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[Keyouta]

A little over 3 months, yeah.
But I was doing high weight, low rep, and not having issues with it. I kept form. I think maybe it was only 75 lbs or 80 lbs. Like 40 lbs dumbbells in each hand. Can't remember, it's been a year since I did any of that.

I used both depending on the day or week. My trainer helped me design and lead my workouts. I would do different variations of deadlift or squat.

This doesn't sound correct, op. A 75/80lbs deadlift total is like, the bar plus 15 lbs on each side, a low weight for that sort of exercise. It sounds like you either had an undiagnosed problem, or used incorrect form. Usually you don't use dumbbells for deadlifts, too. As others have said, it's harder to stabilize.

Hope you get better.

 

[The Lamp]

So how did OP gain 20 pounds of muscle in 3 months lifting so light?

Do you read

So how did OP gain 20 pounds of muscle in 3 months lifting so light?

I was 150 lbs 6'2" to start. And it wasn't 20 pounds of muscle. Again, that's not what I said.

 

[SapientWolf]

Saying they are common is not endorsing them.

Them being common means they are endorsed by the community. People don't do things that make them unpopular in their community.

They're not endorsed because many people will lose their reputations, sponsorships and endorsements if they advocate for PEDs. They're commonly used because they work.

Squats scare the shit out of me. I think it's an advanced lift, and a built core and solid technique are a must.

 

[mike6467]

This doesn't sound correct, op. A 75/80lbs deadlift total is like, the bar plus 15 lbs on each side, a low weight for that sort of exercise. It sounds like you either had an undiagnosed problem, or used incorrect form. Usually you don't use dumbbells for deadlifts, too. As others have said, it's harder to stabilize.

Hope you get better.

I was half wondering if OP wasn't doing stiff/straight leg deadlifts, which put a whole lot more stress on the spine and generally use lower weight.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Yes they are.


Specific posts:

Aren't all of those in the context of professional athletes using them?

I don't think anyone in FitnessGAF would advise a beginner to seek out PEDs and use them to get big and strong.

"It's incredibly common. Go to any gym."

I said the online fitness community (including this site). Not this site specifically.

If steroid use is "incredibly common" in gyms, maybe just maybe I'm not wrong that the fitness community largely endorses their casual use?

Being incredibly common does not mean an endorsement. You know what else is incredibly common at gyms? Bad form. Not knowing what the fuck you're doing. Getting scammed by a "certified trainer" that also has no idea what they fuck he or she is doing. Loading up way too much weight on the gyms. etc. etc. Doesn't mean anyone in FitnessGAF is advocating for any of that nonsense. In fact, I would say the opposite is true.

Anyway, OP, I'm really sorry to hear you got screwed over by following the advice of someone you thought was an expert, but if you have the strength and mobility to support the weight and carry out the exercise, then the lifts you mentioned are perfectly safe and can be used to help build strength and stay healthy.

 

[Mariolee]

Really sorry to hear your story OP, and after reading through this thread it looks like you tried to go through everything in the "right" order (though maybe you may have gone too fast under a personal trainer who didn't take care of you like he should have).

I will say though that as someone in medical school right now, the vast majority of doctors and med students I met that do exercise actively weightlift, including myself.

Do you read

I was 150 lbs 6'2" to start. And it wasn't 20 pounds of muscle. Again, that's not what I said.

In order to help others out, can you be more specific about how you worked out and how rapidly you progressed? As others have mentioned in the last page, I have never heard of deadlifts with dumbbells. 20 pound gain (with the majority of it being muscle meaning at least >11 lb of muscle) is alarming.

 

[The Lamp]

Really sorry to hear your story OP, and after reading through this thread it looks like you tried to go through everything in the "right" order (though maybe you may have gone too fast under a personal trainer who didn't take care of you like he should have).

I will say though that as someone in medical school right now, the vast majority of doctors and med students I met that do exercise actively weightlift, including myself.



In order to help others out, can you be more specific about how you worked out and how rapidly you progressed? As others have mentioned in the last page, I have never heard of deadlifts with dumbbells. 20 pound gain (with the majority of it being muscle meaning at least >11 lb of muscle) is alarming.

