Cyberpunkd
Banned
What's up with Americans bashing Europe in this thread? Guys, don't get us started on your healthcare and gun ownership, k?
More Europeans die from the heat each year than Americans die from guns
- Thread starter EviLore
- Start date
AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
Bet you won't say anything about Gun ownership to our faces.
Healthcare here is good, bloated cost do to many factors like the government and the way insurance works and so on. But the treatment of people is good. Cost is unsustainable and will break at some point I hope. I should caveat this with I have always had insurance. And that makes a difference.
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HeisenbergFX4
Member
"Free" healthcare shouldn't be given to everyone, you should have to work for it but I am old and think everyone who can should be out working
Gun ownership is fine, I have a lot of guns that hasn't hurt anyone since I have owned them and that will continue as long as I don't need to defend myself or my family.
Guns isn't the problem, its people. Some of our cities with the strictest gun laws are some of the deadliest places to be like Chicago
Cyberpunkd
Banned
Well, of course I won't - I don't want to get shot in the face because you have difficulty controlling your emotions.Bet you won't say anything about Gun ownership to our faces.
Man, it's like the most stereotypical memes about America all put in one sentence, don't even know where to start to unpack all of this.
Understanding the world via memes isn't understanding the world
AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
HeisenbergFX4
and I know, the more people we can eliminate with guns, the less problems we will have.
HeisenbergFX4
Member
I mean I am an American so...
AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
American's like dunking on Europeans and Europeans like dunking on Americans it is a friendly fun thing we all do. But deep down Europeans know that their life style is greatly enhanced by the Presence of the US military to protect the western world and Japan and Korea.
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Bojji
Member
That was the case before latest election. Now we are not even sure if Russia is the enemy or allie of United States.
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
Because no one should die because they were outside in 29° weather or whine incessantly about how A/C is impossible or their electric bill is going to go up or "I'm only going to use it a week or 2" ignoring that they would use it every year thereafter it's giving 2nd hand embarrassment.
Bash all you want I know America's lack of healthcare and gun control laws suck but that's alot harder to change than putting ac in your window
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NeededSleep
Member
You would think the WEF would be pushing gun ownership all across the world and going out in the sun for hours on end with these numbers.
HeisenbergFX4
Member
Also the thing about our gun control laws is how do we change now?
No one is getting my firearms as I am 100% a law abiding citizen and good luck going door to door in a state like Kentucky that has enough guns in that state alone to be like the 3rd largest army in the world, and thats just the registered guns
One of my handguns I very seldom ever use is a Colt 1911 .45 carried (and used) by my grandfather in WW2 plus an over under .22/410 shottie he gave me for squirrel hunting when I was a kid
Think anyone in my government is getting those just to be melted down?
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
Yeah you have a point. Most people wouldn't give up their guns this isn't like sticking an ac unit in your window even if God forbid it would require some kind of window adaptor.
HeisenbergFX4
Member
Law abiding citizens wont give them up, good luck taking them from criminals or actually even locating those guns
America is pretty fucked with how many actual bad people have guns
AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
Owning guns and being responsible with them. Makes you more moral than those that want to take them away or give them up. Immoral people want to deny their citizens rights and privileges.
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
That is a wild take brother but I agree
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Miles708
Member
I am not used to live thinking any random person I encounter could or could not have a pistol under his jacket. That's certainly one less problem to deal with, in my opinion.
HeisenbergFX4
Member
I am 58 years old and have been around guns my entire life since my dad and my grandfather took me hunting all the time
Have owned guns and went to shooting matches again literally my whole life and still have my little .22 rifle I took to shooting matches as a kid
My wife and I have been together for 25 years and she also grew up on a farm with a dad and grandfather who took her hunting as a kid
We both conceal carry at all times
We have been to dozens of training courses over the years and have our own 100 yard gun range (just a massive mound of dirt up against a hill with no houses within miles) and we practice our handguns and AR15s often
We have a Mantis indoor system that we practice with indoors often
Why should we ever have to give up our firearms?
We shouldn't
Not giving up our AC either btw
AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
Gun rights are somewhat about the individual and protection from for ones person. But more importantly than personal protection they prevent the radicalization of your government. From Germany to Russia to Cuba, Cambodia and beyond. Every government that has become extreme and destroyed its own people has stripped the rights of gun ownership from them. All under the guise of "it is for your own good or Protection" As I think Franklin said, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety". Never surrender your rights for what someone is trying to tell you is "the greater good". The government has their own power in their self interest not the health of their citizens.
