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Ms. Marvel I OT I How does it feel? Cosmic!
- Thread starter DeafTourette
- Start date
- |OT| Opinion
sol_bad
Member
Believe it or not but Ms Marvel was affected by COVID, one of the showrunners or writers mentioned that a lot was cut or truncated. I know Love and Thunder was affected as well.
I personally have loved all of phase 4 (Hawkeye is debatable) but COVID might be the reason the MCU quality is down for some people.
I know not all productions are the same and some things turned out really really well like Maverick and No Way Home. But some shows/movies had to change/adjust their scripts and shooting locations during COVID.
March Climber
Member
I know and understand, I just don't want to use Covid as a catch-all excuse for when a show ends up bad, but then covid is conveniently ignored when a show ends up great, when it honestly just comes down to poor creativity and poor writing. If anything covid just revealed who the really good and adaptable writers and directors are in the tv and movie industry.
These have been my thoughts so far regarding post-Covid Marvel:
Great movies/shows(shows with a strong start that stuck the landing well enough):
Wandavision
Loki
What If
Shang Chi
Spiderman NWH
Dr. Strange MoM
Hawkeye
Moon Knight
(regardless of how people felt about Hawkeye and Moon Knight their quality, writing, and purpose remained consistently at a good level).
Okay movies/shows(started with a bang ended with a whimper):
Black Widow
Falcon & WS
Ms Marvel
(Falcon and Winter Soldier comes really close to being a tier higher, needing a little tighter pacing and better writing for Karli)
Bad/Filler content used entirely to springboard the next big thing:
Eternals
(This film, it's actors, and it's concepts all felt wasted)
Edit: Going from this the ratio is positive. It flips to negative if I add Star Wars but that wouldn't be fair.
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ResilientBanana
Member
I didn’t hate on it, it just wasn’t as good as most other marvel movies and shows.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Overall I think Phase 4 has been great, comics lend themselves really well to Episodic TV content with movies in between. It is great to see the main movies actors are not “afraid” or too precious to do TV as the format has been working very well for me.
Out of all of them maybe Loki had such a high high potential that in some parts it underwhelmed me a bit, but the bar for it was sky high… still thoroughly enjoyed it.
I have to say I really liked Ms. Marvel, fun and well paced, it definitely felt fresh and made me like the character quite a bit. Looking forward to The Marvels and the Young Avengers, very talented and relatable/fun cast
. Including the Sheik yah .
sol_bad
Member
Overall I think Phase 4 has been great, comics lend themselves really well to Episodic TV content with movies in between. It is great to see the main movies actors are not “afraid” or too precious to do TV as the format has been working very well for me.
Out of all of them maybe Loki had such a high high potential that in some parts it underwhelmed me a bit, but the bar for it was sky high… still thoroughly enjoyed it.
I have to say I really liked Ms. Marvel, fun and well paced, it definitely felt fresh and made me like the character quite a bit. Looking forward to The Marvels and the Young Avengers, very talented and relatable/fun cast
Funnily enough, right now I can't wait to see Kate Bishop and Kamala Kahn interact. Both have bubbly personalities with idols they look up to.
Doom85
Member
And I want to see Spider-man interact with them as well, as where the last movie left him he could use all the emotional support he can get.
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
Me trying to figure out that ending
Cyberpunkd
Member
Watched one episode, incredible cringe pondering to introverted chubby girls picked on at school, of course they are the ones getting superpowers.
Wrong, it’s the main girl cheerleader blowing your crush in the bathroom because you are too damn lazy to get off your ass and put in the effort to be popular.
Also, hilarious how everybody thinks it’s ok to stereotype immigrant family (are they Pakistanis?) since we are in Disney territory.
Wrong, it’s the main girl cheerleader blowing your crush in the bathroom because you are too damn lazy to get off your ass and put in the effort to be popular.
Also, hilarious how everybody thinks it’s ok to stereotype immigrant family (are they Pakistanis?) since we are in Disney territory.
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sol_bad
Member
What do you mean by stereotype?
Cyberpunkd
Member
Strict? Check.
Traditional? Check.
Kids in love with American culture? Check.
It’s lazy writing with no nuance.
