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[Red Crayon Aristocrat]

3D fighting games were perfectly popular back then, they didn't need Mortal Kombat's help.

No disrespect to that era of MK, but they didn't "save" fighting games.

 

[Krappadizzle]

I dunno, like sports games, I never felt like I needed a lot of yearly releases to keep my interest in a genre. My buddy and I were content in playing DOA3 for years on Xbox. But even if we weren't, it never felt like there was a lack of fighting games to choose from, we just found the one we enjoyed playing and stuck with it.

 

[cireza]

There were many great 3D fighting games back then, and Mortal Kombat did not sound that important to the genre to me, even if I did play the second entry on Gamecube and had fun with it.

I liked the fact that you could basically one-kill your opponent with the background.

 

[SkylineRKR]

I ignored that trilogy. There were a lot of fighters during that timeline that were succesful. DoA on Xbox was a hit. Tekken Tag and even Tekken 4 were still hits. As was Soul Calibur and even VF4 did well on PS2. Compare it to today, Tekken 7, SC VI made on a shoestring budget. DoA6 with its idiotic MTX. Thats about it for 3D fighting.

MK was one of the least popular at the time. MK was dead actually, until Netherrealm made that mediocre DC crossover. That did surprisingly well and MK9 was greenlit, which was actually good and a success.

 

[Nyxir]

Did I just enter an alternate dimension?

 

[The_Observer]

As an MK fan since childhood, the ps2 trilogy was a disaster to me. Terrible all around. I even loved MK4 but the ps2 trilogy was terrible. Then MK 2011 came and saved me. Fan ever since again. The DC game wasn’t bad either.

 

[NiiloPielinen]

3D fighters are dead

Tekken 7 has sold over 7 million, it is estimated to surpass Tekken 3 which was the best selling Tekken game so far.

 

[Ozzie666]

Dead or Alive 3 gets no respect on Xbox..

 

[Rean no Kiseki]

Good joke.

 

[Mr Branding]

Played and loved ps2 mk’s for what they were but they didn’t hold a candle to soulcalibur 2 and 3.

 

[WhiskeyDiver]

Those MK games are some of the worst in franchise history.

I had fun with the ps2 era games. I cleared every crypt that any of them had. I don't remember if all 3 had the crypt unlockable or not.

 

[lyan]

During that era it's all about the arcade scene for fighting games in Japan, the Gundam vs series was also very popular and arcades were all packed full back then.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Tekken 7 has sold over 7 million, it is estimated to surpass Tekken 3 which was the best selling Tekken game so far.

Tekken 7 is definitely a success, but besides Tekken 3D fighters are essentially dead. I’m pretty sure I even heard Harada-san say that 3D fighters are dead. Barely anyone to my knowledge comes out with them anymore. Maybe everyone makes 2D fighters only because they are easier or cheaper to produce or something?

Imo, Tekken 7’s success doesn’t mean the 3D genre is alive, well and booming like it used to back in the day. Back then we had 3D games regularly like Bloody Roar, Toshinden, Kensai: Sacred Fist, War Gods, Soul Blade, Tobal, MK: Deception, Last Bronx, Plasma Sword, Fighting Vipers, Virtua Fighter, Fighters Megamix to name a few. I like 2D fighters as well, but I do miss getting new 3D fighters.

 

[The Pleasure]

Your knowledge of this genre shall be great!

What's a fighting game?

I met you on a Thursday....

 

[The Gorby Congressmanz]

Its funny to go and read threads over the last few years here and at the other place wondering if the FGC is egotistical and out of reach with the mainstream inside there own bubnle, and it seems the bias against MK is so bad people are missing the point of the thread.

Seeing people listing Street Fighter 3 as a game that appealed to anything but a niche set of enthusiasts for the time is crazy. People aggressively freaking out because they don't like MKs quality which doesn't negate the fact it was the second best selling fighter in that era, quality was never the point, although some posts are a bit overblown in attacking it.

