Support NeoGAF

[ConkerTheSquirrel.]

I think true gaming hobbyists transcend generations and play whatever catches their eyes, and it all starts with appreciation of older games.

 

[FinalBossWithTheMostPower]

No when your first console was an Atari 2600. The N64 reveal was mind blowing.

It wasn't the graphics that were mind blowing, cause they were fugly as shit, it was the shift from 2D to 3D.

 

[LordOcidax]

I think true gaming hobbyists transcend generations and play whatever catches their eyes, and it all starts with appreciation of older games.

Also older players experienced the transition from the Atari to this days… Going from 2D to 3D was pure magic.

 

[nkarafo]

It wasn't the graphics that were mind blowing, cause they were fugly as shit, it was the shift from 2D to 3D.

I assure you, nobody saw Mario 64 on the screen in 1996 and said "this looks fugly as shit, but it's 3D so i guess its fine."

 

[LordOcidax]

It wasn't the graphics that were mind blowing, cause they were fugly as shit, it was the shift from 2D to 3D.

By that time nobody was thinking that those graphics were ugly… I remember thinking that nothing was going to surpass Gran Turismo in terms of graphics or Ocarina Of Time.

 

[TintoConCasera]

It wasn't the graphics that were mind blowing, cause they were fugly as shit, it was the shift from 2D to 3D.

"It wasn't the graphics, it was the graphics"

 

[LordOcidax]

"It wasn't the graphics, it was the graphics"

They are not going to understand how magically it was . Poor souls.

 

[FinalBossWithTheMostPower]

I assure you, nobody saw Mario 64 on the screen and said "this looks fugly as shit, but it's 3D so i guess its fine."

I assure you, we did.

 

[nkarafo]

I assure you, we did.

In 1996?

 

[LordOcidax]

I assure you, we did.

Back in 96? 0%

 

[FinalBossWithTheMostPower]

"It wasn't the graphics, it was the graphics"

Really?

Going 3D changed how we played.

Better graphics just change how it looks.

 

[nkarafo]

Texture wise the N64 has some bottlenecks but you could still do high detail textures by combining more than one together. This is how RARE achieved great texturing in most of their games. And because the N64 could stream from the cart faster than a CD, they could put a ton of little textures like this and not worry about the CD laser trying to find them.

 

[Calverz]

Yes some games look good especially on a crt using rgb scart. Anything other than crt, and its pretty rough tbh.

 

[LordOcidax]

Really?

Going 3D changed how we played.

Better graphics just change how it looks.

We are talking about graphics here and how mind blowing was by that time.

 

[FinalBossWithTheMostPower]

In 1996?

I was there.

 

[Syphon Filter]

N64 graphics were terrible even when the console was new.

huh? the graphics were incredible when it was new.

I dont agree with native N64 games, but run them through emulators at a much higher resolution and N64 games can look surprisingly good. Much better than PS1 games which running at higher resolutions just highlights the problems like polygon seams, texture warping, and wobbly polygons. Funnily enough the low resolution of native PS1 games actually hides a lot of the flaws those games had.

n64 had an expansion pack for higher resolution dont forget, it is close to an emulator somewhat.

 

[FinalBossWithTheMostPower]

We are talking about graphics here and how mind blowing was by that time.

Right?

I'm countering that and saying it wasn't the graphics cause N64's were shit.

 

[existensmaximum]

Really? I thought they looked horrible back in the days already and they have aged like milk. So much worse than NES and SNES for example. Gross.

 

[nkarafo]

I was there.

I never met someone personally with this opinion but it's a big world, i suppose you existed.

 

[Paulistano]

N64 aged like spoiled wine and turned into vinegar.

 

[LordOcidax]

Right?

I'm countering that and saying it wasn't the graphics cause N64's were shit.

Said nobody in 1996.

 

[FinalBossWithTheMostPower]

I never met someone personally with this opinion but it's a big world, i suppose you existed.

 

[FinalBossWithTheMostPower]

Said nobody in 1996.

 

[lakitu1982]

I play my N64 with RGB hooked up to my B&O 21" CRT. No complaints here. I love how the N64 looks. I also love the warpy sharp jaggies of the PS1 and that VGA goodness of the Dreamcast. They all look amazing to me.

 

[ConkerTheSquirrel.]

Also older players experienced the transition from the Atari to this days… Going from 2D to 3D was pure magic.

I'd also argue that going from 3D to 2D (especially after a long period of time away from retro games) has the same effect.

Playing a game on something that's as analog as a cassette tape or a floppy disk is mesmerizing to me.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

The revisionist history in this thread is on another level, jeez.

Whoever says the best N64 games didn't look incredible in their time either wasn't there (probably the majority), never actually saw them, is a salty PS/Saturn user with a very old axe to grind, or is just geriatric.

Banjo-Kazooie and Conker, among others, were mindblowing even through a composite cable.

But by all means keep posting meaningless emulation screenshots to "prove" a point you could never make otherwise.
I saw better-looking screenshots on paper mags taken with late-90's photo tech than the conveniently pixelated shit everyone is posting in here to delude themselves.