Second part is general point towards comic books, with Batman being the only one I can tolerate:
Batman is self made man, he didn’t get superpowers so he needs to be smart and resourceful. Every other superhero is a trope of the ‘chosen one’. If you are a impressionate teenager that loves Superman - congrats, because you are never going to be like him.
Doom85
Member
Also, guess what, no one is ever going to be Batman either because if you think you’re going to be THE world’s greatest detective, an extremely skilled martial artist, a solid businessman, a thorough understanding of most sciences, etc. as early as your late 20’s, you’re kidding yourself. Batman is NOT a reasonable example of even a talented individual and is honestly at least borderline Mary Sue level. Doesn’t mean he isn‘t a thoroughly enjoyable character (something people forget, Sues aren’t necessarily bad characters, it depends) but realistic? Nah. Also, he has resources (wealth) because it was literally handed to him as a child.
Also, tons of people can be Superman. As in being selfless, kind, protective, etc. You know, the things that ACTUALLY define him. When someone defines Superman only by his powers, they miss the point and ironically come off as Lex Luthor. As in someone who only sees Supes for his “god powers” and either intentionally or unintentionally ignores the integrity that makes Superman, well, Superman. And rather than strive to be more like Supes where it matters, he instead falls back into feelings of bitterness and envy that ironically make him ignore the impressive intelligence he already has.
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ManaByte
Member
You really know no one from Eastern India or Pakistan, do you.
Cyberpunkd
Member
What are you trying to say - that example of Miss Marvel is accurate or not?
Accurate - perpetuating stereotypes without showing life in an immigrant family can be different
Not accurate - basically lying and pondering to stereotypes
Seen Blackish? That TV series had a good premise that actually subverted the tropes of black family.
ManaByte
Member
You avoided my question.
I have family from East India (not far from Pakistan) and friends from other parts of India and Ms. Marvel is accurate and in no way a stereotype.
strange headache
Banned
Superman and Batman are cultural icons, Marvel forcefully trying to make this happen with Ms. Marvel and Captain Marvel is just desperate. This trope laden attempt at appealing to focus groups will be done and forgotten in a couple of weeks as it provides nothing of substance.
It is your bog standard "introvert teenager having a hard time fitting in gaining self-esteem and solving her personal issues through her newfound super-powers" schlock. Only this time it is coated in a pseudo socio-cultural veneer that skillfully sidesteps any real issues as not to provoke any real discussions or to insult any religious feelings.
It is by all intents and purposes absolutely vapid entertainment designed to please the braindead consumer-fanboys that are hooked on the equally stale Marvel formula. If this is the future of Marvel, it is no wonder their cinematic universe and their comics are going down the drain.
It is your bog standard "introvert teenager having a hard time fitting in gaining self-esteem and solving her personal issues through her newfound super-powers" schlock. Only this time it is coated in a pseudo socio-cultural veneer that skillfully sidesteps any real issues as not to provoke any real discussions or to insult any religious feelings.
It is by all intents and purposes absolutely vapid entertainment designed to please the braindead consumer-fanboys that are hooked on the equally stale Marvel formula. If this is the future of Marvel, it is no wonder their cinematic universe and their comics are going down the drain.
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NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
I agree there. I was born and raised in America. I'm South Indian and this show was very accurate in the way it portrayed Desi Culture.
I love the show despite me not liking the first episode. I thought episode 4 and 5 were the weakest. It was nice to see my culture but in regards to Story I felt it could have been edited down. As for the villains, thought the Clandestines were weak boring villains.
Also this show, Loki and Moonknight really stuck to their landing in their final episode.
What fanboys? Are you that angry that a brown person is in a starring role in a show and it's not a negative portrayal?
I'm generally curious about this
Personally I'm fine with negative portrayals of my culture since its called freedom of speech.
If I was a fanboy I would love all of Phase 4 but guess what I HATE FATWS, Black Widow and Spider-Man No Way Home. I think Phase 4 has been mostly disappointing.
You talk about how Superman and Batman are cultural icons but DC Comics have been facing the same issues as Marvel Comics. As in they been losing money. The Batman only did 800 million and that disappoints me since that's an excellent movie. But I also noticed the movie is divisive.
