Baemono
Member
Has a lot of this vibe I must admitYou guys have repeated this same crap for so many years that you're actually starting to believe it
Self programming in action. Fascinating to see, really.
MS still wants developers to put games on their consoles, as a developer what would be the point?
- Thread starter PJX
- Start date
Negotiator101
Member
Thankfully someone who is thinking straight, instead of the Gaf majority.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Because practically, games development on multiple consoles has a cost impact.
If the costs of developing for XSX and XSS outweigh the potential sales revenue gains from launching on said platform, it's not worth it. Better to use the resources to further optimise on the platforms where you know the majority of your audience will be playing.
Baemono
Member
Gaming history is full of 3rd parties ignoring some consoles for several reasons, but yet somehow you believe this is the only straight thinking ?
Horseganador
Member
No matter what MS wants, when sales on Xbox are so low that a port isn't even worth it, third parties will stop releasing games.
HeisenbergFX4
Member
After 5 years of the gen, I think it's safe enough to say that most developers see that it's worth it to publish their games on Xbox, unless otherwise incentivized (via exclusivity deals) not to.
So this is a worthless debate at this point.
"The past 5 years is not history" is quite a take indeed.
Topher
Identifies as young
Yep. That install base is still signficant enough to not be ignored.
Baemono
Member
What ?
ExtendEmbraceExtinguish
Member
Very sustainable if nextbox is oem as they can just advertise varied stores. Remember it's the core that leads a console launch. Msft is looking at storefronts to sell their products and that will determine how they fare nextgen ( new msft gaming store).
Killjoy-NL
Member
Unless GP doesn't grow, because it doesn't seem to be the case.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
It's not an issue of time. It's an issue of the game type being made and the relevant demographics it appeals to.
Xbox has always been the console for American dude bros. The platform doesn't have a meaningful presence in Japan and Asia nor Europe. So, any dev making a game that is similar to Halo and Gears will want to launch on Xbox; conversely a dev making a more artsy game may choose to forego the platform if the sales projections based on the sales of similar game types on Xbox don't appear to be worthwhile.
It's only a worthless debate when you use worthless arguments to try to contrive your point.
deriks
4-Time GIF/Meme God
Agreed in every word
ResilientBanana
Member
Another 30 million potential customers..
You all act like that's a small number. In comparison to the competitors, sure. but from a sales perspective, you'd be dumb not to chase money.
You all act like that's a small number. In comparison to the competitors, sure. but from a sales perspective, you'd be dumb not to chase money.
Last edited:
Rambone
Member
Half of that 30m probably traded in to Gamestop by now.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted MemberĀ® Proā¢
It's not really 30 million potential customers though. That's a really Myopic way of looking at things.
Regions matter, genre matters. It's why you'll see a lot of Japanese games outright skip the Xbox Series, because they know the primary sales will be in Japan. Same reason why a lot of RPGs skip the XBS. Simply not enough RPG fans in the userbase. Microsoft paid money to get Persona and Metaphor on Xbox, but we still haven't seen Final Fantasy, despite Square Enix desperately needing more sales. Even Switch 2 is getting FF7 remake before Xbox Series...
That 30 million number is far more useful in the west and in North America in particular, especially to western developers who are targeting that region with their games.
It's also the ease in supporting it. The same reason the Steam Deck gets support despite not having a large userbase.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted MemberĀ® Proā¢
Half of that 30m probably traded in to Gamestop by now.
We can see in the UK more readily that the splits are very much not great for Xbox. We don't get those splits in Circana data, but if they're at all similar, I wouldn't be surprised if we see more publishers forgo Xbox releases.
Bernardougf
Member
The 30 mil xbox user base its not used to buying games like they did ... we have in this very forum many examples of this ... even with old cheaper games like Crash, I remember a user saying he wanted very much to play the game so he just waited for the gamepass release and was cheering when that happened.
So I dont think all the companys look at 30 mil xbox consoles users just like they would nintendo/playstation ones...
This dosent mean they will stop making games for xbox ... specialyy if a gamepass deal is secured....but just saying "30 mil xbox console users duh".. its ignoring the huge * MS themselves created.
So I dont think all the companys look at 30 mil xbox consoles users just like they would nintendo/playstation ones...
This dosent mean they will stop making games for xbox ... specialyy if a gamepass deal is secured....but just saying "30 mil xbox console users duh".. its ignoring the huge * MS themselves created.
