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[sphagnum]

I have zero problem with fighting Nazis from a moral point of view. But we, that is to say the radical left, need to be self critical about our actions all the time. Since the demographics in the US make it unlikely for white supremacists to gain power (although I suppose it's still possible in local areas), we may not necessarily need to use violent tactics to counter them.

Some places in Europe though? Well, European comrades will have to figure that one out but that could get very messy.

The best way to kill ignorance is shine a light on it.

I think history shows that that's unfortunately not always the case. In fact, sometimes shining a light on something moronic only attracts more morons to it like moths to a flame.

But strategy and tactics always need to be paramount considerations in dealing with white supremacists.

 

[Orayn]

Crossing my fingers for the good guys out there today. No tears for fascist boo-boos.

 

[fierrotlepou]

How can you not just laugh at nazis? Pathetic scum

Because they're breeding and feeding their children the same bullshit. Our children will have to grow up with these people running around.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

So some nazis mainly fuck up a bunch of counter-protesters and the bulk of this thread is about how anti-facists are "just as bad".

...ok.

BOTH.

SIDES.

 

[Night Angel]

Not falling for your attempt at a gotcha. It's not gonna work. Of course al Qaeda are awful and shouldn't have a platform either. But i wasn't aware of a large vocal contentment of al Qaeda members in this country.

So are you going to be the arbiter of who has a right to free speech and assembly in this country?

 

[BennyBlanco]

Ok these people can't plan large scale attacks that threaten to destabilize the entire nation but can do catastrophic damage at a local level and have done so historically around the world for decades. Assaulting other races, killing poor and homeless people and threatening entire neighborhoods. They wield weapons and are armed with hate and are organized at a local level. They're terrorists through and through especially considering they're taking one of the most vile organizations in modern history as a tentpole for their warped ideology. They are armed and trained to commit hate crimes against population groups to further grow their influence at a local level.

How people can't see that local terrorism is a thing that happens in every country baffles me. But then again, America

I understand that this could've been said about comunists in America during the red scare, so drawing hard lines is tough. But I'll draw a soft line and not allow public manifestations of hate groups and have them well registered.

Where are you getting all this from? From what I can gather theyre just some fringe political group and probably white nationalists.

http://www.tradworker.org/

That doesn't mean they're out in the streets murdering homeless people or at all comparable to Al Qaeda.

Shitty people, yes. Organized terrorist militia, no.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

So some nazis mainly fuck up a bunch of counter-protesters and the bulk of this thread is about how anti-facists are "just as bad".

...ok.

It makes you wonder, huh. It's like if you're posting consists of something that almost resembles looking like a defense for the worst of the worst, perhaps you should just step away from the keyboard.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

So are you going to be the arbiter of who has a right to free speech and assembly in this country?

i mean sure if you're offering.

The one, single, bitter benefit of watching the middle class erode is that this constant faux middle ground state so many young people see as a virtue will suddenly be irrelevant.

Pre-WW2 America is coming back, economically, and if you don't want to have multiple generations in one home working 12 hour days, six or seven days a week, you might have to actually believe in something.

but that's haaaarrrd. why cant i be the arbiter of truth and feel superior to people who actually care about something.

It makes you wonder, huh. It's like if you're posting consists of something that almost resembles looking like a defense for the worst of the worst, perhaps you should just step away from the keyboard.

something something Voltaire quote something something.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

Fuck these terrorists

 

[Phantast2k]

To sum up what I found out:

Despite what the reporter said in this video, a neo-Nazi of the Traditionalist Worker Party attacked the woman:

This is correct. I was googling to find the origin of that logo when it was right there in the article.

http://www.tradworker.org/

Matt Heimbach with the KY Traditionalist Worker Party - YouTube

New breed of Neo-Nazis.

A party which appears to be affiliated to Russia or at least feeds on Russia-coined ideas:

Everything they say reeks of Aleksandr Dugin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

From their FB:

This is a flag of Putin propped Novorossiya republic.
A fake entity they established on occupied Ukrainian territory.

