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[steve9842016]

I think the negative feedback you're getting is because what seems like a special case is being used as a warning to the general public that is not predisposed to injuries.

Basically this. I've been blessed with some great genetics and come from a family of body-builders. My dad competed back in the 80s and my brother is a classic physique IFBB pro. I've been working out for most of my life and was always taught about stretching and proper prep and form before I ever even touched heavy weights. And luckily my dad was the trainer for all of us, and had a proven track record of success. Squats are his specialty and it's pretty outstanding to be out-squatted still by my 55 year old dad (he still can rep 405 with ease).

OP, you were dealt a shitty hand and were likely predisposed to some major issues as I've never known anyone in the gym to have the complications you've had in such a short time. I hope you can recover and not have any further health issues moving forward, but you can't really write off certain movements and exercises as dangerous for all when it was so specific to you.

I mean, I know some pro body-builders that have unbelievably shitty form and sure they'll tear a bicep or a pec, but nothing like this.

 

[Nickle]

20 lbs of muscle lol

 

[Omegasquash]

Sucks that you're in this position, OP. Sincerely.

Lifting heavy is one thing, lifting heavy with correct form is another. That's not to say that OP didn't use correct form at all, but I hope that it serves as a reminder to start slow and low, and make sure that your progress is incremental.

If you can squat 225 with great form and feel good about it, don't bump to 250. Bump to 230. You'll get to 250 in a few weeks, most likely. Take your time, recover, lather, rinse repeat.

To anyone doubting benefits of lifting heavy squats and deadlifts, stop. The everyday benefits of being able to carry more should be apparent, because they are many.

 

[BlueTsunami]

There was a younger dude on the deadlift platform next to me, a couple of months ago. You can tell he was totally torqing his back by locking out his knees way before his hips. I saw the moment his back gave out, his posture totally changed and his face had this "Ive made a huge mistake" look. It was so bad he couldnt even unrack the weights from the barbell.

Please, please, please allow yourself to develop the correct movement patters for these lifts. Especially dealifting and squating. Dont give into your own pride and pack on the weights you cant handle.

 

[Random Painted HIghway]

This thread is about how dangerous high weight/barbell exercises are. The OP notes that he has a professional personal trainer. He has read Starting Strength. He is taking it very seriously. His doctors assured him these exercises weren't recommended because they were inherently bad on the spine rather then that they were done incorrectly. I think comparing high-level usage of the activities in question is perfectly fine.

If the issues here are caused by a "beginner error", then the OP's overall point is invalid.

Sorry, I just find equating the op and the vast majority of folks working out as professional atheletes and collegiate athletes to be a bit of a stretch and quite dismissive to the rigors that those folks have to go through to compete at those levels compared to random twenty thirty something trying to get in shape. I find it highly unlikely that someone who is an amatuer swimmer faces the same risk of injury as an amateur weight lifter. I can be proven wrong if there is research out there on this.

 

[Peltz]

This is correct, but you can't get strong without moving great weight. You can body build to make your muscles appear larger or more defined, but you won't be as strong. There is a difference.

Bullshit. You can get very strong without much weight if you increase the reps and intensity.

 

[Fred-87]

Thanks for your story.

I believe that lifting weights is just for vanity. Best thing to do is to be stress-free, walk, swim and eat healthy. Thats it.

 

[entremet]

Can you list any colossal health downsides to doing bodyweight fitness?

Otherwise why the fear?

Not at all. Do what you like, but to completely discount two great exercises for the general population comes off as alarmist.

They're great tools. They're not for everyone. Some people may not like them. They're boring for some. But discounting them for everyone? That's really been the only contention with the pushback. It does suck that the OP was injured. But these are exercises that have been proven over decades as safe for most people with proper form and progression.

 

[Peltz]

I believe that lifting weights is just for vanity.

It doesn't have to be though. Genuinely.

If you want to be fit and healthy, weights are one of many tools available to help you. There's nothing inherently vain about them.

 

[Strakt]

Thanks for your story.