The bias is so bad people even mentioned games I already did in the OP, and it's not like all of them only read the title, looking at some of the responses some did read the OP but only read what they felt was needed.

Then you have guys acting like I wasn't aware of the PS2s fighting library, im well aware, has nothing to do with appeal to the gaming population. Which was under massive expansion at the time.

One can just look at old threads here and on other websites to see people contemplating the state of fighting games during the Xbox/ps2 times. Theres a reason for that and it doesn't involve FGC enthusiasts.

But I guess this is similar behavior to how the FGC reacted to MK9 and MKX. Which are now even bigger than MK during this period. Or the SFV launch.

What's crazy about it is since 1995 nearly every fighter has been vastly more accessible than MK, which is banned in a lot of countries and regions which makes this more tragic.

 

[mcjmetroid]

Fighting games will always come and go. Genres do tend to have revivals and down periods.

Yes Mortal Kombat kept 3D fighting games going at a time when there wasn't that many but it didn't " save " anything.
Fighting games will always be around in some form or another.

 

[The Gorby Congressmanz]

Either you're deluded as the OP or I am with your contextual narrative. I'm guessing its you with everyone feeling confused.

the bias is so strong guy doesn't know Im the OP.

 

[The Gorby Congressmanz]

Fighting games will always come and go. Genres do tend to have revivals and down periods.

Yes Mortal Kombat kept 3D fighting games going at a time when there wasn't that many but it didn't " save " anything.
Fighting games will always be around in some form or another.

If I use this same logic for The NES and "saving" the industry, I'd be swarmed including likely by you, despite new game companies, new releases, and consoles still being sold before late 1986. So games were still around.

 

[ZywyPL]

The first 3D MK was THE shit back in the days within PC crowd, since there wasn't much variety of fighting games on the platform, but on consoles everyone was still playing mostly either Tekken or Soul Calibur. And after MK4 the series basically vanished for a looong time, until successful return on PS3/X360 in 2011, so I wouldn't say it saved the genre when it barely saved itself...

 

[mcjmetroid]

If I use this same logic for The NES and "saving" the industry, I'd be swarmed including likely by you, despite new game companies, new releases, and consoles still being sold before late 1986. So games were still around.

Am I'm not sure what to tell you, everything in my post is a fact. Take it whatever way you want.

 

[sn0man]

OP while it isn’t my favorite of the MK series I will admit to the everywhereness in the USA of the MK games. Many friends that weren’t into Tekken or VF really liked or at least owned and F’d around with those PS2 MK games.

But then Mortal Kombat comes in, after a mixed reception but still well selling MK4, Mortal Kombat had a refresh with Deadly Alliance, a game that shook up the gaming kommunity and one of the first major game franchises to to kill off it's long running protagonist, at the start of the game. Everything was new from the mechanics, the design goals, the content, the technology, it wowed everyone.

Woah! …. Woah! OP spoiler tag cmon.

Also I guess despite the frontloaded launch novelty, Dead or Alive 3 could technically also count for a very short time frame.

You can’t discount the frontloaded novelties of a DOA game.

Mortal Kombat Deception is the most popular of the 3 major MK fighting games during this time, with it having the best balance and mechanical gameplay of the 3, online play, and a massive SP adventure/fighting hybrid campaign that may still have the most kontent of any fighting game in existence with all the bonuses and goodies you can find in the crypt and the overworld during the SP adventure.

I loved the massive single player but I found the focus on stances annoying and ultimately I remember the franchise as more a hinderance. I get from a sales perspective they might seem like saviors of the genre….

Tekken 5 was PS2 exclusive and sold 6 million copies. Tekken Tag sold 2.3 million copies. Tekken 4 sold 2 million copies. MK was multiplatform and judging by your figures, none of them outsold Tekken 5 on their own. Tekken was in no way struggling. Virtua Fighter 4 was PS2 exclusive and sold 1.5 million copies. I'm not knocking MK.

