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Ms. Marvel I OT I How does it feel? Cosmic!
- Thread starter DeafTourette
- Start date
- |OT| Opinion
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
She IS Muslim. But many Pakistanis speak Hindu and have garb very much like their Indian counterparts because they used to be one country.
Look up India/Pakistan Partition
It's a very good show... She is just learning about her powers and where they come from.
Pilgrimzero
Member
Fun episode.
I'm curious how they can afford to fly internationally on next day notice and/or how she convinced her parents to spend the cash. Also, uses the Kenobi method of near instant travel across long distances.
I'm curious how they can afford to fly internationally on next day notice and/or how she convinced her parents to spend the cash. Also, uses the Kenobi method of near instant travel across long distances.
Oh man, I can see the Christina Aguilera memes already....
Well, given the number of times "I didn't see anyone like me on the screen therefore I couldn't enjoy the show on its own merits" is said these days, does it surprise anyone that a narrowly targeted show like this gets that criticism? I watched the trailer and it was immediately obvious that it had nothing for me in it, so rather than complain I simply didn't watch it...at all. She-Hulk looks to be another pass for me.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Lemme ask you something, then:
Do you think I couldn't enjoy shows and movies (that almost totally white casted) growing up as a black child?
Yes, I could. Because I saw elements in the stories that resonated as true to me. Now there's more POC in entertainment at the CENTER of many of these stories... And that's good!
What can I relate to in Ms. Marvel? The family dynamics, being the baby of the family, constantly daydreaming, wanting something more, etc. There's a lot most people can relate to.
If their religion and skin color are so alien that some folks can't relate, I feel sorry for them.
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
I can really relate to this show. I'm not Muslim. India and Pakistan share the same culture since they used to be one country. So far I've been enjoying the show. Not surprised at the low viewership though.
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
Agreed. I'm Brown, not Muslim but I can relate to stories that involve whites as the main leads. I usually can't relate to these types of shows that have POC in them since they tend to push a agenda pushing narrative. I'm surprised how much I really enjoy the show. The talk about Partition is extremely accurate and yes there are woke elements in it but it's not obnoxious. Lol
DeafTourette
I'm not saying it is a GOOD thing to say, just that it is an EXTREMELY common statement to make, typically by an IDpol obsessed actor referring to some historic media and why it needed to change for them to get a job on the altered new version of said IP. I also hear it CONSTANTLY on rpg podcasts.But I agree with you. As a kid we watched shows like Good Times, Cosby Show, Family Matters, etc etc with little to no concern that they were "black shows". They were just damn good shows (most of them anyway) because they were written well, casted well, and were authentic to themselves. And there were shows like Benson or Webster touched on racial issues in ways probably far too subtle for writers today. I don't recall a lot of fanfare that Sisko was, gasp, a black guy, when DS9 came out. He was an actor that happened to be black (and they didn't ignore it in the show, nor did they obsess over it either) without much bellyaching from anyone that I recall. Shows like 21 Jump Street made a multi-racial cast NECESSARY for the show given the goal of infiltrating all the different groups in school. We have lost a lot of that episodic ensemble cast dynamic with the heavy focus on continuous narrative shows so the casting gets a lot more scrutiny with how it fits within the narrative.
If you like Ms. Marvel in some capacity than that is great. Same with nu-trek. Clearly there are SOME fans of that stuff. But it isn't what I want and these days I have the option of more than 3 channels to look for what I want elsewhere. Especially with streaming, I'm not gonna stay subscribed on the promise of a cool show every 6 months, I'm gonna dump the stream and just pop in fast to binge it and move on. When these types of genre shows alienate the core audience they gotta try really hard to develop a new audience. TBH I don't see a whole ton of fans of sci-fi and capeshit outside of the usual nerdy boys, 80%+ of which are white. I just don't see a lot of girls flocking to it, if they do it's often more for some glistening pecs and abs or the romance angle (*), not the smash-em up stuff, so its hard to really feed both groups and the attempts to do so fail both more often than not.
