Goalus
Member
I would welcome that, and I don't mind Xbox games going to other platforms. I am wondering though if there was some bad blood between Phil and Thomas which caused Moon's departure. They would need to resolve that first.
Moon Studios (Ori devs, No Rest For the Wicked devs) are in trouble
- Thread starter drotahorror
- Start date
Fess
Member
They're completely independent now without a publisher. They could just as well sign up with Sony so you'll get nothing on Xbox and a delayed release on Steam.
Just be glad that it's somewhere. If you want to support them then get the Early Access on Steam, it's 30% off right now.
I believe it's on GeForce Now if you don't have a PC.
Fess
Member
He seems to like Phil's current strategy, so I think it was just about being locked down to Xbox-only. Today they should have no problems.
Goalus
Member
If they signed up with Sony, that would go against their goal to be on all platforms (unless by "all platforms" they meant "PS and maybe PC"). As soon as the game appears on Xbox, I will support them.
Mhmmm 2077
Member
You aren't technically allowed to solicit positive reviews per Valve's policy.
II_JumPeR_I
Member
Maybe should have done game preview/early access on consoles aswell
Little Mac
Member
I bought it yesterday off steam for 30% off. I loved the ori games and the art style of NRFTW is simply amazing. It's one of my most anticipated games but I don't want to touch it til 1.0. Because I haven't played it, I don't think I'm allowed to write a Steam review.
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Fess
Member
At this point they probably just want to survive, and PlayStation will have complete monopoly on the highend console market soon so Moon might be okay with that reach.
Go support them if you like them. It's 2 pizzas.
near
Member
What a shame. The early access version of the game is decent, I wouldn't sing its praises and I wouldn't leave a positive review, I already gave them my money, that's enough support.
They shot themselves in the foot, and just don't know how to manage themselves as an independent studio. They fucked up. There best bet is to partner with another publisher or release the game in its current state.
They shot themselves in the foot, and just don't know how to manage themselves as an independent studio. They fucked up. There best bet is to partner with another publisher or release the game in its current state.
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Moon Studios has always been independent.
They didnt cancel the Microsoft partnership.
Microsoft did.
The excuse that they wanted to make a cross platform multiplayer game doenst hold much water considering both Oris are multiplatform and MS is effectively a third party developer now.
They also had a publisher for No Rest For The Wicked, its not like they were always planning to self fund and self publish.
Private Division was their publisher, but Take-Two got greedy and decided that publishing smaller titles wasnt worth it and wanted to focus on AAA experiences and Mobile games.
So Private Division became a skeleton company but still had the publishing rights to a bunch of games.
No Rest was far along enough that waiting to see what Private Division was gonna do with the publishing rights just wasnt tenable, they had to find a new publisher or buy the rights back themselves and then start hustling (what they are doing right now).
If the game is received well in EA theres a good chance another publisher comes along, but if people review bomb the game, then that looks less likely and they have already spent so much buying the game back from Private Division.
I rarely play early access games and only tried it about a year ago - really enjoyed what i played but will rather wait for a full release
I left a positive review since I really want it to be finished. This really shows the risk with early access i guess..
To what % is the game even complete now? There was a big update recently -. but that was obviously not 1.0
I left a positive review since I really want it to be finished. This really shows the risk with early access i guess..
To what % is the game even complete now? There was a big update recently -. but that was obviously not 1.0
Jibran#one
Member
Even if this is on gamepass I'll buy it on series x just to support them because of ori 1 and 2 they should be bought by if I was Sony Microsoft or Nintendo I would buy them out in a heartbeat
Roberts
Member
That might sound mean, but this is the first thing that I thought of, to be honest. But I hope it all works out for them in the end. Good developer, deserves better.Should've stayed with that Xbox partnership.
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Fess
Member
Agreed, but Steam only have thumbs up or thumbs down, no middle ground, so it becomes reactionary by default when you want to get the developer's attention after changes to a game you otherwise enjoy.
What people need to understand is that you can change your review. It's not like professional reviews and Metacritic where the launch state of a game is what the after world will see even 5 years and 30 updates later. Steam reviews is a living thing, it shows what players think about the game right now.
Herbspiceguy
Member
Didn't buy cause I'm not feeling the character artstyle (seriously what the hell were they thinking?) and I like my ARPG's like ARPG's not Souls-like.
SJRB
Gold Member
How is this different than literally any other indie dev releasing a game on Steam? This is how the process works. The devs chose to participate this way.
If your company's bottom line is so fragile that a few days of negative reviews might bomb the entire studio, then wtf are you even doing?
