Nathan Drake's looking good (Uncharted 4)

RoboPlato said:
That's exactly what an iterative engine is. They're not starting from scratch but they're overhauling almost everything.
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To make an engine from scratch, you need to build a time machine, go back and invent computers, then an OS for them, then new programs and tools for coding, then a new engine, but you will find yourself copying or using the same architecture and codes you knew in the future you came from. There is nothing built from scratch in this world.
 
VFX_Veteran said:
I'm not blind and not playing devil's advocate.

I disagree that ND is the ONLY company that has paved the way on setting gold standards in cinematic visuals. There are other studios that have done the same. You speak as if each Uncharted game blew away every other game (graphically) out of the water.. including games on the PC. That's just .... incorrect imo.
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On Consoles yes they have set the standard. Pefect marriage of art and tech.
 
Shadow_FFVI said:
That´s the amazing part. They work within the confines of the limited hardware at their disposal. They do wonders all things considered.
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I agree. They are a very talented crew artistically.

they absolutely have released the best looking games of each year they release a game (on consoles).

If they were working on PC, believe me, they would be doing the same.
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You have your opinion, I have mine. I guess we should just leave it at that.
 
Shadow_FFVI said:
That´s the amazing part. They work within the confines of the limited hardware at their disposal. They do wonders all things considered. they absolutely have released the best looking games of each year they release a game (on consoles).

If they were working on PC, believe me, they would be doing the same.
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ND working on PC would be amazing.
 
Ishida said:
What is a fact, then? Certainly not what you are saying.
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I'm saying there are other studios that have pushed graphical technology engines further than ND. COMPANIES.. not games. We can discuss facts with tech but I think it would be too tiring and I respect your opinion.. but please don't be snide about mine.
 
VFX_Veteran said:
There are OTHER companies that give tech talks at GDC. You think ND is the only company that does that?
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No shit. I never said that.

I'm just saying they excel in specific areas, more than enough to stand out.

Their layered animation system for Drake's Fortune allowed varied character animation that was probably better than anything on PC at the time.
 
VFX_Veteran said:
Reusing code yes.. I know. But going from a function based, single-threaded system written in C to a purely OO based, muti-threaded system, IMO requires an overhaul. Sure, I can take an algorithm for building an octree and reuse that code somewhere else, but the foundation for the graphics engine CAN change. If we look at an engine based on DirectX 7.0, for example and needed to port it to DX11, you'd make a LOT of changes to the point where it would better to just change your foundation.
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consider the NDengine is not to directly compare with your typical DXengine. it goes a lot lower level than that, therefore that what you call foundation has to be rewritten with change of Hardware (as seen in the ps3 to ps4 transition) anyways.
 
PLASTICA-MAN said:
He thinks his impressions are facts. I love this world, you can't miss an opportunity to chuckle or laugh :D
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Pot calling kettle? I think it's the other way around.

GAFer -- "Game from ND is going to be superior to everything out because it's always been that way."

Me -- "No.. IMO it hasn't always been that way.. Look at Crysis 1 using Crytek engine.. Nothing has been even close to that tech in years.. "

GAFer -- "How dare you speak out about ND not being the superior company to any company out there! You must be an idiot!"
 
Shin-Ra said:
Top secret footage of Elena's U4 idle animation!

ElenaDawn.gif
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Looks like a blonde Cindi Lauper.
 
Older Nate looks great, but I'll admit that I really like the textures in the clothing a bit more due to it stretching like a real cotton shirt.

Please ND, give me a remastered Uncharted collection... And I need more footage of Uncharted 4 as I really want to see Sully, Elena & Chloe. Oh and Cutter too!
 
VFX_Veteran said:
Pot calling kettle? I think it's the other way around.

GAFer -- "Game from ND is going to be superior to everything out because it's always been that way."

Me -- "No.. IMO it hasn't always been that way.. Look at Crysis 1 using Crytek engine.. Nothing has been even close to that tech in years.. "

GAFer -- "How dare you speak out about ND not being the superior company to any company out there! You must be an idiot!"
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Who is this GAFer?
 
VFX_Veteran said:
Pot calling kettle? I think it's the other way around.

GAFer -- "Game from ND is going to be superior to everything out because it's always been that way."

Me -- "No.. IMO it hasn't always been that way.. Look at Crysis 1 using Crytek engine.. Nothing has been even close to that tech in years.. "

GAFer -- "How dare you speak out about ND not being the superior company to any company out there! You must be an idiot!"
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Has anyone said that in this thread? Or anything close to it? Honestly now.
 
Shin-Ra said:
No shit. I never said that.

I'm just saying they excel in specific areas, more than enough to stand out.

Their layered animation system for Drake's Fortune allowed varied character animation that was probably better than anything on PC at the time.
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Yep. Very nice animation system. Now -- currently -- there are other animation systems out that are par or better.

To assume that ND will make something even better than their competitors each time they iterate on a new game is assuming too much imo. Especially at a time where PS4/X1 have PC-friendly hardware to develop on.