I believe that lifting weights is just for vanity. Best thing to do is to be stress-free, walk, swim and eat healthy. Thats it.

Lol!

 

[Deleted member 47027]

Thanks for your story.

I believe that lifting weights is just for vanity. Best thing to do is to be stress-free, walk, swim and eat healthy. Thats it.

Lifting weights is for building functional strength. Not everything is about vanity, pal.

 

[Bladenic]

If I recall I think I tried 20 lbs. dumbbells on each hand, which was very easy for me. I was eating and working out and gaining so much strength that I eventually got to what I think was like 80-100 lbs.

LTTP but holy shit. I worked out for a while longer than you and I was nowhere near that amount of weight in dumbbells. Like maybe 50-60. Maybe a bit higher but certainly not for multiple reps.

 

[llien]

I recall 2 conversations:

"First aid" training (It's Germany dude). Guy talked about this and that and how and why. He mentioned people who lift heavy stuff at work. Regarded them as super healthy.

An experienced body builder on typical mistakes done by newcomers: "It's not only about muscles" he said, "your junctions etc also need to change, muscles are very volatile, you need to periodically slow down and let the rest of your body adapt".

 

[Bladenic]

Lifting weights is for building functional strength. Not everything is about vanity, pal.

Well, it still kind of is. Talking about how much you can lift is still vain. Now I don't agree with him saying that it applies for everyone. Some people might truly do it because they need to get stronger for practical reasons, but I'd wager those people are far fewer than those who want to look good or lift a certain amount of weight.

 

[Omegasquash]

I believe that lifting weights is just for vanity.

OK.

I make fewer trips from the car to the house to carry groceries.

I make fewer trips up and down stairs when carrying bags of salt (water soft/hardening, not gonna like I don't know which I just do what I'm told).

Splitting wood for fires in the winter.

Moving heavy furniture.

Carrying my wife to the couch, and then into the ER when she broke her ankle.

Being able to pick up my children AND my wife at the same time and run with them.

I can go on, but the point is that I can do that stuff now, and more, because of lifting weights. I'm not a big guy. I'm not a super strong guy. I know there's shit out there that I can't lift. But what I can do, I can do because of lifting. It grew my confidence because I could do more. Nothing vain about it.

Spoiler

And yes I'm pretty sure that was a troll comment that I responded to

 

[clockworkinyou]

I think Fred-87 was looking for a dragging.

Had to be.

 

[140.85]

Thanks for your story.

I believe that lifting weights is just for vanity. Best thing to do is to be stress-free, walk, swim and eat healthy. Thats it.

Sorry but the science has repeatedly confirmed the unique health benefits of strength training. Besides, "vanity" is a cynical and reductive way of looking at it. There are even numerous health benefits to increasing your self-confidence.

 

[140.85]

Also, OP, did you see my question regarding your recovery approach? That could have been a factor.

 

[The_blonde_and_blue]

Bruh. 20lbs in 3 months is crazy impressive. Jesus.
Random question though, were you active before lifting big? Like did you play other sports or were you generally athletic? Or were you a couch potato and then kinda up and decided to get "swole"?

I feel like a lot of people (me included) don't really listen to that "please consult your doctor before beginning any workout regimen". Although, in this case I'm not sure that would've helped, but you know what I mean.

 

[El Daniel]

Thanks for your story.

I believe that lifting weights is just for vanity. Best thing to do is to be stress-free, walk, swim and eat healthy. Thats it.

So? Everybody wants to look good naked.

 

[old]

This thread has me thinking. While I’m sure they do exist, I have never met a doctor in person who was hulking buff. Maybe they know something. I say trust the doctors. They know the most. Do what they do and follow their lead.

 

[ikuze]

Some things don't add up. On one hand you studied all the workouts, practiced your form to perfection and what not but overall just trained 3 months and reached weights that are far too heavy for a beginner while practicing form.
When I was starting, I was squatting an empty bar for almost an eternity and deadlifted like 10kg on each side - just to practice proper from. Also, after the first workouts my muscles were so sore, I had to pause like a week until I was able to walk like a human again.
You did mistakes, overdid your workouts, failed and now try to make the workouts the culprit, not your inability to train properly.