As for me I HATE far left leaning shows
The show is not far left leaning, which was a surprise. I for one am a happy customer
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March Climber
Member
I've seen this way of speaking a lot in debates. Your points come so close to being fully right, because they contain a few good and correct details about what Disney/Marvel does wrong. However, you sprinkle those correct details within reaching arguments and strong personal feelings, so much so that it ruins a great point that you were trying to make that others here could have agreed with.
Edit: The funny thing is(and I want to clarify), this post's intent wasn't to make fun of yours even though the reactions are pointing towards that. I genuinely think you could make greater points(the same way I probably could in some of my posts) but it takes someone to point out that glaring flaw because I actually like seeing good opposing views, and you seem like you're someone with a lot to say.
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sol_bad
Member
And how should a Pakistani family act on an American TV show?
Cyberpunkd
Member
Kinda in the same vein as Blackish - perfectly integrated, not making a big deal about their identity, just making it a part of who they are. Letting their kids enjoy what they want, etc.
The whole setting is just incredibly cliche, and especially given that if I understand correctly Kamala is a Muslim they could have handled all this differently. As
strange headache
mentioned:It is your bog standard "introvert teenager having a hard time fitting in gaining self-esteem and solving her personal issues through her newfound super-powers"
Classicrockfan
Banned
Kinda in the same vein as Blackish - perfectly integrated, not making a big deal about their identity, just making it a part of who they are. Letting their kids enjoy what they want, etc.
The whole setting is just incredibly cliche, and especially given that if I understand correctly Kamala is a Muslim they could have handled all this differently. As
It is your bog standard "introvert teenager having a hard time fitting in gaining self-esteem and solving her personal issues through her newfound super-powers"
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
COVID and Bob Chapek. He took a lot of the creatives out that worked with Feige and put in money guys. Feige isn't as much in charge of the creative as he used to be.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
I'm guessing you only watched PART of episode 1? Because you'd have seen how permissable her parents were past the AvengerCon stuff... Plus she's a girl in a metropolitan city... And a recognizable ethnic one to boot... It isn't bad that they want her safe.
And her parents, at least her mom, had much more nuance than you think. Her dad is awesome and her brother is a sweetheart.
You really should judge things you've actually seen... Judging by this comment, you got the rest of your opinion from YouTube.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Kinda in the same vein as Blackish - perfectly integrated, not making a big deal about their identity, just making it a part of who they are. Letting their kids enjoy what they want, etc.
The whole setting is just incredibly cliche, and especially given that if I understand correctly Kamala is a Muslim they could have handled all this differently. As
It is your bog standard "introvert teenager having a hard time fitting in gaining self-esteem and solving her personal issues through her newfound super-powers"
So... You want them to NOT acknowledge that the parents are immigrants and to just say "I'm an American! Murica!" Every chance they get? Carry guns everywhere, smoking and whatnot?
I would never force or make anyone excise anything about their culture to "fit in" anywhere. If you moved to Lithuania, would you lose all your American culture? No more hamburgers? No apple pie? No watching baseball? Etc... Just so you can "fit in"? You sound very closed minded and afraid of anything different.
Also, Kamala isn't introverted...at least not in the way YOU seem to imply. Most people are ambiverts which is what Kamala is... And what's wrong with being introverted? Shoot, MCU Peter is an introvert!
Also, Kamala has friends...
sol_bad
Member
Kinda in the same vein as Blackish - perfectly integrated, not making a big deal about their identity, just making it a part of who they are. Letting their kids enjoy what they want, etc.
The whole setting is just incredibly cliche, and especially given that if I understand correctly Kamala is a Muslim they could have handled all this differently. As
It is your bog standard "introvert teenager having a hard time fitting in gaining self-esteem and solving her personal issues through her newfound super-powers"
Perfectly integrated? You mean make an immigrant family as American as possible and completely disregard their heritage and where they came from? Serious question, have you ever been to an immigrants house in real life? I haven't seen Blackish so I can say I understand what you mean, is that show about an immigrant black family?
If you actually watch Ms. Marvel, you would know that the show does make their religion/background a part of who they are but doesn't dwell or try to preach to the audience. Even when they travel so Pakistan it still doesn't try and do any preaching, it introduces you to various things about their culture of course, it would be weird if it didn't.
