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Mother of ded Soldier shunned

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ShadowRed

Banned
So her son was good enough to die for this country but she's not good enough to be a member of their group.






WHITE PLAINS, N.Y. - Everyone agrees that Ligaya Lagman is a Gold Star mother, part of the long line of mournful women whose sons or daughters gave their lives for their country.

Her 27-year-old son, Army Staff Sgt. Anthony Lagman, was killed last year in Afghanistan when his unit came under fire during a mission to drive out remnants of Taliban and al-Qaida forces.

But the largest organization of these women, the American Gold Star Mothers Inc., has rejected Lagman, a Filipino, for membership because — though a permanent resident and a taxpayer — she is not a U.S. citizen.

“There’s nothing we can do because that’s what our organization says: You have to be an American citizen,” national President Ann Herd said Thursday. “We can’t go changing the rules every time the wind blows.”

That explanation isn’t satisfying the war veterans who sponsored Lagman’s application, some other members of the mothers’ group or several members of Congress.

“It is disheartening that any mother of a soldier, sailor, airman or Marine who has died in the line of duty would be denied membership in an organization that honors the memory of fallen service men and women,” said Rep. Nita Lowey, whose district includes Lagman’s home in Yonkers.

Rule 'smacks of xenophobia'
Rep. Eliot Engel, who represents an adjoining district, said the group should change its rules immediately.

“Whatever the excuse, American Gold Star Mothers’ decision smacks of xenophobia and is in stark contrast to what Mrs. Lagman’s son fought and died for,” Engel said.

Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton said, “We now have many noncitizens serving honorably in our armed services, and I hope that this can be satisfactorily resolved.”

A past president of the mothers’ group, Dorothy Oxendine, of Farmingdale, said, “There’s no discrimination in a national cemetery. There’s no discrimination when they get killed side by side. So how can we discriminate against a mother?”

Another past president, Ann Wolcott, of York, Pa., said, “Times have changed since this organization was started, and there are a lot of men and women serving today whose parents are not citizens. I think they deserve every honor and privilege that we have as Gold Star mothers.”

Oxendine and Wolcott said they believe that given the increasing diversity of the armed forces there have been noncitizens in the 1,200-member organization who overlooked or ignored the citizenship question on the application.

Lagman has lived in the United States for more than 20 years. She was not at home Thursday, apparently tending to her husband, who is hospitalized. But her other son, Chris Lagman, said in Thursday’s The Journal News that all she wants “is recognition as the mother of this fallen soldier.”

Lagman’s application was initiated by Ben Spadaro, a veteran from Yonkers, who said he learned about the citizenship rules of the American Gold Star Mothers while working on a national cemetery committee of the Veterans Administration. When he learned of Anthony Lagman’s death and saw Lagman was a citizen but his mother was not, he thought, “He’s buried in a military cemetery, with full honors. She should be able to join.”

“We decided to tell the absolute truth on the application,” he said. “We put down, ‘I am not an American citizen.’ It was a ploy to get them to reject her, and then we said they should change the rules.”

But the organization’s 12-member executive board voted against any change.

'We don't change the rules'
“We can’t go changing the rules every time we turn around,” said Herd, the national president. “When we have problems within our organization with people not abiding by the rules, we just get it straightened out, we don’t change the rules.”

Oxendine, the former president, said she is sure the general membership would approve a rules change if the board did.

“I can’t believe that 12 intelligent women would ever not have it in their hearts to think about another Gold Star mother,” Oxendine said. “You pay a high price to join the American Gold Star Mothers. I figure her dues were paid.”

Spadaro isn’t giving up. He had his brother, a Florida lawyer, write to the Department of Justice, noting the mothers’ organization has received federal assistance and demanding an investigation.

And on Monday, during Memorial Day observances at Veterans of Foreign Wars Post 2285 in Eastchester, Lagman will be presented with a gold necklace bearing a simple gold star.
 

Escape Goat

Member
“There’s nothing we can do because that’s what our organization says: You have to be an American citizen,” national President Ann Herd said Thursday. “We can’t go changing the rules every time the wind blows.”