 

[theytookourjobz]

“Heavy” is such a relative term that whenever I hear anyone recommend against lifting “heavy” I take their advice with a grain of salt. You should read some of Dr. Stuart McGill’s papers on the spine. With a neutral spine you are able to withstain thousands of pounds of compressive force. I am not a doctor so this probably won’t mean anything but I think the people telling you your form was correct, didn’t know what they were talking about. I’m sorry that happened to you but blaming barbell exercises is the wrong answer. Resistance training with appropriately and incrementally heavier weights is one of the best things people can do for their health and longevity.

 

[borghe]

Lots of reckless trainers/gym folks in here.

Its 100% irresponsible to have beginners start with deadlifts or weighted squats.

I mean.... 100% is just BS... as with EVERYTHING, it depends. there is no such thing as "beginner". some people are incredibly healthy already.. if not naturally maybe from another background.. some have incredible mobility. some are coming back from injury. some have no background in being fit or active.

so yeah.. there are certainly people out there where starting with weights is certainly a horrible idea. and then there are others who will take to it like a fish to water. any good trainer/coach will evaluate the individual.

also one thing I ALWAYS stress is that personal accountability plays a huge part. too often at the gym I see a strength day of like "every minute on the minute 3 reps at 60% of 1RM" and then see guys with 75%+ of their 1RM loaded up on the bar. yeah.. we get it. you can do more weight than what is asked for 12 minutes.. but to the point of the OP and many in this thread... by missing the point of the programming you aren't giving your body the level of strength training it needs to build up all of the support areas (bone density, soft tissue, different twitch muscles, etc). So when you plateau in 2 months.. or even worse get hurt in less time than that... yeah....

edit - fwiw.. after the beginner gains... and having been weight training for almost 6 years now.. I've increased my numbers.. umm.. like 10% in the past three years. so on average like 3% per year. even my beginner gains were like... maybe 10% in the first year. and then somewhere in between 3-10% the second year (likely closer to 3%)

also, at 42 years old, I am still hitting small personal bests. not sure when I am going to stop hitting those.. my guess is sooner than later.. I am actually surprised when I eek out 5lbs maybe once or twice a year.

 

[Forearms]

Bullshit. You can get very strong without much weight if you increase the reps and intensity.

No, you have to increase the weight if you want your body to be able to move more weight. For example, you won't be able to comfortably squat 250 lbs 3 x 5, even if you've been squatting 150 lbs 5 x 10 over the last month.

 

[./revy]

Sorry, I just find equating the op and the vast majority of folks working out as professional atheletes and collegiate athletes to be a bit of a stretch and quite dismissive to the rigors that those folks have to go through to compete at those levels compared to random twenty thirty something trying to get in shape. I find it highly unlikely that someone who is an amatuer swimmer faces the same risk of injury as an amateur weight lifter. I can be proven wrong if there is research out there on this.

Then consider yourself unconvinced because there isn't much of a market for research on beginner's hurting themselves in dumb ways. There are certainly more swimming related fatalities than strength training ones. If you can find an abstract of Eberhardt's 2007 survey on strength training injuries among recreational participants, you might get a start but even that isn't going to be comparing amateur bodybuilders - which has a pretty solid definition in academics - to amateur swimmers - which probably encompasses the vast majority of the population.

 

[Hiz_95]

This thread has me thinking. While I’m sure they do exist, I have never met a doctor in person who was hulking buff. Maybe they know something. I say trust the doctors. They know the most. Do what they do and follow their lead.

I rarely meet people who are "hulking buff" and not many people are doctors, so the chance of you meeting a doctor who is also "hulking buff" isn't that high.

 

[BlueTsunami]

This thread has me thinking. While I’m sure they do exist, I have never met a doctor in person who was hulking buff.

Probably too busy becoming doctors

 

[SapientWolf]

Bullshit. You can get very strong without much weight if you increase the reps and intensity.