Miles708
Member
Personally I'm 100% in favour of not having to think about guns when going out and about during daily life, but I am also pro gun-ownership for personal property defence (aka only inside your own home/shop).
I don't see how having a gun can save or help you at all once someone else starts shooting, to be honest. I know i would 100% run away and don't even think about shooting back. Hell, thinking about it i'm so glad i don't live in a part of the world where this can even be a concern.
In any case, the part you said about having the means to defend youself against government, is not without its merits. You could have a point there.
HeisenbergFX4
Member
Thats part of the whole problem are the ones who go looking for that fight almost in hopes of using their guns
Around my hometown in Southern Indiana we have a well known old guy that goes into all stores openly carrying 2 guns like the old wild west days
In all my years of carrying a gun outside of shooting at a coyote being near my house I have only ever felt one time I was glad I had it
Was coming out of Atlanta very early in the morning like maybe 2 or 3 AM and we needed gas bad so I picked a store and as soon as we got there my wife says this looks sketchy
While I was pumping a couple of people comes out of the shadows on the side of the building heading our general direction and I just took off my jacket revealing my gun and just stared at them and they went back to the side of the building
Never touched my gun but I made sure they saw it as most thugs are looking for easy targets
If someone starts shooting you'd better hope it wasn't at you or you get hit before you know what's happened. Avoiding random blind firing is purely down to luck but you aren't going to outrun a bullet if you decide to leg it.
Duels existed because there was some "honor" in them but random pot shots aren't going to be resisted no matter the supposed skill or training the victim has, films are films and real life are bullets traveling quicker than people can deal with.
AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
I never think or worry about guns even when I know myself and the people around me could be carrying weapons. It just isn't what you think about. You think about, Why did I come to this store, and do I really need 30 lbs of beef from Costco.
A gun free zone is a joke. I would not knowingly carry on one, as I do not want a federal charge. and weirdly most gun free places are federal property. There is not some huge safety issue in society because people have guns.
Miles708
Member
Knowing anyone around me could have a gun wouldn't make me feel much safer if i can be completely honest.
My point exactly.
What
HeisenbergFX4
said about de-escalating a dangerous situation can be a proper way to use it, but even there i feel it's a gun-based solution to a gun-based problem, that lies in a more fundamental level.Personally i never even saw a gun up close and certainly hope i won't have to in the near future.
I'm also sweating profusely because of no AC.
HeisenbergFX4
Member
A well-regulated militia
That's the bigger problem!
cash_longfellow
Member
Don't worry, Chicago is single-handedly working on changing this 
Madserb2023
Member
Living in the UK, people here are largely oblivious to heat. Yes, AC is not as common as in the US and our buildings have been built to keep in heat as for most of our history its been colder. However, there is just a high level of stupidity where people here will go for a jog in 35 degrees or go climbing up mountains and realise they can't get down. I have been to Arizona and one thing I noticed was how few people were walking around in the heat. Here, people would be doing the marathon.
AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
M
Madserb2023
Arizona is a literal desert. Europe has 0 deserts. Arizona is livable because we have used rivers to make it viable.
I don't think Europe has even one climate zone as arid as Az Nevada or New Mexico.
I don't think Europe has even one climate zone as arid as Az Nevada or New Mexico.
HeisenbergFX4
Member
Have been to Arizona many times (as with about every other state in this country) and you should compare the heat with high humidity vs that of Arizona heat
Walk outside in 100 degree temps with 60%+ humidity
My AC in my area of Southern Indiana is run by a heat pump that runs at a low speed almost continuously mainly to remove humidity
Its funny because we live the Winters near Miami FL and the breeze coming off the ocean makes the perceived humidity lower and even during the summer months it feels much cooler in Miami Fl than it does Southern Indiana
Unknown Soldier
Member
You can tell who in these conversations has ever actually been to America and who hasn't
I wonder if Europeans who visit America their heads explode when they realize America looks just the same. People aren't carrying guns on their belts for each other to look at and challenging each other to duels. I mean, maybe we should. That would be kind of cool actually
America has a lower murder rate and a lower rape rate than most industrialized nations if you separate out the statistics by certain communities. Because it is racist to do this sort of statistical analysis you have to say things like "13% of the wizards cast 50% of the spells". Anything more specific will get you canceled
I wonder if Europeans who visit America their heads explode when they realize America looks just the same. People aren't carrying guns on their belts for each other to look at and challenging each other to duels. I mean, maybe we should. That would be kind of cool actually
America has a lower murder rate and a lower rape rate than most industrialized nations if you separate out the statistics by certain communities. Because it is racist to do this sort of statistical analysis you have to say things like "13% of the wizards cast 50% of the spells". Anything more specific will get you canceled
Zathalus
Member
It's also trivial to spot who hasn't been to Europe either. Or have been to London for one week and then extrapolate it to the rest of the continent.