If your company's bottom line is so fragile that a few days of negative reviews might bomb the entire studio, then wtf are you even doing?
Astray
Member
Taking a break from it would likely invite further review bombing, this time probably justified.
Ori 1+2 is Microsoft-owned iirc. I think Microsoft will get on porting them, but it almost certainly won't be for a collection.
balls of snow
Member
I bought the game, gonna start it after finishing up Expedition 33.
Now, these guys should have been on ms payroll. The two Ori games were top tier and earned more than enough goodwill from ms. Hell, South of Midnight had 6 years of development and ms was more than happy to just let it be.
Now, these guys should have been on ms payroll. The two Ori games were top tier and earned more than enough goodwill from ms. Hell, South of Midnight had 6 years of development and ms was more than happy to just let it be.
LegendOfKage
Member
I find this post interesting, considering both games went through almost the exact same situation with their latest major updates. Both games released large updates that made each game considerably harder than ever before, both updates were not intended to do that, and both games quickly released updates that fixed those issues within about two days of the first update.
But one of them recently went independent, and the other is owned by Tencent, so guess which one is having a harder time with the financial issues caused by review bombing?
Plus, the developer actually posts on this forum, which I can't say about many other developers. I think that alone should be reason enough for GAF members to at least Wishlist this on Steam, if the game looks good to anyone reading this.
Also, see this post for a good explanation of why the risk of independence isn't something that Moon Studios necessarily wanted: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/moon...d-devs-are-in-trouble.1683935/#post-270404243 It was kind of the only option they had after their publisher announced they were closing.
Personally, I'm really looking forward to both POE2 and No Rest for the Wicked. It looks like they'll be very different games, despite both being in the same genre. And they both seem like they'll be fun for different reasons.
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Little Mac
Member
To add what I stated earlier, I just bought a refurbished Steam Deck OLED and NRFTW was the first game I bought for it. I'd be playing it now if: A) Expedition 33 wasn't consuming my entire existence, and B) I didn't feel like early access spoils games. I can tell that NRFTW is something special and I'm patiently waiting for its launch when the developer's vision for the game is more fully realized. I also recently bought Ori and the Will of the Wisps but for some reason its not Steam Deck Verified like Blind Forest which is a shame.
Kadve
Member
Same thing. If a company is to cheap to Beta test their own game, then why should i do it?
Also blaming review bombing for a game not selling well makes it fell like they are looking for an Excuse. Sounds to me like they game might just be niche and would never sell that well.
JerryinSoCal
Member
How much of that money did MS keep? they published the game.
Ah yes because having like 80% of the PC players ignoring your game by default would have been the much better strategy
near
Member
Reviews seem genuine. It doesn't appear to be review bombed, as far as I can tell.
Dorfdad
Gold Member
This is why you don't buy early access. While the game may be great but people are asshats. Stop trying to please everyone in EA build your vision and release it as a 1.0 now the final version may never be released.
near
Member
The negative reviews coincide with The Breach patch update, and for the most part, people seem to offer genuine criticism. It might be a fair representation of the game's quality, as opposed to other instances where a game is review bombed for reasons unrelated to its quality.
Data could indicate review bombing. Either way, video games is an unforgiving biz, hope the studio survives.
The Cockatrice
I'm retarded?
Just an fyi Thomas is a gaf user.
thomasmahler
No idea how this could possibly go bankrupt since it has quite a lot of sales(? or maybe im confusing it with something else) and almost 50k reviews which is a lot for an indie. I think marketing goes a long way and I rarely hear about this game. Other than that, good luck, hope you succeed in finishing the game. It's a niche one and you took a risk with this specific genre.
thomasmahler
No idea how this could possibly go bankrupt since it has quite a lot of sales(? or maybe im confusing it with something else) and almost 50k reviews which is a lot for an indie. I think marketing goes a long way and I rarely hear about this game. Other than that, good luck, hope you succeed in finishing the game. It's a niche one and you took a risk with this specific genre.
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TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
None of those. Finish the game, then ask for my money.
I've already been bitten in the ass by both EA games that never deliver and "finished" games that clearly needed more time, and I don't think releasing games on EA is a cure for the later. Good management is, which is something a lot of games seem to be lacking nowadays.
Well, now I'm likely not gonna bank on the game now if there's a (likely?) chance it'll never see 1.0 release. I mean, there's always a chance with any EA game, but with the devs being so upfront about it, this seems even more likely. Which would be sad, because the game looks amazing.
However, thanks for the honesty, and I can imagine how frustrating it must be seeing negative reviews not being updated by people who already given up despite major updates – or people change their review on a monthly patch basis, not recommending a game despite having played it for 30. 50, or even 100 hours.