But I think that Tekken and VF4 carried the 3D fighter genre just fine. The time period we are talking about before the 360/PS3 and after the DC is only 5 years OP. As quoted above the PS2 specifically had some Japanese exclusives on lock and still did modestly well.

I also had a shit ton of fun playing DA and Deception. DA in particular, I loved unlocking all the shit in the Krypt. So I guess you can say I enjoyed MK for the single player content and games like Tekken and SF were more for MP sessions with friends.

Me too. This is exactly my time between Dreamcast and DOA4 on 360. I loved me some TK and VF for gaming with friends and I grinded out MK with its terrible straight to VHS story and convoluted stances just for the content ant unlocks. If nothing else MK should be lauded for its experimentation into single player and variety.

 

[Enjay]

No it didn't. It wasn't even popular back then.

 

[The Gorby Congressmanz]

Am I'm not sure what to tell you, everything in my post is a fact. Take it whatever way you want.

That's a question toward you if you would keep the same standard, which is so I have no problem with what you posted.

 

[The Gorby Congressmanz]

The first 3D MK was THE shit back in the days within PC crowd, since there wasn't much variety of fighting games on the platform, but on consoles everyone was still playing mostly either Tekken or Soul Calibur. And after MK4 the series basically vanished for a looong time, until successful return on PS3/X360 in 2011, so I wouldn't say it saved the genre when it barely saved itself...

What I find funny is people keep saying this yet the 3D MK games are what saved MK in the first place, MK4 did well initially for obvious reasons like 2.5D and such, coming off Trilogy, but that died off. MK Deadly Alliance literally restored the franchise, before MK9 it was the third best selling Mortal Kombat game. Sold 2 million in just a couple months and later sold 3.5 million. Was a big deal at the time.

Tekken was down during this time, and Soul Calibur 1+2+3 combined didn't sell 3 million with Soul Calibur 2 GC which iirc was the best selling one overall not even doing 1 million copies and none except the first game on DC selling more than 200k in Japan, and even then the first game on DC didn't sell more than 300k.

I'm not here to talk about the quality of the games, even though they are more competent than what some people say here, it's clear they were more about trying out new things and having fun with the voices and fighting styles than really making anything like Virtua Fighter, but that was always the case even currently, but this is about sales and whether people actually went to the store to buy the games and MK was pretty popular, with the only real rival it had being Tekken when that revived with Tekken 5.

The fact that the current MK games have sold so much is really the result of the japanese developers ignoring the marketplace for the FGC, even Killer Instincts Reboot has the insane user numbers many japanese games won't ever touch f2p, it's retail version did pretty well also. I mean some of these games are good, like Tekken 7 and KOFIV, they just don't really grab many gamers attention, and I mean gamers not just casuals, even semi-fans of fighting games aren't really running out in droves for sFV or Blazeblu, they are getting Tekken7, MK, KI, and DBZ.

 

[PhaseJump]

Mortal Kombat is trash, and so is the OP of this thread.

 

[Faithless83]

Saved from what? Street fighter 3rd Strike and MvC2?

 

[YCoCg]

Ooohhh I think I've picked up on this now, the OP makes insane claims and then shouts bias at people who don't agree.

 

[The Gorby Congressmanz]

Ooohhh I think I've picked up on this now, the OP makes insane claims and then shouts bias at people who don't agree.

Sales numbers are absurd now smh.

 

[ReBurn]

Tekken & Soul Calibur for me when it came to 3D fighters

It's still this way for me.

 

[K1Expwy]

During that era it's all about the arcade scene for fighting games in Japan, the Gundam vs series was also very popular and arcades were all packed full back then.