ND may have superior technology in some areas of graphics.. but that doesn't mean a still from the game (which doesn't give any hints about the tech) trumps the graphic technology of other games by sheer virtue that it's a ND screenshot. That's the impression that I get.
 
VFX_Veteran said:
I'm saying there are other studios that have pushed graphical technology engines further than ND. COMPANIES.. not games. We can discuss facts with tech but I think it would be too tiring and I respect your opinion.. but please don't be snide about mine.
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Well, that´s not Naughty Dog´s craft. They make games, and games that look remarkably better than most games if not all. That is what was being discussed.

Uncharted 4 has the real possibility of being the best looking GAME of the year it is release, based on what? Naughty Dog usually excells in the graphical department above all other games released on similar hardware (and most PC games that don´t have the budget or need to push their hardware).
 
VFX_Veteran said:
Yep. Very nice animation system. Now -- currently -- there are other animation systems out that are par or better.

To assume that ND will make something even better than their competitors each time they iterate on a new game is assuming too much imo.

ND may have superior technology in some areas of graphics.. but that doesn't mean a still from the game (which doesn't give any hints about the tech) trumps the graphic technology of other games by sheer virtue that it's a ND screenshot. That's the impression that I get.
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The debate wasn't whether ND could make something better than their competitors, it was whether ND could full-fill the 1080p/60fps promise and maintain the standard of graphics we've seen in this thread and the earlier trailer. You claimed they couldn't and people are pointing out that if anyone can ND can. That is NOT suggesting other developers can't reach that standard, but then again if we assume that (and you are indirectly stating they can) then your first claim is dis-proven by your second. Or are you saying: ND will not be able to achieve this and neither will any other developer? That's a bold claim only 1 year into a 10 year cycle.
 
Shadow_FFVI said:
Well, that´s not Naughty Dog´s craft. They make games, and games that look remarkably better than most games if not all. That is what was being discussed.

Uncharted 4 has the real possibility of being the best looking GAME of the year it is release, based on what? Naughty Dog usually excells in the graphical department above all other games released on similar hardware (and most PC games that don´t have the budget or need to push their hardware).
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I just disagree.
 
Shadow_FFVI said:
Well, that´s not Naughty Dog´s craft. They make games, and games that look remarkably better than most games if not all. That is what was being discussed.

Uncharted 4 has the real possibility of being the best looking GAME of the year it is release, based on what? Naughty Dog usually excells in the graphical department above all other games released on similar hardware (and most PC games that don´t have the budget or need to push their hardware).
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ND don't make and sell engines, they make great games using an awesome engine. Companies that do make and sell engines relying on pure graphical prowesses are companies that usually ship ver bad games.uisng their own engine they brag about.
 
GribbleGrunger said:
The debate wasn't whether ND could make something better than their competitors, it was whether ND could full-fill the 1080p/60fps promise and maintain the standard of graphics we've seen in this thread and the earlier trailer. You claimed they couldn't and people are pointing out that if anyone can ND can. That is NOT suggesting other developers can't reach that standard, but then again if we assume that (and you are indirectly stating they can) then your first claim is dis-proven by your second. Or are you saying: ND will not be able to achieve this and neither will any other developer?
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YES. That is what I'm saying...

Tech costs cycles.. period. That's a known fact. You can't implement a new volume lighting algorithm or physically based shading and get it for free.
 
VFX_Veteran said:
The quotes were there to give "impressions" of the GAFers here.. not to be taken word for word. You're smart.. I'm sure you can see what I'm trying to get at. Go look at the beginning comments.
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Naughty Dog has (in many people's minds, including myself) created some of the best looking games on a console during the last generation, arguably the best whether artistically or technically. It's fine if you don't think they look the best, because games like God of War 3 and Killzone are surely right next to it in my opinion, but it's really dumb to act like their games are just average visually compared to other console developers.

Just look at Uncharted 3, or Uncharted 2 when it came out in 2009. Was there anything that looked anywhere close to it on a technical level on consoles up to that point? I think a person would be hard pressed to say otherwise. No one should be bringing PCs into the mix as there could be any form of hardware in there. So, what's there to talk about?
 
VFX_Veteran said:
YES. That is what I'm saying...

Tech costs cycles.. period. That's a known fact. You can't implement a new volume lighting algorithm or physically based shading and get it for free.
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Haven't we seen this proven wrong in every single generation? Last generation games of ALL platforms looked much more advanced than the first generation on the same platform. You seem to be predicting the future, not assessing the possibility of ND meeting that quality.

Doubt it by all means but don't try to prove it is not possible.
 
At the very least, it's difficult to see how ND could bring more tech than, e.g., RAD with The Order, given that RAD will only be pushing a new 1920x800p frame every 33 ms, while ND will presumably be pushing a full 1920x1080p frame every 16 ms.

It's a zero-sum game and quite a lot is going to have to give if ND is going to be pushing that many more pixels in half the time.
 
