More Europeans die from the heat each year than Americans die from guns

That study seems to include 53 countries. EU has 27. "Southern Europe and western Europe suffered between 80 and 290 times the number of fatalities as northern Europe and the Western Balkan countries, though the aggregate average populations are only between five and 10 times larger. Compared to central-eastern European countries, the number of people who died in southern Europe and western Europe is roughly between 12 to 28 times as large, against total average populations which are around twice the size."


Now, try to find a similar study done for the US.
 
Can only speak for Scandinavia, we have heat pumps instead of AC's. We still hit major temps during summer, but a heat pump is reversable. Heat pumps are very common, pure AC units, hardly anyone owns them. The heat pumps let us stay warm though too when it's -25 outside. Ground heat/cooling ftw.
Same thing I had installed in my home in Indiana, have a 5 ton outdoor unit with a 7 ton air handler in the basement with back up emergency heat coils and it does an amazing job
 
Currently in Georgia and the heat outside is quite unbearable. But everywhere has AC and it's great. I walked up stone mountain and I was dripping in sweat at the top.

Before I came here I did a week in Italy which was actually hotter or at least the same. Ac in restaurants. First hotel had a ceiling fan which was just as good as AC.
Didn't really get strong ac vibes in Italy though.
 
As a Norwegian I've never seen a window mounted AC unit in all of my life. But then again we have 2 months of summer and a solid 6 months of winter. On the other hand I've also never seen a firearm, outside of hunting rifles/antiques.

I might not get the fascination you Americans have for guns, but it's not place to judge a place and culture I've never been a part of. All I'll say that your police officers can't possibly be paid enough, talk about high risk career. 😋
 
By comparison you have way less control over dying or not if you are shot by a gun.
You can definitely limit your likelihood of being shot by a gun. Of all the yearly gun deaths, close to 60% of those suicide. That's seems like an easy way to lower those odds. A small percentage come from being killed by the police. I do my best not to break laws (only occasional traffic violations) and I comply with cops when they do talk to me. Look, my survival rate went up! And another percentage of deaths are from people using firearms in self defense against their assailant. I'm not violently attacking anyone so more survival points for me! And of the actual murders that occur, the vast majority are personal, directed attacks on specific people, like gang violence. Not involved there either so my gun survival stats are through the roof!
A completely preventable disease that is, unlike heat waves which are hard to accomodate for since European weather is generally very fluctuating, with intense heat only existing for about 1-2 months a year.
Hard to accommodate for? You just said it happens EVERY SINGLE YEAR. I'm not sure they is anything easier to accommodate for than something THAT ALWAYS HAPPENS.
 
Does this calculation compensate for the difference between ten 84 year olds dying a month earlier and ten 12 year old kids being blown to bits by an AR-15 in life years lost?:

Not even starting on the 25-34 aged fentanyl overdoses.
 
Hard to accommodate for? You just said it happens EVERY SINGLE YEAR. I'm not sure they is anything easier to accommodate for than something THAT ALWAYS HAPPENS.
Europe is a large place and while some places like southern Italy/Spain/Greece do have extreme heat during June/July, it's nothing compared to many American states which are in actuality deserts with roads and buildings. Europe does not have that kind of consistent heat, why building a huge AC infrastructure network is probably not viable economically.
Honestly, this is an insane argument to me as an American.

First we don't rank life here in America. So I don't count the years left until death as relevant to this. Do murderers get less time in EU for murdering the elderly? In America they get MORE time. Elderly are a protected class and elder abuse is strictly enforced. In fact, they will get you if you are elderly adjacent and don't help. If if your mom and dad die in a house without AC that you visit often, you will be answering questions.
Don't be disingenous. You know full well frailty matters here. This rationale is also why a flu does not lead to system wide lockdowns, despite posing a potentially lethal threat to elderly. Old people die, and not taking into equation the amount of lost years makes for hugely misleading stats. This is like saying that dementia kills more people than war and we should focus resources on dementia research rather than preserving peace - which makes for a huge unjustice to kids and teenagers that die during war, having to die before even living a complete life, compared to an 85 year old just diagnosed with Alzheimers.