:lol

Dumb bitch.
 

GLoK

Member
Wow, that's just borderline racism right there.. you'd think they'd be sympathetic to another mother who lost their child to the same cause, REGARDLESS of her citizenship.
 
How on earth can they consider this being 'everytime the wind blows'? Some poor lady's son has died, i'm sure that felt like a hell of alot more than a slight breeze to her.

I hate people sometimes, damn.
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
Wait, so someones kid dying in a war is just "evertime the wind changes". Fuck that. Even if this is the only case that a fallen soldiers mom isnt a citizen (hint: this is not the case), it deserves a rule change.
 

Shinobi

Member
“We can’t go changing the rules every time the wind blows.”

Stupid fucking dumb shit insensitive cocksucking prick.

No problem with having the son of a non-citizen go out there to fight and die in your war, but it's an issue to include the woman once he's been turned to worm meat? That's just class...and people wonder why Hinzman (among others) run from these jackals.

Fucking roaches...
 

Rorschach

Member
We don't change the rules'
“We can’t go changing the rules every time we turn around,” said Herd, the national president. “When we have problems within our organization with people not abiding by the rules, we just get it straightened out, we don’t change the rules.”

Oxendine, the former president, said she is sure the general membership would approve a rules change if the board did.

“I can’t believe that 12 intelligent women would ever not have it in their hearts to think about another Gold Star mother,” Oxendine said. “You pay a high price to join the American Gold Star Mothers. I figure her dues were paid.”
Did the former president of the organization get voted out for that bitch? If so, Americans suck at voting.
 
galeninjapan said:
Its not that hard to become an american citizen, just look at all the douchbags that are americans!

In my experience, most douchbag American citizens got their citizenship the easy way: by being born in the US.

I got my citizenship the hard way. By learning the new language, culture, and history, and rule of a country. IMO, people who went through what I did to get their citizenship usually have a better grasp of what citizenship means to them: Not a mere birthright, but something earned.

You tend to use something you've earned more carefully then something that just fell into your lap.
 
Lagman's application was initiated by Ben Spadaro, a veteran from Yonkers, who said he learned about the citizenship rules of the American Gold Star Mothers while working on a national cemetery committee of the Veterans Administration. When he learned of Anthony Lagman's death and saw Lagman was a citizen but his mother was not, he thought, "He's buried in a military cemetery, with full honors. She should be able to join."

"We decided to tell the absolute truth on the application," he said. "We put down, `I am not an American citizen.' It was a ploy to get them to reject her, and then we said they should change the rules."

So knowing the rules before hand, applying and then getting rejected, and they're being made out to be the bad guys?
 

DarienA

The black man everyone at Activision can agree on
Sokar said:
So knowing the rules before hand, applying and then getting rejected, and they're being made out to be the bad guys?

Only in regards to the comment that was made... if that's the rule fine... but the comment about changing the rules everytime the wind blows? That comment is in very poor taste.
 

capslock

Is jealous of Matlock's emoticon
DarienA said:
Only in regards to the comment that was made... if that's the rule fine... but the comment about changing the rules everytime the wind blows? That comment is in very poor taste.


You have to wonder though, is the woman even going to be comfortable being a member there provided she eventually gets in?
 
capslock said:
You have to wonder though, is the woman even going to be comfortable being a member there provided she eventually gets in?


Here is a little something that I'd like to add on to this debate. about 95% of the support jobs done in Iraq the cooking, the cleaning, the washing and all that junk is done by TCNs (Third Country Nationals).

This group is fooling themselves if they think that for a second in todays war that most of the war work is done by Americans. In fact most of the work that needs to be done in this war is done by people from India, Sri Lanka, the Phillepeans and several other South Asia nations that I could rattle off.


Quite striking if the American people actually knew or cared about what makes the war work. If it wasn't for the TCNs you best your sweet black alabama ass that we would have a draft TCNs are the only thing preventing that from happening.
 