I checked my data and it was more like 17 lbs weight gain, as I mentioned, and most of that was muscle, which is not unheard of (isn't it right that you can gain up to 1 lbs of lean muscle mass per week? All in all, 13-14 weeks means that isn't impossible)) considering I was being very careful and rigorous with my diet under the supervision of my friend who is a registered dietitian with a masters in nutrition, and my personal trainer. I ate between 3500-4000 calories per day with 175-200 g of protein, depending on the progress of my training. It was a lot, but I drank lots of water.

I did use both dumbbells and barbells for squats and deadlifts to mix things up. The dumbbells were in front of my feet and shins and pulled up. I didn't have a problem with it if the dumbbells were wide enough. It was led by one of my trainers.

 

[Sakura]

I ain't no expert but 1lb of muscle per week seems pretty crazy to me. Most of the stuff I've read says around 2lb a month assuming you are eating and doing everything right.

 

[Harrison Bergeron]

I checked my data and it was more like 17 lbs weight gain, as I mentioned, and most of that was muscle, which is not unheard of (isn't it right that you can gain up to 1 lbs of lean muscle mass per week? All in all, 13-14 weeks means that isn't impossible)) considering I was being very careful and rigorous with my diet under the supervision of my friend who is a registered dietitian with a masters in nutrition, and my personal trainer. I ate between 3500-4000 calories per day with 175-200 g of protein, depending on the progress of my training. It was a lot, but I drank lots of water.

I did use both dumbbells and barbells for squats and deadlifts to mix things up. The dumbbells were in front of my feet and shins and pulled up. I didn't have a problem with it if the dumbbells were wide enough. It was led by one of my trainers.

It's theoretically possible if you were running the appropriate calorie surplus, which I assume your trainer worked out to some degree, but it's very unusual to gain that much weight and lean mass that fast and also injure yourself so severely lifting so light. Pro athletes would envy you. You have to understand, to people with even a little bit of experience lifting weights for a while it all sounds very suspect.

 

[Hayvic]

Grow out your hair and get a girlfriend OP.

 

[Caelus]

I ain't no expert but 1lb of muscle per week seems pretty crazy to me. Most of the stuff I've read says around 2lb a month assuming you are eating and doing everything right.

I've heard of 'noob gains' before, rapid muscle growth with people who haven't lifted before or in a while.

Grow out your hair and get a girlfriend OP.

Nice.

 

[FUME5]

I've heard of 'noob gains' before, rapid muscle growth with people who haven't lifted before or in a while.

My noob gains were about 5 kg (11 pounds) over 3 months, so not impossible, especially given he seemed underweight at the beginning.

 

[Sakura]

My noob gains were about 5 kg (22 pounds) over 3 months, so not impossible, especially given he seemed underweight at the beginning.

5kg is like 11 pounds. Assuming that wasn't a typo.

 

[GodParticle]

As someone with spinal fusion and rods for scoliosis, there's no way in hell I go anywhere near heavy weighted compression exercises. Docs told me similar to OP to avoid that kind of stuff

The scariest thing to me are these crossfitters. I don't want to see what they're going to function like in a few decades

 

[Mr. X]

Hope you get better OP.

Reading your post leaves me really confused. I think you were taught poorly or these injuries existed and were worsen by your lifting. Was this crossfit?

 

[Charcoal]

When I was in Afghanistan I droped a 525lb bar while squatting. Would not recommend.

 

[oneils]

It seems he started doing bar squats and deadlifts from the get go which is insane to me. Even with good form you really can't just start with something like that. You have to work out your core and back completely before trying to add to it. This is why I mostly stick to body weight exercise there is way less risk of injury and if I really want to bulk up I'll have the core to do it safely. Too many routines just throw people right on to machines or barbells without thinking. Sorry to hear about your problems OP. It seems like you got hit with a combination of genetics and bad luck but also misinformation from the weight training community.