VF4's popularity in any JP arcade was about as big as Street Fighter 2. Tekken 5+6 carried the torch when VF5 was popular but not as gigantic as 4. Guilty Gear and other "airdashers" were also rising in prominence

 

[yurinka]

Wtf? Some of the Dreamcast library (many of them also available on PS1 or mostly PS2 and similar):

Marvel vs Capcom 2
Street Fighter III W Impact & 3rd Strike
Capcom vs SNK 1, Pro and 2
Darkstalkers 3
Jojo's Bizarre Adventure
Pocket Fighters
Power Stone 1 & 2
Soul Calibur 2
Dead or Alive 2
Virtua Fighter 3
Guilty Gear X
Fatal Fury Mark of the Wolves
The Last Blade 2
KOF 98, 99, 2000

In PS2 there were more like Tekken Tag Tournament, Tekken 4 or 5, the DBZ Budokai games, etc. It was basically the golden era of the fighting games, many of the best fighting games ever were made back then. Back then MK games were garbage after MK3 compared to them.

Then, after the Dreamcast days it's true that other than a few honorable exceptions like Soul Calibur 3 the genre remained pretty much dead a few years until the Street Fighter IV release, which caused a big bang and made the genre popular again.

 

[nush]

Dead or Alive 3 gets no respect on Xbox..

I'm with you, although DOA Ultimate was played more by me.

 

[Fahdis]

the bias is so strong guy doesn't know Im the OP.

Reading comprehension failure much? "AS THE OP" replied to your quote. 2 instances out of 2. Take your pick.

 

[The Gorby Congressmanz]

Wtf? Some of the Dreamcast library (many of them also available on PS1 or mostly PS2 and similar):

Marvel vs Capcom 2
Street Fighter III W Impact & 3rd Strike
Capcom vs SNK 1, Pro and 2
Darkstalkers 3
Jojo's Bizarre Adventure
Pocket Fighters
Power Stone 1 & 2
Soul Calibur 2
Dead or Alive 2
Virtua Fighter 3
Guilty Gear X
Fatal Fury Mark of the Wolves
The Last Blade 2
KOF 98, 99, 2000

And none of those were major sellers which was the point of this thread. If it wasn't for MK and Tekken it would have been the time the fighting game genre was the most niche in history with next to zero expansion.

A good example is Street Fighter, was basically non-existent since 1995 and SF EX not creating the 3D excitement other games did, and releasing Two Street fighter III's in the same year (and it wasn't just an iteration it was basically a new game retconning the first one out of existence iirc) in the arcades already gave you a clue as to that. After SFEx3 I don't think there was a new major title at all until SFIV.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Needs more Bloody Roar. Or Guilty Gear.

I also advocate Smash Bros as a fighting game since you fight shit.

OP looks like a major Mortal Kombat fan considering that's their whole post. Which is a shame since MK gameplay mechanics are stiff and doesn't feel good. Not to mention main appeal of MK is it's 101 ways to murder someone with lots of ketchup spilling out everywhere.

 

[The Gorby Congressmanz]

OP looks like a major Mortal Kombat fan considering that's their whole post.

Which you clearly didn't read since this is a sales thread. Not a subjective quality thread.

 

[yurinka]

And none of those were major sellers which was the point of this thread. If it wasn't for MK and Tekken it would have been the time the fighting game genre was the most niche in history with next to zero expansion.

A good example is Street Fighter, was basically non-existent since 1995 and SF EX not creating the 3D excitement other games did, and releasing Two Street fighter III's in the same year (and it wasn't just an iteration it was basically a new game retconning the first one out of existence iirc) in the arcades already gave you a clue as to that. After SFEx3 I don't think there was a new major title at all until SFIV.

Could you please share any reliable source to back your statements about these MK games being major sellers?

I'd assume Tekken always had good sales, but I doubt the crappy MK games released after MK3 and before MK 2011 were big sellers, considering the space between their 1vs1 releases, period where they also tried to bring MK to other genres, and period where the FGC tournaments were about (even if old) mostly Capcom games.

As far as I know out of all these MK games only MK Dead Aliance had great sales (over 3.5M) and the other ones including Deception didn't reach 2M (I don't know the sales of all of them). But this data may not be of all their complete life cycle.

 

[Diddy X]

For me it was all about Dragon Ball z budokai tenkaichi

 

[Phoenix RISING]

I feel secondhand embarrassment from how everyone is dunking on the OP for having such a wrong opinion.

