Go and read my first reply in this thread.
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Mother who fled UK for Syria (and IS) with five children 'wants to come home'
- Thread starter Miles Quaritch
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they don't believe her which is fair because that's a really fucking stupid thing to do with 5 kids in tow. Her story reeks of such bullshit if I put my head out the window I'd be able to smell her from here.
How do we know anyone will stay that way? While I of course have my doubts, I couldn't deny a child re-entry because of their parents stupidity.
Mohonky
Member
The part where she took her kids there and stayed for 10months and only 'denounced' the Islamic state at the very end there.....
But yeh sure, she was only there to ask her Husband to come back home, totally.
You don't go to a terrorist state with 5 children to bring your husband back.
Well thats arguably up to the UK authorities to decide. not for us to jump to conclusions. I dont believe they would let someone that had the intention to become a jihadist back into the uk unless they were to use them for intelligence.
That post had to have been tongue in cheek.
SenorArdilla
Member
Ah. Is this the old "I can change him" routine that's so popular in teen movies? Separate them. Dragging your kids into a war zone to get your husband to go home is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.
Perhaps a tiny bit, but still, I couldn't leave the kids there.
Lucky for her this isn't the Scotland Yard forum so I doubt what anybody says here will carry any weight in deciding whats done to her.
More Fun To Compute
Member
Her motivation appears to be that she doesn't like being bombed more than ideological or moral. But with there currently being so many people trying to get into Europe and the UK it is a sad state of affairs overall.
Yeah and look at how many terrorist attacks we've incurred as a result.
It's pretty obvious that she didn't go to Syria to simply fetch her husband back, not with FIVE children in tow. She had every intention of joining IS. Everyone on here can see that, and so will the relevant British authorities.
Threads like these provide a clear albeit disappointing insight to the worrisomely low empathy and scary thought processes of some posters on GAF.
The children in this particular are entirely blameless and innocent, as children tend to be. It shouldn't even be a question whether they are taken back in and shame on anyone that suggests otherwise.
The mother is certainly lying about her intentions, however, I do think, given her background, cultural and religious indoctrination from an early age is too easily overlooked. The cultural background that pushes people to join ISIS is toxic, pervasive and runs deep in the psyche of its people. The mother likely never had much of a chance at life herself and her current predicament is one of few probable outcomes.
I think Crab has proposed the best way of dealing with this situation.
Everybody but ISIS wins.
Radical idealogies cannot be beaten through extermination of its followers. It simply doesn't work. The only way to beat it is by educating people, by showing them the right way.
If the mother agrees to undergo mental health evaluation and care and to advocate against ISIS, she may be of real significant use to dissuade others from joining. There is a frighteningly high number of radicals in Europe and I think a reformed radical has a better chance of saving these people from themselves than anyone else.
The children in this particular are entirely blameless and innocent, as children tend to be. It shouldn't even be a question whether they are taken back in and shame on anyone that suggests otherwise.
The mother is certainly lying about her intentions, however, I do think, given her background, cultural and religious indoctrination from an early age is too easily overlooked. The cultural background that pushes people to join ISIS is toxic, pervasive and runs deep in the psyche of its people. The mother likely never had much of a chance at life herself and her current predicament is one of few probable outcomes.
I think Crab has proposed the best way of dealing with this situation.
Everybody but ISIS wins.
Radical idealogies cannot be beaten through extermination of its followers. It simply doesn't work. The only way to beat it is by educating people, by showing them the right way.
If the mother agrees to undergo mental health evaluation and care and to advocate against ISIS, she may be of real significant use to dissuade others from joining. There is a frighteningly high number of radicals in Europe and I think a reformed radical has a better chance of saving these people from themselves than anyone else.
rokkerkory
Member
sorry nope
Mohonky
Member
Yeh why not, there are people who are genuinely trying to flee for their lives to other nations because of this shit, but instead we should take the ones who turned their back of the security and better living conditions they were priviliged to and shunned it for those idealists who believe rape, multilation and murder is God's gift to them.
Because that makes sense.
I mean maybe I'm an asshole, but when a dog tries to bite my hand when I feed it, I don't go in to offer it more.
What is this bullshit. Attacks or no, they joined a murderous organisation. Why should governments help them in the slightest.
Now what if that 'dog' had some of your own citizens in tow?
It's not about helping them, it's about sending a message of reformation.
EdwardTivrusky
Member
If she is sincere then surely the minute she recants then those thinking of going will just ignore her words and say she said it to stay in the country? Won't her views be discredited as she'd be seen as working with the government and spreading more propaganda against ISIS?
I've no idea how these situations usually turn out, i was just wondering as to her validity amongst those tending to extremism after she recants as they are the people who need to listen the most.
They've allowed themselves to become reverse radicalized by ISIS.
I think a big obstacle is ignorance on the part of those who condemn the radicalised without knowing how frighteningly effective tools for radicalisation and indoctrination can be, even through the means of social media.
But yeah, there is no excuses for posters like Biforce and Indrid and their callous indifference to the wellbeing and safety of children blameless for their parents' crimes.
MarkMclovin
Member
Reading this thread has kind of unnerved me a bit. The mother has no excuse, but the kids...
Hahah yeah right... Letting them back just shows how soft we are and no matter what you do you can return. If you think letting them back with open arms is a win against Isis, then you're having a laugh.
This woman probably didn't work either, life all paid for her by the tax payer because of her 5 kids.