Small world huh? Welcome in Putin's hybrid war, America.

More evidence of this:
Their logo on FB:

Compare this to:

A flag depicting "A Real Family" urges Russians to stick to traditional family values.
United Russia to Unveil 'Straight Flag' in Honor of Traditional Family | News | The Moscow Times

Report on Russian extremist party network in Europe: In the Kremlin’s pocket | The Economist

 

[commedieu]

Fuck these terrorists

Just because they promote genocide of minorities does not make them terrorists. They will do it peacefully without violence. And maybe a few church shootings..

Get the fuck out of here with that shit. Liberal gaf once again exaggerating everything for evilores agenda.

Edit due to being banned over sarcasm before..

/s

 

[BennyBlanco]

At the very least, they're happy to keep score (six to one! Hooray!) of how many people they sent to the hospital today.

Yeah, they're idiots for sure. They also have 260 twitter followers. You're giving them too much credit if you think people like this are any kind of real threat.

 

[Joezie]

If the Neo Nazi's initiated the aggression then we're no longer talking about freedom of expression/speech by definition. Then it's just plain assault and they should be arrested as the law dictates.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

I still find it perplexing any country that has fought the Nazis can have anyone that is pro Nazi.

We fought world war II to stop the japs from cutting in on our hegemony in the Pacific, not the Nazis. Do you really think we gave a shit about racism?

 

[Orayn]

If the Neo Nazi's initiated the aggression then we're no longer talking about freedom of expression/speech by definition. Then it's just plain assault and they should be arrested as the law dictates.

Not going to happen, every report is saying that the cops are protecting the Nazis.

 

[Telephone Man]

So let me get this straight. White supremecist groups should be allowed to express themselves publicly, but not Al-Qaeda?

And that's because the former "isn't dangerous"? (A claim which is debatable at best.) Can't say I agree at all, and kind of disgusted at this viewpoint.

Plus we're already having people thinking it's digusting too being called some variation of a "dumb liberal".

I'm just gonna assume they're white, thus natuarlly feeling more afraid of radical Islam.

 

[tfur]

It makes you wonder, huh. It's like if you're posting consists of something that almost resembles looking like a defense for the worst of the worst, perhaps you should just step away from the keyboard.

It makes me wonder how people have become so clueless the Constitution and civil liberties.

The Constitution does not support silencing people, especially with violence. The ACLU does not support you either.

Don't be surprised when the group that came for violence, a group called "By any means necessary" ends up having people in their group arrested.

You cannot assault people for speech or assembly. It's un-American.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Yeah, they're idiots for sure. They also have 260 twitter followers. You're giving them too much credit if you think people like this are any kind of real threat.

Who cares. Fuck them.

 

[Kastrioti]

Was this white trash, peckerwood, Neo Nazi rally in any way in support of Trump? I know they usually do their "white power" rhetoric nonsense like in the OP but was this just a regular Neo Nazi rally the white trash hold?

I knew (through some friends) maybe about two Nazi's growing up in Los Angeles and they're so weird and lost. Getting Swastika tattoos yet not even knowing where Israel is on a map or getting Vikings tattoos without even being about to name a Norse God to save their lives.

I just wonder who instigated it. If they got a permit to spout their bullshit, let them do it. If they were attacked for peacefully spouting their bullshit then the counter protesters are almost stooping to the Neo Nazi level.

 

[Jonbo298]

If the Neo Nazi's initiated the aggression then we're no longer talking about freedom of expression/speech by definition. Then it's just plain assault and they should be arrested as the law dictates.

Of course. Violent activity has to be dealt with appropriately, regardless of who/where/what started.

 

[DrForester]

http://www.tradworker.org/

Matt Heimbach with the KY Traditionalist Worker Party - YouTube

New breed of Neo-Nazis.

I thought it was some steampunk Aquaman logo...