You absolutely do rank life in America too. Visit a hospital, see what kind of treatment an 85 year old gets compared to a 35 year old. Healthcare takes overall age and frailty into consideration all the time. I know for some people it's shocking that old people die but it's what nature is.

Regardless, this comparison between Europe and US is illogical regardless since the places hit by heat waves have general a level of wealth well below that of US. We're not talking about Germany or Denmark here. We're talking about countries with some cases barely functional roads.

This whole thread is stupid and does not take into consideration the millions of biases in this comparison.
 
I also find some irony in this thread, by Americans, bragging about dealing with heat waves, while Americans per capita contribute more than twice to global warming than Europeans do. US has more emissions than the entirety of EU, despite the latter having a population of hundreds of millions more. If Americans weren't both historically and now, the largest contributors of global warming, maybe those poor southern European countries would not suffer as much.


And now we have an administration in the US that is actively killing renewable energy sources and giving even more tax breaks to the oil conglomerate. But hey, the problem is definitely failing European policies right?
 
Currently in Egypt and this Irishman is getting it tight with the relentless sun, thankfully I'm keeping cool and hydrated by drinking cold beer from sun up to sun down
 
Sorry to interrupt the US vs Europe shitstorm.
Just wanted to report that this last week, temperatures where I live have dropped so much, it was actually a bit cold at night. Wednesday was the only day in five when I turned on a fan in my home. Didn't need to turn on AC, not even in the hottest hours of the day. I'm sitting in my kitchen with windows open right now and there's not a drop of sweat on me.

You see, July used to be exactly like this here until the late 00s. We'd get the usual North Africa-borne heat wave, reach maybe 35-36C for a few days, and then enjoy the rest of a gloriously warm summer, walking in the afternoon sun like it's nothing. But it's absolutely exceptional for the last decade or so.

Do I regret having AC installed in my home? Not one bit. It was still very useful during a couple of horribly hot and humid weeks. And the machines also work as heat pumps in fall and winter, helping tremendously with those exorbitant gas bills.
 
I also find some irony in this thread, by Americans, bragging about dealing with heat waves, while Americans per capita contribute more than twice to global warming than Europeans do. US has more emissions than the entirety of EU, despite the latter having a population of hundreds of millions more. If Americans weren't both historically and now, the largest contributors of global warming, maybe those poor southern European countries would not suffer as much.


And now we have an administration in the US that is actively killing renewable energy sources and giving even more tax breaks to the oil conglomerate. But hey, the problem is definitely failing European policies right?
Yep. Learn to adapt.

Not only that, but using the link you provided, your statements include straight up lies. America is not the leading contributor, that would be China (by a lot). And if you were to go per capita, the US is outside the top ten, actually below Canada.
 
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Does this calculation compensate for the difference between ten 84 year olds dying a month earlier and ten 12 year old kids being blown to bits by an AR-15 in life years lost?:

Not even starting on the 25-34 aged fentanyl overdoses.
People bring up the AR 15 a lot (and for good reason) but the Mini 14 is every bit as deadly and was actually my first semi auto higher powered rifle

If there ever was a ban on AR 15 style rifles many hunters would lose their Mini 14s (and some of us even used our AR15s to hunt with)

The Mini 14s just aren't as scary looking

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People bring up the AR 15 a lot (and for good reason) but the Mini 14 is every bit as deadly and was actually my first semi auto higher powered rifle

If there ever was a ban on AR 15 style rifles many hunters would lose their Mini 14s (and some of us even used our AR15s to hunt with)

The Mini 14s just aren't as scary looking

I read that gun violence in USA is mostly done by handguns anyways. Its like 80% handguns.
 
I read that gun violence in USA is mostly done by handguns anyways. Its like 80% handguns.
They are but for whatever reason that doesn't get traction in the news.

Last I saw AR style weapons only accounted for like 3% of all murders but by far the most talked about weapon

Knives kill way more people in the US
 
The bottom line is that in Europe people don't die because they dont have AC, that's ridiculous. And in South Europe you DONT need artificial heat in Winter because it's warm. Life is bearable wihtout AC with the exception of August, which can be pretty awful. Thing is, AC is an ugly addition to homes. I prefer to bear the pain for one month instead of paying extra money and having that machine installed on my terrace. The comparison to AC in cars or at work doesn't make sense.