 

[LordOcidax]

I'd also argue that going from 3D to 2D (especially after a long period of time away from retro games) has the same effect.

Playing a game on something that's as analog as a cassette tape or a floppy disk is mesmerizing to me.

The majority of youngers players don't appreciate that, especially the ones that their first console was a PS2 or PS3. They find the PS1 or N64 era graphics ugly as fu** with theirs reasons and hate 2D games, especially the pixelated ones.

 

[Thanati]

Nope. Not at all.

 

[Romulus]

I wish I could buy an ounce and freebase it to see what the OP is seeing. I grew up with colecovision and Atari 2600 and N64 was cool at the time, but even back then PSX managed to outdo it in many cases by adding in cool FMV, voiced roles, etc. I think all these old games should be remade sp that my kids can play them sober and enjoy them.

In actual gameplay, no. N64 dominated ps1 95% of the time. But only when the n64 stayed in its lane, then it looked far better. Trying to imagine 007, wave rave, etc just seems completely laughable on ps1.

 

[nkarafo]

Another N64 looker.

Yeah, it's a sports game, but NFLQ98 was very impressive when it was released in 1997. It had 640x480 resolution without the expansion pack, lots of detailed 3D players on screen (including referees and other models) and smooth frame rate.

It's the best looking sports game of that generation and blows anything similar on PS1/SAT out of the water. And it's better looking than it's sequels too, they messed up those a bit.

The above picture is not enhanced in any way. It's an accurate, native resolution screen.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

It's the polar opposite with GameCube, where Nintendo learned most of the right lessons and had something that could even outperform OG Xbox in some areas.

lol

Only they screwed up again going with mini-DVD discs instead of DVD discs proper, so in a way they repeated one of their biggest mistakes with N64 for a 2nd gen in a row

mini dvd is not the reason why GC is known as the weakest 6th gen console.

 

[LordOcidax]

mini dvd is not the reason why GC is known as the weakest 6th gen console.

Nobody thinks that .

 

[ConkerTheSquirrel.]

The majority of youngers players don't appreciate that, especially the ones that their first console was a PS2 or PS3. They find the PS1 or N64 era graphics ugly as fu** with theirs reasons and hate 2D games, especially the pixelated ones.

I guess you'd have to have a degree of open-mindedness to go from 3D to 2D in this case.

 

[Romulus]

Another N64 looker.

Yeah, it's a sports game, but NFLQ98 was very impressive when it was released in 1997. It had 640x480 resolution without the expansion pack, lots of detailed 3D players on screen (including referees and other models) and smooth frame rate.

It's the best looking sports game of that generation and blows anything similar on PS1/SAT out of the water. And it's better looking than it's sequels too, they messed up those a bit.

The above picture is not enhanced in any way. It's an accurate, native resolution screen.

Yeah there are a few games on ps1 that look about as good as the middle-upper tier of n64 games. But I would go as far as saying the cream of the crop n64 games looked nearly a full generation better than anything on ps1. Fmv videos and disk space advantages aside it felt like a monster graphically in actual gameplay.

And the crazy part is I'd argue Sony had the better developers for visual prowes, and still had nothing close to those top 15 games.

 

[mild sriracha]

in hindsight actual non-emulated hardware N64 may look hilariously blurry, but i dont think that problem was so easily visible back in the 90s, when the majority of players had no awareness about texture filtering & were using RCA composite cables. Would you trust composite cable to show you accurate pixels in the first place ?

My gripe against N64 during the 90s was the characters looking childish. Back then I had no complaint about the sharpness or bluriness of its graphics. I did not know any better.



This is actual N64 + HDMI mod.

 

[existensmaximum]

The revisionist history in this thread is on another level, jeez.

Whoever says the best N64 games didn't look incredible in their time either wasn't there (probably the majority), never actually saw them, is a salty PS/Saturn user with a very old axe to grind, or is just geriatric.

Banjo-Kazooie and Conker, among others, were mindblowing even through a composite cable.

But by all means keep posting meaningless emulation screenshots to "prove" a point you could never make otherwise.
I saw better-looking screenshots on paper mags taken with late-90's photo tech than the conveniently pixelated shit everyone is posting in here to delude themselves.

I was there. And by the way, PS1 and Saturn polygon games looked like dogshit too, just like on the N64. The 2D games looked beautiful but I just couldn't believe how people could like the primitive 3D stuff. It was like taking one step forward and three steps back for me.

I always figured that the next gen consoles would go from SNES 2D graphics (which looked amazing and still do to this day) to something that looked like hand drawn cartoons or at least Neo Geo on steroids but unfortunately 2D pretty much died then and there in favor of 3D.

So sad.

 

[hussar16]

Upscaked ps1 graphics hold up better. N64 textures are super washed out and blurry

 

[roosnam1980]

The revisionist history in this thread is on another level, jeez.

Whoever says the best N64 games didn't look incredible in their time either wasn't there (probably the majority), never actually saw them, is a salty PS/Saturn user with a very old axe to grind, or is just geriatric.

Banjo-Kazooie and Conker, among others, were mindblowing even through a composite cable.