DryvBy
Member
No, the real question is what OP asked.
Xbox gamers don't buy games. They expect "free". The extra time to get things working on the Series S and then an X, only for it not to sale, could be better used making game on systems that have customers who buy games.
I see. So which European game developer has forgone a release on Xbox so far?
Since the number of Xbox consoles sold will only go up from here, why would any sane expectation be that ports will stop coming? How does that make sense?
There's also been no negative change in Asian games hitting the platform. In fact, it's gone up this gen compared to last gen.
If you were talking about a next gen Xbox, then absolutely. But for this gen? with no expectation that the already sold consoles will spontaneously disappear?
That's PlayStation now, for nearly a decade. Try to keep up.
rm082e
Member
It's a simple math equation that applies to any business:
If I invest _X_ resources (man hours, money, etc.) to achieve _Y_ business outcome (in this case, an Xbox version of a game), what rate of return can I expect? So how much profit do I expect to make from the Xbox version of that game?
Then I have to compare that number to what I think I could make if I invested _X_ resources on a different project. If I think I could make more money on a different project, then I skip the Xbox port or do it later.
As others have said, it seems like Microsoft realizes this question is becoming a problem and they're designing the next Xbox to run PC versions of games. If it runs the PC version which ai was already going to develop anyway, then _X_ to achieve an Xbox version is probably always going to be worth it.
If I invest _X_ resources (man hours, money, etc.) to achieve _Y_ business outcome (in this case, an Xbox version of a game), what rate of return can I expect? So how much profit do I expect to make from the Xbox version of that game?
Then I have to compare that number to what I think I could make if I invested _X_ resources on a different project. If I think I could make more money on a different project, then I skip the Xbox port or do it later.
As others have said, it seems like Microsoft realizes this question is becoming a problem and they're designing the next Xbox to run PC versions of games. If it runs the PC version which ai was already going to develop anyway, then _X_ to achieve an Xbox version is probably always going to be worth it.
ā¦because MS bought the company that makes Crash, and it was a reasonable assumption that it was going to come to GamePass. There's probably folks waiting for Astrobot to show up on PS Plus to play it.
There's no Xbox owner that wants to play Monster Hunter Wilds, the latest Resident evil game or Assassins Creed shadows and decided to wait for a Gamepass release. That's not how this works.
foamdino
Member
Making software work at all is hard. Making it work across multiple platforms (and not be an utter tyre fire) doubly difficult. There has to be a reasonable return on investment to make the effort worth while.
All devs would love their games to be running on the widest available set of machines, as obviously if it is available on xbox, then you have a chance to get a sale. However it has never been (and will never be) as "easy as clicking a button" to port a game from PS5/PC/Switch to Xbox. It simply doesn't work like that.
Even if the code, art, sound etc is 100% compatible between machines/platforms (and it won't be), then there's still the certification process and hoops to jump through. There has been enough anecdotal evidence from indies that Microsoft do not make that certification process easy.
On top of all that... Achievments/Trophies need to be sorted, network play/filters may need to be adjusted. What is allowed by one platform may require censoring from another.
There's a bunch of busy work that people hand wave away with "you recompile for a different target" <- no it's a bit more complex and MS gaslit everyone this gen about the series S being a simple recompile and that was complete crap let's not forget (different machine but same "publisher/platform" holder and it was still a massive pain)
All devs would love their games to be running on the widest available set of machines, as obviously if it is available on xbox, then you have a chance to get a sale. However it has never been (and will never be) as "easy as clicking a button" to port a game from PS5/PC/Switch to Xbox. It simply doesn't work like that.
Even if the code, art, sound etc is 100% compatible between machines/platforms (and it won't be), then there's still the certification process and hoops to jump through. There has been enough anecdotal evidence from indies that Microsoft do not make that certification process easy.
On top of all that... Achievments/Trophies need to be sorted, network play/filters may need to be adjusted. What is allowed by one platform may require censoring from another.
There's a bunch of busy work that people hand wave away with "you recompile for a different target" <- no it's a bit more complex and MS gaslit everyone this gen about the series S being a simple recompile and that was complete crap let's not forget (different machine but same "publisher/platform" holder and it was still a massive pain)
This comparison doesn't even make sense. Absurd logic.What's the point of putting a game on PlayStation or Switch when there is billion of PCs and mobile devices?