There is a weight with which you can start. I started with just the bar and added weight each workout. Went from a 45 lb squat two months ago to 160lbs today. Will keep increasing the weight every workout until I miss a rep.

 

[FUME5]

5kg is like 11 pounds. Assuming that wasn't a typo.

Ah, yeah, you're right. I didn't have a nutritionist though, and definitely wasn't aiming for 3500 cal a day, so it's still within the realm of possibility.

As someone with spinal fusion and rods for scoliosis, there's no way in hell I go anywhere near heavy weighted compression exercises. Docs told me similar to OP to avoid that kind of stuff

The scariest thing to me are these crossfitters. I don't want to see what they're going to function like in a few decades

Well, your physical ailments almost certainly rule out lifting heavy, however, other forms of spinal injuries etc can benefit from it immensely with a minor amount of risk for most people so long as they do shit the right way. Because it was so helpful for me is why I'm in this thread counteracting OPs experience.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

There is a weight with which you can start. I started with just the bar and added weight each workout. Went from a 45 lb squat two months ago to 160lbs today. Will keep increasing the weight every workout until I miss a rep.

Nice. Keep it up.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

What opening is saying has a level of truth to it. When you start lifting weights you have to be very careful about how you add weight and reps to your workout. When I started my friends wouldn't let me do deadlifts or squats. You need to build a good amount of muscle in your body before you can properly utilize.

That said, you can injure yourself doing any physical activity. The pros of weightlifting outweigh the cons. I pulled my back playing basketball. I fucked up my wrist playing hockey. When you do physical activity you assume some level of risk.

 

[oneils]

Nice. Keep it up.

Thanks man. Cheers.

 

[Erv]

Hey OP do you know if herniated discs are the same as bulging discs and what does your leg pain feel like?

 

[Mariolee]

I checked my data and it was more like 17 lbs weight gain, as I mentioned, and most of that was muscle, which is not unheard of (isn't it right that you can gain up to 1 lbs of lean muscle mass per week? All in all, 13-14 weeks means that isn't impossible)) considering I was being very careful and rigorous with my diet under the supervision of my friend who is a registered dietitian with a masters in nutrition, and my personal trainer. I ate between 3500-4000 calories per day with 175-200 g of protein, depending on the progress of my training. It was a lot, but I drank lots of water.

I did use both dumbbells and barbells for squats and deadlifts to mix things up. The dumbbells were in front of my feet and shins and pulled up. I didn't have a problem with it if the dumbbells were wide enough. It was led by one of my trainers.

It's not impossible, especially if you were rigorous with that diet, just unlikely for a beginner. I just think that maybe your trainer pushed you too far too fast.

Like from what weight were you originally (apologies if I missed it earlier in the thread). I'm also not sure to what extent your friend was guiding you in your diet since he wasn't actually working for you. Gains like that are insane, and obviously not without cost as you have experienced yourself.

I know how annoying it is to have people constantly question you, but a lot of this just feels like it doesn't add up.

 

[Harrison Bergeron]

It's not impossible, especially if you were rigorous with that diet, just unlikely for a beginner. I just think that maybe your trainer pushed you too far too fast.

Like from what weight were you originally (apologies if I missed it earlier in the thread). I'm also not sure to what extent your friend was guiding you in your diet since he wasn't actually working for you. Gains like that are insane, and obviously not without cost as you have experienced yourself.

I know how annoying it is to have people constantly question you, but a lot of this just feels like it doesn't add up.

I think he said he was 6'2" 150lbs. With that frame, and depending on his age, it's definitely not out of the realm of possibility. It does sound like his trainer pushed him really hard for a beginner.

 

[FUME5]

Hey OP do you know if herniated discs are the same as bulging discs and what does your leg pain feel like?

No, a herniated disc is torn or ruptured. Sciatica pain is often associated with disc injuries, for me it was a radiating pain from the lower back to the back of my knee, which would become a sharp pain (like some bastard was sawing at it) if I walked for a short distance.

 

[Mariolee]

I think he said he was 6'2" 150lbs. With that frame, and depending on his age, it's definitely not out of the realm of possibility. It does sound like his trainer pushed him really hard for a beginner.