FeralEcho
Member
Ah that beautiful american ego thinking everything is about them.
A surefire way to crumble that ego is to bring out a world map and just ask any american to point to a higher number of european cities on the map than the guns in their cabinet then laugh when their heart sinks as they shit the bed.
For what it's worth I do agree the US military is a safety net for EU but I don't think it is as important as americans think it is.
The high mortality rate has to do with the low AC installs in each home. I personally don't have AC because of how much it costs to have one. I have up to 35 degrees at time in the house,I deal with it but I can see how the elderly would be affected.
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AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
Accused of ego but agrees with premise. That is a win win.
We need one map. Location of us military presence.
Modern American education is pretty terrible. But I was homeschooled. I have a pretty classical education. But can barely read.
HeisenbergFX4
Member
Even though a large number of Americans travel abroad most simply don't care where European cities are just like many Europeans do not care where American cities are
Sadly I bet you could stand in any American city today and find 20 to 30 something year olds and a large chunk of them couldn't pick out where even American cities are actually located on a map
FeralEcho
Member
And here I was waiting for you to make me point on the US map and me coming up with a nice retort how I don't need to because I don't have any guns in my cabinet.Accused of ego but agrees with premise. That is a win win.
We need one map. Location of us military presence.
Modern American education is pretty terrible. But I was homeschooled. I have a pretty classical education. But can barely read.
FeralEcho
Member
It's the same in Europe,the new generation is brainrotten by social media overuse.
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Madserb2023
Member
I understand all that. In a thread full of American bashing I just want to bring to light the stupidity of Europeans especially the British. There was a spate of British tourists dying in Greece during the last heat wave. Many in their 60s. When you look into it, they didn't die indoors in a nice air conditioned room, it was while going for a hike up a mountain at 45 degrees without enough water. You could die of heat sterike at any age let alone 65. We are the equivalent of news reporters trying to stand up in a hurricane for TV.
Zathalus
Member
Europe has a desert. It is located in Spain, where it was a nice cool 115F in parts of the country last week.
TDiddyLive
Member
You're more likely to get killed by heat in Europe than get killed by a gun in America. Trying to talk shit about gun ownership but can't figure out how to stay cool enough to live? I grew up in an area where temperatures regularly hit over 100° in the summer and my house didn't have air conditioning. Nobody died from the heat in my house.
Klosshufvud
Member
Extremely disingenous comparison. The people who die from heat waves are generally extremely old and frail. The people who die in gun violence are generally young with their whole lives in front of them. The average years lost per death is not remotely similar. Sort of like how covid was a real bad killer but then the year after covid, we had actually less elderly deaths as the weakest had died slightly prematurely. Also the WHO claim is hardly actual fact. It's an estimate based on extreme extrapolation of data. We don't know how many die of heat wave in Europe, that number is extremely difficult to extract and most of all we don't know what this has on impact on the average expected life expectancy - probably zero.
If we're going to be elitist about America vs Europe health data, compare how many die of obesity in America compared to Europe. A completely preventable disease that is, unlike heat waves which are hard to accomodate for since European weather is generally very fluctuating, with intense heat only existing for about 1-2 months a year.
If we're going to be elitist about America vs Europe health data, compare how many die of obesity in America compared to Europe. A completely preventable disease that is, unlike heat waves which are hard to accomodate for since European weather is generally very fluctuating, with intense heat only existing for about 1-2 months a year.
Klosshufvud
Member
If he's aged what the regular NeoGaf user is aged, then absolutely not. You're extremely unlikely to die from a heat wave in Europe if you're not elderly and frail, who have low reserve capacities to accomodate for loss of fluids.
Cyberpunkd
Banned
That is not true and I blame Evilore for making a clickbait topic. Truth is a lot of these people are in poor health or older (also in poor health). Even then you can still do something about it e.g. make sure you stay in the shade or drink a lot of water.
By comparison you have way less control over dying or not if you are shot by a gun.
Zacfoldor
Member
Honestly, this is an insane argument to me as an American.
First we don't rank life here in America. So I don't count the years left until death as relevant to this. Do murderers get less time in EU for murdering the elderly? In America they get MORE time. Elderly are a protected class and elder abuse is strictly enforced. In fact, they will get you if you are elderly adjacent and don't help. If if your mom and dad die in a house without AC that you visit often, you will be answering questions.