You won't get the necessary central nervous system adaptations that way. You need heavy weight. High reps are better for hypertrophy than strength.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

This thread has me thinking. While I’m sure they do exist, I have never met a doctor in person who was hulking buff. Maybe they know something. I say trust the doctors. They know the most. Do what they do and follow their lead.

Not that they're indicative of all doctors, of course, but Jordan Feigenbaum and Austin Baraki are two practicing doctors who are also Starting Strength coaches, and they have huge lifts (both squat more than 600, for example). They have plenty of videos in the SS universe.

 

[agentofatlas]

No, you have to increase the weight if you want your body to be able to move more weight. For example, you won't be able to comfortably squat 250 lbs 3 x 5, even if you've been squatting 150 lbs 5 x 10 over the last month.

Nope. He's right. You can gain strength with submaximal training. No need to max out all the time to increase strength.

 

[borghe]

Nope. He's right. You can gain strength with submaximal training. No need to max out all the time to increase strength.

but that's not what he said. You DO have to put on load at some point. You are never going to build strength efficiently by continually training at 60% of your maximum, even high volume. However you CAN build strength efficiently while having SOME non-deload days at 60% of your maximum at high volume.

it's a combination, period. Different loads train your CNS and different muscle fibers in different ways. Training constantly at lower loads is simply as inefficient as training constantly at high loads.. yes you are much less likely to get hurt, and yes over time you will still see progress.. but there are much more efficient ways to train that are still completely safe as long as you aren't stupid or overly aggressive about it.

 

[PrankT]

This thread has me thinking. While I’m sure they do exist, I have never met a doctor in person who was hulking buff. Maybe they know something. I say trust the doctors. They know the most. Do what they do and follow their lead.

I trust doctors, but there are plenty of them who smoke and are overweight.

 

[Dipper145]

Thanks for your story.

I believe that lifting weights is just for vanity. Best thing to do is to be stress-free, walk, swim and eat healthy. Thats it.

Well, there are health benefits as well to lifting weights and other exercises. But of course like anything else there are extremes to almost anything. And no one would likely want to admit it's for vanity because its generally seen as a negative trait.

Can't really blame people though, everyone wants to look good due to the advantages it gives you over others.

I think, at least from my experience in fitness culture and communities in the past, there's lots of danger in an overuse and reliance on 3rd hand information. It's difficult for beginners to find sift through the wide swathes of information and advice out there.

 

[Mook1e]

Check out athleanx on youtube. Some very good advice and lots of good body weight stuff.

 

[Bolivar687]

I'm interested in knowing what the OP's progression was after the 3 months and what it was like when the injuries happened. I've noticed a subculture in many fitness communities that implores beginners to maximize their noob gains and eschew slow linear progression programs, claiming that the fast results are worth more than perfecting a movement. Gaining 17 pounds in 3 months makes me wonder if that was the case. Using the general 1lb = 3500 calories baseline (I know it's different for everyone) that equates to about a 660+ daily surplus. That's not a lot for a single day but consistently over time, it does seem closer to the aggressive side.

I also wonder if using dumbbells for that long is part of the problem. I used dumbbells at first for a program but my apartment building's set capped out at 60lbs. When I moved to the bar to keep going, all of the soreness I used to feel on off days went away. I actually started to feel amazing after workouts and noticed my posture improve fairly quickly.

Also, all the top programs I've seen recommended start you off a ways back from your one rep max and incorporate deload periods. I'm curious if the OP went this route either.

 

[FUME5]

I've been going to doctors for the past two years without any of them able to help so please shut the fuck up before you talk

So? What advice / diagnosis did they give you? Have you followed it?

And while I know constant back pain can make a person quick to lash out, don't tell me to shut the fuck up when I am offering you helpful advice.

 

[keuja]

I appreciate OP's post just because it raises awareness that weight lifting is not without danger and that you need to have proper training, especially for deadlifting. Which is 100% true.

 

[NHarmonic.]

So? Everybody wants to look good naked.

Pretty much.

Are we shaming people for wanting to look fucking good? Lol.