Honestly for a game like Uncharted which is not as heavy on gameplay as The Last of Us, I can fully expect this game to look like the E3 trailer running at 1080p/60fps.
 
Its amazing, his last 20+ posts across multiple threads has been nothing but shitting on Naughty Dog, Evan Wells must've killed his dog.
 
Leb said:
At the very least, it's difficult to see how ND could bring more tech than, e.g., RAD with The Order, given that RAD will only be pushing a new 1920x800p frame every 33 ms, while ND will presumably be pushing a full 1920x1080p frame every 16 ms.

It's a zero-sum game and quite a lot is going to have to give if ND is going to be pushing that many more pixels in half the time.
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Yeah. I would be surprised if ND can push visuals that look better than the order at 1080p and 60 fps. Then again who knows?

brickarts295 said:
Honestly for a game like Uncharted which is not as heavy on gameplay as The Last of Us, I can fully expect this game to look like the E3 trailer running at 1080p/60fps.
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What do you mean heavy gameplay?
 
VFX_Veteran said:
YES. That is what I'm saying...

Tech costs cycles.. period. That's a known fact. You can't implement a new volume lighting algorithm or physically based shading and get it for free.
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Heavily utilizing GPGPU and HSA features, both things I think only devs working on exclusives will delve deep into, will allow them to utilize each cycle to the fullest. They've already stated a couple times that lessons they learned from dealing with the PS3 SPUs are going into those very things.
 
Leb said:
At the very least, it's difficult to see how ND could bring more tech than, e.g., RAD with The Order, given that RAD will only be pushing a new 1920x800p frame every 33 ms, while ND will presumably be pushing a full 1920x1080p frame every 16 ms.

It's a zero-sum game and quite a lot is going to have to give if ND is going to be pushing that many more pixels in half the time.
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Thank you! Why is it that he gets it while the lot of you don't?
 
RoboPlato said:
Heavily utilizing GPGPU and HSA features, both things I think only devs working on exclusives will delve deep into, will allow them to utilize each cycle to the fullest. They've already stated a couple times that lessons they learned from dealing with the PS3 SPUs are going into those very things.
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You can't assume that. KZ:ShadowFall was exclusive.. so was Ryse.. and they both couldn't achieve 60fps in their SP campaigns. Both clearly having better tech than TLOU:Remastered.
 
VFX_Veteran said:
Anyway.. UC4 will use TLOU graphics engine (which is dated btw) so I don't expect mind-boggling technology. ND has always had talented artists though -- able to make low-end tech look really good. But that doesn't mean they are the leaders in graphics technology.
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You do know that even if they use the 'same engine' they can change how the whole rendering part of it works, right?
There is a lot more than just rendering/graphics to the engines these days.
 
VFX_Veteran said:
YES. That is what I'm saying...

Tech costs cycles.. period. That's a known fact. You can't implement a new volume lighting algorithm or physically based shading and get it for free.
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Lol, Epic ditched GI but Lionhead created their own version of GI and Epic got the code from them and added it for free to UE4 within less than a month. Now, there a skilled non dev UE4 user who is developing a better version of the GI and will provide it for free in teh same engine for all users. If normal people can pull such things, why do you think that ND veterans aren't able to do that? Seriously !
 
Leb said:
At the very least, it's difficult to see how ND could bring more tech than, e.g., RAD with The Order, given that RAD will only be pushing a new 1920x800p frame every 33 ms, while ND will presumably be pushing a full 1920x1080p frame every 16 ms.

It's a zero-sum game and quite a lot is going to have to give if ND is going to be pushing that many more pixels in half the time.
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While The Order looks fantastic, it is RAD's first game on hardware more powerful than the PSP. ND's been pushing tech on Sony platforms for many years and they have more resources and talent and their disposal now than ever before.

VFX_Veteran said:
You can't assume that. KZ:ShadowFall was exclusive.. so was Ryse.. and they both couldn't achieve 60fps in their SP campaigns. Both clearly having better tech than TLOU:Remastered.
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Those were launch titles. This is a game likely releasing two years later.
 
brickarts295 said:
Honestly for a game like Uncharted which is not as heavy on gameplay as The Last of Us, I can fully expect this game to look like the E3 trailer running at 1080p/60fps.
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..... What...?

This is the very first time I've read that "Uncharted games are not gameplay-heavy".
 
BigBoss said:
Its amazing, his last 20+ posts across multiple threads has been nothing but shitting on Naughty Dog, Evan Wells must've killed his dog.
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No.. I have not shitted on ND.. I've defended the shitting on comments against other companies by trying to neutralize the prejudice against other studios not being able to achieve what you THINK only ND can do.
 
Ishida said:
..... What...?

This is the very first time I've read that "Uncharted games are not gameplay-heavy".
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I mean more in a way that gameplay in Uncharted is not as complicated as The Last of Us.
[Edit] Which would make it easier for ND pull off both great graphics and great framerate.
 
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