious about the integration logistics and end user presentation. Is this intended to be seamless - like the current integration of Xbox, Game Pass, EA Connect, and Ubisoft+, where the only indicator as to the source of the game in your library are little platform logos on the title cards? Or does Steam get its own tab and theming so the end user has clearly entered "Steam mode". Their PC app integration makes me think the former, but if its full platform integration - complete with its own store and its own pricing - I'd imagine the latter would be the more desirable. Curiouser and curiouser.
Then they'll have a sale from me - a console that handles my Xbox library and my Steam library is a no-brainer for me.
I'm super curious about the integration logistics and end user presentation. Is this intended to be seamless - like the current integration of Xbox, Game Pass, EA Connect, and Ubisoft+, where the only indicator as to the source of the game in your library are little platform logos on the title cards? Or does Steam get its own tab and theming so the end user has clearly entered "Steam mode". Their PC app integration makes me think the former, but if its full platform integration - complete with its own store and its own pricing - I'd imagine the latter would be the more desirable. Curiouser and curiouser.
Wastelander92
Member
I want AI Clippy to greet me every time I turn it on.Does it include free trial of office 365?
UltimaKilo
Gold Member
I hate that they're discussing next-gen and all this other B.S. Talk about GAMES, most people are fine with current hardware offerings.
hououinkyouma00
Member
They've already given you so many amazing totally not mediocre games though!
bitbydeath
Member
Hopefully next-gen won't be anything as boring as the simple addition of path tracing. Cutting development time has to be a major focus, and I don't just mean through AI but rather cutting everything to the bone. Kill ray-tracing entirely if it means getting games out sooner.
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RickMasters
Gold Member
To be fair it's been sort of known for a while by anybody who has been paying attention to the news.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
Just don't expect the hardware price to be less than 4 digits, if real life PC prices are anything to go buy.
RickMasters
Gold Member
The Xbox ally already runs steam, Epic, GOG and any other store. It stand to reason that the next Xbox will do the same.
RickMasters
Gold Member
I think by next gen the hardware will be able to run visually complex, visually dense games at 60FPS with ray tracing in a native 4K. To be honest if every game looked as good as cyberpunk or clair obscure, I would be happy. We don't need more realist hair, grass etc. we need the current high visual settings to become the norm at 60FPS . Graphics are not going to get much better than what we have now. Devs should focus on RT with 60 fps at 4K.
ZehDon
Member
Oh, I'm prepared for sticker shock. If the hardware integrates with other storefronts, then it'll need to be sold at a profit - so it'll already be much more expensive. And if the hardware is as capable as some of leaks suggest, then $1200.00 is the minimum. Microsoft will need some big ticket fancy looking games to make that attractive to the mainstream, but for me, I'm in. Unless they somehow manage to Xbone it
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Ashamam
Member
Its a PC, of course it does. Its when MS and others here label the device a console that suddenly there a number of potential pathways to the current expected functionality.
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ReasonBeing
Member
Sounds like they are going to allow users to sub to cloud gaming outside of GamePass Ultimate. I'm curious to see what they price it at. I game on the cloud often from my phone, mostly GeForce Now, but have used Xcloud occasionally when I buy a month of GamePass.
pacman4000
Member
So...the only significant difference between the Xbox Console and the Xbox PCs (other than that the console is made by MS and the PCs are made by 3rd parties) is that that the console has a "locked" OS (MS has full control over which apps can be installed) and the PC has an "open" OS (the user decides which apps to install, i.e. Windows PC as we know it today)?
I assume that outside of the APU the Xbox PCs can be configured (by the 3rd party manufacturers, not the end user) in different ways. Be it memory/storage size, form factor and what not.
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ChorizoPicozo
Member
Incredibly Bright, one could say.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
ChorizoPicozo
Member
yes. Also, one could say that Xbox will start to report "console" sales numbers again.
Oh wow is this what Sarah Bond was talking about in terms of amazing new experiences? Seems like mega dissapointment inbound. It wasn't about performance at all, just extra transistors to handle additional stores beyond xbox....
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bender
What time is it?
Are you cancelling this weekends pitching lessons, dad?
Sounds like the "xbox console" released by the Surface team is going to have the integrated series chip and full hardware BC. While the xbox versions released by other oems won't have an integrated series chip or BC, just access to the PC versions.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
yes. Also, one could say that Xbox will start to report "console" sales numbers again.
Anything's possible, it's a bright future afterall, remember?
Loxus
Member
kevboard
Member
it was revealed that it uses the Ryzen AI Z2 Extreme. and that SoC has a 50 TOPS NPU.
so it was known yes.
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PlayStaytion
Member
Honestly, now I only care about games using current gen hardware closer to %100 including 16c cpu like BF6
Anything else is just secondary.
Anything else is just secondary.
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PlayStaytion
Member
That's not sarcasm. They're just being technical here but I still think it's possible.
Jaguar Victory
Member
It's pretty compelling to anyone other than fanboys. Console that plays PC games too. Best of both worlds. Should run 3rd party VR too. We shall see.
Ashamam
Member
Lets wait and see the price. The concept is widely compelling, but perhaps not for traditional console users if they are given the choice between regular(ish) console pricing and a multifunction console/PC that actually has mid range PC pricing.
vaibhavpisal
Member
This is bigger move than Gamepass.
I don't see how competition can answer this.
Although I don't see this as being particularly marketable item. Particularly to casuals. So sales could be low.
But am pretty sure this will be a great as main system for core gaming audience.
I don't see how competition can answer this.
Although I don't see this as being particularly marketable item. Particularly to casuals. So sales could be low.
But am pretty sure this will be a great as main system for core gaming audience.
Cyberpunkd
Member
What console? Consoles now have PC architecture, the games are written on a PC which makes porting a breeze.
I think we can all agree Microsoft absolutely doesn't know what to do hence "everything is an Xbox because our games are there". By this definition everything is a computer because you can run a web browser there.
Cyberpunkd
Member
There is already a system like that, it's called ROG Ally.
vaibhavpisal
Member
Yes, you could say PC. PC trumps consoles for sure, its also a tinkerers preferred system.
Still, consoles offer better value at launch, anyone buying a system from now to a couple of years into launch of the next gen system will get better hardware with one of the consoles.
They are rumoured to be 5080 level for under $1k mark. For sure it will offer better value, till PC hardware outpaces it entirely.
Steve Holt
Member
Surprised they let Jason Ronald anywhere near the next gen machines after the Series S mess.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
My thoughts go out to
HeisenbergFX4
who is having to work overtime to inform people that the next Xbox is in fact....a console.
HeisenbergFX4
who is having to work overtime to inform people that the next Xbox is in fact....a console.
Clintizzle
Lord of Edge.
Forget about it being a PC, has anyone asked if the new Xbox is gay?