 

[UltraGunner]

Only thing that needs to be said

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

It makes me wonder how people have become so clueless the Constitution and civil liberties.

The Constitution does not support silencing people, especially with violence. The ACLU does not support you either.

Don't be surprised when the group that came for violence, a group called "By any means necessary" ends up having people in their group arrested.

You cannot assault people for speech or assembly. It's un-American.

Thee only thing un-American here are the Neo-Nazi's.

 

[Telephone Man]

Yeah, they're idiots for sure. They also have 260 twitter followers. You're giving them too much credit if you think people like this are any kind of real threat.

There are far more popular devoted racists and groups. Letting smaller racist groups to peacfully protest will empower larger ones to do the same.

Conflict is usually bad, but it's needed in this case.

 

[Boney]

Is verbal aggression protected under the freedom of speech?

Cause a public manifestation of these hate groups is that plus intimidation and implicit death threats

 

[SoulUnison]

..Photos on social media show blood on the sidewalk of the park where the violence occurred as well as police taping off the area...

Not to make light of something awful, but this jumped out at me.

"Violence occurred." No, people were stabbed. I mean, you're not technically wrong, but it feels like they went out of their way to divorce what actually happened from the body of text.

 

[DrForester]

wtf is a Neo Nazi rally doing out in the open anywhere?

They're held pretty frequently.

 

[mr stroke]

As someone who lives in Sacramento, why in hell would you stage a Neo Nazi protest in downtown of all places?

Its one of the least "white" areas in the town.. Really guys?

 

[TS-08]

Is verbal aggression protected under the freedom of speech?

Cause a public manifestation of these hate groups is that plus intimidation.

"Verbal aggression" is protected in the sense that it is a meaningless term that would never be used in a free speech case. Other than threatening an unlawful act or inciting others to commit an imminent unlawful act (expressing bigotry in general does not fall in this category), the "public manifestation" of these groups' beliefs is going to be protected.

 

[rokkerkory]

Fuck these white trash guys gtfo of america

 

[Palette Swap]

As someone who lives in Sacramento, why in hell would you stage a Neo Nazi protest in downtown of all places?

Its one of the least "white" areas in the town.. Really guys?

I'm pretty sure you answered your own question.

Their poster for this occasion:

Everything they say reeks of Aleksandr Dugin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

From their FB:

This is a flag of Putin propped Novorossiya republic.
A fake entity they established on occupied Ukrainian territory.

Small world huh? Welcome in Putin's hybrid war, America.

Why am I not surprised. Putin has laid his fascist tentacles everywhere.

 

[AuthenticM]

Holy shit at this video:
Insane video. Crowd sees any signs of "Nazis" and they run&attack. A lot of people bleeding/getting maced. @ABC10 (Warning: Woman getting hit on the head)
How is this helping their cause?

/Wait, I think this is a neo-Nazi though.

// This is indeed a neo-Nazi!

The neo-nazies got attacked by the crowd?

lol

 

[sphagnum]

As someone who lives in Sacramento, why in hell would you stage a Neo Nazi protest in downtown of all places?

Its one of the least "white" areas in the town.. Really guys?

Probably trying to provoke a reaction.

 

[BlackSalad]

At least no one got shot or has life-threatening injuries.

 

[Valhelm]

The neo-nazies got attacked by the crowd?

lol

The dude's shirt says "Good Night Left Side", which is a Neo-Nazi slogan.

Also, the Russian connection is really interesting. Are any American far-right groups actually funded by organizations abroad?

 

[sphagnum]

The dude's shirt says "Good Night Left Side", which is a Neo-Nazi slogan.

Also, the Russian connection is really interesting. Are any American far-right groups actually funded by organizations abroad?

It wouldn't surprise me. Putin's been funding a lot of far right organizations because they cause disruption in rival countries.

 

[Grisby]

That person got whacked. Damn.

 

[Biske]

These rally happen Nationwide all the time. In America they are permitted after all. The difference is the counter protesters and even the Neo nazis themselves generally act rationally instead of like wild animals.