 

[The Gorby Congressmanz]

I feel secondhand embarrassment from how everyone is dunking on the OP for having such a wrong opinion.

Sales aren't opinions, but you would know that if you had good reading comprehension and/or read the OP. The amount of quality damage control reaction posts in a sales thread continues to amaze me.

Could you please share any reliable source to back your statements about these MK games being major sellers?

I'd assume Tekken always had good sales, but I doubt the crappy MK games released after MK3 and before MK 2011 were big sellers,

Considering you could easily do simple research instead of stating what you believe, finding out multiple sources for sales numbers which the main source is the studio that made the games themselves and at times the co-creator of the franchise, yeah they did.

3.5 Million for Deadly Alliance
almost 3 million for Deception, 1.9 million in a very short time frame after launch and was the fastest selling MK game (at the time)
over 1 million for Armageddon to as high as 2 million.

Tekken is the only closest competitor (and ended up doing better overall once Tekken 5 came out, granted the 360 was out by the time it hit 4 million iirc) no one else came close. Without those two Ips we would be looking at a confined genre for years.

I'd assume Tekken always had good sales, but I doubt the crappy MK games released after MK3 and before MK 2011 were big sellers,

Mortal Kombat Trilogy sold:

1,450,096 PSX Mortal Kombat Trilogy (Midway)
611,161 N64 Mortal Kombat Trilogy (Midway)

That's 2.06 million. And that's just in the US, not including other place it sold.

As for Mortal Kombat 4 there's talk it did at least over 1 million (did over 600k for PS1 but I haven't seen DC or N64 figures) but even if it did or didn't yes it was a decline in console sales for a major first 3D title, and while profitable only did modest in the arcades I hear.

But that was the point of Deadly Alliance, to refresh and replenish the franchise, and it did that. Third best selling MK game until MK9. MK Deception was not far behind. Armageddon was a drop but still did well and MK Vs. DC sold 2.5 million or somewhere around there iirc and that used a refined but still very similar engine to the 3 3D xbox/ps2 games.

Shaolin Monks sold over 1 million, and while not a fighting game it does show the brand strength at the time.


When guys like you wonder about MK selling before MK9 where everyone revises history between MK3 and MK9, in terms of series performance (NOT QUALITY) I ask ok compared to what?

Since MK2's console release the only traditional fighter that has competed with MK on average for sales is Tekken.

Even now with MKX selling over 11 million (long ago it's likely higher) or MK11 at 8 million (which was also a bit ago and likely higher by now) Tekken is at 7 million sales with Tekken 7(lol punny) it's still the only other major selling traditional fighting game franchise.

I will say though after slow sales and being stuck in the 2 million range forever SFV did make a bit of a turnaround especially with the updates and cheap deals. I believe SFV is at 5.2 million now, but it doesn't have much more room to run from what I'm seeing. If they add a budget to SF6 and make sure it's launch isn't broken and complete with content and treat it like RE I can see SF refreshing itself.

 

[kiunchbb]

Capcom Vs SNK 2 online with xbox saved fighting game during that era with the death of arcade in US.

 

[Bloobs]

LOL. MK9 pulled me back in the MK universe but Tekken and SC has always been where its at.

 

[yurinka]

Sales aren't opinions, but you would know that if you had good reading comprehension and/or read the OP. The amount of quality damage control reaction posts in a sales thread continues to amaze me.


Considering you could easily do simple research instead of stating what you believe, finding out multiple sources for sales numbers which the main source is the studio that made the games themselves and at times the co-creator of the franchise, yeah they did.

3.5 Million for Deadly Alliance
almost 3 million for Deception, 1.9 million in a very short time frame after launch and was the fastest selling MK game (at the time)
over 1 million for Armageddon to as high as 2 million.

Tekken is the only closest competitor (and ended up doing better overall once Tekken 5 came out, granted the 360 was out by the time it hit 4 million iirc) no one else came close. Without those two Ips we would be looking at a confined genre for years.



