CadetMahoney
Member
Yes I do. Also two wrongs don't make a right.
You like watching underage sex? Don't know why your so defensive about it.
More Than 600 Paedophile Suspects Arrested
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Yes I do. Also two wrongs don't make a right.
You like watching underage sex? Don't know why your so defensive about it.
SkeptiMism
Member
Ok. Now please explain me what's wrong with watching animated things.
Now that's real mature. Let's stay away from accusations maybe?
There are plenty of pedophiles who control themselves. If you have any empathy, you can imagine how horrible being a pedophile must be. They need help and going after them with torches doesn't help anyone.
Now, please explain me why animated things are wrong.
Did you just censor "crap"?
Well they are easy to spot, GAF has told me it's anyone with an anime avatar :/
This is a pretty prime example of how pedophiles will never be under control or the problem fixed due to people's thinking. America's first thought is "OMG monster lock them up!" but they will be free in a couple years and then...? Even if they hurt or molest a kid their is a good chance they will be out in short order. It's mental disorder, and some doctors even classify it as a straight up sexual orientation, either way its not something that is fixed by just throwing someone in jail. The problem is people don't want to deal with other people and mental illness despite the occasional "oh poor deary" from people is not taken seriously or funded well until its smack in someone's face. Especially something like this which is abhorrent and taboo and people just don't want to talk about it except the initial drive by condemnation.
Thank you for implying that SkeptiMism is a pedophile. People making posts like this is why it's hard to discuss controversial topics.
That's not a very convincing argument.
Putting on a similar level the rights to be protected of a real human being and a drawing, is already somewhat grotesque.
You don't ban things that you simply find "gross", you ban things that involve an actual victim, like in this case.
Dragonborn
Member
It's the easiest way of getting out of an argument about something controversial, just blame the other person and accuse them of stuff. It's why discussing stuff like this is difficult and frankly, pointless.
CadetMahoney
Member
Nice try, but the question was why animated underage sex is not wrong. IIRC the UK government already draws the line there, as do many ppl, they even ban depictions of rape from what I remember.
The UK government already thinks that's wrong, but probably not because it's a gateway to real pics. I think they wouldn't "allow it" either way.
Nicktendo86
Member
That's an interesting thought, never really thought of pedophilia as a curable mental illness before, do you have any data to back up your claim that plenty of pedophiles control themselves?
As for watching animated things, I would say it is just weird. Why would anyone watch an animation of underage people have sex? Must be an easy link from going to that to seeking out live action stuff?
"I'm fine if every once in a while the Gestapo check my papers. Everything is in order!"
Nicktendo86
Member
Are we comparing the Gestapo now to the UK government?
Can you qualify your claim by which, in your opinion, someone looking at drawings depicting questionable acts, should serve a "long jail sentence" or not?
Would you argue the same about fictional depictions of rape, murder and torture?
Dragonborn
Member
It's pretty simple really, it hurts no one and it's fictional.
Honestly, I'd much rather have some pedophile looking at that stuff rather than having them looking at, and encouraging the real stuff which is actually hurting real childrent (and hurting is a understatement).
How else would you suggest society deal with those individuals? Would you have all pedophiles locked away in prison, even if they did nothing wrong? Would all of them be committed? As evident in this thread, it's almost impossible to have a proper discussion before someone calls you names.
Everything has to start somehow. Giving away personal liberties isn't a good idea, even if you rationalize it.
Yeah, thats unfair. They are more like the Stasi in East Germany after WWII. Look at the recent appeals for anyone thinking their family or neighbours might be Jihadists
Nicktendo86
Member
While that was rather pointless (I'm sure if family members were going to shop their relative they would do so without being asked) and it was heavy handed I see why they did the appeal.
What does this part of your post have to do with your question?
If you want my answer to the question...
I couldn't care less what other people watch, and as long as it isn't hurting anyone, neither should you or anybody else.
SkeptiMism
Member
Well, it's generally considered as a mental disorder, but there are psychologists saying it's a sexual orientation/preference and that kinda makes sense to me at least as people tend to have very various kinds of things that they're sexually into. A lot of people are into old people for example, so why wouldn't there be a lot of people who are into children, as nasty as that may be. I'm sure there is some info on this somewhere, but I'm too lazy to bother looking for it at the moment sorry.