I mean you have people being smashed in the head with a 2by4 etc. News is now saying 7 people have been taken to the hospital several with life threatening injuries. Even bystanders just moving through the area got attacked for being Nazi.

Yeah the news lady in her periscope was saying how the counter protesters were very hostile to the cameras. Like... the fuck? the fuck are you doing.

 

[jstripes]

Absolute freedom of speech is an odd thing, from a non-American perspective.

In Canada this gathering would not have been allowed, period.

Yeah the news lady in her periscope was saying how the counter protesters were very hostile to the cameras. Like... the fuck? the fuck are you doing.

Groups like the Black Bloc don't like their identities being known. They like being able to slip into and out of these situations unidentified, using a crowd for cover.

I still find it perplexing any country that has fought the Nazis can have anyone that is pro Nazi.

 

[crisdecuba]

Absolute freedom of speech is an odd thing, from a non-American perspective.

In Canada this gathering would not have been allowed

We don't have absolute freedom of speech tho. Perhaps just greater freedom of speech.

 

[gutter_trash]

LARP'ing has never been so hardcore

I'm assuming the people dressed in black with that symbol are the nazi's?

Hahaha level up!

 

[ThisGuy]

Lol, I try to have sympathy for the people who would do harm to a portion of my family. But I just can't. Hope no one dies of course. Hope they're afraid to ever do this again.

Was this white trash, peckerwood

You're so cool.

 

[thetrin]

I still find it perplexing any country that has fought the Nazis can have anyone that is pro Nazi.

I do too, but you can't forget that America had its share of Nazi sympathizers during WWII.

 

[Cybrwzrd]

So is it clear who was attacking who or instigated the violence?

These people, regardless of how horrible their views are, have freedom of speech for a reason. We protect these shitbag nazi's freedom of speech so that ours can't be taken away as well.

He that would make his own liberty secure. must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself. -Thomas Paine

 

[antonz]

The dude's shirt says "Good Night Left Side", which is a Neo-Nazi slogan.

Also, the Russian connection is really interesting. Are any American far-right groups actually funded by organizations abroad?

Hard to say if there is funding from Russia but it is possible. Russia funds a ton of European Right wing groups but those groups are actively political and large enough to start mattering. Russia just has a large bloc of Neo-Nazi and frankly much of what the Russian Government spouts these days is borderline Nazi propaganda so there is a strong connection to Russia. Russia these days likes to present itself as the last Bastion of Christianity standing up to the west etc.

 

[Kinyou]

Police should't have let these protesters and counter protesters even get close to each other

 

[ApharmdX]

I still find it perplexing any country that has fought the Nazis can have anyone that is pro Nazi.

Russia, who lost the most citizens during WWII against the Germans, hell the most out of anyone, has a Neo-nazi problem. I'll never understand it either.

 

[Valhelm]

Hard to say if there is funding from Russia but it is possible. Russia funds a ton of European Right wing groups but those groups are actively political and large enough to start mattering. Russia just has a large bloc of Neo-Nazi and frankly much of what the Russian Government spouts these days is borderline Nazi propaganda so there is a strong connection to Russia. Russia these days likes to present itself as the last Bastion of Christianity standing up to the west etc.

Putin's simultaneous pandering to far-right Christians, far-right Muslims, and far-left authoritarians is really amazing. He's managed to unite the most disparate groups under the banner of national pride and anti-Westernism.

 

[SneakyStephan]

I was hoping it was the neo nazis who got beaten not the other way around

Racists are becoming way too confident and emboldened again these days (after so many years of progress in marginalising racism across the world)

This shit needs to be shut down, that thread about the graffiti slogans in the UK and people being told to get out was scary too

 

[The Albatross]

Nazi's usually dont like to be called what they are.

Quite the contrary, the one redeeming quality about Nazis is that they generally like to be called what they are, as opposed to the dozen or so other racist counter-culture groups that fight tooth and nail against being called white supremacists.