ChorizoPicozo
Member
game pass's money bag is the only incentive.
And yet the past 5 years has seen the vast majority of developers do the maths and still decide releasing on the Xbox Series consoles makes sense.
This is irrelevant discourse for this generation. I expect devs to review the benefits of porting when this generation ends.
I expect the major change we'll see soon is less around devs not porting games, but the likes of Sony slowing down their payments for exclusivity, simply because the traditional console war is pretty much over.
PaintTinJr
Member
But the million dollar questions are probably: How many are s+x series owners - to remove the redundant install base number? And then how many prefer to play on a series console - whether or not it is their only option or in a household with one of PS5/Pro/PC?
Question 1 could easily lower that number to 20m IMO, and question 2 could possibly lower it to 7-8m. If that were the case you'd need to hope at least 50% of those weren't gamepass rental hold outs and regular players that main Xbox and prefer to buy their games, so a successful game had a chance to sell to half of that number and land 2-4m actual sales for a great game
edit: not because games need to sell 2-4m on xbox, but if a COD or GTA couldn't then that might send warning signals for a lesser game's possible ROI.
Last edited:
Setsuna Mudou
Member
Attempt at a troll question, but the answer is actually going to the OP's point... one side of that equation actually buys full priced games.What's the point of putting a game on PlayStation or Switch when there is billion of PCs and mobile devices?
Also not all PCs are gaming PCs, much less anywhere near the same specs to one another.
Mobile users do not buy "real" games, it's a completely different demographic and business model for mobile gaming.
Unknown?
Member
They flop and the studio shuts down or moves on.And you know that the percentage of third-party games on GP is equivalent to 2-3% of the total number of games released annually on Xbox? What do you think happens to the remaining 97%?
(I already answered you anyway)
Fbh
Member
To sell games and make money? Eventually getting them on gamepass too and getting some extra revenue once sales have slowed down?
Most publishers have games on Xbox, they have reliable data about how much revenue their games are making on the platform. If they are still putting games on the system it's not out of charity, it's because they are still selling enough copies for it to be profitable.
Most publishers have games on Xbox, they have reliable data about how much revenue their games are making on the platform. If they are still putting games on the system it's not out of charity, it's because they are still selling enough copies for it to be profitable.
alabtrosMyster
Member
There are still some people playing on them, big publishers will go on a case by case basis for the foreseeable feature.
Smaller studios always were spotty on porting their games to xbox since the PS4 days (that rarely makes the news, but it's a fact)... so they will just do it even less, unless we have a Vita like situations where xbox becomes a place people play their indie games, which I doubt.
Smaller studios always were spotty on porting their games to xbox since the PS4 days (that rarely makes the news, but it's a fact)... so they will just do it even less, unless we have a Vita like situations where xbox becomes a place people play their indie games, which I doubt.
PaintTinJr
Member
There is also the scenario that even if it was directly less advantageous to publish on Xbox for the bigger publishers releasing on Xbox gives them more negotiating power with Steam, Epic Store, PlayStation and Switch to get better deals from the stores with userbases that buy their games more.
As you say, the decisions aren't being made out of charity.
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
Er, you do realize that these companies get paid to have their game on gamepass right? What the hell are you talking about "free"?
Tell me how it's any different if I make a game and I get 1 million in revenue from consumers buying my game, or if I get 1 million in revenue from Microsoft to put the game on their service. Either way I get 1 million in revenue.
Skifi28
Member
They have been actively trained for years not to buy games. Do some still do? Of course, but probably not nearly enough when even Microsoft decided to go third party with their own games. I've been reading way too many "no gamepass no buy" comments all these years. The training worked, except it backfired in the end.
Publishers don't run a charity service. Xbox won't get games simply because it exists. It's about roi. If the costs of Xbox development (money/time/labor) exceed the projected returns, then it's not going to happen. We already see this with many Japanese games. It will start happening with western games as Xbox software sales continue to crater. The 30 million install base is irrelevant. The amount of people buying games is what matters.
Last edited:
Baemono
Member
Is a word missing here ?
They also might want to do it for future gens too if ms somehow turns it around. Alot of old games have found new life/sales with the bc program. That's prob just free money at that point unless there's licensed content.
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
Bullshit. That's absolutely how this works. I've seen people on this very board say this. "I'll wait till gamepass"
Because the pain in the