* sample size of 1, my wife
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
What's so funny about my post,
Hezekiah
?
Most of the fans I know, outside of this board, are black women and men... Split pretty evenly. When I go to the movies to see superhero/martial arts/action type stuff... Im almost always going with my black women friends. They're as big a fan as I am. Some of them are also comic readers.
Anecdotal but still...
And your wife is missing out ... Ms. Marvel is a coming of age story with SOME superhero stuff. This latest episode was like 5% action. The rest was family drama with a bit of comedy. Very lighthearted. Stuff that women TYPICALLY like.
Hezekiah
?
But I agree with you. As a kid we watched shows like Good Times, Cosby Show, Family Matters, etc etc with little to no concern that they were "black shows". They were just damn good shows (most of them anyway) because they were written well, casted well, and were authentic to themselves. And there were shows like Benson or Webster touched on racial issues in ways probably far too subtle for writers today. I don't recall a lot of fanfare that Sisko was, gasp, a black guy, when DS9 came out. He was an actor that happened to be black (and they didn't ignore it in the show, nor did they obsess over it either) without much bellyaching from anyone that I recall. Shows like 21 Jump Street made a multi-racial cast NECESSARY for the show given the goal of infiltrating all the different groups in school. We have lost a lot of that episodic ensemble cast dynamic with the heavy focus on continuous narrative shows so the casting gets a lot more scrutiny with how it fits within the narrative.
If you like Ms. Marvel in some capacity than that is great. Same with nu-trek. Clearly there are SOME fans of that stuff. But it isn't what I want and these days I have the option of more than 3 channels to look for what I want elsewhere. Especially with streaming, I'm not gonna stay subscribed on the promise of a cool show every 6 months, I'm gonna dump the stream and just pop in fast to binge it and move on. When these types of genre shows alienate the core audience they gotta try really hard to develop a new audience. TBH I don't see a whole ton of fans of sci-fi and capeshit outside of the usual nerdy boys, 80%+ of which are white. I just don't see a lot of girls flocking to it, if they do it's often more for some glistening pecs and abs or the romance angle (*), not the smash-em up stuff, so its hard to really feed both groups and the attempts to do so fail both more often than not.
* sample size of 1, my wife
Most of the fans I know, outside of this board, are black women and men... Split pretty evenly. When I go to the movies to see superhero/martial arts/action type stuff... Im almost always going with my black women friends. They're as big a fan as I am. Some of them are also comic readers.
Anecdotal but still...
And your wife is missing out ... Ms. Marvel is a coming of age story with SOME superhero stuff. This latest episode was like 5% action. The rest was family drama with a bit of comedy. Very lighthearted. Stuff that women TYPICALLY like.
AnotherDayAnotherDollar
Banned
I tried watching this since OWK is done. My initial impression based off the trailer was right. It's really not for me and it's absolutely terrible IMO. I couldn't even finish the first episode. It reminded me of a CW show.
March Climber
Member
What some here complain about, the actress gets it. Right after the 7:20 mark in the video she states 'It's not about being Muslim or Pakistani, it's just a part of her life' and 'Everyone else is labeled or presented as a representation of their culture being symbolic of their group, instead of just being an individual[who happens to just be in that group]. At the core of it, it's about a nerd, this girl who is obsessed with the avengers.' They don't want the character to be constantly walking around shouting from the rooftops that they are Muslim and Pakistani and be a caricature. They're just showing Kamala's life and including the real life aspects of living in that life.
This is where half of the show shines for me and I think the studio has done a great job at that specific aspect. There's so much care put into the backgrounds of most of the settings of the show, especially when you're seeing her family's house, and they don't spend time trying to explain all of it. It's just exists there much like lore in a Dark Souls game, to tell you what you need to know and if you want to pause on a shot to look at it further you can. This is why I just wanted the show to boldly just be this, because you can just see the suit interference every time a hero-centric scene/action scene comes up(especially in these recent 2 episodes). It awkwardly takes you out of this artistic and fun experience and then locks you back into that usual Marvel formula, like when you press a button to talk to a moving NPC in Skyrim and they lock into place to talk to you. It's jarring and that's what's actually bringing this show down for me. I just hope it sticks a half decent landing at the end.
