Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
OMG Aero said:
Too bad! She's already Faust's favorite pony and RD fans are obnoxious! If I ever see Sue traits in this show I'm lookin' at it right now!
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My Little Pony FiM Season 2 |OT| - Quality Has No Demographic
- Thread starter DrForester
- Start date
Too bad! She's already Faust's favorite pony and RD fans are obnoxious! If I ever see Sue traits in this show I'm lookin' at it right now!
Rickenslacker
Banned
She could already teleport willy nilly, she did it in Applebuck Season and then completely forgot about it until that episode it seems.McNum said:
Ookami-kun said:
Betty Sue means she's perfect and can always instantly get out of any situation doesn't?
Well, that's not Rainbow Dash at all. She's an idiot for a start, easily the least intelligent of the mane six, and suffers from crippling self doubt.
She can fly really fast, that's it. (Apart from her being the being the best pony.)
Captain Fish
Member
If they really didn't mean for it to be a Sonic Rainboom, they shouldn't have reused the asset. Either way, it's not like a huge mushroom cloud in addition to same effect is somehow less impressive than a Rainboom.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Having watched Star Trek, and see Wesley Crusher in action, calling RD a Mary Sue is just not appropriate.
Even if it was a boom in this episode, big deal. It was not used to advance the plot, or do anything essential to the narrative.
Even if it was a boom in this episode, big deal. It was not used to advance the plot, or do anything essential to the narrative.
Slamtastic
Member
Furret said:
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Episode 6 sounds great. Still "rumor" but this is the person who's been giving ED synopsis and has been right on everything so far. Both 5 and 6 added to OP.
Air Time: 11/12/11 10:00 am EST
Title: The Cutie Pox
Synopsis: Applebloom finally gets her Cutie Mark! But joy turns to panic as she gets a second, then a third, then a dozen cutie marks.
Air Time: 11/12/11 10:00 am EST
Title: The Cutie Pox
Synopsis: Applebloom finally gets her Cutie Mark! But joy turns to panic as she gets a second, then a third, then a dozen cutie marks.
AceBandage
Banned
Bet it covers her body, and it's some spell by Trixie.Orcastar said:
Amibguous Cad
Member
AceBandage said:
Pfft, Trixie can't do real magic
AceBandage
Banned
Amibguous Cad said:
What do you think she's been doing all this time?
Learning dark magic to take revenge on Twilight and Ponyville.
RomanticHeroX
Member
Calling it now: Zecora saves the day by diagnosing her with Cutiepox.DrForester said:
theinfinityissue
Member
Amibguous Cad said:
wow sounds like someone is upset because they can't hang with the best pony ever.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Furret said:
In raw definition Sue doesn't necessarily mean perfect. Just a sticking out element that everyone seems to need that character quite drastically that it is noticeable. Usually due to the character being an author's pet or the author's character.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Which isn't the case with Dash. As everypony usually goes to someone for help depending on what they need help with. AJ wasn't going to go to Fluttershy looking for demolition help, jsut as Twilight didn't go to Dash to fix her dress for the gala.Ookami-kun said:
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
DrForester said:
Yeah, but giving her the usual "fixer" as seen in previous episodes has that connotation.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Ookami-kun said:
Having one of the two most physically capable ponies seek out the help for a physical task from the other is somehow implying something?
Once again, Wesley was a Marry Sue. Something goes wrong, he comes to the rescue to fix it. Other than the Dash centric "Sonic Rainboom" and to a lesser extent "Cutie Mark Chronicles", Dash is never the single solution to the problem. When something has to be done, it almost always a team effort on the part of everyone.
RomanticHeroX
Member
Dash has flaws, but they just make her more perfect.
Rickenslacker
Banned
Yeah, things looked different from last season. And aww at Big Mac liking the doll even without the spell.Jintor said:
If people have a loose enough definition of Mary Sue that they consider Dash to be at risk of becoming one, then they should really think that of all the ponies. All of them are perfect in their own way. Even Applejack.
Fundamentally, there's nothing wrong with things that lean in the direction of a Mary Sue. Characters can be great at things. They can be the best at things. Good authors can draw from their own lives and even write themselves into their work. It's when these kinds of things are taken too far that it becomes a problem.
As for the Sonic Rainboom, in it's first appearance, it was clear that Dash should be able to do them, because she was born with the right hair type and has actually done one in the past, but something mental was stopping her. Friend in danger? Mental block is broken, she performs her second one.
In it's second appearance, first chronological, we see that she performed one as a child, in her first ever race.
That tells me that it's not something that's physically difficult for her to do, it's mostly in her head. Something happened to her between her childhood and the Young Flyers Competition which caused her to doubt her ability to do another (I'm guessing her lack of flight control, and having made herself a bullying target by standing out), and it was the doubt made it impossible for her to continue doing them. Since she was unable to do a second one, she increasingly was forced to write off her first one as some sort of aberration or fluke. She might even start to doubt that the first one ever happened.
I think it's fine to say that the confidence boost from the second one was all she needed to be able to do them on a regular basis, and I think that it's very much in-character for her to be playing with her new trick.