Mortal Kombat Trilogy sold:

1,450,096 PSX Mortal Kombat Trilogy (Midway)
611,161 N64 Mortal Kombat Trilogy (Midway)

That's 2.06 million. And that's just in the US, not including other place it sold.

As for Mortal Kombat 4 there's talk it did at least over 1 million (did over 600k for PS1 but I haven't seen DC or N64 figures) but even if it did or didn't yes it was a decline in console sales for a major first 3D title, and while profitable only did modest in the arcades I hear.

But that was the point of Deadly Alliance, to refresh and replenish the franchise, and it did that. Third best selling MK game until MK9. MK Deception was not far behind. Armageddon was a drop but still did well and MK Vs. DC sold 2.5 million or somewhere around there iirc and that used a refined but still very similar engine to the 3 3D xbox/ps2 games.

Shaolin Monks sold over 1 million, and while not a fighting game it does show the brand strength at the time.


When guys like you wonder about MK selling before MK9 where everyone revises history between MK3 and MK9, in terms of series performance (NOT QUALITY) I ask ok compared to what?

Since MK2's console release the only traditional fighter that has competed with MK on average for sales is Tekken.

Even now with MKX selling over 11 million (long ago it's likely higher) or MK11 at 8 million (which was also a bit ago and likely higher by now) Tekken is at 7 million sales with Tekken 7(lol punny) it's still the only other major selling traditional fighting game franchise.

I will say though after slow sales and being stuck in the 2 million range forever SFV did make a bit of a turnaround especially with the updates and cheap deals. I believe SFV is at 5.2 million now, but it doesn't have much more room to run from what I'm seeing. If they add a budget to SF6 and make sure it's launch isn't broken and complete with content and treat it like RE I can see SF refreshing itself.

Ok, so you can't provide any source to back your claim that these MK games were big sellers, and that the maximum sales number we kow is the 3.5M of MK DS. I see. Btw, Tekken 5 sold over 6 million copies.

 

[The Gorby Congressmanz]

Ok, so you can't provide any source to back your claim that these MK games were big sellers, and that the maximum sales number we kow is the 3.5M of MK DS. I see. Btw, Tekken 5 sold over 6 million copies.

Man not only will you not do research (yet you mention the 3.5 million which is from the same source that gives the other two, which means you didn't check that either, and ignored the trilogy npd numbers) but you ignored Tekjen 5 being in the OP twice.

You're a wreck, everyone with a brain knows that the overall biggest selling traditional fighters for years on average and NOW are MK and Tekken, go educate yourself.

Even thought not traditional, Smash only just recently entered the ring itself with it's latest big seller. No tradituonal series comes close to either, especially during the ps2/xbox time your ignorant of. Outside Melee which isn't traditional.

What do you think was a big selling series other than MK and Tekken? All 3 Street Figfhter 3's? Lol ok.

Say what you want about the quality but those games sold bad or not. You're refusal to do anything doesnt change that fact (again find it odd you say you agree with the 3.5 milliin but too lazy to check the source you claim to agree with to get the other two numbers. Seems nuts to me.)

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

I wouldnt say they brought back to life fighting games in general. MK5 brought themselves back into popularity again after the slow burnout of MK3 and MK4 looking like crap as a 3D fighter. I reallllly loved MK5. Deception was more of the same and AGAIn they went and killed themselves off by putting out Armageddon. Uninspired, same game engine for 4+ years, it started to look dated. Then MK9 put them back on the map ever since.

As far as Tekken goes, I would say only Tekken 4 felt...meh...not memorable at all and it had huge shoes to fill after T3. But then T5 came out and all was good again ever since. Not going to argue which game is a better fighter, HOWEVER the Tekken team just looks lazy with their future games. Its like their mentality got stuck in the arcades of late 90s. You basically got new outfits, the stages never evolved even up to T6. Remember Dead or Alive 3? That game had stages that had like 3 sections depending on where you knock the opponent, it was so diverse. Last but not least, the graphics. T7 uses Unreal 4 engine and MK11 uses U3 engine, yet MK11 looks a whole generation ahead of Tekken 7 graphics wise. Tekken lighting looks so flat especially, thats what I mean by the developers just being lazy to improve.....oh and its not because of 60fps because MK11 looks that great and is still 60fps as well.