As for "solving personal issues through her newfound super-powers", that's a very generic sentence and need more context.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I guess as far away as this other show as possible
Citizen Khan (seen him live at the O2 in London as well, Adil Ray, who is a British Pakistani, was doing a Citizen Khan standup tour) for those who do not know him.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
They're not immigrants, the black family (Black-ish) ... But he obviously hasn't seen the episodes where they DO talk about being black, racism, "the talk", etc... Most black people ARE integrated into American society ... I mean how can we not be? We were BORN here!
And Kamala's parents are very much acclimated to American living. Kamala is obviously an American born Pakistani American.
I love learning new things ... This show taught me about the Partition and some words in Urdu ... I even met a BEAUTIFUL woman named Noor and asked her if her name meant "light"... And she said yes... And I mean she is STUNNINGLY BEAUTIFUL! But anyway... Sorry ... Got distracted by the memory... LoL
But yeah... I don't get what he's on about ...
BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
It's delicious how that poster doesn't realize how much they project, and how they simply parrot various ego-melting YouTube personalities. It's as if their every post was recited via teleprompter. Always attacking others, never attempting to actually articulate an original thought.
Just ignore them. NeoGAF becomes so much better when you ignore the incels and the people with anime avatars and Latin in their sigs.
I disagree. The show started out slow, but I loved it by the end of the series.
strange headache
Banned
Yeah, talking about projecting...
F*ck me, that's the saddest, saltiest comment I've read in a while... all because somebody dared criticize a sh*tty formulaic YA superhero series.
Yes exactly, I'm annoyed about "the brown people"...
This is about the level of intelligence this show is aimed at, people who can barely rub two braincells together.
...and here comes the Marvel shill brigade propping up their new champion while desperately clinging to the few remaining forum members who still defend this crap.
That somebody gave that low effort retort gold, only emphasizes the sweetly seething pettiness silently boiling behind the façade.
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mansoor1980
Gold Member
watched all six episodes in one go
-great chemistry between the two leads(kamala/bruno)
-accurate representation of desi culture
-plenty of familiar actors
-i have no idea who the mutants are
-over all im impressed by marvel AGAIN , clearly looks like they give a shit about their audience(unlike DC)
-i liked the fact that one character on show complained the name KAMALA is not a typical desi girl name.
8/10
show is also getting review bombed everywhere , which is a shame really , this is a solid effort by marvel
-great chemistry between the two leads(kamala/bruno)
-accurate representation of desi culture
-plenty of familiar actors
-i have no idea who the mutants are
-over all im impressed by marvel AGAIN , clearly looks like they give a shit about their audience(unlike DC)
-i liked the fact that one character on show complained the name KAMALA is not a typical desi girl name.
8/10
show is also getting review bombed everywhere , which is a shame really , this is a solid effort by marvel
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ResilientBanana
Member
I mean, Spiderman didn't start far off from what you're describing.
That's certainly how opinions work.
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NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
Yeah, talking about projecting...
F*ck me, that's the saddest, saltiest comment I've read in a while... all because somebody dared criticize a sh*tty formulaic YA superhero series.
Yes exactly, I'm annoyed about "the brown people"...
This is about the level of intelligence this show is aimed at, people who can barely rub two braincells together.
...and here comes the Marvel shill brigade propping up their new champion while desperately clinging to the few remaining forum members who still defend this crap.
That somebody gave that low effort retort gold, only emphasizes the sweetly seething pettiness silently boiling behind the façade.
You want to talk about petty, you are the one who is being petty here. Man I must have really triggered you
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ManaByte
Member
That's not true. What did happen was a lot of Marvel Television (the Jeph Loeb side of the company) was integrated into Marvel Studios due to their experience with episodic shows.
Feige and the Marvel Illuminati is still in charge, and if anything the senior members of it such as Feige's two lieutenants Victoria "X-Men is an outdated name" Alonso and Louis D'Esposito have even MORE power now.