This thread has me thinking. While I’m sure they do exist, I have never met a doctor in person who was hulking buff. Maybe they know something. I say trust the doctors. They know the most. Do what they do and follow their lead.

i've met cardiologists who smoke like the world's coming to an end, lots of overweight, sarcopenic ones, etc. Preaching about health should start with taking care of yourself i think.

 

[oneils]

LTTP but holy shit. I worked out for a while longer than you and I was nowhere near that amount of weight in dumbbells. Like maybe 50-60. Maybe a bit higher but certainly not for multiple reps.

He was giving the total weight of both dumbbells combined. Many people seem to be thinking he was saying he was using 80 lb dumbbells. He was using 40 lb dumbbells. Which is not a lot if he was deadlifting them.

Edit

This thread has me thinking. While I’m sure they do exist, I have never met a doctor in person who was hulking buff. Maybe they know something. I say trust the doctors. They know the most. Do what they do and follow their lead.

Check out barbellmedicine.com. Run by two mds that squat 500lbs.

https://youtu.be/e30ukNlFTPg

Edit: 600 lbs, sorry.

 

[SMattera]

I've always found dumbbell dead lifts to be slightly awkward and hard to do with a proper form. But it may just be from years and years of mostly using the barbell.

 

[cromofo]

The one popular exercise I would not recommend doing are DB flys

I feel cable flys are OK since you're under constant tension and can limit your range of motion but db flys are a danger since you have to be focused at all times and it's easy to fuck up your shoulders if you aren't. Even if you're careful, going heavy on them will negatively impact your shoulders over time.

One awkward swing and you're fucked. I learned it the hard way.

 

[Widdle Puppy]

Edit: nvm

 

[GingerNathan]

The one popular exercise I would not recommend doing are DB flys

I feel cable flys are OK since you're under constant tension and can limit your range of motion but db flys are a danger since you have to be focused at all times and it's easy to fuck up your shoulders if you aren't. Even if you're careful, going heavy on them will negatively impact your shoulders over time.

One awkward swing and you're fucked. I learned it the hard way.

This, I know so many people that have buggered up their shoulder/s going too heavy on dumbbell flies. I still do them but always do light weight with high reps. For heavier flies then cable or pec deck.

 

[ironmang]

I've always been paranoid about injuries and it's why I specifically avoid deadlifts especially. Still do squats but I don't push myself anywhere near my limit and supplement them with high rep goblet squats. As far as OHP, I just stick with DBs and make sure to keep my elbows forward.

So? Everybody wants to look good naked.

Yep. For me personally the more I improve my physique the more it draws attention away from my shitty hairline and not-so handsome face. Plus it actually gives me that all important confidence that some people say is the only thing that matters. I'll be careful where I can but I'm not going to just go with walking and eating healthy like that guy you quoted said lol.

 

[BlueTsunami]

This, I know so many people that have buggered up their shoulder/s going too heavy on dumbbell flies. I still do them but always do light weight with high reps. For heavier flies then cable or pec deck.

You can tell whos a meathead by the way they approach flys or dumbbell work in general.

 

[trixx]

I got a gym membership and honestly have no clue where to begin. I'm extremely lightweight and would just like to be light but strong

 

[Grazzt]

I fucked I up my lower back this afternoon when doing dead lift. I was using the normal weight, during the 3rd set I suddenly felt a sharp pain and dropped the weight. It’s so painful I can’t bend over even slightly

 

[GingerNathan]

You can tell whos a meathead by the way they approach flys or dumbbell work in general.

Absolutely, so many of the younger blokes at my gym press dumbbells far too heavy; incomplete reps, dropping the weight on the negative lift, and when they've finished just dropping the weight (irritatingly loud) on the floor because they can't rest them on their knees and sit up.

 

[Saint of Killers]

Absolutely, so many of the younger blokes at my gym press dumbbells far too heavy; incomplete reps, dropping the weight on the negative lift, and when they've finished just dropping the weight (irritatingly loud) on the floor because they can't rest them on their knees and sit up.

There's always the chance they'll fuck their arms up doing that and then you'll not have to suffer 'em for a while.