Edit: Also on a side note, it's nice to see the guy who played M.K. from Into the Badlands get more high profile roles.
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March Climber
Member
The best comparison I've heard on a podcast is that it's much like a high budget early 2000s Nickelodeon or Disney channel original show, like That's So Raven, Phil of the future, Even Stevens, Lizzie McGuire, etc. I think if they had marketed it this way in trailers instead of like a kid Marvel hero show, there wouldn't be so much confusion and high expectation.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
To anyone who thinks this looks like a CW show, go watch any episode of Naomi (I can see why it was cancelled after one season) or Batwoman or Flash. This show is far more whimsical with more heart and higher production values of any of the CW shows! Even Superman and Lois! It's just a better product.
Until WBD puts everything on HBO Max and produces stuff that the CW WISHES it could be like.
Until WBD puts everything on HBO Max and produces stuff that the CW WISHES it could be like.
sol_bad
Member
I've seen some of those older Nickelodean and Disney shows and Ms. Marvel is nothing like them. Saying it is like them is misrepresenting the show. It's really a female version of Spider-Man and if John Watts made his movies as a series rather than a movie, it would have been more like this. You would have seen him spend more time with his family and friends. Regarding whether this show is "for" someone or not, I've noticed in a few places that the people who say this show isn't for them are the same people that say they don't need a hero to look like them to be relatable and complain about minority inclusion.
I really enjoyed episode 4 because all this lore is new to me, I've never read any of the ClanDestine stuff and have no idea if it's faithful to the source material or if it's changed up. Yep, just learning about all this lore satisfies me, really no need for action imo. In saying that, the action at the end was mostly pretty cool, I liked the outside stuff that seemed to be on location. They could have ramped up the intensity somehow but I'm not sure how. Most of the music is still on point too.
I didn't want the episode to end at the end, I want to know if she time travelled, if she went to the Noors dimension or if she is in some dream state.
Lastly, they mentioned that Thor would have been considered a Noor if he landed in their city. Are they implying that the Noors are another type of God? If yes, the MCU is doing a lot of referencing to Gods at the moment.
I really enjoyed episode 4 because all this lore is new to me, I've never read any of the ClanDestine stuff and have no idea if it's faithful to the source material or if it's changed up. Yep, just learning about all this lore satisfies me, really no need for action imo. In saying that, the action at the end was mostly pretty cool, I liked the outside stuff that seemed to be on location. They could have ramped up the intensity somehow but I'm not sure how. Most of the music is still on point too.
I didn't want the episode to end at the end, I want to know if she time travelled, if she went to the Noors dimension or if she is in some dream state.
Lastly, they mentioned that Thor would have been considered a Noor if he landed in their city. Are they implying that the Noors are another type of God? If yes, the MCU is doing a lot of referencing to Gods at the moment.
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DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
They're changing up the Clan Destine (an actual family clan) to just meaning clandestine...
Also at the end of your post... He said "if Thor landed in the Himalayas, they'd call him djinn, too"
Noor means light in Urdu (I think) and the dimension is called Noor. The people are called djinn but they aren't exactly djinn.
ManaByte
Member
They're the same people who incited death threats against Brie Larson for saying she didn't really want to hear an old white guy's opinion on the Wrinkle in Time movie because the movie wasn't targeting that demographic.
It's like she's being trained to lead the Avengers at some point. With the accelerating speed at which heroes are falling there better have a few lined up for the position per universe.
I like the mythology they're building with the Noor dimension. Haven't read the comic before but it's a nice twist on the multiverse and I'm guessing goes with Shang-Chi mythology?
Seems inspired by some occult stuff too like Universe B.
I like the mythology they're building with the Noor dimension. Haven't read the comic before but it's a nice twist on the multiverse and I'm guessing goes with Shang-Chi mythology?
Seems inspired by some occult stuff too like Universe B.