In fact, at work summertime is when men and women fight for the use of AC in the office. Men wear shirt and tie and need AC to not suffocate, while women wear skimpy dresses and complain about the cold temperature. This is the everyday summer fight at work, so it depends on who you ask.

Right now I'm regretting not having AC, but in September I will think "it wasnt that bad", as always.
 
Euromomo shows no signs of excessive deaths during the last heatwave period in Europe. Seems like the study, that's based solely on assumptions, was wrong ..
 
This is wild. I really dont understand Europeans forcing themselves to suffer & die due to heat.

I was in Italy 2 years ago, in early October - and it was like 27c & humid where I was (lake Garda) - I noticed the AC didn't work in my place, so I went to the manager and he told me "well it's winter now, so AC only works with heating" and I was flabbergasted.
Ok dude, 27c is definitely winter! It's like they're programmed to think that passing October 1st threshold automatically means it's cold. Fucking dumbasses
 
I might not get the fascination you Americans have for guns, but it's not place to judge a place and culture I've never been a part of. All I'll say that your police officers can't possibly be paid enough, talk about high risk career. 😋
Actually gun deaths are only around 30-40 a year. with all felonious deaths coming in at around 60. Same as the whole of europe.

In 2023, the FBI reports 60 officers were feloniously killed in the line of duty. Approximately 52% of those deaths involved firearms—roughly 31 officers killed by gunfire The Washington Post+5CBS News+5Officer+5.

Region/CountryFelonious/Violent DeathsAccidental Deaths
USA (2023) 60 58
EU (average)Estimated ~50–60/year across major countries; e.g., FR ~16, DE ~14, UK ~3Not well-tracked; included in general data
France (2022)~25 officer-shooting deathsPart of 488 custody deaths (2020–22)
Germany (2023)14 police shootingsIncluded in 488 custody deaths data
UK~3 fatal police shootings/yearVery low accidental data available


the majority of the deaths are accidental. like car accidents. every since covid, they started including covid related medical deaths as line of duty deaths which is ridiculous but if you drill down the numbers, its really not that different compared to europe.

Now, they do kill 1,400 people a year. Here it is compared to eurpoean countries.

🔍 Comparison (Per 10 Million People)


  • U.S.: ~285 per 10 M
  • Germany: ~13
  • UK: ~5
  • France: ~38
  • Nordics: 0–20 at most
In short, its no more dangerous than being a cop in other first world countries. But they are the most dangerous police force for civilians in the western world.
 
This is wild. I really dont understand Europeans forcing themselves to suffer & die due to heat.

I was in Italy 2 years ago, in early October - and it was like 27c & humid where I was (lake Garda) - I noticed the AC didn't work in my place, so I went to the manager and he told me "well it's winter now, so AC only works with heating" and I was flabbergasted.
Ok dude, 27c is definitely winter! It's like they're programmed to think that passing October 1st threshold automatically means it's cold. Fucking dumbasses
This is actually how a lot of people think in Italy. It's the calendar that tells you how hot or cold it is, not the actual weather. The issues of a country obsessed with fashion.

Several times, during a particularly warm spring day, I'd wear short-sleeved shirts and have people ask me "Feeling warm today?" Uhm… yeah? Just feel the temperature, dude.

There was a period when my father was dating an Asian-American girl from Seattle. She'd go around in Turin (northern Italy) in a pretty warm January wearing shorts and flip flops. People were constantly staring at her and she was livid about it. She just couldn't understand what was wrong with her.
 