But by all means keep posting meaningless emulation screenshots to "prove" a point you could never make otherwise.
I saw better-looking screenshots on paper mags taken with late-90's photo tech than the conveniently pixelated shit everyone is posting in here to delude themselves.

 

[nkarafo]

This Sonic GIF is magical. Looks too clean to be a real picture so some fancy CTR shader?

I was there. And by the way, PS1 and Saturn polygon games looked like dogshit too, just like on the N64. The 2D games looked beautiful but I just couldn't believe how people could like the primitive 3D stuff. It was like taking one step forward and three steps back for me.

PS1/SAT/N64 were more like "2nd Generation 3D". It was when textures finally became the norm and that made a huge difference.

This is what primitive 3D looks like:

I always figured that the next gen consoles would go from SNES 2D graphics (which looked amazing and still do to this day) to something that looked like hand drawn cartoons or at least Neo Geo on steroids but unfortunately 2D pretty much died then and there in favor of 3D.

There were plenty of that too but i suppose you are right, 3D took over more

 

[iHaunter]

 

[Romulus]

The revisionist history in this thread is on another level, jeez.

Whoever says the best N64 games didn't look incredible in their time either wasn't there (probably the majority), never actually saw them, is a salty PS/Saturn user with a very old axe to grind, or is just geriatric.

Banjo-Kazooie and Conker, among others, were mindblowing even through a composite cable.

But by all means keep posting meaningless emulation screenshots to "prove" a point you could never make otherwise.
I saw better-looking screenshots on paper mags taken with late-90's photo tech than the conveniently pixelated shit everyone is posting in here to delude themselves.

The telling part is people arguing for ps1 won't say things like ps1 blew away n64 because it's ridiculous. You could make the argument n64 because it was way ahead graphically. It wasn't close comparing the giants on both.

 

[mild sriracha]

This Sonic GIF is magical. Looks too clean to be a real picture so some fancy CTR shader?

Yeah. Retroarch has so many different shaders now.

 

[Lord Malachite]

Not sure if serious? N64 had some of the ugliest graphics I can recall. Not that PSX was some work of art either. But the sheer visibility of its "walls" and world edges was so immersion breaking that I could never lose myself in an N64 title.

This was a painful, transitory time for video games and not one I can feel any nostalgia for. These backgrounds were not good and best forgotten.

 

[Syphon Filter]

Not sure if serious? N64 had some of the ugliest graphics I can recall. Not that PSX was some work of art either. But the sheer visibility of its "walls" and world edges was so immersion breaking that I could never lose myself in an N64 title.

This was a painful, transitory time for video games and not one I can feel any nostalgia for. These backgrounds were not good and best forgotten.

not sure if you are serious. perfect dark looked amazing at the time, especially with the expansion pack.

 

[acm2000]

In pal land the N64 was a fucking mess, horribly blurry output, horrific frame rates etc etc

 

[Germuso]

Zelda and Mario CDI are like old Disney films, even had voice acting.

 

[Parazels]

Was it possible on the Nintendo 64?

 

[NeverYouMind]

Neither of those games look better than Turok 2… Not even close.

They were not compared with Turok 2.

Lifeforce Tenka > Turok 2

Another great looking N64 game was Mace the Dark Age. The fighters had a ton of detail on them and the arenas were fully 3D.

Cardinal Syn > Mace: The Dark Ages

Looks even worse than Goldeneye dude. At least that level you posted isn't anything impressive... very simple topology and flat lighting. Dudes fire their guns but no light comes from them at all.

Check out the time-stamped shootout. Glass breaks down into pieces, the muzzle flash iluminates the surrounding background and all those lights you see can be shot at, affecting the environment, plus all those particles when the bullets hit the walls. It's great.

You are missing the forest for the trees. The rendered characters and more realized environments of PS1 make the N64 versions look like goofy toy playsets. No amount of effects can hide the low quality base assets.

P.S. If you think finding CRT screenshots or footage of one of the most popular games of all time is hard I don't have to tell you that finding screenshots of the obscure games I have posted on PS1 instead of a PC monitor is impossible without capture equipment. I have given the footage above simply as a point of reference.

 

[nkarafo]

Was it possible on the Nintendo 64?

Sorry, i don't see anything special here. Rapid Racer has the worst water effects i have seen in a while and overall, it doesn't look as good as Hydro Thunder, let alone WaveRace.

Porsche Challenge looks nice but WDC looks better, with a more advanced engine.

Lifeforce Tenka > Turok 2

What? Absolutely not.

Tenka is just small corridors and boxy rooms with very little geometry detail. Turok 2 is bigger in scope and has way more detail at the same time. It's not even close, i'm not sure how this is not trolling.

Why not propose a better looking PS1 FPS game like, dunno, Quake 2? Which is the only PS1 FPS that can compare with N64's best.

 

[Moses85]

Doom 64 was the best looking game of that generation IMO.

It's also devoid of any "N64 issues". It has no blur, no fog/pop-up, no lowres textures and runs at a steady 30fps.

Perfect Dark and Conkers Bad fur day