Ah I missed that. I guess that's not too bad, a jump from 150 to 167 or 170. I really think the issue lies with his trainer.

 

[The Lamp]

Hey OP do you know if herniated discs are the same as bulging discs and what does your leg pain feel like?

From what I know, it seems like they describe mostly the same thing: your disc is protruding out of its space.

My leg pain feels like tingling and numbness, like it was asleep. Distracting.

 

[Erv]

From what I know, it seems like they describe mostly the same thing: your disc is protruding out of its space.

My leg pain feels like tingling and numbness, like it was asleep. Distracting.

thanks. is it the entire leg? foot? does it ever feel like a burning or even like your leg muscles are tearing?

 

[./revy]

Except there are people who have been lifting their entire lives and are completely fine. The fact is that most things are dangerous. Rock climbing is dangerous. Swimming is dangerous. Driving is dangerous. Stepping out your front door is dangerous. There are ways to prevent many of the risks associated with these activities and people who just aren't capable of participating in some things. That is just life.

 

[GodParticle]

Well, your physical ailments almost certainly rule out lifting heavy, however, other forms of spinal injuries etc can benefit from it immensely with a minor amount of risk for most people so long as they do shit the right way. Because it was so helpful for me is why I'm in this thread counteracting OPs experience.

Yeah, I guess it all comes down to the individual to a large extent. A lot of people do more harm than good because they don't do things the proper way

 

[Raxus]

Threads like these are,a large reason I rack up anxiety at the gym. There is so much cross talk and so much bro science it is hard to separate the two.

 

[Harrison Bergeron]

Yeah, I guess it all comes down to the individual to a large extent. A lot of people do more harm than good because they don't do things the proper way

I feel like had a bunch of injuries in the early going, but nothing extreme that I'm aware of. If you can get past a certain point of vulnerability it's amazing how resilient and tough a decently trained body is.

 

[FUME5]

thanks. is it the entire leg? foot? does it ever feel like a burning or even like your leg muscles are tearing?

Standard Gaf advice time - go to the fucking doctor if you are feeling these symptoms.

Yeah, I guess it all comes down to the individual to a large extent. A lot of people do more harm than good because they don't do things the proper way

It does. People need to educate themselves on form, but also be aware that they know their body better than any trainer ever will.

 

[140.85]

It's definitely a fact that squats and deadlifts place an immense amount of stress on the body. I'm curious about your recovery time. Did you allow 48 hours for muscle groups to recover (splits)? We're you getting 8 hours of sleep most of the time? Did you do a light week once a month and take an entire week off every 3-6 months?

Even if you feel great, the stress weights put on your body builds up silently and manifests in health problems and injuries if you're not as equally dedicated to resting as you are lifting.

 

[Staccat0]

Except there are people who have been lifting their entire lives and are completely fine. The fact is that most things are dangerous. Rock climbing is dangerous. Swimming is dangerous. Driving is dangerous. Stepping out your front door is dangerous. There are ways to prevent many of the risks associated with these activities and people who just aren't capable of participating in some things. That is just life.

From the OP

I just wanna give a word of caution. Be very safe and very cautious with any workout that is outside of body weight. It can damage your body in ways people don't tell you. And people don't know your anatomy. You may not even know your anatomy. And your physical anatomy can play in a role in how dangerous these can be. I don't think the amount of "generalized recommendation" I see for work outs for people is appropriate.

They are not claiming that everyone who lifts gets hurt. They directly say otherwise in their post.

It's weird how defensive some of the replies are.

 

[TP-DK]

OP how do you even know you got injured from deadlift and squat, it could have been any exercise you were doing wrong. Even standing bicep curls can fuck your back if you dont have a proper form all the time.

 

[Heckler456]

How do you know if you have proper form if you're doing weightlifting by your lonesome, at home? (20kg dumbells mostly)

I'm just getting started, so would it be advisable to do a few months of body weight exercises first, so that I can strengthen my core. I have shitty knees as well, so should I strengthen those first as well, before I think about doing deadlifts/squats?

