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Mueller Expands Probe to Trump Business Transactions

S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Mattenth said:
The issue, however, is that you have to prove criminal intent.

As an example, Exxon was fined $2 million this morning for violating Russian sanctions (while Rex was CEO). It's easy to point and say "OMG traitors," but in most cases, these are just simple oversights. Similarly, if Trump sells a condo to Russians at a massive discount and violates some sanction, he can just claim ignorance and pay the fine.

You need proof that the Trumps were aware of the law and deliberately choosing not to comply. That's a high bar.

I'm also not sure if that is "in bounds" for Mueller. If he finds that Trump corp owes $100 million in fines, does Mueller actually levy the fines? Seems way out of bounds.

Lastly, do remember that Trump's businesses are large enough to be audited annually by multiple parties belonging to both the federal government, state governments, and private companies/auditors.

If there is something criminal there, it will be hard to find and we are in for a very long investigation.

I just highly doubt that a financial crime is going to be sufficient to impeach Trump, especially if the crime occurred pre-primaries. We're talking about a President that has already admitted to sexual assault.
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Absolutely, but this is a criminal investigation where the audit won't stop at "oops, registered offshore" or "he overpaid for the condo" - so the scrutiny and legal tools available and utilized change dramatically versus either an IRS or private audit.
 
H

Heretic

Member
I'm worried Mueller will find nothing... What happens then? Do we Banghazi/Email this or take him at his word and move on?
 
S

sflufan

Banned
TheCochese said:
Yup. That's why it's smart for Democrats to keep their eyes on the issues for now.
Click to expand...

If the Democrats were smart (which -- let's face it -- isn't exactly one of the party's strong suits), they'd pretend that this is even happening and hammer away at health care, taxes, etc.
 
T

TheCochese

Banned
sflufan said:
If the Democrats were smart (which -- let's face it -- isn't exactly one of the party's strong suits), they'd pretend that this is even happening and hammer away at health care, taxes, etc.
Click to expand...

The ten thousand emails I get from them every day suggest this is happening.
 
F

FuturusX

Member
If this plays out the way it should. I wonder if Don will regret entering into politics. Running Miss Universe sure seems like a better deal right now.
 
S

SoundofSilence

Member
Damaniel said:
I think the one thing that Trump fears more than anything - even being brought up on charges related to Russian collusion - is being outed as far less wealthy than he lets on (or perhaps even broke). Trump is a person who has been defined in the public eye (at least pre-2016) as rich, and the name has been associated with wealth since the 80s, if not before. I don't think his narcissistic heart could take being exposed as - gasp! - possibly less wealthy than he says. (The fact that he made criticizing the relative level of his wealth a bigger no-no in his celebrity roast than going after his family and children also points to this).

Personally, I won't be happy until he's behind bars and his name and family's reputation has been ruined. Keep digging, Mueller!
Click to expand...

Very likely. Bloomberg discovered that he owes $300M to Deutsche Bank alone.
 
U

UglyPony

Member
Well its pretty obvious trump has had a lot of dealings with Russian oligarch. So just follow the money and hopefully he will find something on this shit stain.
 
S

Surfinn

Member
FuturusX said:
If this plays out the way it should. I wonder if Don will regret entering into politics. Running Miss Universe sure seems like a better deal right now.
Click to expand...
I think it's pretty clear Trump has regretted running for a while now. He never thought he would win and has hated the presidency pretty much ever since he started. He just loves campaigning and having everyone kiss his ass all day.
 
K

Kyzer

Banned
There is no debate about bounds, Mueller cant even go digging around anywhere without approval. Theres probably evidence and warrants involved
 
M

Mattenth

Member
Heretic said:
I'm worried Mueller will find nothing... What happens then? Do we Banghazi/Email this or take him at his word and move on?
Click to expand...

I doubt that Mueller will stop looking before the 2018 elections.

Also, not a great thread to put this in and a little off topic, but a friend sent me more Louise Mensch and I just have to call out how utterly fucking stupid this is.

Dvuiko7.png
 
R

rjinaz

Member
Heretic said:
I'm worried Mueller will find nothing... What happens then? Do we Banghazi/Email this or take him at his word and move on?
Click to expand...

That came across as concern trolling, but assuming your genuine, if there is nothing then there is nothing. Of course there will be people that will never let it go, but most Democrats will move on, especially considering without Hillary going against him, Trump is going to have a hard time next election.

But let's wait to call out people for being hypocrites until nothing is actually found.
 
S

Slaythe

Member
There's always this psychotic part of my mind that's like : "maybe Muller is working for Trump and setting himself as Justice incarnate so that when he comes out and say Trump is clean, people take his word for it".
 
S

Sephzilla

Member
Heretic said:
I'm worried Mueller will find nothing... What happens then? Do we Banghazi/Email this or take him at his word and move on?
Click to expand...

Honestly, I think they've already found stuff and are just digging to see how deep the rabbit hole goes. That being said, if Mueller truly finds nothing then the truth is there actually wasn't anything.
 
B

BlastProcessing

Member
sflufan said:
If the Democrats were smart (which -- let's face it -- isn't exactly one of the party's strong suits), they'd pretend that this is even happening and hammer away at health care, taxes, etc.
Click to expand...

Are you paying attention to the Party at all? That's what they are doing. That's what they have done in every special election and it's what party leadership has been 100‰ focused on.
 
R

rjinaz

Member
Mattenth said:
I doubt that Mueller will stop looking before the 2018 elections.