 

[yurinka]

Man not only will you not do research (yet you mention the 3.5 million which is from the same source that gives the other two, which means you didn't check that either, and ignored the trilogy npd numbers) but you ignored Tekjen 5 being in the OP twice.

You're a wreck, everyone with a brain knows that the overall biggest selling traditional fighters for years on average and NOW are MK and Tekken, go educate yourself.

Even thought not traditional, Smash only just recently entered the ring itself with it's latest big seller. No tradituonal series comes close to either, especially during the ps2/xbox time your ignorant of. Outside Melee which isn't traditional.

What do you think was a big selling series other than MK and Tekken? All 3 Street Figfhter 3's? Lol ok.

Say what you want about the quality but those games sold bad or not. You're refusal to do anything doesnt change that fact (again find it odd you say you agree with the 3.5 milliin but too lazy to check the source you claim to agree with to get the other two numbers. Seems nuts to me.)

The current sales numbers of these series that we know as of now are:

• MK: 54M+ as of October 2020
• Tekken: 51M+ as of March 2021 (50M when Tekken 7 achieved 6M, in March it achieved 7M)
• Street Fighter: 46M+ as of December 2020

The 46M listed for SF in the Capcom IR page (they'll updated in a few days to include the last quarter) doesn't include crossovers (Marvel vs Capcom -includes X-Men vs SF or MSH vs SF- series sold 9.8M as of December 2020), spin-off subseries or games like Final Fight (sold 3.2M as of December 2020) or Cannon Spike, or the many multiple arcade compilations with other Capcom games where SF games have been included. Including all of them the SF series would be above MK and Tekken series.

I consider Smash a different game type, but if you include it (btw its series started in N64, it isn't 'recent'):

• Smash Bros: 63.7M as of December 2020

As I said before, out of the Mortal Kombat games of that period, with 'big' sales I only know the 3.5 of MKDS. Other than that the other ones are sub 2M, like the 1.9M of MK Deception (it's from the first year so it may have sold a few units more, this is why I asked for sources). I wouldn't call big sellers games that sold around 1-2M when the series sold over 50M, where many of the ones you claim didn't sell a shit must be close to 1M, and adding them to their ports/remasters/compilations would be maybe closer to 2M.

But well, I see that instead of debating like a decent human being posting facts and backing them with sources you prefer to insult, which says a lot about you. I won't reply you again, but instead I'll include you in my ignore list to avoid future disgusting posts.

 

[The Gorby Congressmanz]

As I said before, out of the Mortal Kombat games of that period, with 'big' sales I only know the 3.5 of MKDS. Other than that the other ones are sub 2M,

We actually don't have confirmed data for Armageddon so we don't know about that though it's possibly it's sub 2 milling.

However Deception sold 1.9 shortly after launch so to think it stopped selling doesn't make any sense it's clearly over 2 million.

(Marvel vs Capcom -includes X-Men vs SF or MSH vs SF- series sold 9.8M as of December 2020), spin-off subseries or games like Final Fight (sold 3.2M as of December 2020) or Cannon Spike

Yeah they don't include it because they don't count, plus that would be cheating. But that's not really relevant to the time period we are talking about in this thread either way (outside MvsC2)

. I wouldn't call big sellers games.

Firstly you had sources, you have a 3.5 million you agreed with yet didn't check the source to find the sales for the other two games, so you clearly never wanted to have an honest discussion from the jump. You were doing all that hollering over a source you never actually checked you agreed with.

Secondly what you call big sellers isn't relevant, we are talking about the fighting game genre in ps2/xbox all your goal post moving doesn't actually mean anything. We have two franchises with the biggest overall and average sales during that time we can use this information to somewhat more objectively come to the conclusion of what's big.