I suspect that she hit the ground beneath the house, causing the explosion and mushroom cloud. I wouldn't expect her to survive that, but... it's a cartoon and she's made of dark matter.
As for it's usefulness, timing the shockwave to appear just before she hits the ground, allowed her to hit a structurally-compromised building with a point-blank shockwave. It's not clear if it was the Rainboom's shockwave or Dash's impact with the ground (or both) which wrecked the house though. It's not like it matters. Dash was playing. She had to try and hit it with a shockwave.
Fundamentally, there's nothing wrong with things that lean in the direction of a Mary Sue. Characters can be great at things. They can be the best at things. Good authors can draw from their own lives and even write themselves into their work. It's when these kinds of things are taken too far that it becomes a problem.
As for the Sonic Rainboom, in it's first appearance, it was clear that Dash should be able to do them, because she was born with the right hair type and has actually done one in the past, but something mental was stopping her. Friend in danger? Mental block is broken, she performs her second one.
In it's second appearance, first chronological, we see that she performed one as a child, in her first ever race.
That tells me that it's not something that's physically difficult for her to do, it's mostly in her head. Something happened to her between her childhood and the Young Flyers Competition which caused her to doubt her ability to do another (I'm guessing her lack of flight control, and having made herself a bullying target by standing out), and it was the doubt made it impossible for her to continue doing them. Since she was unable to do a second one, she increasingly was forced to write off her first one as some sort of aberration or fluke. She might even start to doubt that the first one ever happened.
I think it's fine to say that the confidence boost from the second one was all she needed to be able to do them on a regular basis, and I think that it's very much in-character for her to be playing with her new trick.
I suspect that she hit the ground beneath the house, causing the explosion and mushroom cloud. I wouldn't expect her to survive that, but... it's a cartoon and she's made of dark matter.
As for it's usefulness, timing the shockwave to appear just before she hits the ground, allowed her to hit a structurally-compromised building with a point-blank shockwave. It's not clear if it was the Rainboom's shockwave or Dash's impact with the ground (or both) which wrecked the house though. It's not like it matters. Dash was playing. She had to try and hit it with a shockwave.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
See, my problem is that somehow everything happened because of her, especially in CMC. That thing really bothered me (especially with its "lesson" that somehow everything is connected).
She might not be an actual Sue, but she's leaking of your typical author insert character (one of the typical Sue traits) as Faust said... and the same reason as I hate Hermione for that.
Oh and you can be imperfect and still a Sue.
Not really. My favorite character has even yet to get an episode dedicated to her (AJ) for crying out loud!
She might not be an actual Sue, but she's leaking of your typical author insert character (one of the typical Sue traits) as Faust said... and the same reason as I hate Hermione for that.
Oh and you can be imperfect and still a Sue.
Pandaman said:
Not really. My favorite character has even yet to get an episode dedicated to her (AJ) for crying out loud!
CMC was unbalanced, having everyone's cutie mark reveal being the result of Dash's cutie mark reveal, but it was kind of required, since any unifying force would have to be flashy, and if you want flashy it has to be either Twilight or Dash. And it's kind of predictable to have Twilight, the protagonist, be the link. And Dash's reveal was already known to the audience. Her reveal would have been a weak point if it wasn't beefed up somehow.Ookami-kun said:
Also, Dash didn't really "give" anyone their cutie marks. They were all at a point where things were about to happen, and Dash's showy display was just enough of a nudge needed to push things in the right direction. Applejack for example was regretting her path in life, staring towards home, crying even, when she saw a line pointing home and said "Fuck it, I'm going home." Having Dash's show be "the trigger" for events doesn't cheapen anything. AJ could have seen that line and said "Home? No way. I'm not giving up yet. Do you hear me universe?! You can't beat me so easily!" She could've done the complete opposite of what she did. The interpretation of Dash's display was all Applejack.
The theory is that interesting characters have flaws. A Mary Sue is supposed to be perfect. Her "flaws", if she has any, are supposed to be things designed to cause more attraction than if she was merely perfect. Fluttershy's shyness is a good example of that type of "flaw".
Of course, a good character doesn't always need to have flaws, and "attractive flaws" are not necessarily a bad thing.
Dark Phoenix
Member
Siiiiiiiigh, another argument about Mary Sues in canon? Plus it's about the best pegasus? Let's rectify this.
First off, Rainbow Dash can't do Sonic Rainbooms like nothing. The "Sonic Rainboom" we saw during the rainbow explosion was a shock wave, nothing more. Like the one that came from the release of the rainbow beam from the Elements of Harmony. If we use everything that looks like a Sonic Rainboom, Rainbow Dash has done four, and the other mane 6 has done one.
Secondly, in order for Rainbow Dash to be a Mary Sue, she has to be perfect, and she's not. If she was, she'd already be a Wonderbolt that is ten times better than the rest of them, sure, she is in her thoughts, but that's just her wishful thinking. She has the same problems like the rest of the cast, problems about friendship, work, goals, etc. Because she inadvertently helped all the mane six get their cutie marks doesn't make her perfect. Her doing a Sonic Rainboom to do that may be absurdly powerful, but power doesn't equal Mary Sue.