Thread's kinda scary if I'm honest! I need to do some pretty heavy lifting to counteract the effects of having been obese for a super long time.

 

[Widdle Puppy]

You injured yourself with improper form and are now blaming the exercises it sounds like.

Barbell exercises are safe and will make you very healthy but it sounds like you didn't learn them properly. Don't blame the exercises because you weren't training properly.

Read starting strength.

 

[black_13]

Genetics/bone structure/height/posture/training program etc all are major factors when it comes to injury. I understand what you are implying OP and I agree with you on many things.

Weightlifting can injure you. Ask any professional powerlifter/bodybuilders and they will all have some injury they've had to over come or straight up retire because of them. I've heard of many guys who can't bench press anymore due to fucked up rotator cuffs. Dorian Yates for example. Ronnie Coleman has replaced both of his hips and multiple fusion surgery's for his bulging discs. And these are just the big guys who actually talked about their injuries. Alot of guys don't even talk about this stuff and you never hear about their injuries cause it makes them look bad but it's a very common thing.

But at the end of the day injury can come from almost any sport. Some are less risk prone and some are not. For strength training especially you have to start and build up extremely slowly especially if your body isn't structures a certain way. And this is something you don't really realize till usually it's too late or you have a really really good personal trainer with lots of experience.

Another issue I see with a lot of people doing weight training is a complete lack of proper stretching. Stretching is so important and I'm not talking about simple shit you did in high school or at the work place. Something like yoga mixed with body weight exercise stretching will prevent a lot of injury.

I've heard from multiple rehab and physicians that STATIC stretching is really not good especially before a workout. Best way to warm up is a 5 minute run/walk till you start sweating and blood starts flowing to the area that you want to train. And this is another issue with exercises. There's alot of misinformation out there and anybody that does a two week online course can now become a "personal trainer".

 

[Kinokou]

Thank you for sharing.

In general I just don't get how we can't feel that the form is wrong from the get go, not just with actives but even when standing, walking and sitting. Stories like these make me want to get someone to supervise me in my daily life to make sure I'm not slowly harming myself without being aware of it.

 

[Widdle Puppy]

How many pro powerlifters have had no injuries?

How many pro athletes have had no injuries?

Op's training regimine is not that of a pro powerlifters and in no way carries the same risk of injury as a professional athlete. There are many other factors at play and you cant compare op with a pro powerlifter just bexause they are doing the same lifts.

 

[spootime]

You injured yourself with improper form and are now blaming the exercises it sounds like.

Barbell exercises are safe and will make you very healthy but it sounds like you didn't learn them properly. Don't blame the exercises because you weren't training properly.

Read starting strength.

Even with perfect training it is almost impossible to avoid injury through weightlifting. Thats the nature of lifting heavy shit using the same motion over years. If you love weightlifting, then the injuries can be worth it. If you're just trying to maintain general health, I don't really see a reason to use heavy compound lifts.

 

[_Isaac]

My doctor told me not to do yoga because it's satanic. Now with this thread it's like the world is telling me not to exercise.

 

[GHG]

My doctor told me not to do yoga because it's satanic. Now with this thread it's like the world is telling me not to exercise.

Nobody is saying not to excersise but you need to be careful, especially with excersise that involve placing a large amount of weight above your shoulders. Take it easy, concentrate on getting your technique right and gradually build up your strength while not neglecting key areas like your core. A lot of these injuries can be traced back to poor for form and/or a weak core. Your body needs to be well balanced in order to reduce the risk of injury.

My wife went through similar issues to the OP but thankfully steroid injections and physiology have helped her on her road to recovery. But it's one of those injuries where once it happens you always need to take it into consideration even after you feel better as the weakness will always be there.

 

[Brerlappin]

It seems he started doing bar squats and deadlifts from the get go which is insane to me. Even with good form you really can't just start with something like that. You have to work out your core and back completely before trying to add to it. This is why I mostly stick to body weight exercise there is way less risk of injury and if I really want to bulk up I'll have the core to do it safely. Too many routines just throw people right on to machines or barbells without thinking. Sorry to hear about your problems OP. It seems like you got hit with a combination of genetics and bad luck but also misinformation from the weight training community.