MK

• Deadly Alliance 3.5 million (2002) (Boon interview)
• Deception ~2+ million (2004) (Boon interview/Game press)
• Armageddon 1+ million (2006) (no final figures announced)

Tekken

• Tekken Tag Tournament 1.8 million (2000) (1.36 million NPD(GAF) 457k Japan (Game Data Library)
• Tekken 4 1.54 million (2002) (1.2 million NPD(GAF) 345K Japan(Game Data Library)
• Tekken 5 ~6 million (2005)

I mean these two are far and away from everyone else, I would think a fair definition is big is to assume the two biggest selling fighting games overall and on average sales were well, big.

Saying otherwise is frankly delusional.

I wouldn't call big sellers games that sold around 1-2M when the series sold over 50M,

MK nor Tekken were over 50 million back in the PS2/Xbox days, you're losing your minds and are completely lost. Tekken from 6 onward, and MK9, X, and 11 add nearly 20-30 million tot he series sales alone, why would you even make this strange comparison?

There many of the ones you claim didn't sell a shit must be close to 1M.

Ones I claimed? Like SFIII? Close to 1 million? You aren't even trying anymore you aren't even trying to have to have a real discussion you're dancing all over the place. A handful of games passed a million or just made it, the rest were all niche. No one is going to say any of the 500 KOF games during that time sold anything substantial outside a core of major fighting fans, same with SFIII, same with the small anime fighters and so on.

Things like SCII or DBZ Budakai where outliers within the other releases in the same series during the Xbox/PS2 times.

But of course you'll run away from this nonsensical argument, you have no clue what you're talking about, if you think these sales aren't BIG then I guess big doesn't have a definition, especially since both MK and Tekken had over 5+ million sales during that generation each.

But I guess that's the upside down reality you want to believe, that MK and Tekken 5+ million that gen is small, less than 500K is big. I don't know what definition you're using, unless you're comparing Fighting games to genres' like FPS and action adventure games like GTA or PoP which would make this even stranger because the Fighting genre never sells those numbers. (also like how you keep dodging those Trilogy sales.)

Well, maybe for two franchises NOW they do but not back then. But anyway I guess you don't actually want to make sense and left so meh.

 

[The Gorby Congressmanz]

and MK4 looking like crap as a 3D fighter.

Mm, critics liked the arcade version but you're right about the console versions, although the N64 version doesn't look to bad comparatively to the....2 or so other fighters on the system lol.

Deception was more of the same and AGAIn they went and killed themselves off by putting out Armageddon.

Deception was actually universally considered an improvement,a nd while Armageddon was criticized it still did well and then led to MK.VS.DC, which did better.

While I agree that Armageddon tainted the brand, it didn't cause the same damage launch MK3 and MK 4 did.

I wouldnt say they brought back to life fighting games in general. MK5 brought themselves back into popularity again after the slow burnout of MK3 and MK4

Fair opinion.

Last but not least, the graphics. T7 uses Unreal 4 engine and MK11 uses U3 engine, yet MK11 looks a whole generation ahead of Tekken 7 graphics wise. Tekken lighting looks so flat especially, thats what I mean by the developers just being lazy to improve.....oh and its not because of 60fps because MK11 looks that great and is still 60fps as well.

It was a low content somewhat conservatively budgeted 2015 arcade released that was released with some updates on consoles two years later. I don't think they ever intended for Tekken 7 to be more than what it was. Still managed to sell darn good though despite it's problems at launch, and the problems still present.

 

[Futaleufu]

None of the PS2 MK games have any legacy, nobody plays them anymore. OTOH I know fighting games from that era from Namco, SNK and Sega are still played to this day.

 

[The Gorby Congressmanz]

None of the PS2 MK games have any legacy, nobody plays them anymore.

People are still playing all 3 and they are big hits on Youtube. But it's legacy isn't what this thread is about, it's about it's sales during the time.