Yeah that is the bigger issue at hand. I think some posters are looking at this from a 19th century 'burn the witch' point of view. Really this is one small part of a much larger radicalisation issue, how we treat it as a society is rather important.
Let them home. What we need are muslims spreading the word to others over how bad ISIS is. What we don't want to show is western society would rather be vain and callous, potentially a reason why disenchanted people seek out the radical Caliphate desiring some form of spiritual relief.
Which she isn't watching because she has been in Syria for nearly a year. It's probably much harder for western Muslims to not be tuned into ISIS coverage now, but in 2013 or even last year, I don't think it's ridiculous to say -- especially when it's true for many Muslim families in America (particularly the parents) -- that a lot of people just didn't know the extent of it or that it was even happening at all.
Outside of the fact that they're kids, which should be reason enough in itself - the counter arguments against allowing kids back into the country after being taken away by their wack job mother don't even make sense. It seems like there's more of a chance they grow up to be terrorists and take innocent lives down the road if you leave them to grow up in a fucking war zone surrounded by propaganda and indoctrination.
It wouldn't be a lie to say many thwarted terror attacks have gone unannounced by the government.
This line of thinking is very apologists. Spreading the word of how bad Isis is? It's a sad joke that allowing these terrorist back is a victory over Isis. I guess we shouldn't put them in prison for all their crimes either.
No doubt, so it's something we currently have a handle on.
Now rather than thinking of it like arms race, think of it from a more diplomatic point of view. A show of force isn't going to do much other than incite more hatred in the enemy, kind of a stupid thing to do when that enemy is practically invisible and everywhere in your own territory. Denying her AND her kids reentry is certainly going to stir interest in those british civilians teetering on the edge of radicalisation. Making an example of her as a reformed character could create the opposite effect. I'm not even looking at the situation from an empathetic point of view.
All of a sudden Muslims can't read, or don't have access to the media?
A couple of reasons for that. Most obvious being that they hope that these kids are killed by either ISIS or one of our bombs. Other being that if they do survive the gauntlet, there's a good chance that they just stick to murdering Muslims/Christians elsewhere away from them.
I know a bunch of people are going to become incredibly defensive to the above, "No, you can't be talking about ME, I just don't want to embolden all the potential, future terrorists currently residing in my country next to me", But that is your "solution" you prescribe.
Miles Quaritch
Member
I mean, we can't claim to be more tolerant or better when people are actively happy with her and her children being left to the mercy of IS. We can't just say you chose this fate, so we're not going to help you or your innocent children.
Are people really okay knowing that her daughters will be taken as child brides and raped? Sold as cattle when the 'husband' tires of them and wants a new girl? Her sons used as fodder in the IS army?
They didn't choose that fate. We should seek to save them from it. Calling people who see that side and have the humanity to try and help save them from that spineless is extremely disheartening.
Not really she made her choice and joined up willing with terrorists, sod her.
Schweinehund
Member
Came in expecting a person who wanted to join ISIS but wanted to leave as soon as they realized how dumb on an idea it is (this seems to happen quite a bit). Now I feel bad after reading the story and hope they get back into the UK.
Hoya Destroyer
Member
I wouldnt take the mother back. I think once someone from a Western country outs themselves as an IS supporter/terrorist sympathizer, that Western countrys government should do everything it can to keep them from returning to civilization, to protect their own citizens there.
The kids are a gray area. They are young enough to have a good shot at not growing into terrorist psychos, but there is still a future danger there, IMO.
The kids are a gray area. They are young enough to have a good shot at not growing into terrorist psychos, but there is still a future danger there, IMO.
having too many facets can be dangerous on here.
Your first post is all assumption and speculation.
It's not like this lady participated in any violence. ISIS has civilians, too.
The ones that cook and clean for them after a hard days killing and beheading
There are a lot of people saying that the mother needs mental treatment.
Is it religion that's the mental disease, the desire to commit/support violence, or the combination of the two?
If it's the first, welp.
If it's the second, then all incarceration of violent criminals outside of psychiatric institutions is immoral and inhumane.
If it's neither, then I don't see how putting the two together is significant.
Is it religion that's the mental disease, the desire to commit/support violence, or the combination of the two?
If it's the first, welp.
If it's the second, then all incarceration of violent criminals outside of psychiatric institutions is immoral and inhumane.
If it's neither, then I don't see how putting the two together is significant.
Foutrologue
Banned
Nope. It was a one way trip.
Sirpopopop
Member
I don't believe her story, but if she is sincere about changing her mind, she is a very useful anti-ISIS propaganda tool.
NekoFever
Member
If she's still a Somali citizen her British citizenship can be withdrawn. But not otherwise.
Nope. Been ruled unconstitutional twice.
Trop v. Dulles
Afroyim v. Rusk
But she isn't doing that, she's fled. Maybe she went in ignorant or her husband deceived her or coerced her but she's risked her life to flee ISIS. That's good and that matters.
If you want other ISIS civilians to abandon their t, and surely you do, we should give me them a reason, some hope worth risking their life for.
Baki
Member
It's irrational.. Not too dissimilar to racist sentiment.
bigmit3737
Member
I honestly think she only went because her husband was there and maybe she felt lost without her husband. Some women in these Arabic countries rely a lot on their husbands and aren't very independent .
If she really believed in the ISIS way , then i don't think she would want to come back.
Her husband dying mean she has no reason to be there anymore. She has 5 kids with the guy so the husband was an irreplaceable person in her eyes.
This is just the impressions I got from reading the passage and seeing that pic .
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