I wouldn't say the link from watching animated child hentai to real porn is easy, as the real porn isn't nearly as easy to come by first of all. And naturally, anyone sensible knows that watching real child porn isn't right at all, so a sensible pedophile would stay away from it I'd imagine.
It is exaggerating to make a point. It has nothing to do with what this government is or isn't, it is more about people's willingness to let governments invade their privacy because of this notion that they haven't done anything wrong, therefore the government will leave them alone. And of course the Gestapo would have left you alone too, if you haven't done anything wrong.
Nicktendo86
Member
Interesting viewpoints. Its not as easy as to say lock them all up, I see what you are saying that people may have urges that they cannot control. But those urges can lead to real suffering, I really don't know.
There is no easy answer.
Edit: Leadbelly I understand completely, however there are real threats out there and the game has changed with the internet/social media etc. The balance between personal liberty and protecting vulnerable people is difficult to strike.
There is no easy answer.
Edit: Leadbelly I understand completely, however there are real threats out there and the game has changed with the internet/social media etc. The balance between personal liberty and protecting vulnerable people is difficult to strike.
Another problem is like other stigmas associated with mental issues those people may never want to come forward to get the help they need in fear of being branded. And without help for so long their urges may build up until one day someone does get hurt.
freenudemacusers
Member
is being an ephebophile still cool?
asking for a friend ofc
maybe this is the wrong forum for that question ZAP BURN ZING
asking for a friend ofc
well, how many hetero dudes don't act on their desires in some fashion?
maybe this is the wrong forum for that question ZAP BURN ZING
There isn't an easy solution, but the easiest way, imo, would be to treat it like an incurable mental illness.
I'd say most decent people would be against locking up everyone with mental illness, even if potentially dangerous, on the other hand you also don't want to push this people into dark corners or leave them to themselves and their potentially destructive/self destructive behavior.
In the end it's a matter of transparency and public understanding of what we're facing (or rather, trying not to face).
Thing is, it's an area of humanity too scary to acknowledge properly and rationally, for most people.
Helping someone and curing it are two different things, I think that's important to keep in mind. You can still help someone deal with their situation so they can lead a normal life even if it's something that's not curable (and I'm not convinced that it would be any more curable than any other sexual attraction).
With the amount of "18 years old - Barely legal!" porn out there, I suspect that ephebophilia is not particularly abnormal.
pants
Member
Is your friend perhaps named gratisnakedapplepatron?
eot
Banned
Nothing bad ass about it, we have justice system.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
I wonder how many of those people are actual, properly defined pedophiles and how many are being labeled as such for messing around with someone who was simply under the age of consent. The hysteria over it also comes down to the complete abuse of the word by the media and ignorant public labeling anyone under 18 as pedobait.
Yeah but pedos aren't into 14 year olds, not sure how many prepubescent groupies there are...
Yeah but pedos aren't into 14 year olds, not sure how many prepubescent groupies there are...
I'm not sure that rehabilitation doesn't work. AFAIK, there isn't any actual effort being put into it right now (in the US at least).
Is it the right balance though? I am pretty sure they're using GCHQ to do this. In fact when Newsnight first covered it, they had a spokesman for GCHQ defending it, and of course one of the reasons he gave was paedophilia,
It sounds like a good reason, so I know why he said that. However, stopping paedophiles is not a national security issue. It isn't the job of the intelligence services to do forensics, it is the job of the police. Using the capability of GCHQ I'm sure would help them find paedophiles quite quickly. it would help them find evidence quite quickly, the problem is, we have laws protecting us from suspicionless surveillance like this from the police.
Tesseract
Banned
isn't it more sexual orientation than psychiatric disorder, or does the fact that pedophilic acts cause harm change the ballgame?
The problem is that not everyone is the same. Some will benefit greatly from rehabilitation and be thankful for it, but of course there are others who don't give a fuck and will just keep doing what they do when they get out of prison or 'rehab', etc.