The difference between Phase 1/2 and now is back during Phase 1/2 Marvel Studios was controlled by the Creative Committee that was overseen by Ike Perlmutter and made up of comic people like Brian Michael Bendis and Joe Quesada. They worked out of the New York office and controlled what Feige could or couldn't make with an iron fist. Feige wanted to make Black Widow in Phase 1, that was killed because Ike said Black Widow toys wouldn't sell. Then he wanted to do Captain Marvel in early Phase 2, again killed. Feige put the Visual Development department to work on a version of Black Panther in 2011 (they showed this art at SDCC in 2018) and when Perlmutter squashed that, Feige went directly to Iger and threatened to quit unless Iger got Perlmutter out of the way permanently, so he did and then Feige would report directly to the Chairman (who was Iger).
After that Feige put together his version of the "Pixar Brain Trust", which is made up of him, his lieutenants, and people who have been involved on the creative side of the MCU from the beginning. That's who's still in charge.
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sol_bad
Member
Some of this seems right and some wrong. I'm reading through the double volume Marvel Studios book that was released recently. Currently reading the 2010 chapter. There has been no mention of a Black Widow or Captain Marvel film yet but a Nick Fury film was on the cards extremely early on. By 2010 they also wanted to start working on a Black Panther, Runaways and Iron Fist film. GOTG also was greenlit in 2010.
The Creative Committee with Brian M Bendis and Joe Quesada is correct though. Although, that committee didn't control everything up until 2010 at least, that might change later though.
Funniest thing I learnt was Avi Arrad leaving Marvel Studios because he disagreed with the characters they were working on.
ManaByte
Member
Well that book is wrong, in 2010 Feige was already talking to Scarlett about doing the BW movie (which Perlmutter killed).
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And then they actually filmed a stand-in for Captain Marvel in Age of Ultron. The scene is included in the Infinity Saga gift set. She was replaced with Wanda in the final shot.
Classicrockfan
Banned
Is marvel comic con show this week?
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
Yeah I think the 23rd
Classicrockfan
Banned
Sweet heard lots of news will be coming from their show,cant wait.
ManaByte
Member
It's only one hour, so they might just be bringing Black Panther. It's not another big two hour panel like in 2019. There's also D23 Expo and Disney+ day next month.
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
Hope they go all in on Fantastic Four, and Mutants. It's time, they gave it enough waiting time. I really hope they stick with X-Men. That's a iconic name
Shouldn't be changed just because it has the word Men in it
ManaByte
Member
F4 is apparently at D23 Expo.
Classicrockfan
Banned
I hope so,and I hope they bring back John Bernthal as the punisher,since Charlie cox and krysten Ritter are back.
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
That's fine
Yeah I think the Netflix shows aren't that great with the exception of Daredevil and The Punisher Season 1. But the casting for those shows have been on point except for Finn Jones. Only thing I Liked about the Iron Fist show is Thypoid Mary. Hope they keep the same actress for Thypoid Mary. I really like the realistic portrayal of her
sol_bad
Member
I thought in your last post you meant that they wanted to make a Black Widow film for phase 1, so I misunderstood that, sorry.
I haven't finished the entire chapter for 2010 yet so the idea of a Black Widow movie might come up later. The original article is from September 2010.
https://www.superherohype.com/news/107590-black-widow-solo-film-in-discussion
Iron Man 2 hasn't even released yet with where I am up to in the chapter.
As for Age of Ultron, that film is in 2015, up until early 2010 there is no mention of Captain Marvel.
I highly doubt the book is wrong as the authors spent 4+ years at Marvel Studios interviewing everyone. I'll let you know if/when Black Widow is mentioned as a stand alone film.
Hezekiah
Banned
As a big fan of phases one to three, I do find it quite breathtaking how irate some hardcore Marvel fans get at anybody who dares criticise phase four.Yeah, talking about projecting...
F*ck me, that's the saddest, saltiest comment I've read in a while... all because somebody dared criticize a sh*tty formulaic YA superhero series.
The level of vitriol reminds of Nintendo fans going crazy in 2017 at any reviewer who gave BoTW 8/10 or less.
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....
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
As a big Nintendo and Switch fan I can say that I hate BOTW.
And we get the
in every Fandom nowaday, MCU, DC, Star Wars, Nintendo, Playstation etc