But this is the risk of EA, of an ongoing development, when early adoptors won't stick around once they're frustrated enough (for whatever reasons).
I'm not sure if the review system is intented this way, though. I mean, it's still in development. You probably should use Discord, bug report forms, discussions platforms to critizise, vent and report issues with the game. A review is supposed to cover all (or at least major and a few minor) facets of a game, and unbalanced gameplay and/or lost progress (as frustrating as it is) is not a core component of a game nor is it everything that is to say about it, ignoring literally every other aspect. Seems more like venting than giving helpful advice on an educated purchase decision.
However, thanks for the honesty, and I can imagine how frustrating it must be seeing negative reviews not being updated by people who already given up despite major updates – or people change their review on a monthly patch basis, not recommending a game despite having played it for 30. 50, or even 100 hours.
But this is the risk of EA, of an ongoing development, when early adoptors won't stick around once they're frustrated enough (for whatever reasons).
I'm not sure if the review system is intented this way, though. I mean, it's still in development. You probably should use Discord, bug report forms, discussions platforms to critizise, vent and report issues with the game. A review is supposed to cover all (or at least major and a few minor) facets of a game, and unbalanced gameplay and/or lost progress (as frustrating as it is) is not a core component of a game nor is it everything that is to say about it, ignoring literally every other aspect. Seems more like venting than giving helpful advice on an educated purchase decision.
near
Member
He might be the best person to ask about how they've run out of money. When they acquired the publishing rights just a few months ago, T2 was still willing to keep supporting it. If you have the money to buy the publishing rights, how do you end up with no money to continue financing your own game? Did they think they could do so solely by relying on people to keep purchasing the early access release? If so, that was a poor decision. I also think asking fans to boost positive reviews is a bad move, as it can create a false perception of quality and mislead potential buyers. How is that any different from when Eidos put pressure on GameSpot for giving Kane & Lynch a bad review? It just comes across as unethical.Just an fyi Thomas is a gaf user.
Akuji
Member
I read Game difficulty is a Problem. What is the Problem? Is the Game to Hard?
I enjoy Hard ARPGs imo Vanilla D3 was the best D3 ever. Everybody cried how Hard it was but i enjoyed my time with my Warrior progressing slowly through the Act 1 - 3 infernal. 4 wasnt what i enjoyed.
So would this Game give me what i want Right now ? Or is it already "fixed" ?
I enjoy Hard ARPGs imo Vanilla D3 was the best D3 ever. Everybody cried how Hard it was but i enjoyed my time with my Warrior progressing slowly through the Act 1 - 3 infernal. 4 wasnt what i enjoyed.
So would this Game give me what i want Right now ? Or is it already "fixed" ?
Renoir
Member
man.. this feel like i burn so money .. really was hoping for this game to come out. Bought he Early access and all. I played the first session, didn't download breach and wanted to wait for the full game since i didn't want to get deep in the story.
I feel like im never going to see this game now. Like Bushiden.
Other note. How can you differentiate a good review that criticize the game to a review bomb to a bad review that still criticize? I remeber when Helldiver 2 had the review bomb issues and gamers used the system to make a statement. I still felt weird that gamers can muscle a dev into doing what they want.
Take last of us and that one characters death. Wouldn't it be weird to review bomb and have them change the story ?
I feel like im never going to see this game now. Like Bushiden.
Other note. How can you differentiate a good review that criticize the game to a review bomb to a bad review that still criticize? I remeber when Helldiver 2 had the review bomb issues and gamers used the system to make a statement. I still felt weird that gamers can muscle a dev into doing what they want.
Take last of us and that one characters death. Wouldn't it be weird to review bomb and have them change the story ?
Agent_4Seven
Tears of Nintendo
Man, that's some really fuckin' horrible news cuz I like the game and potential in it that can be realised, but I just don't get how more positive reviews will change anything if they're not providing us more specific information on exactly how it'll help them finish the game. And even then, there's no guarantee that they'll actually finish it and realise its full potential. There's also a question of... well, if you did something that people don't like via one of the updates and stuff, why should they change their opinion? Tell people how exactly it'll help and what they can expect, otherwise it's pointless to expect that they'll do what you ask them to. Be more open, that's the key here.
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kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
Just an fyi Thomas is a gaf user.
Ongoing sales are needed to pay for the continuous development on the game. That's the whole point of these "early access" games: to bring in money even though the game is not feature complete. If sales start go down because of a review bombing campaign, this could jeopardize the studio since Moon Studios are truly independent.
Buggy Loop
Member
Moon Studios has always been independent.