New article from FT



Article:
When the late Singaporean premier Lee Kuan Yew was asked for the secret of his nation's rapid rise from doldrums to dynamism during the second half of the 20th century, he had two answers. First: multi-ethnic tolerance in a diverse society. Second: air conditioning.Lee, who prioritised the installation of air conditioners in government offices when he came to power in 1959, hailed the technology as "one of the signal inventions of history", and key to increasing the efficiency of Singapore's civil service.While the precise contribution of air conditioning to the Singaporean miracle is hard to quantify, there is no question that the ability to keep cool in hot climates is enormously valuable.Once indoor temperatures rise above the low-twenties centigrade, or around 75 Fahrenheit, humans start to suffer. Sleep duration and quality fall rapidly when temperatures rise above 23C. Cognitive performance fares similarly, with scores in US high school tests dipping on hot days, and the affected students suffering a lasting impact on their prospects of graduation. The same is true of office workers' productivity, which peaks at around 21C and rapidly deteriorates as the mercury rises. And that's all before we get on to mortality, where death rates climb steeply once temperatures hit 30C.


Dflr46W.png


The key word here is indoor. All of these bleak outcomes can be avoided if the interiors of homes, schools and offices can be kept at a comfortable temperature even as the sun beats down outside. And while careful building design, passive cooling and other adaptations can offer some protection, once temperatures get high enough, only air conditioning can make a real difference.As a result, with heatwaves rapidly increasing in frequency around the world, the wide US-Europe disparity in air conditioning use is becoming reflected in a startlingly wide disparity in heat-related deaths. Between 2000 and 2019, an average of 83,000 western Europeans lost their lives every year as a result of extreme heat, compared with 20,000 North Americans.

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Yet despite the rising human toll, air conditioning remains widely frowned upon in the UK and Europe, with consistent and concerted pushback from those who consider the technology an unnecessary extravagance — and one that does more harm than good.I have some sympathy with this, at least superficially. Air conditioning uses a lot of energy; if the proposed solution to emissions-driven global warming is to emit more, then we have an obvious problem.But two key parts of the calculus here are changing rapidly.

The first is the extent to which air conditioning is necessary. European cities are enduring more intense heat, more frequently and for longer periods than just a decade or two ago. Hot nights — where the risks to health are highest, and air conditioning adds the most value — are rising fastest of all. This year London is experiencing as much heat as Portland, Oregon, (18 days and counting of temperatures requiring active cooling), but without Portland's cooling infrastructure (79 per cent of households there have air conditioning). The results will not be pretty.

[...]
 
I don't know about those indoors 23C figures. 24 is too much for me in the winter, 20-22 is my sweet spot. But in the summer, 25-26 is perfect with the right humidity, even for sleeping.
 
Been looking at figures from a few hospitals, and, not suprised, EU, if someone dies from a heart attack induced by heat, it is reported as a heat related death, but in the USA, it is reported as a heart attack.

We have allready seen the differences in reporting methods to skew suicide/rape/homicide figures when it comes to EU/USA reports.

Shamefull comparisons really.

It is neigh impossible to get proper statistics from US hospitals regarding heat induced deaths, as the death is reported by a prior condition first, then, secondary causes are calculated in.

Same goes for Whooping cough, TBC and suprisingly chicken-pox, , USA, you are not reported to have died from theese diseases, you are reported have died of what-ever organ fails first.

Huge difference in reporting methods? Intentional, or not?


I am really interested more in though, why the huge difference in reporting methods?
 
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You're more likely to get killed by heat in Europe than get killed by a gun in America. Trying to talk shit about gun ownership but can't figure out how to stay cool enough to live? I grew up in an area where temperatures regularly hit over 100° in the summer and my house didn't have air conditioning. Nobody died from the heat in my house.

I'm sorry.

I laughed at this because I couldn't believe that heat deaths in Europe would be higher than gun deaths in the US.

I looked it up and you're actually not far off.

In 2023, Europe had 47,690 deaths related to heat. The US recorded 47,000 gun deaths.
 
you have to change ur diet for hot weather if you want to be comfortable more fresh fruits and vegetables and hydration and be ready to sweat. Dehydration is the real danger so you have to be ready to hydrate when you begin to sweat and hydrate as you keep sweating
 
I don't know about those indoors 23C figures. 24 is too much for me in the winter, 20-22 is my sweet spot. But in the summer, 25-26 is perfect with the right humidity, even for sleeping.


24 in Winter is stupid. I can't stand it. 25 in summer is better than perfect.