Second, AC is ubiquitous over here in all but the poorest households. I currently live in Mississippi. The heat and moreso the humidity can get terrible during the summer. I feel oh so terribly sorry for the poor folks around here who have to swelter this heat with just their windows open and a fan. I can't imagine living in a place where AC was banned. Surviving isn't my only goal, comfort is too. Surviving without comfort is suffering. Especially when it's 80 percent humidity and 100 degrees outside. Playstation would not even fucking PLAY in our heat, so I don't know what to do without AC? Die maybe. Sweat my stinking ass off? For sure. That's not counting the bugs. Our bugs do not fuck around. Leave a window open for 10 seconds and welcome to horsefly hell. Female horseflies TARGET you and will never stop until they get blood for their eggs.
I mean, we also own cars, and every car here has AC on at all times during the summer. How can you go from an AC car to no AC in the home? That's insane to me.
I feel so sorry for these poor old folks dying in the EU because why, they banned window units? Wow dude. Like why? Is the environment that important that we will let grandma burn up in a hot car to save an insignificant amount of co bullshit 2? At least guns serve the purpose of protection. AC bans only benefit is to kill people with heat stroke and to prevent noise polution(WTF!?). How is noise pollution from widow units even a thing in the EU. What a farce. People are insane.
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StreetsofBeige
Member
Nothing wrong with AC in home or car. It makes everything more comfortable to live. Who wants to purposely swelter just for the hell of it?
If people in Europe dont have AC much due to preferences in living style, window AC units are hard to come by, a lot of old buildings cant install ductwork, and utility bills go through the roof just because people turn on AC, so be it. Some of it is personal choice, while some seem like poor infrastructure and wacky utility bills that are out of people's control. I got AC on all summer (like now) and my utility bill barely nudges. It budges more during winter when its 24/7 heat. But AC 24/7 is a zero factor. Europeans would embrace it more if their gov and buildings could handle it better. All you need to do for homes and buildings is allow either boring window AC units, or build from the foundation with ductwork and have a central AC system. You can even have it all installed brand new in homes too. Just need a home with a half decent structure that can handle renos putting in tubes in your walls and floors and govs allowing it.
If utility bills get crazy due to AC, who knows why. I guess all the utility companies and plants were built to not handle lots of usage.
I'm pretty sure they all love AC at work or in cars. So it shows AC isnt a hated thing. But more of an inaccessible thing.
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Liljagare
Member
WHO estimates 175,000 people per year in the European Region die from heat-related causes. Lower bounds are at 50,000-60,000 per year from EEA and Nature studies.
There are 48,000 gun related deaths in the USA each year, including suicides. The CDC reports 1600 heat-related deaths per year in the United States, mostly in the desert regions like Arizona and Nevada.
Window air conditioning units, the cheap, convenient, effective cooling solution in response to a heat wave, are effectively banned in Europe due to EU regulations on energy efficiency and noise (and having anything stick out of your window, and probably several other regulations I'm not aware of). Portable hose-exhaust type AC units are sold in stores, passing regulation for some reason, despite being almost useless. The typical recommended solution is a split duct wall-mounted AC, which is not a viable solution for renters lacking AC.
This seems...unreasonable.
It seems in the EU, if a person dies from a heart attack, that might be due to heat stress, it is reported as a heat related death, while in the US, it is reported as a heart attack.
Covid really showed us the differences in reporting methods, I'd guess this is in the same region.
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Liljagare
Member
Can only speak for Scandinavia, we have heat pumps instead of AC's. We still hit major temps during summer, but a heat pump is reversable. Heat pumps are very common, pure AC units, hardly anyone owns them. The heat pumps let us stay warm though too when it's -25 outside. Ground heat/cooling ftw.
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Ironbunny
Member
That study seems to include 53 countries. EU has 27. "Southern Europe and western Europe suffered between 80 and 290 times the number of fatalities as northern Europe and the Western Balkan countries, though the aggregate average populations are only between five and 10 times larger. Compared to central-eastern European countries, the number of people who died in southern Europe and western Europe is roughly between 12 to 28 times as large, against total average populations which are around twice the size."
www.eea.europa.eu
Economic losses and fatalities from weather- and climate-related extremes
This briefing is about the significant fatalities and economic losses from natural hazards between 1980 and 2023. It also examines the widening insurance protection gap, includes fresh data on six Western Balkan countries and insights to complement the relevant annual indicator .