They didnt cancel the Microsoft partnership.
Microsoft did.
The excuse that they wanted to make a cross platform multiplayer game doenst hold much water considering both Oris are multiplatform and MS is effectively a third party developer now.
They also had a publisher for No Rest For The Wicked, its not like they were always planning to self fund and self publish.
Private Division was their publisher, but Take-Two got greedy and decided that publishing smaller titles wasnt worth it and wanted to focus on AAA experiences and Mobile games.
So Private Division became a skeleton company but still had the publishing rights to a bunch of games.
No Rest was far along enough that waiting to see what Private Division was gonna do with the publishing rights just wasnt tenable, they had to find a new publisher or buy the rights back themselves and then start hustling (what they are doing right now).
If the game is received well in EA theres a good chance another publisher comes along, but if people review bomb the game, then that looks less likely and they have already spent so much buying the game back from Private Division.
Why you keep saying that private division is a skeleton company?
They got filled up afterwards by ex-annapuma staff.
Private Division Games including Tales of the Shire and Kerbal Space Program to Be Distributed by New Label From Annapurna Interactive's Former Staff - IGN
In a rather unusual merging of two completely separate reported stories from last year, the former staff of Annapurna Interactive are seemingly preparing to take over the portfolio of shuttered indie label Private Division.
And they continue publishing
So moon studio had little to no patience between November where take two dropped it and December where ex-Annapurna got in… wow. The patience of that guy… risking it all when you're nowhere near release.
I hope they survive but that Thomas guy seems like he got greedy to be independent too fast. With the allegations that he was so toxic that he burned bridges with Microsoft, this guy could be the death of Moon Studio.
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kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
I don't think Mahler is asking buyers of the game to lie, he wants more people who like the game to add a positive review. The vast majority of gamers (95+%) never leave reviews on Steam. That's how disgruntled, dissatisfied players get over represented.
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near
Member
Not sure if that is entirely fair to those leaving the reviews. Some of the people leaving the reviews are essentially still fans who have come back to play the game after patches. If they're leaving genuine impressions, and those impressions represent how they feel about the game, then that matters. If they were satisfied and really loved the game, then those same people who are leaving negative reviews with constructive criticism would leave positive ones instead. It might just simply be the case that there aren't enough fans out there right now willing to leave positive feedback in good faith, myself included (pre-patch).
Just a couple examples:
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Why you keep saying that private division is a skeleton company?
They got filled up afterwards by ex-annapuma staff.
Private Division Games including Tales of the Shire and Kerbal Space Program to Be Distributed by New Label From Annapurna Interactive's Former Staff - IGN
In a rather unusual merging of two completely separate reported stories from last year, the former staff of Annapurna Interactive are seemingly preparing to take over the portfolio of shuttered indie label Private Division.www.ign.com
And they continue publishing
So moon studio had little to no patience between November where take two dropped it and December where ex-Annapurna got in… wow. The patience of that guy… risking it all when you're nowhere near release.
I hope they survive but that Thomas guy seems like he got greedy to be independent too fast. With the allegations that he was so toxic that he burned bridges with Microsoft, this guy could be the death of Moon Studio.
The Private Division that was bought was around 20 people.
Most of whom have already been told to look for new job (they are likely already gone).
The ex-Annapurna Interactive guys have effectively started a whole new company, Haveli just bought the rights from Private Division.
iam8bit is doing the work on Tales from the Shire even if Tales from the Shire was practically finished already.
I can all but guarantee Shire stuck because their game was finished and it needed to come out, they couldnt buy back the distribution, so they just said hopefully this new company can do something......said company basically pawned the work off to 8bit. (So now the profit share is gonna be 3 ways(4 i guess).
You really want to trust an in development game to a publisher who cant distribute titles??
This "Private Division" is a skeleton company thats just starting out.
When it grows flesh whenever that is, we can talk again.
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ultrazilla
Gold Member
The game is absolutely beautiful. I just don't know why Moon Studios decided to embrace the "Souls" combat. I can't stand these type of games but with their pedigree, I wasn't about
to miss it either.
Let the player pick the difficulty level. Easy, normal, hard, veteran, souls-like, etc. Give the player options and don't just pigeon hole us into "souls like" combat, take it or leave it.
I'll hit them up with a positive review but I *will* also suggest they give the player as many options as possible for difficulty level.
to miss it either.
Let the player pick the difficulty level. Easy, normal, hard, veteran, souls-like, etc. Give the player options and don't just pigeon hole us into "souls like" combat, take it or leave it.
I'll hit them up with a positive review but I *will* also suggest they give the player as many options as possible for difficulty level.