I love it when people from other continent lecture me on the weather I have lived for 40 years. Jesus fucking Christ, this is getting silly.
 
you have to change ur diet for hot weather if you want to be comfortable more fresh fruits and vegetables and hydration and be ready to sweat. Dehydration is the real danger so you have to be ready to hydrate when you begin to sweat and hydrate as you keep sweating
As someone who has lived in Miami on and off most of my life… I have never heard of that. I eat normally, mostly carnivore diet, run, do yoga and even life weights outdoors sometimes.
 
Europe literally living in the dark ages.
Availability or shipping Aircons won't solve anything, as they are readily available. People need to actually bother installing them. Lots of people do, as here in the Netherlands it's predicted about 300k new AC installations will take place this year. Back in 2019 the number of homes with installed AC sat at just over 200k, it's predicted to pass the 2 million mark this year. That's 25% of all houses in the Netherlands having AC. By 2030 it will be over half. The same situation is in Germany, AC installations are climbing rapidly.

I don't think you fully understand the scale of the issue and how rapidly Europe has been heating up. It takes years, if not decades, to change public perception and install that many AC units when it has historically not been needed. People grew up here not knowing what severe heat was, and it has changed dramatically in such a short time. Instead of looking at what is changing, some here are just using it to shit on Europe again.
 
Apparently it was 35c in Worcestershire yesterday and similar today. That's 95f or the predicted temperature in Arizona when it gets to 11am there today.

The difference is this isn't breezy buildings, open vistas and AC. It's the midlands of England. 980 people per square mile compared to 63.

The higher highs aren't even being balanced out by colder colds. Winter is mainly wet and warm these days.
 
Im curious what the power bills are like in Europe, I always hear they are insane, but I have no context for what insane is to them.

Like we have a pretty high power bill here in Dallas, at about $350 a month, but the majority of that is our pool using a lot of energy for the pool pump + my wife wants the house at 67 degrees year round. But if it wasn't for those things, energy really isn't that expensive. Like I 3D print, have two 5090 gaming rigs running 24/7 plus alot of other electronics, and they barely make a dent on the power bill if they are on or off.

Edit: just did a bit of research, looks like on average most places in western Europe are 2 to 2.5x's more expensive (35 cents-ish vs 15 centish) than energy than the US (minus places like California/Hawaii), but some places in Europe are very cheap for energy (basically the eastern countries it looks like), with the middle countries hitting more like the US average. Very interesting!
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The value for Germany is accurate.
It's possible to pay less (like 35 ct), I pay 40 ct, so 37 ct on average seems about right.

I live in an apartment in a larger building, and installing a split AC device that will have a module that is visible from the outside is hugely problematic here. So even though I own this apartment, I can't just do it because the other apartment owners might not like how it looks on the outside wall of the building.
 
The value for Germany is accurate.
It's possible to pay less (like 35 ct), I pay 40 ct, so 37 ct on average seems about right.

I live in an apartment in a larger building, and installing a split AC device that will have a module that is visible from the outside is hugely problematic here. So even though I own this apartment, I can't just do it because the other apartment owners might not like how it looks on the outside wall of the building.
I wonder if you could hide the exterior compressor pump somehow like this:
iXrL56uuJWzDqjkZ.jpg
 
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We normally use air pumps here that can heat or cool depending on the need.

Perhaps the fact that everyone that dies from certain causes while outside temps are above a set limit are included in heat death statistics is of interest? In the us it is just reported as someone dying. :D

But hey, let's not argue about comparative statistics when we can have fun, right? :D
 
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What's this got to do with anything? The reasons for this rationing (not really rationing at all, but limiting new access to the grid) is clear with a bit of research and it has got little to do with not having sufficient electricity generation. Hint, Russia is one of the reasons to why this is happening. Having too much electricity is another. Use some critical thinking skills instead of regurgitating everything you read on Twitter for a change.
 
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1,500 Deaths in Europe's Heat Wave Were Due to Climate Crisis, Study Shows

The study, conducted by scientists at Imperial College of London and the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, examined 2,300 heat-related deaths across 12 European cities during the heat wave from June 23 to July 2. About two-thirds of those deaths — approximately 1,500 — were directly attributable to additional warming caused by the climate crisis, scientists said.

 
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