It is amazing how cold hearting people can be. WTF? If you did for your country let alone "have to" be in a war justified on fallacies, those living after your departure should recieve something for your service.
 
DarienA said:
Only in regards to the comment that was made... if that's the rule fine... but the comment about changing the rules everytime the wind blows? That comment is in very poor taste.

Considering the article is nothing more then a sensationalized piece. They try to bring race into it when it's not even a factor. The sponsor applied anyway knowing full well she'll be rejected based on the rules. By his own admission the whole thing was a ploy anyway. The comments aren't even the problem. It's a lose-lose situation for them. No matter what they say, they'll look like cold hearted bastards to the general public.
 
Could someone run this by me again, America allows non-US citizens to join its army ?
Is there that big a shortfall in the nuber of home recruits or are there that many wars to fight ?
 

Hero

Member
Some of the comments made about 'the wind changing' and related quotes are messed up, but really, if they knew beforehand that you had to be a US citizen then I don't see what's the problem.
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
Hero said:
Some of the comments made about 'the wind changing' and related quotes are messed up, but really, if they knew beforehand that you had to be a US citizen then I don't see what's the problem.

the problem is, the rule is BS. They applied knowing they wouldnt get in to bring attention to the BS rule.

Edit: You have to be a U.S. citizen to be in the armed forces. The soldier in question *was* a citizen, his mother was not.
 
Fatghost28 said:
So why can't this woman become a citizen?

Cuz it makes too much sense?

They bring up the the fact she pays taxes. What does that have to do with anything? Is it because AGSM gets a little funding from the government? Does paying taxes also give permanent residents the right to vote too?

colinisation said:
Could someone run this by me again, America allows non-US citizens to join its army ?
Is there that big a shortfall in the nuber of home recruits or are there that many wars to fight ?

IIRC.. Non-citizens greencard (Permanent Residents) can join the armed services but can't re-enlist after they finish up their first term. In the case of this guy, he's a citizen, his mother is not.
 

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
Hero said:
Some of the comments made about 'the wind changing' and related quotes are messed up, but really, if they knew beforehand that you had to be a US citizen then I don't see what's the problem.
The problem is that it's remarkably silly for such an organization to descriminate based on the mothers' nationalities, especially when/if the organization receives any federal funding.

From the organization's site:
Grace, realizing that self-contained grief is self-destructive, devoted her time and efforts to not only working in the hospital but extending the hand of friendship to other mothers whose sons had lost their lives in military service.

She organized a group consisting solely of these special mothers, with the purpose of not only comforting each other, but giving loving care to hospitalized veterans confined in government hospitals far from home.
---
The success of our organization continues because of the bond of mutual love, sympathy, and support of the many loyal, capable, and patriotic mothers who while sharing their grief and their pride, have channeled their time, efforts and gifts to lessening the pain of others.

We stand tall and proud by honoring our children, assisting our veterans, supporting our nation, and healing with each other.

I mean really, it's fucking retarded to not accept members because they're not American citizens. The whole point is for mothers of soldiers who died serving the US military to join together in comfort and for assisting surviving veterans. How would non-citizens hurt this organization? They wouldn't.
 

Hero

Member
I'm not saying if it would hurt or not, but it seems totally senseless to apply for something when you know you're disqualified from it.
 

teiresias

Member
Hero said:
I'm not saying if it would hurt or not, but it seems totally senseless to apply for something when you know you're disqualified from it.

That's like saying gays shouldn't fight to have the right to marry becaus they're currently disqualified from it.

According to your reasoning it was also ridiculous for Rosa Parks to sit in the front of the bus because she knew she was disqualified from doing so.
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
teiresias said:
That's like saying gays shouldn't fight to have the right to marry becaus they're currently disqualified from it.

According to your reasoning it was also ridiculous for Rosa Parks to sit in the front of the bus because she knew she was disqualified from doing so.

ding ding ding. Look, she knew she would be disqualified for acceptance, but now there are congressmen looking into the situation... her applying might actually get the rules to change.
 
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