First off, Rainbow Dash can't do Sonic Rainbooms like nothing. The "Sonic Rainboom" we saw during the rainbow explosion was a shock wave, nothing more. Like the one that came from the release of the rainbow beam from the Elements of Harmony. If we use everything that looks like a Sonic Rainboom, Rainbow Dash has done four, and the other mane 6 has done one.
Secondly, in order for Rainbow Dash to be a Mary Sue, she has to be perfect, and she's not. If she was, she'd already be a Wonderbolt that is ten times better than the rest of them, sure, she is in her thoughts, but that's just her wishful thinking. She has the same problems like the rest of the cast, problems about friendship, work, goals, etc. Because she inadvertently helped all the mane six get their cutie marks doesn't make her perfect. Her doing a Sonic Rainboom to do that may be absurdly powerful, but power doesn't equal Mary Sue.
I don't think it matters whether something is canon or not. A Mary Sue can certainly be a character in an official canon, or even the main character of a story. But it's also often poorly used because for some reason no one on the internet seems to really know what it really means!
It's pretty unfortunate.
It's pretty unfortunate.
There's only one Mary Sue, and that's Mary Sue.duckroll said:
http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dark/1000/marysue.htm
The rest is just people theorizing on exactly what it is that makes Mary Sue bad (since she's so obviously bad), and how close is getting too close to her for comfort. There will never be a clear line.
Azure Dream
Member
It was a visual gag.
Dark Phoenix
Member
Yep, this is something I forgot in my post, but what usually happens in cartoons when things collide in a spectacular fashion? Explosions, good ol' wholesome explosions.Kulock said:
ruby_onix said:
I feel there's a pretty clear line. A Mary Sue is bad because the characteristics and interactions of the character are self-serving fantasies rather than actual good narrative points. Once you do that, it becomes bad, and it's a lame character.
In something like Gundam SEED, Kira Yamato clearly becomes a total Mary Sue character by the end of the series, and in Gundam SEED Destiny. He serves pretty much no purpose any than to be so skilled, so idealistic, and yet unstoppable such that he is the solution to all the problems in the show for everyone. It's nonsense.
It's not about perfection, but rather about the convenience of being everything that is needed by the "narrative" to solve any possible crisis. As such, the "narrative" becomes about looking at how AWESOME this character is, instead of telling a decent story.
There are no such characters in MLP, and MLP is hardly about looking at how awesome any of the characters really are, but rather telling specific stories from week to week which range in terms of focus and in gags. Some are better than others, but none of them serve to specifically show off a character's awesomeness.
Hence using Mary Sue for such a show is really silly.
From Wikipedia:
"A Mary Sue (sometimes just Sue), in literary criticism and particularly in fanfiction, is a fictional character with overly idealized and hackneyed mannerisms, lacking noteworthy flaws, and primarily functioning as a wish-fulfillment fantasy for the author or reader."
That's not Rainbow Dash, or any other of the others, in any shape or form. They've all had serious mental breakdowns (some of them more than once) and none of them has more than one or two areas in which they excel.
Rainbow Dash is super fast and very sporty, but that's it. She's also insecure, is below average intelligence, has a very short attention and is extremely headstrong.
"A Mary Sue (sometimes just Sue), in literary criticism and particularly in fanfiction, is a fictional character with overly idealized and hackneyed mannerisms, lacking noteworthy flaws, and primarily functioning as a wish-fulfillment fantasy for the author or reader."
That's not Rainbow Dash, or any other of the others, in any shape or form. They've all had serious mental breakdowns (some of them more than once) and none of them has more than one or two areas in which they excel.
Rainbow Dash is super fast and very sporty, but that's it. She's also insecure, is below average intelligence, has a very short attention and is extremely headstrong.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I guess you can blame the Dash fans for that. Made me feel like towards that.
Also duck, don't forget Lacus. Then again, that whole Gundam SEED and its sequel was pretty much made just to cash-in on yaoi fangirls.
Also duck, don't forget Lacus. Then again, that whole Gundam SEED and its sequel was pretty much made just to cash-in on yaoi fangirls.
Finally managed to watch the episode and DAYUM.
The episode was really great, even if terrifying. Another one of the episode-I-would-never-show-my-children (HIII GIIIIIIRLS) type.
But really, the highlight here is the animation. It's noticeable there must've been a huge bump in budget. The episode looked simply fantastic. I believe music was a tad better than that of the first season, but it's not nearly the same level the animation progressed. So beautiful.
The episode was really great, even if terrifying. Another one of the episode-I-would-never-show-my-children (HIII GIIIIIIRLS) type.
But really, the highlight here is the animation. It's noticeable there must've been a huge bump in budget. The episode looked simply fantastic. I believe music was a tad better than that of the first season, but it's not nearly the same level the animation progressed. So beautiful.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
DrForester said:
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
You cannot be a brony for realz until you post pony rankings!Anabuhabkuss said: