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Gamesindustry.biz - How to maintain progress against a DEI backlash

Bernardougf

Member


Blames Farage, blames Andrew Tate, blames Elon, blames DEI teams being in the crosshairs of cost cuts, but yet says nothing about the content of the games that are being created.

Here's the full transcript for anyone who wants to read instead of watch (the transcript isn't punctuated, so apologies on advance):




-------


The following section was particularly interesting:





So the question becomes, where are these statistics coming from, and is there any statistical relevance to the gaming industry?

Here's the answer:


34xWwjG.jpeg



As expected, not a single gaming business to be seen. So in summary:

images


In large part, this is why we are seeing what we have across the gaming industry in recent years. These are the kinds of disingenuous tactics (along with all the scare mongering) that the likes of SBI deploy when pitching for business, but yet the people in decision making positions didn't question it. Why?

The good news here though is that from this talk you get the sense that they feel like they are on the ropes and know the grift is coming to an end. It's just a shame that things needed to get this bad, both for gamers and the bean counters.


Probably the same statistics that say that 50% of gamers are women ...
 

IAmRei

Member
the thing is, why the corporate keep bows to them, in which they will lost more and more, as the backlash goes, there goes the money for nothing, in the end the one who wins are activist, company and gamers got nothing, industry keeps falling and falling. 2014 ago, nobody will believe who talks that industry go nuts burning their money to fail if the trend continues, someday there will be backlash once rational thought returns. but here we are, those who talks about it, turned to be right
 

Lord Panda

The Sea is Always Right


Blames Farage, blames Andrew Tate, blames Elon, blames DEI teams being in the crosshairs of cost cuts, but yet says nothing about the content of the games that are being created.

Here's the full transcript for anyone who wants to read instead of watch (the transcript isn't punctuated, so apologies on advance):




-------


The following section was particularly interesting:





So the question becomes, where are these statistics coming from, and is there any statistical relevance to the gaming industry?

Here's the answer:


34xWwjG.jpeg



As expected, not a single gaming business to be seen. So in summary:

images


In large part, this is why we are seeing what we have across the gaming industry in recent years. These are the kinds of disingenuous tactics (along with all the scare mongering) that the likes of SBI deploy when pitching for business, but yet the people in decision making positions didn't question it. Why?

The good news here though is that from this talk you get the sense that they feel like they are on the ropes and know the grift is coming to an end. It's just a shame that things needed to get this bad, both for gamers and the bean counters.


Yep, they turned off the comments for the video.

breaking bad coward GIF
 

Fess

Member
I'm not even annoyed by this stuff anymore. The way I see it, if they want to consign themselves to the unemployment line - HAVE AT IT.

Its not like they are the only game in town. When they fail, their place will be taken by those who are actually interested in serving their audience.
Problem is, when the big ones fall we’ll have an era with only lower budget titles and indies from newborn studios.

Imo it would be better if the current studios just started to listen to what the majority of the market wants and stopped catering to a market that barely exist. Just insert a progressive content on/off switch in the menu or something. And a character editor. Let people choose for themselves if they want to be preached on instead of driving them to skip games.
 
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Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
So blames everyone and everything other than themselves again, what a surprise, this will only stop when the people bankrolling them decide they don't want to lose money anymore and they have wasted billions on this nonsense so far, it's not even funny anymore, just pathetic.
I think a lot of money is to get people fighting with each other as much as possible. The post 2008 banking crisis gave the impression that a cohesive electorate could make some serious changes and it was time to stop that… the current system between social networks, politics, education, and entertainment seem to be tilted on the energy that friction between semi cultish religious factions (high engagement people) generates thus pushing more and more moderates (seen as low engagement people) into one of those factions; not taking a strong divisive stance is seen as taking the side of people you hate and thus worth being crushed it seems.

Bit depressing… hope to be wrong and that we can undo a lot of it, but the pendulum is now swinging the other way and not really settling in the middle quite yet I “think”.
 
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Cakeboxer

Member
They have to do all this brainstorming. All we have to do is not buy the product.
This may work with smaller games, but SP games with a budget of hundreds of millions + donzens of millions marketing will sell well either way. Dei people will claim the success of those and not the failure of smaller stuff like Unknown 9.
 

EN250

Member
Thousands of professors, teaching millions of college students, year after year, decade after decade.
Yeah, but no matter the indoctrination, reality sets in and out of those millions, not the majority would keep believing what they were taught when realizing the world just doesn't work like that 🤷‍♂️
 

Lambogenie

Member
Apparently they are actually close to it (I think its like 40%), however the majority of female gamers are mobile gamers if I recall the stats correctly. People who buy games the most are 36 year old males.
Female demo has risen most in part due to mobile, yeah. Many research surveys show this.

The funny bit is females do still like more "wholesome" games, despite the world trying to tell us to avoid male/female targeting from even children's clothes...
 

SF Kosmo

Al Jazeera Special Reporter


Blames Farage, blames Andrew Tate, blames Elon, blames DEI teams being in the crosshairs of cost cuts, but yet says nothing about the content of the games that are being created.


Because -- for the 9000th fucking time -- DEI has nothing to do with the content of video games. DEI departments have no influence on what characters go in a game, ESG money isn't awarded to people who make games with "representation." That is a made up grifter story told to manbabies to make them mad.

DEI programs are about who the company hires. They're not about what games they make. So this person is talking about what DEI actually does in real life, because she lives in the real world.

There's plenty enough controversy about real life DEI, you don't have to make up dumb shit like them forcing woke into games. That's not real.
 
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Because -- for the 9000th fucking time -- DEI has nothing to do with the content of video games. DEI departments have no influence on what characters go in a game, ESG money isn't awarded to people who make games with "representation." That is a made up grifter story told to manbabies to make them mad.


Stop right there.

Projects for cinema and videogames are approved based on a score card and you get points by infusing them with "inclusive" elements. Not only characters but also themes. Being a reporter yourself, it's disturbing that you deny something that is PUBLIC INFORMATION.

3ZjhArp.jpeg


Maybe this Naughty Dog artist is also a grifter for you.

Every big tech company has production guidelines that force DEI into the final products. You just need to check out their fucking websites.
 

PeteBull

Member
Stop right there.

Projects for cinema and videogames are approved based on a score card and you get points by infusing them with "inclusive" elements. Not only characters but also themes. Being a reporter yourself, it's disturbing that you deny something that is PUBLIC INFORMATION.

3ZjhArp.jpeg


Maybe this Naughty Dog artist is also a grifter for you.

Every big tech company has production guidelines that force DEI into the final products. You just need to check out their fucking websites.
Yups, we got official blizzard post from wow forum with this shit:
Direct quote here:
Alayna Cole, DE&I manager at Sledgehammer Games, says the tool was tested by developer teams working on Call of Duty: Vanguard, and it left a sizable impression. “We used [the Diversity Space Tool] to figure out what ‘more diversity’ looks like across all of our characters in both campaign multiplayer and Live seasons,” says Cole. “And now we’re going to use that data going forward into the next games that we’re working on.” The Overwatch 2 team at Blizzard has also had a chance to experiment with the tool, with equally enthusiastic first impressions.
 
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Kotaro

Member
What the heck is even diversity tool?!?!?

is that why Western games characters are so damn ugly?? Because they’re using that stupid diversity tool??
 

GHG

Member
Because -- for the 9000th fucking time -- DEI has nothing to do with the content of video games. DEI departments have no influence on what characters go in a game, ESG money isn't awarded to people who make games with "representation." That is a made up grifter story told to manbabies to make them mad.

DEI programs are about who the company hires. They're not about what games they make. So this person is talking about what DEI actually does in real life, because she lives in the real world.

There's plenty enough controversy about real life DEI, you don't have to make up dumb shit like them forcing woke into games. That's not real.

Joe Biden Shut Up GIF by Election 2020


It's Christmas eve and I have no time to say anything other than you're either stupid or horrendously naive.
 

SF Kosmo

Al Jazeera Special Reporter
Joe Biden Shut Up GIF by Election 2020


It's Christmas eve and I have no time to say anything other than you're either stupid or horrendously naive.
No, you're actually completely fucking wrong and have no idea how it works. I work in finance, I know how ESG money works, you're just wrong, and have absolutely no source other than goofy ass grifters like Asmongold.

Credulous idiots like you just gobble up rage bait uncritically and never stop to think "Is any of this true?"

I'm not saying there aren't people in the industry pushing for diverse representation in the games, but that isn't connected to DEI initiatives or ESG money. They're just doing it because they think it will give their games a wider audience, or because of their personal values. No one gives you money to make "woke" games (other than maybe arts grant money in some European countries).
 
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Bernardougf

Member
Apparently they are actually close to it (I think its like 40%), however the majority of female gamers are mobile gamers if I recall the stats correctly. People who buy games the most are 36 year old males.
I know that this statistics cover mostly mobile.. but the problem is everytime some "female" controversy comes up they try to use this statistics to say the women are 50% of their audience..
 

xrnzaaas

Member
Here's to more 'incel victories' in 2025. Thankfully more people are noticing what's happening and refusing to spend money on what's being offered to them.
 

Lambogenie

Member
Because -- for the 9000th fucking time -- DEI has nothing to do with the content of video games. DEI departments have no influence on what characters go in a game, ESG money isn't awarded to people who make games with "representation." That is a made up grifter story told to manbabies to make them mad.

DEI programs are about who the company hires. They're not about what games they make. So this person is talking about what DEI actually does in real life, because she lives in the real world.

There's plenty enough controversy about real life DEI, you don't have to make up dumb shit like them forcing woke into games. That's not real.
DEI departments are sometimes used as internal consultants for character specs, and to come back with any red flags or suggestions. You could argue it always happened (find the minority you're planning to make to get some feedback, that's fine). But for some, it has official process. But it isn't just for character race and genders, it would also include accessibility for even things like events. The issue is when taking that DEI team's response as a must-do. Make your own risk assessment after the fact, but don't allow DEI to dictate.
 

poodaddy

Member
The product itself is unique in that its played exclusively by males. Women buy iphones. They dont buy Silent Hill 2.
Man, someone needs to inform my wife that she shouldn't be playing games,....which is like one her favorite hobbies....bummer.

Such absolute shite. The majority of gamers are male, no doubt, but there is certainly a substantial amount of females who avidly enjoy the hobby. "Exclusively played", Jesus Christ. These bitches are annoying as fuck, sure, but this is the unfortunate fallout of these culture wars; people start spewing hyperbolic nonsense and then it just makes things worse and worse.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Man, someone needs to inform my wife that she shouldn't be playing games,....which is like one her favorite hobbies....bummer.

Such absolute shite. The majority of gamers are male, no doubt, but there is certainly a substantial amount of females who avidly enjoy the hobby. "Exclusively played", Jesus Christ. These bitches are annoying as fuck, sure, but this is the unfortunate fallout of these culture wars; people start spewing hyperbolic nonsense and then it just makes things worse and worse.
i shouldve said almost exclusively. my wife also plays games, but its candy crush, and dumb farm games on mobile. we know from the insomniac leak, that the ratio of male to female is something crazy like 95-5 male to female on playstation. numbers dont lie.

I also dont know any woman who went out and bought consoles for herself. Who went out and purchased a console game for herself. The games they play are not the games these developers are making. but thats anecdotal so ignore if you want. ask the next 10 women you meet, friends, family, colleagues. if they've ever bought a console game and you will get the same answer.
 
I am all for DEI because it just quickens the inevitable reversal when China surpasses us at everything. Nobody really cares about DEI, it's just the equivalent of playing the fiddle when Rome burns. Let's see how many people walk off a plane when they are told the pilot is a DEI hire
 

PeteBull

Member
I am talking in the wider context. China is building the longest bridges, the fastest trains etc. They can build thousands of miles of tracks and we can't even fill in pot holes because we think that the ethnicity and sexuality of our engineers is more important than competence. You are seeing it with electric cars as well. The only reason we don't have a completely dominant Chinese gaming industry is because they just haven't decided to do it yet.
 

HogIsland

Member
I am all for DEI because it just quickens the inevitable reversal when China surpasses us at everything. Nobody really cares about DEI, it's just the equivalent of playing the fiddle when Rome burns. Let's see how many people walk off a plane when they are told the pilot is a DEI hire
DEI is here to protect corporations against lawsuits and public scandal. But this is still preferable to the standard racist and sexist hiring discrimination.

The idea that this means less qualified people are getting jobs implies that every white man who gets a job is the most qualified person for that job, which is a joke.
 

Darkkahn

Member
Because -- for the 9000th fucking time -- DEI has nothing to do with the content of video games. DEI departments have no influence on what characters go in a game, ESG money isn't awarded to people who make games with "representation." That is a made up grifter story told to manbabies to make them mad.

DEI programs are about who the company hires. They're not about what games they make. So this person is talking about what DEI actually does in real life, because she lives in the real world.

There's plenty enough controversy about real life DEI, you don't have to make up dumb shit like them forcing woke into games. That's not real.
A fair number of the DEI'd studios output character designs that adhere closely to a similar aesthetic which is very obvious to us now, and clearly did not exist some years ago. So new guidelines in some capacity have been established pertaining to design choices, and I'd say those choices would not be accepted by a dev company unless the proposing party has a stake in the project.
Honestly, it takes a lot of mental gymnastics to deny the DEI influence on games in 2024-25.
 

mdkirby

Gold Member
Her closing statements are somewhat ironic.

“Advocating and encouraging people to just listen”

Where it seems like a major frustration is that gamers do not feel like they are being listened to 🤣, both in regards ideological issues but also monetisation etc, and it increasingly seems (true or not but you can feel the room on socials) that many white males are very much feeling marginalised.

Whilst these companies are preaching diversity, they only mean diversity of genitals and skin, but increasingly not diversity of thought, particularly thoughts that have a strong correlatation with males, which are considered “wrong thinking”, and whose voices most certainly are not “listened to”, and where voicing any criticism within these companies makes you a pariah that is quickly excised.

If half of America is Republican and half is democrats, then the aggregate of game studio should, in regards diversity, be pretty evenly split in ideology. However that is very much not the case.

It’s certainly sociologically interesting 🤣
 

diffusionx

Gold Member
Because -- for the 9000th fucking time -- DEI has nothing to do with the content of video games. DEI departments have no influence on what characters go in a game, ESG money isn't awarded to people who make games with "representation." That is a made up grifter story told to manbabies to make them mad.

DEI programs are about who the company hires. They're not about what games they make. So this person is talking about what DEI actually does in real life, because she lives in the real world.

There's plenty enough controversy about real life DEI, you don't have to make up dumb shit like them forcing woke into games. That's not real.
"DEI departments are about who the company hires. The fact that they hire a bunch of DEI activists who then go on to design the characters and set policies for representation has nothing to do with the DEI department, chud."

People aren't listening to this disingenuous horse shit anymore, thankfully.
 
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SF Kosmo

Al Jazeera Special Reporter
"DEI departments are about who the company hires. The fact that they hire a bunch of DEI activists who then go on to design the characters and set policies for representation has nothing to do with the DEI department, chud."

People aren't listening to this disingenuous horse shit anymore, thankfully.
So first of all, when you say hiring "DEI activists" you literally just mean minorities. DEI pushes for more proportional hiring of minorities.

Now you could try to make an argument that having minorities working at the company leads to more diverse representation in games -- and DEI advocates would probably want to agree with you and say that's a good thing.

But in reality that's not actually what's happening, because it's really a small group of people at the top that are making those sorts of creative decisions, and even with DEI programs representation is actually usually pretty small. You have seen many posts here making fun of how the teams that make these "diverse" games are still 90% white dudes. Look at the team that made Dustborn, they're a scandavian team that is almost entirely white making a game about American racial politics.

Why? Again, it's really just a mix of commercial interest (attempting to navigate the thorny American cultural landscape), or sometimes earnest belief.
 

DonkeyPunchJr

World’s Biggest Weeb
DEI is here to protect corporations against lawsuits and public scandal. But this is still preferable to the standard racist and sexist hiring discrimination.

The idea that this means less qualified people are getting jobs implies that every white man who gets a job is the most qualified person for that job, which is a joke.
WTF are you for real? Discrimination based on race, gender, or sexuality has been illegal since the 1964 civil rights act.

And yeah believe it or not, if you’re taking gender/race/sexuality into account when hiring/promoting people then by definition you’re not hiring the most qualified person.
 

HogIsland

Member
WTF are you for real? Discrimination based on race, gender, or sexuality has been illegal since the 1964 civil rights act.

And yeah believe it or not, if you’re taking gender/race/sexuality into account when hiring/promoting people then by definition you’re not hiring the most qualified person.
The most qualified person for a job is rarely the one hired for a job. Have you ever applied for a job before? It's a totally insane process.
 

SF Kosmo

Al Jazeera Special Reporter
A fair number of the DEI'd studios output character designs that adhere closely to a similar aesthetic which is very obvious to us now, and clearly did not exist some years ago.
I am not trying to gaslight you into thinking that there aren't trends like this in gaming, I am just trying to explain to you that it is a wholly separate concern from "DEI" and these two things have been conflated dishonestly by grifters who want to make it more of a conspiracy of elites, because that narrative makes better ragebait.

So new guidelines in some capacity have been established pertaining to design choices, and I'd say those choices would not be accepted by a dev company unless the proposing party has a stake in the project.
These decisions are usually made out of commercial interest, honestly. There is a belief that this will help them appeal to a broader audience, and to some extent it's also an effort to appease potential backlash for a lack of representation or insensitive representation. It's not because investors or DEI departments have pressed them, they don't give a shit about game content.

Unfortunately they're now kind of caught in this now-win situation where they have to offend one side of the culture war or the other. All of you culture warriors on both sides are basically strangling gaming, and we're seeing the effects.

Honestly, it takes a lot of mental gymnastics to deny the DEI influence on games in 2024-25.
Again, you're not wrong about increasing representation in gaming, but it isn't about DEI departments or investor money, it's a cultural phenomenon that you aren't parsing correctly.
 

SF Kosmo

Al Jazeera Special Reporter
WTF are you for real? Discrimination based on race, gender, or sexuality has been illegal since the 1964 civil rights act.
Right, exactly. Which means you can be sued for it. Every company has people within the company tasked with ensuring the company complies with laws and regulations and protects the company from legal exposure.

That is the primary reason DEI departments exist.

And yeah believe it or not, if you’re taking gender/race/sexuality into account when hiring/promoting people then by definition you’re not hiring the most qualified person.
Right, but how do you enforce that as a policy company wide across thousands of hires, and if a pattern emerges where minorities are passed over disproportionately how do you defend that?
 

DonkeyPunchJr

World’s Biggest Weeb
Right, exactly. Which means you can be sued for it. Every company has people within the company tasked with ensuring the company complies with laws and regulations and protects the company from legal exposure.

That is the primary reason DEI departments exist.
No, they have HR and legal teams to make sure they are complying with the law.

“DEI departments” didn’t even exist until like 2018. This idea was mainly sold to companies under the premise that DEI makes your employees happier and more productive and is good for PR.

Right, but how do you enforce that as a policy company wide across thousands of hires, and if a pattern emerges where minorities are passed over disproportionately how do you defend that?
Those are problems that existed way before “DEI” was even a thing. They’re problems for the HR and legal departments.
 
DEI is here to protect corporations against lawsuits and public scandal. But this is still preferable to the standard racist and sexist hiring discrimination.

The idea that this means less qualified people are getting jobs implies that every white man who gets a job is the most qualified person for that job, which is a joke.
What are you talking about. This sounds like projection. I don't care if 99% of people who get into Oxford are Asian as long as they are the ones with the highest grades. As soon as you consider race, sexuality or gender, you are by definition not going solely going on talent. The irony is that the Nazis considered the colour of your skin when looking at job applicants. They were big fans of hiring on gender, race and political ideology. This actually hurt them as some of the best German scientists left for America. The West is just repeating the same mistake which is why I welcome it.
 
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