Also, not a great thread to put this in and a little off topic, but a friend sent me more Louise Mensch and I just have to call out how utterly fucking stupid this is.

Dvuiko7.png
Click to expand...

Lol what a loon. I'm going with the theory that she is actually trying to spread FUD because she's strongly on the Right.

Nobody, and I repeat nobody is dying from this. Hell, I doubt very seriously that anybody sees serious jail time. We might get a slap on the wrist here and there, and Trump's name forever an embarrassment and his reelection chances melted away as a result, but I think that's the best we can hope for. Well maybe if Democrats take the house, an actual impeachment that doesn't result from a removal of office but I have serious doubts about that as well. No reason to rile up the base I'm guessing is the conclusion many will come to.
 
N

Nafai1123

Banned
Part of Muellers investigation involves obstruction of justice. I'm not sure how he can come to the conclusion that there's "nothing there" given all the public evidence already known.
 
L

Latvian Hitman

Member
PeakPointMatrix said:
Seriously though, could Trump actually get away with firing Mueller? :(
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This question just won't go away, no matter how many times it's answered...

Yes, Trump can set a chain of actions in motion that could lead to Mueller's removal. It would require firing Sessions, then nominating a replacement, who would have to go through the normal congressional approval process before being instated and only then could Mueller be removed. You can bet your ass that whoever was nominated in this scenario would be asked repeatedly under oath about his intentions regarding Mueller and the investigation prior to congress approving him.

So, while technically possible, it wouldn't exactly be a sneak attack that Mueller never saw coming.
 
SlimySnake

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Heretic said:
I'm worried Mueller will find nothing... What happens then? Do we Banghazi/Email this or take him at his word and move on?
Click to expand...

If Mueller finds nothing then that's a good thing. there is no treason, means he wont sell our secrets to russia and we can relax and wait for the next election.
 
R

rjinaz

Member
SlimySnake said:
If Mueller finds nothing then that's a good thing. there is no treason, means he wont sell our secrets to russia and we can relax and wait for the next election.
Click to expand...

Actually, yeah I suppose you are right. I mean yes Trump is still a shitty person and a shitty president, and one of the most hypocritical people to ever live, but at least we'll know we didn't get sold out for Russian interests.
 
A

avaya

Member
There is zero doubt in my mind that Trump and associates are guilty as fuck and are certain traitors.

When Steele's credentials were revealed my confidence in the dossier was resolute. MI6 don't fuck about.

However proving this beyond a shadow of doubt in a civilian court is going to be far more problematic. These people should be facing serious jail time. All of them. They are complete traitors.
 
R

rambis

Banned
sflufan said:
Alright, let's clarify this once and for all.

In the event that Mueller is fired, in order for him to be "hired" (and that's not the right word) as an "independent counsel" by Congress, the Independent Counsel Act would have to be reinstated by Congress itself (it was allowed to lapse several years ago after the Clinton-era investigations). This means that Congress would actually have to vote to re-authorize the Act. I'll say that again: Congress would have to vote on reinstatement which means that Republicans would need to vote in favor of it.

Schiff really was incredibly stupid when he made it seem like Mueller could be "hired" just like that by Congress.
Click to expand...

This has all been incredibly obvious since he's said it. I don't know why you keep pretending that Schiff, a congressman of 12 years doesn't know how congress works.

Schiff said:
If President fired Bob Mueller, Congress would immediately re-establish independent counsel and appoint Bob Mueller. Don't waste our time
Click to expand...

Since when does congress do anything without a vote? Schiff can't even send a letter out of his own committee without Nunes/Gowdy's stamp.
 
G

Garrett 2U

Member
rambis said:
What?

It could just mean that Russian collusion/interference is an incredibly vast topic and that they want to cover all their bases. What is it with the tinfoil in this thread?
Click to expand...

I'm not suggesting they found anything.

The poster's implication is that Mueller is actively trying to find ANYTHING incriminating. AKA a witch hunt.
Whereas, it's simply an investigation.
 
V

Velocity:Design:Comfort

Banned
Mattenth said:
The issue, however, is that you have to prove criminal intent.

As an example, Exxon was fined $2 million this morning for violating Russian sanctions (while Rex was CEO). It's easy to point and say "OMG traitors," but in most cases, these are just simple oversights. Similarly, if Trump sells a condo to Russians at a massive discount and violates some sanction, he can just claim ignorance and pay the fine.

You need proof that the Trumps were aware of the law and deliberately choosing not to comply. That's a high bar.

I'm also not sure if that is "in bounds" for Mueller. If he finds that Trump corp owes $100 million in fines, does Mueller actually levy the fines? Seems way out of bounds.

Lastly, do remember that Trump's businesses are large enough to be audited annually by multiple parties belonging to both the federal government, state governments, and private companies/auditors.

If there is something criminal there, it will be hard to find and we are in for a very long investigation.

I just highly doubt that a financial crime is going to be sufficient to impeach Trump, especially if the crime occurred pre-primaries. We're talking about a President that has already admitted to sexual assault.
Click to expand...

This is completely untrue. The reason why corporate fraud or tax evasion or matters like this are often settled for relatively small amounts is because Justice/the IRS does not have, and did not have, any resources or enough political capital to do a thorough investigation or bring cases against all the financial criminals. It is absolutely asinine to assume ignorance considering their entire existence is dedicated to short term profit motive and that they know they can get away with it.
 
V

Velocity:Design:Comfort

Banned
Also, all the Mensch hate here is silly when you're in a thread about financial fraud crimes in the investigation when she is the one who was talking about the RICO case being built months ago. Just saying.
 
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