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
I'm Thinking she might be leading the Young Avengers
sol_bad
Member
No idea what event this was from but I saw this and I smiled seeing Ms Marvel in it. You can watch the whole 13 minute clip if you want but the interesting stuff starts happening about 7 minutes in.
Methos#1975
Member
For me all the cultural iconography and highly visible represention of Pakistani culture is what makes the show enjoyable and fresh. It sets it apart from the usual MCU show and is actually unique in a way. I absolutely hated Moon Knight and I think part of that is because while a Egyptian based show, they really didn't do anything with that aspect of it making it just another cookie cutter MCU show with a pretty lame character.
Ulysses 31
Member
sol_bad
Member
What a surprise that you didn't post his video when he was positive about the show. You really are just a troll that likes to shit up these threads.
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
It's funny, I mentioned I hated the first episode. I ended up loving the rest of the episodes. I'm hoping Episode 5 and 6 can keep up the quality that Episode 2 - 4 has
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Ep 5 was pretty good!
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
I agree. Looked hecka similar!
sol_bad
Member
It was nice to get to know Aisha and this show is still my second favourite MCU show but 6 episodes really does feel too short. I hope we start to see longer series moving forward so things don't feel crammed in.
Story spoiler
Story spoiler
For example, at just 6 episodes long, I feel like we should have spent the whole season with Bruno and Nakia to really get to know them. Then in season 2 head to Pakistan and introduce new characters or explore different characters.
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
I prefer this episode count to it being 20 episodes. That way the show has less filler. If anything I would be fine with 9 to 10 episodes. She Hulk I heard is gonna be at least 20 episodes. Which to me is too many. Hope there's no CW Arrowverse padding in that show
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sol_bad
Member
God no, I don't want anything like 20 episodes, it's a slog to watch some of the older free to air 24 episode season TV shows.
Even 13 episodes can be pushing it like the Netflix Marvel shows.
I think 8-9 episodes would be the sweeter spot for the stories the MCU shows are telling.
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
Yeah that was my main issue with the Netflix Marvel show. Those shows should have been at least 8 to 10 episodes. There's too much filler in those shows even though there's just 13 episodes
ManaByte
Member
MSN
www.msn.com
Ms. Marvel’s real origin story was too embarrassing for the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Unpacking the ways in which Marvel movies crafted Kamala’s comic book backstory — and have now rejected it
www.polygon.com
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
MSN
www.msn.com
Ms. Marvel’s real origin story was too embarrassing for the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Unpacking the ways in which Marvel movies crafted Kamala’s comic book backstory — and have now rejected it
It's Polygon. I tend to skip reading anything from that site
ManaByte
Member
It's Polygon. I tend to skip reading anything from that site
Basically Kamala was only Inhuman in the comics due to the Ike Perlmutter decree that Marvel not create any new Mutants as to not benefit Fox's movies, and instead ordered Marvel to create a whole bunch of new Inhumans in the hopes of them replacing the X-Men.
Which is why they didn't make her Inhuman in the MCU and are basically pretending the Inhumans don't exits outside of the one-off cameo in DS2.
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
I think Black Bolt popularity is whats gonna to change Marvel Studios Mind. I think Inhumans are coming. I think it's a possibility. We will see in 2 to 5 years though if I'm wrong or not
ManaByte
Member
Not with the Mutants coming. We get our first major Mutant in November.
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
I believe he was the first mutant.
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
Didn't know that
ManaByte
Member
Apocalypse was the first Mutant. But he's the first one introduced in the comics.
sol_bad
Member
He is a mutant in the comics, doesn't mean he'll be a mutant in the MCU.
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
Yeah they tend to change up things which is fine.
ManaByte
Member
Those ankle wings are totally from some lab accident he got in a Mayan temple.
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sol_bad
Member
It does and doesn't, they haven't explained how it worked in Ms. Marvel and when/if they do explain it, it might make sense in context.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Not necessarily. Endgame actually followed theoretical physics pretty well.
She actually didn't change anything when she went back... As what happened in the past was meant to happen and always happened... It's a closed loop. No changes, no branched universe.