Tesseract
Banned
right, but that's because pedophilia stabilizes through puberty in the same way hetero or homosexuality does.
There is very little to no real rehabilitation being put into this. I worked with a guy who molested his nephew. He had to live with his mom and dad and he very clearly had mental issues (regressed mentality, dude thought wrestling was real mom and dad took care of him and he was in his late 20's). He only served jail time before hearing and was out on probation and had to see a counselor once a month. That was it. He still had impulses and when I became manager I had to fire him for groping one of the female workers ass.
As I said before, mental disorders and research gets very little funding and Pedophilia? Well just thiink who is willing to fund research on it?
Chezzymann
Member
This whole thing is starting to resemble more of a witch hunt than anything else, at least in my opinion.
But really, you believe consuming child pornography keeps someone blame free? Just because they haven't actually touched someone?
By viewing child pornography they are creating a demand for child pornography and someone is going to cash in on that by creating new material.
And hell you can be more active than that from behind the screen, as it's possible to pay to see children molested and worse on web cams now.
Anyone creating, sharing and using live\real material deserves what's coming to them.
Edit: tiny changes in phrasing.
KillerMan91
Member
So do you think that people watching rape porn should be put also in jail? You know it's one of the most popular fetishes when it comes to porn. We would run out of prisons....
I'm not sure what the current consensus is within the scientific community and regardless the distinction is a matter of semantics. The problem is there's no real effort being put into actually preventing the abuse from happening apart from throwing people in prison and hoping no one else does it.
Nicktendo86
Member
Honestly, I don't know. I HOPE so at least, and that we had cross party consensus on the legislation last week I hope all parties agree the level of threat justifies the means.
Your point was ridiculous, as was your accusation.
I dont see why anyone would want to look at those kind of cartoon pics, and yes I find it as weird as the next guy....but the thought that I could take out a pen and paper right now, draw a picture and suddenly be put in the same boat as Jimmy Saville or Gary Glitter is not a world I want to be a part of.
The UK government is trying to pass judgement on something that they don't fully understand.
They did the same thing with rape fetish because they think that they encourage people to copy them.
Pretty much exactly what I was going to say. Like anything else demand drives production - the active exploitation and harm of children. This isn't a thought crime situation -if your are attracted to children but don't act on it you will not be arrested. Viewing child pornography is a crime, causes harm, and will rightly get you arrested.
This is something I have mentioned in a couple of threads actually. There is evidence this is what the NSA is doing in the US. Law enforcement are ordered not to say where the information came from. They have to do what is called 'parallel constructions'. Basically they get all the information they need, and then construct the process of getting that information through legal means. Basically it appears they're just gaming the system. lol
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/05/us-dea-sod-idUSBRE97409R20130805
This is an incredibly dangerous path we're going down.
This sort of thing is completely unacceptable, as is "Pedo Defense Force" for anyone who doesn't want to shoot pedophiles on sight. I don't think anyone's going to suggest I'm a big fan of pedophiles, but if we're going to talk about this, we need to talk about all of, including the fact that pedophiles exist, that they're people, and that in some cases they're good people who were born with execrable desires they can't control. I'm not looking for a lot of "pedophilia acceptance" here, but accusing fellow members, even slyly, because they're trying to take a nuanced view of a very difficult situation, is just a shitty thing to do.
So don't do it.
That's not how the internet works. You leave "fingerprints" everywhere you go. On servers all around the world. Even on your own computer.
And one's for sure - you are simply not able to "rape and murder" a child online. That's simply not possible.
And in any case it's not acceptable, because what they are trying to do/what they are actually doing is not how a constitutional democracy should work and terrorists + pedophiles are just silly excuses anyway to monitor the whole population.
Those 2 are wonderful excuses. It's really easy to shut down anyone, who dares to complain about surveilance. It's quite sad that Hitler + Stasi didn't come up with those, because in that case those excuses simply wouldn't work anymore.
The joke doesn't work in the US.
D
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Region locking sucks.
Dorsal Axe
Member
Yeah, my thoughts exactly.
It's good they busted these people, but this isn't even scratching the surface. Within the establishment is allegedly where the worst abuse is taking place.
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