I've done years of BW exercises, and only now have started doing a weight routine, and aside from a slightly sore back one day after a large DL, I've been absolutely fine. Bench, squat, OHP, rows, etc, every week, 3 times a week and no issues. Maybe I just have good core and back muscles already. It sounds to me like OP did too much too soon or is predisposed to these kind of injuries. Like most things in like, lifting just isn't for everyone

 

[Dipper145]

Very reasonable and well thought out description of why people should put more thought into the way they are potentially harming themselves with exercises of all kinds. I'm sure to a lot of people the concept of lifting heavy weights leading to injuries simply due to the forces involved is self obvious, but it's always good to remind people of the dangers. Although, people do dangerous and unnecessary things all the time, but I know your point wasn't to dissuade people from doing it, more to get them to be more aware of risks involved and to be safer while doing so.

At least you were prepared for the amount of people that were going to jump on you and say you were doing something wrong. Which is understandable because for a lot of people weight lifting is more of a big group of lifestyle choices and it has a very strong culture around it. It's weird to see because the message of your post overall was very good, so thank you for posting it even knowing the backlash you would get from people entrenched in that lifestyle.

 

[Erv]

Standard Gaf advice time - go to the fucking doctor if you are feeling these symptoms.



It does. People need to educate themselves on form, but also be aware that they know their body better than any trainer ever will.

I've been going to doctors for the past two years without any of them able to help so please shut the fuck up before you talk

 

[GHG]

How do you know if you have proper form if you're doing weightlifting by your lonesome, at home? (20kg dumbells mostly)

I'm just getting started, so would it be advisable to do a few months of body weight exercises first, so that I can strengthen my core. I have shitty knees as well, so should I strengthen those first as well, before I think about doing deadlifts/squats?

Thread's kinda scary if I'm honest! I need to do some pretty heavy lifting to counteract the effects of having been obese for a super long time.

Do your exercises in front of a full size mirror.

 

[./revy]

It's weird how defensive some of the replies are.

My journey taught me how dangerous high weight/barbell exercises are

I really regret most of the things I learned from personal trainers, gym fans, and what I've read from fitness communities on the internet including here. Because almost all of it was dangerous in ways most people don't know until they end up spending a year seeing ten specialist doctors like me.

The problem is almost all of these can damage the body in permanent ways that most people don't know about.

So that's my story. I fully expect bodybuilders to come tell me that I did all exercises wrong and that barbell squatting and deadlifting are safe and effective, but I just don't believe it anymore because I was as safe as I could be as a beginner and all my doctors stressed to me how frustrated they get because they don't recommend those exercises at all and it comprises a lot of the patients that show up at their door.

OP is saying that "not everyone will have issues" but they mean "most people probably will". That's incorrect. I've been working out nearly daily since I was 16. Seven years without injury. I know people who are competitive bodybuilders doing 2-3 hours of lifting every other day with few if any injuries. OP is the minority case warning about a minority case under the assumption that it happens to most people.

I've been going to doctors for the past two years without any of them able to help so please shut the fuck up before you talk

Mm.. have they ever given you advice that you ignored? Because I get the feeling this might be the case.

 

[DevilFox]

That sucks OP, I wish you to recover.
However, I still believe that lifting is safe if done smartly. Proper form, manageable weights, some gear if you need to and above all else, your own awareness about your body. That's perhaps the first thing one needs to learn: what you can and cannot do yet and how you feel that day. We're not professionals athletes so there's no need to push beyond our limits everyday.
Your story is unfortunate because as a beginner you had a taste of the ugly side of this sport before everything else, but when you learn to love lifting you still hit the gym as much as you can, even if for a year you've been trying to recover from a fucked up left shoulder like me, because what you get as a reward far exceeds the risks of injury.
That's to say: do sport. Any sport. And this advice includes you, OP, if you ever feel good again to give it a shot.